GP-Wiz49 Software finally ready (link & screenshot)

[RandyT]

Following up on the Linux support question, Randy can you provide the lowlevel API (IOCTL commands I'm assuming) documentation to how the app works so that FE authors wanting a built in solution, or other platform users can implement this as well?

James,

If you know anyone interested in doing this, they should contact me directly and outline their plans.  I'll help in any way I can.

RandyT

[dema]

so it's basically adding a function for the hard core users as opposed to the real target for this product

Not true, he added the 16way which was based of one person's opinion.

I don't think the customizeable layout a bad request, I just think the product needs some time to mature first. That may be a great addition to future generations of the product, but he should be able to put out the product now and reap the rewards of such a novel idea for the community. If he were to consider every idea for the product before he even has time to sell it an make his costs back and continue to operate his company, he'd be working on a never-ending product, and would have a number of unhappy customers who were trading product back for newer features.

[SirPoonga]

I don't think the customizeable layout a bad request, I just think the product needs some time to mature first. That may be a great addition to future generations of the product, but he should be able to put out the product now and reap the rewards of such a novel idea for the community. If he were to consider every idea for the product before he even has time to sell it an make his costs back and continue to operate his company, he'd be working on a never-ending product, and would have a number of unhappy customers who were trading product back for newer features.

Exactly. The whole reasom I am waiting for the right time to buy one.

I know he has to limit features per version.  Every product is that way.  You can only do so much in time. 

Plus products never end.  People find new uses for stuff all the time

Anyway, end of discussion.  Obvuiously it isn't going to happen no matter how hard anyone tries.  Though I will bring it up when I get one.  I have ideas for use of such a feature...

Actually, new but related idea.  *IF* one could customize mapping, would it be possible to map a keycode to a particular 49way grid through this interface?  If this ever happens I have a frontend idea....

[Tiger-Heli]

Unless you use the product, you can't possibly know what is needed or even beneficial.  So far, I haven't received one complaint from users, in fact all of them are about as tickled as can be with the performance of the unit.

Okay, let me chime in on a few things here.  I also said that I thought it would be good to add a couple of "user-defined" modes, at least as an expansion option to the product.  I thought this would require an additional software package to make, define, and save the modes.  Whether he adds it or not is RandyT's call.  I agree that it probably is nothing I would use (other than just to mess with b/c I could), if I owned the product.

But here's an example of one case where owning the product makes a difference.  Randy asked me if I had tried the software in command-line mode since that was something I requested in the 15-page thread.  I hadn't b/c I didn't think it would work or I would see anything without a GP-Wiz49 connected.  Then I thought "He asked if I have tried it, so it must do something.  Maybe it splashes up that big screen with all the modes shown and the chosen one highlighted?"  I could see some people thinking that was cool and others hating it.  I thought I would need to recommend a "Stealth" flag so you don't see that.

Then I tried it.  A little icon pops up to tell you what mode the stick is in.  I kinda like it and if I had time would add it even without the GP-Wiz49, b/c it's a handy reference if a game is unfamiliar.

But I would never have known if I didn't test it out myself.

I guess I don't understand how some people can be that way, lock out ideas completely and never look at them again.  It's how you learn by trying out new things.

You might keep in mind that when the product was released, RandyT was unable to program it through the USB port.  This was added entirely as a result of user requests.  So it's not that he's ignoring his customers, just choosing which requests to honor.

If he were to consider every idea for the product before he even has time to sell it an make his costs back and continue to operate his company, he'd be working on a never-ending product. . .

That would be almost like building an arcade cabinet, then . . . oh, wait . . .

[SirPoonga]

You might keep in mind that when the product was released, RandyT was unable to program it through the USB port.

[monkeybomb]

I ordered mine last night because I think it is at a point where it's okay.  I figured that the first change is all we will see for a while and I am happy with what the current offering is.  I also checked out the software before I made my order (already shipped I might add)
I also guessed that people will create software to work with the current firmware if anything new happens. 

[markrvp]

I have two good reasons for not getting it right now.  The product isn't stable enough, there's been firmware upgrade, new features, etc.  I knew that was going to happen as it seemed like the product was rushed to market without much testing, especially with the responses given in the 15 page thread.  It's like buying a new car, try and avoid the first year/version as it has bugs.  So as a consumer I am going to wait for the actiont o settle down.

I don't think Randy is ignoring requests, but as you pointed out, if he doesn't stop changing it every day, then more people who are waiting for the final product will delay buying one.  I think at this point it is doing what Randy intended it to do, so it is "finished."  Think of the first 15 page thread as R&D and this thread as support for a finished product.

[SirPoonga]

I ordered mine last night because I think it is at a point where it's okay.

[Todd H]

Hey Randy.

Any chance of getting a couple of 49-ways and a GP-Wiz49 to Kevin over at Retroblast for an in-depth review?   

[specfire]

Everyone says that 16-way isn't any good for 720, however, I am looking forward to using it with my Intellivision emulator, Nostalgia <http://www.shiny-technologies.com/nostalgia.php>, so even though I don't have any of this gear yet, I am interested in 16-way operation.  (Intellivision's had 16-way disc controllers with a 12 digit keypad and 2 "action buttons")

Specfire

[monkeybomb]

Hey Randy.

Any chance of getting a couple of 49-ways and a GP-Wiz49 to Kevin over at Retroblast for an in-depth review?   

Why so that He can say that someday it might be a contender?  Unless of course Randy wrote slikstik on the box 

[Tiger-Heli]

Why so that He can say that someday it might be a contender?  Unless of course Randy wrote slikstik on the box 

I was looking for the proper way to say that!!!!  Thanks!!!

[IntruderAlert]

so cruel..

but i think it's a good idea too
I like kevin's reviews 

[Tiger-Heli]

Why so that He can say that someday it might be a contender?  Unless of course Randy wrote slikstik on the box 

I was looking for the proper way to say that!!!!  Thanks!!!

If you want to know why it probably won't happen, refer to this:

http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/rebuttal.htm

[IntruderAlert]

can you summarize that because I tried reading it and it just makes my head hurt

I gathered that Kevin's review was less than perfect.
Did he dis' the KeyWiz badly or just leave out some things he should have mentioned?

[Tiger-Heli]

can you summarize that because I tried reading it and it just makes my head hurt
I gathered that Kevin's review was less than perfect.
Did he dis' the KeyWiz badly or just leave out some things he should have mentioned?

Monkeybomb NAILED it with the "might be a contender" comment.  He didn't say it sucked, but he left out a LOT that should have been mentioned, added faults that weren't faults, etc.

Like I said at the start of the page, I basically reprinted the entire review, b/c there was that little to it that didn't need revising.

[monkeybomb]

It seemed to me like he went after it.  If I remeber right he made comparisons that weren't even true.  He showed a chart that included features on the IPAC that weren't available at the price he quoted.  That to me is just blatant.

I actualy like Kevin's reviews and I check his site daily.  It is a great rescource for all of us.  He just blew it on that review pretty badly.

[IntruderAlert]

Did Kevin ever reply at all?

Man.. this stinks..
You guys just ruined my opinion of RetroBlast!

[Tiger-Heli]

Did Kevin ever reply at all?

Not that I'm aware of.

[monkeybomb]

Did Kevin ever reply at all?

Man.. this stinks..
You guys just ruined my opinion of RetroBlast!

Don't let it ruin retroblast for you, just use it for what it is.  He is just a guy with some opinions, not the all knowing harware god.  He doesn't claim to be more than that.  There are facts in his reviews just use the grain of salt you use with movie, restaurant and game reviewers.  I think I know where his bias is and I don't expect complete objectivity from any reviewer.  It's just unrealistic. 

After Tiger-Heli wrote his response Kevin did provide a link to it on his front page.  What I was really disapointed with was that he never fixed the pricepoint on the comparison.  It was simply incorret and should have been changed.

[Tiger-Heli]

After Tiger-Heli wrote his response Kevin did provide a link to it on his front page.

I missed that, but I rarely go to the front page.  But yeah, it's a decent site, but Kevin muffed that one, badly.

[RandyT]

I just want to make sure something is understood here (it seems to be by most, but it appears there may be a few stragglers)

The GP-Wiz49, as it was originally released, was bug-free and fully tested.  It did exactly what it was designed to do, even if some had different opinions of what it should do.

Don't confuse a manufacturer upgrading a product and writing a new application resulting in increased functionality with no additional increase in price with "unstable or inadequately tested " firmware.  The two are worlds apart.

Is the product better for the added capabilities?  Of course.  Was it good the first time through?  Definitely.  In fact, unless you are running Windows or wanted to use a rotary switch, there is currently no difference in functionality.  Hopefully someone from the Linux or Mac camp will join the cause and we can get that taken care of because I'm not the guy for either of those two platforms.

BTW, I'm finding that unless a frontend is going to do it for you, the button combos are much easier/quicker to execute for the changeover, at least if you only need to do it for one stick.
Just something to keep in mind if the constant jumping between the app and your front end starts to make you weary while you wait for the FE's to catch up.

RandyT

[whammoed]

I Hopefully someone from the Linux or Mac camp will join the cause and we can get that taken care of because I'm not the guy for either of those two platforms.


RandyT

Ahhh, theres my answer 
I hope so too.  I don't put anything on my games that require user intervention before playing a game.  I will probably pick one up anyway next time I need something from ya....will be cool just to play around with.     I won't be able to pass it up at that price.

[MrSaLTy]

Randy, I don't remember anyone saying that the GPWIZ49 was not 'up to snuff' in anyway.... I for one, really appreciate the added functionality with the new firmware.

[Tiger-Heli]

Randy, I don't remember anyone saying that the GPWIZ49 was not 'up to snuff' in anyway....

I believe RandyT's comment is based on SirPoonga's earlier comment, quoted below.  I also agree with Randy, for the most part, more to come. . .

I have two good reasons for not getting it right now.  The product isn't stable enough, there's been firmware upgrade, new features, etc.  I knew that was going to happen as it seemed like the product was rushed to market without much testing, especially with the responses given in the 15 page thread.  It's like buying a new car, try and avoid the first year/version as it has bugs.  So as a consumer I am going to wait for the actiont o settle down.  The second is I don't have a 49way of my own yet...

[Tiger-Heli]

I just want to make sure something is understood here (it seems to be by most, but it appears there may be a few stragglers)

The GP-Wiz49, as it was originally released, was bug-free and fully tested.  It did exactly what it was designed to do, even if some had different opinions of what it should do.

Don't confuse a manufacturer upgrading a product and writing a new application resulting in increased functionality with no additional increase in price with "unstable or inadequately tested " firmware.  The two are worlds apart.

Understood by me, and I fully agree.

In fact, unless you are running Windows . . .

And USB doesn't work under DOS, so the above is probably at least 85% of your target market.

BTW, I'm finding that unless a frontend is going to do it for you, the button combos are much easier/quicker to execute for the changeover, at least if you only need to do it for one stick.

Randy, do you see any funky way to wire the second board up so it is "slaved" to the first board, so executing the button combos for board one will change both sticks?  (I'm guessing not by the language of your post.

Just something to keep in mind if the constant jumping between the app and your front end starts to make you weary while you wait for the FE's to catch up.

I have some hints on how to make it work with the current FE's at the end of the the 15-page thread, starting with this message

[dabone]

And USB doesn't work under DOS, so the above is probably at least 85% of your target market.

So you are saying that 85% of people here use a non windows/linux system.

Thats why mamewah and the like are so unpopular because they only support windows.


The only reason to run dos now is for smaller stripped down cabs, I've got one for vertical games only running advmame .92 with advmenu.

But my other 2 mame cabs run xp.

USB devices are here to stay, and dos is dying at a good pace, i.e. no more offical dos mame anymore.

Later,
dabone

[Tiger-Heli]

And USB doesn't work under DOS, so the above is probably at least 85% of your target market.

So you are saying that 85% of people here use a non windows/linux system.
Thats why mamewah and the like are so unpopular because they only support windows.
The only reason to run dos now is for smaller stripped down cabs, I've got one for vertical games only running advmame .92 with advmenu.
But my other 2 mame cabs run xp.
USB devices are here to stay, and dos is dying at a good pace, i.e. no more offical dos mame anymore.

Read my post again.  The GP-Wiz49 won't work with DOS (USB device) so it's target market doesn't include DOS users.  I was saying that Windows-users were 85 percent of the target market.  If I had to guess, I would say that about 12% of the remaining use Linux and about 3% Mac.

[dabone]

Whoops, misread that..

Sorry.


later,
dabone

[JoeB]

Unless you use the product, you can't possibly know what is needed or even beneficial.  So far, I haven't received one complaint from users, in fact all of them are about as tickled as can be with the performance of the unit.

You're right Randy.. Currently I'm not a user, but I'm seriously considering becoming one (once I find cheap 49-way joysticks).

But just because I'm not a user, doesn't mean that I'm not looking out for the rest of the people.

For example, just 2 days ago, I emailed Kevin Steele asking him to do a review of your product.  I'm sure your product is that great, and a positive review from Kevin can only do good things for your business.

Future customers are as important as past ones. 

[MrSaLTy]

Randy, I am experiencing the same weirdness that Troz was having.... If I have just the 1st GPWIZ49 plugged in, it will not change modes with the software.  It goes through and says its changing modes... but after I test it, I find it is still in the same mode.  BUT.... If I have both #1 and #2 attached.... When I switch modes... it works.  I dont have a 2nd joy hooked to the wiz on 2 yet so I have not been able to see if it is actually changing modes on 2 but I will move it over later and test it out.  Got any ideas?  I do plan on having both hooked up at the same time eventually so if its working that way Its probably ok but I think this may cause issues for some.  Ill try it with just #2 later and see if it works with 2 alone... maybe its just an issue with #1

Ill let you know how it goes.

[RandyT]

Please, do me a favor and take support issues to email (not PM)

It's not easy to keep track of who, what and why when you are doing it in a public forum.

Are you upgrading from a previous firmware revision or a new install?  It's possible Windows, thinks that the capabilities of the new device are the same as the previous one which couldn't be "spoken to", and it might need to be "refreshed" on the system.  98SE doesn't seem to exhibit this, but I have seen 2K/XP do it on occasion.

Once the device is able to be written to, Windows should be OK with it from that point on.  You might want to test device #1 by itself again.  Sounds as though plugging in the second unit may have caused Windows to refresh the USB parameters that it stores, bringing it up to date with the new device #1.

BTW, I am currently using only 1 unit and the software is working fine.  All combinations were tested, and no issues were found.

RandyT

[RandyT]

...I am currently using only 1 unit and the software is working fine.  All combinations were tested, and no issues were found.

Apparently there was one combination I missed, and that was multiple HID devices on a 2K/XP system.  This had some difficulties depending on the order of the enumeration of the GP-Wiz49's and the other HID devices.  This did not seem to affect 98SE/ME systems.  2K/XP systems were also fine if no other HID devices were present outside of the GP-Wiz49's.

The software has been updated to account for this, so everyone please grab a new copy by clicking on the screenshot at the beginning of the thread or by clicking here.

Big thanks to markrvp and MrSaLTy for testing out the changes and providing info about their setups.

RandyT

[MrSaLTy]

And thank you Randy for the prompt response and fix. 

[markrvp]

Ditto.  Customer support on this product is above and beyond what you should expect.

Thank you very much, Randy.

[MrSaLTy]

Anyone that is interested in auto mode switching with mamewah can look to see how I did it here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35927.0.html

Its brute force but it works until mamewah can parse controls.ini

[MiKman]

Wow I just saw this!  I cannpt believe you can sell something so versitile so cheap!  Can anyone comment on how these things work in 2 way, 4 way , diagonal mode?  I can't see why anyone would bother with anything else.  Just two 49ways and a couple of these and you cover every joystick!  WOW!  great product, mucho kudos if it works well under all the other modes besides 49way...

[Tiger-Heli]

Wow I just saw this!  I cannpt believe you can sell something so versitile so cheap!  Can anyone comment on how these things work in 2 way, 4 way , diagonal mode?

See the original 15-page introductory thread, but I haven't heard ANYONE who has used them complain about them.  Toonces posted (in a different thread) that they worked better in Donkey Kong than the T-Stick Plus which is a true restricted 4-way if that gives you any idea.

[Lilwolf]

The only bad thing... and not really a bad thing at all... Is the 16 way (or whatever) that was designed to give a solution for 720 doesn't work that well.  But the raw settings works pretty well with 720 (compared to any other non-original setting).

So if you are looking for a good all around solution this is probably the best bet. 

What I haven't heard anyone talk about is how good it works in fighters for special moves..  But I'm assuming people would have already started complaining if that was an issue.

Oh yeah... and look at another thread... soon you will be able to convert it to a 12 way joystick for Ikari warriors ect...  Talk about an all around great solution!

[RandyT]

The only bad thing... and not really a bad thing at all... Is the 16 way (or whatever) that was designed to give a solution for 720 doesn't work that well.

Please, let's be clear on the 16-way mode.  It was not "designed as a solution for 720."

 A 16-way mode was requested by someone that was a big help to the project from day 1 and it was included.  There's really only one way that a 16-way can be implemented on these sticks (regardless of what some choose to believe about how many ways there are to do things in a grander philosophical sense) and it was done.  That's all that went into that mode of operation and it was left in because it may be an option someone finds valuable for something along the way. It is not something one should focus on as being anything close to a primary feature of the device.

Think of it as the microphone jack on your boombox.  You'll probably never use it, but it's not making your CD's sound worse by being there.

RandyT