New Product: 49-Way USB Interface - The GP-Wiz49 with DRS Technology (TM)

[MajorLag]

But hopefully at the end, it will be all things to all people and I can move onto the next project...

A one size fits all lightgun solution perhaps? (I can dream can't I?)

[dabone]

So, Randy, Can I order my 2 boards now?



Later,
dabone

[RandyT]

So, Randy, Can I order my 2 boards now?

Sorry, my stamina ran out, and real-life (tm) kicked in yesterday.

Things are looking good, but I need to make sure there are no problems once the code hits the chip.  All testing of the new code has been through the development system, and while there shouldn't be any difference, you just never know.

I also need to tweak one small thing related to the re-assignment of buttons in the "Rotary Switch" mode.  Not sure if I mentioned this, but I am implementing the re-mapping of buttons for this mode as was suggested.  Since the first 8 buttons are now dedicated solely to switching (in "Rotary Switch" mode only), buttons 9 through 23 will become 1 through 15.

I will announce when it's ready...hopefully later today.

RandyT

[Flinkly]

but we also have the ability to set mode in software, right? (so why even worry about rotary anymore?)

[RandyT]

but we also have the ability to set mode in software, right? (so why even worry about rotary anymore?)

Yes, but I am only supporting software switching through Windows (at least at the moment.)  USB can be used on a number of operating systems.

Also, believe it or not, some may want to switch manually if their applications show it to be easier to do it outsde of software.  Believe me, my job would have been MUCH easier if I dropped that mode, but I made promises and I keep them where I can 

RandyT

[SirPoonga]

Randy said he'd look at that in a future version and I'm good with that. For people who haven't already bought the product

[IntruderAlert]

Have you guys ever seen this before?

It's supposed to be a 49 way with rotary.

[armax]

intruder, where did you see that joystick at?

[Toonces]

Randy said he'd look at that in a future version and I'm good with that. For people who haven't already bought the product  to come along and say that they wouldn't do it because the parallel port is dying...blah blah blah is rediculous. He should support all versions of the product with the same type of features if it's possible and non-cost prohibitive. In this one particular case it should be. The materials are cheap to get and the programming source is available free. It does cost some of his time though to add a feature to a program he is already writing.

Is that such an unreasonable request?

No, it isn't unreasonable.  I was just expressing my opinion that it isn't a smart decision.  It may be cheap but what's it worth when it can't be used.

The last three new computers I have seen do NOT have parallel port.  They have serial but not parallel port.  Those computers were my new one (an athlon 64), my new work computer (a Dell pentium 4), and a friends new Duron 1.8Ghz.

Has PCs get cheaper, especially those Duron 1.8Ghz that can be less than $200, you are going to see less and less parallel ports in arcade cabients.

Why should Randy stick with the past when the future is so obvious?  Why not think ahead?  Look at how many parallel port devices are being created today.... why even think about it then.  The hardware is being phased out.  It's no different then these arcade hardware manufacturers (Randy, Andy, etc..) not supporting DOS.  You just don't see it today so why take a step backwards to support a technology that is being phased out, which usually means some limitations have to be done so it will work the same in the future when a change has to be made.

You know, basically, I don't disagree with you. The only reason I do think Randy should add it to this particular app is because he put the product out there and people purchased it knowing that this was one of the only options for computer based switching. Early on, Randy said that someone would make a circuit or figure out how to accomplish switching of the modes via the computer. He was right, I didn't do anything unique and was probably not even the first to do it with the GP-Wiz49. He's now in a redesign of the firmware to make USB the "Supported" switching method (besides using the buttons or a rotary switch). If the parallel support were actually difficult I could see not adding it but with a freely available DLL that works on all Windows versions from 9X to XP, it should be fairly simple to add.

Now it may be my fault that I didn't wait months after it was released to buy, but if I and others who bought all waited, Randy probably wouldn't be adding the USB switching support now or may not even continue the product. Why carry it if it won't sell? I think from the very moment the product was announced, many people saw the opportunity and the possibilities that mode switching could be accomplished using the computer based on the information from your controls.ini project. Personally, I think once his USB switchable version of the GP-Wiz49 is available and shipping, he will see a pretty good increase in sales and you will see an increase in participation for adding new games to controls.ini.

I'm not asking him to support the past technology for the sake of using older technology but to support those people, like myself, who bought his product early on. He is already writing the app and adding "Unofficial" support for the parallel port mode goes a long way to proving that the decision they made was a good one because, like all of his products, he does his best to support them well.

[IntruderAlert]

intruder, where did you see that joystick at?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=6170164386&rd=1

[Kremmit]

Have you guys ever seen this before?

It's supposed to be a 49 way with rotary.

That's just a Wico mechanical rotary.  No 49-way action.  Auction mislabeled.

[Toonces]

Have you guys ever seen this before?

It's supposed to be a 49 way with rotary.

A 49 way with leaf switches? it looks a lot like the joystick on this Heavy Barrel.

[IntruderAlert]

It would be so cool if it was true...

Oh well.. I just bought 4 used 49 ways so I guess me and Randy will be doing business soon

[RandyT]

Ok....

It's live now folks.  The new firmware is ready and it works as expected.  The new GPWiz-49 version is shown at the store and ready to be ordered.  Sorry it took so long.


There are now three modes of operation:

Software Mode - Manual and command line operation - Button combo switching is locked out when in this mode.  Switching is accomplished via the USB connection and Windows compatible software.  Automatically detects and programs up to four GP-Wiz49 interface boards.  Has the ability to select Williams or Happ modes "on the fly" as well.

Rotary Switch/Jumper mode - Modes can be selected via a rotary switch.  Modes can also be permanantly jumpered if desired.  This mode disables the shifted buttons, uses the first 8 inputs exclusively for switching, and normalizes the number of the remaining 15 buttons to 1 through 15 as expected.

Classic Mode - The original manual switching method.  Holding the Joymode button (also used for shift) and pressing any of the 8 dual-purpose buttons changes the joystick mode.

Hopefully I didn't forget anything that was requested (at least the stuff that was reasonable to add)


The software is done except for the command line parsing.  No surprises there, just a little elbow grease required.  It'll be ready by time the boards arrive in your mailboxes. 

Thanks again for your patience.
RandyT

[IntruderAlert]

Should I buy ECO or MAX?
What's the difference?
Just the mounts?

[MrSaLTy]

Randy.... What should we do if we already got the first version (MAX) and we want to get the new firmware?  Do you have a plan of attack for us yet?  Thank you and I will sit down and wait for my answer. 

[RandyT]

Randy.... What should we do if we already got the first version (MAX) and we want to get the new firmware?  Do you have a plan of attack for us yet?  Thank you and I will sit down and wait for my answer. 

Individuals that want the new version will need to email me.  I'll deal with this on an individual basis, but users that purchased in the month of April will be updated at no charge if they contact me with the desire to do so.

There will be a reasonable charge for others, with the exception of solder Eco's.  Unfortunately, there is no update path for these.

RandyT

[IntruderAlert]

so for this reason should i buy the MAX?
or do you forsee any additional changes that would render the ECO obsolete?

[RandyT]

so for this reason should i buy the MAX?
or do you forsee any additional changes that would render the ECO obsolete?

At this point, it's pretty unlikely.

RandyT

[Kremmit]

so for this reason should i buy the MAX?
or do you forsee any additional changes that would render the ECO obsolete?

You want the MAX because the screw terminals are WAY less work, in my opinion.  True, it's $14 more than the solder version, and $11 more than the IDE header version, but how much is your time worth?  How much time will you spend soldering, or hacking a cable?  Those screw terminals are EASY.  And when you want to un-hook it and re-wire it later on, they'll be EASY AGAIN. 

[specfire]

Hello, I'm a noob here to the forum, however, I have been lurking this site and several other emu sites for years (shy type).  I've been playing MAME since v.36.  I did dabble with bezel creation when Aaron first introduced the new Artwork format and a few of the Williams and Atari bezels on the mame.net site are still mine (not very good though as I was teaching myself Photoshop).  Anyway, onto my questions.  This new product is the motivation I need to build a cabinet (finally!)

1. I don't understand how 49 Raw is viewed by the computer.  Is it as a low resolution analogue controller or are all 49 positions being discretely reported some how?

2. Crazy question here but, has anyone actually tried to play Atari Star Wars with a 49-way stick in 49 Raw DRS mode and how playable is it?

3. On RandyT's site, he lists the Midway version of the 49 way stick for sale.  Can someone describe all of the differences between the Midway and the Happ sticks? 

4.  Randy, any chance that you could make a single board that would support two 49 way sticks?

5.  I am interested in hacking in a fire button into the handle of a 49 way but don't really want the bulk of the Tron stick that 1UP is creating (even though that looks pretty cool!)  I think that the Happ top fire joystick design is awkward at best.  I am envisioning a microswitch built into the handle so I only have to thread wires down a hollow shaft.  Any ideas on how to go about this?

Thanks,

Specfire

[paigeoliver]

I am only going to get into one part here.

I have played Star Wars with a 49 way, it sucks, it sucks really bad.

[Tiger-Heli]

<edit> Modified the Midway/Happ part.

1. I don't understand how 49 Raw is viewed by the computer.  Is it as a low resolution analogue controller or are all 49 positions being discretely reported some how?

I might be wrong here, but I don't think MAME supports the 49-way sticks directly.  49-Raw is a low-res Analog controller, but it is what you would use for the true 49-way games (Sinistar, Arch Rivals, etc.)  (Did I screw this up, Randy?)

3. On RandyT's site, he lists the Midway version of the 49 way stick for sale.  Can someone describe all of the differences between the Midway and the Happ sticks? 

Midway=Happ  Happ sells Midway's design under license.  RandyT is usually a little cheaper, but Happ has them on sale this month.  RandyT is actually selling the Happ version AFAIK, might want to fix the webstore, Randy.  The Midway and Happ function the same, but have slightly different dimensions.

Midway/Happ <> Williams - The Williams stick had a centering spider to add extra resistance in Sinistar (1Up is making a Happ repro).  Also, basically I think the Williams read the center position as 0 and the Happ read it as 1, so the interface has to work differently (The GP-Wiz49 supports either one).  Finally, I think the Happ has a slightly "tighter" feel, without having a better way to explain it.

4.  Randy, any chance that you could make a single board that would support two 49 way sticks?

Doubtful - Was asked earlier in the thread.

5.  I am envisioning a microswitch built into the handle so I only have to thread wires down a hollow shaft.  Any ideas on how to go about this?

Something like this, maybe? http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,22827.0.html (Not sure if they work with the 49-way, and RayB sold out of them, but I think he documents what he did, or you might PM him about them.

[Tiger-Heli]

I want to add some things to clarify, but please correct me if I get it wrong.

It's live now folks.  The new firmware is ready and it works as expected.  The new GPWiz-49 version is shown at the store and ready to be ordered.  Sorry it took so long.

Linky here

Software Mode - Manual and command line operation - Button combo switching is locked out when in this mode.  Switching is accomplished via the USB connection and Windows compatible software.  Automatically detects and programs up to four GP-Wiz49 interface boards.  Has the ability to select Williams or Happ modes "on the fly" as well.

ASSuME manual means through the GUI.

From the description, it looks like you still get all the buttons with software switching.  Is this correct?  I was expecting it to drop to 15.  Great job Randy, either way!

Classic Mode - The original manual switching method.  Holding the Joymode button (also used for shift) and pressing any of the 8 dual-purpose buttons changes the joystick mode.

ASSuME classic mode means Toonces software works with the new boards as well.

ASSuME you are still working on supporting the PP through the new software?

Hopefully I didn't forget anything that was requested (at least the stuff that was reasonable to add)

Looks like you got about all of it (except two sticks on the same board  ) (j/k) Great job, Randy!

[dabone]

Oh, btw Randy, the reason I've never ordered from you in the past is your refusal
to ship to a different address than the credit card statement.

To order the boards from you I'm going to use the company credit card so they will be sent to my office.


I really don't want products shipped to my house, (Where no one is at till after 7pm every night)


Any chance of you ever changing this policy?


Later,
dabone

[Tiger-Heli]

Oh, btw Randy, the reason I've never ordered from you in the past is your refusal
to ship to a different address than the credit card statement.
To order the boards from you I'm going to use the company credit card so they will be sent to my office.
I really don't want products shipped to my house, (Where no one is at till after 7pm every night)
Any chance of you ever changing this policy?
Later,
dabone

Lots of companies do this - www.newegg.com has a similar policy to prevent fraud.  What RandyT might consider, and it might work for you - NewEgg used to have a policy that you could request that the item be held at the FedEx office and then you would go pick it up there.  (Was easier for me than having the FedEx guy stop by when I wasn't home, then be re-delivering it when I tried to pick it up there, etc.)

But I'm not sure if Randy uses FedEx, or if his shipper supports this.

[quarterback]

Oh, btw Randy, the reason I've never ordered from you in the past is your refusal
to ship to a different address than the credit card statement.

To order the boards from you I'm going to use the company credit card so they will be sent to my office.

Just call your credit card company and have them add your work address as a legitimate delivery address.

[dabone]

It's a debit card on my bank account, and they only allow the 1 address.

(Sucks but thats the way it is.)


And newegg doesn't have that policy, I've ordered from them multiple times and had it shipped to my office.


Later,
dabone

[Captain_Dingo]

Randy.... What should we do if we already got the first version (MAX) and we want to get the new firmware?  Do you have a plan of attack for us yet?  Thank you and I will sit down and wait for my answer. 

Individuals that want the new version will need to email me.  I'll deal with this on an individual basis, but users that purchased in the month of April will be updated at no charge if they contact me with the desire to do so.

There will be a reasonable charge for others, with the exception of solder Eco's.  Unfortunately, there is no update path for these.

RandyT

Well hell.  I JUST got my two Ecos not all that long ago, because I can handle the wiring and figured I'd save a few bucks instead of getting screw terminals.

When you say there's no update path for the Ecos, is that just because the chip is soldered instead of socketed?  Is the upgrade path for the Max simply to get a new chip and replace the one on the board?  Can I just get the upgrade and a pair of 40-pin chip sockets and fix my Ecos like that, or is there something more different about the Max vs. the Eco?

If only they had flashable firmware...

[Lilwolf]

If your really worried about it.  You can probably sell them for just a bit below what the new ones will sell for.

Sure the new features are REALLY cool.  But there will be some people who want to save a few bucks... and don't need it to change at runtime...

But one of the disadvantages of soldered boards.   Never an easy upgrade path.

[Tiger-Heli]

Randy.... What should we do if we already got the first version (MAX) and we want to get the new firmware?  Do you have a plan of attack for us yet?  Thank you and I will sit down and wait for my answer. 

Individuals that want the new version will need to email me.  I'll deal with this on an individual basis, but users that purchased in the month of April will be updated at no charge if they contact me with the desire to do so.

There will be a reasonable charge for others, with the exception of solder Eco's.  Unfortunately, there is no update path for these.

RandyT

Well hell.  I JUST got my two Ecos not all that long ago, because I can handle the wiring and figured I'd save a few bucks instead of getting screw terminals.

When you say there's no update path for the Ecos, is that just because the chip is soldered instead of socketed?  Is the upgrade path for the Max simply to get a new chip and replace the one on the board?  Can I just get the upgrade and a pair of 40-pin chip sockets and fix my Ecos like that, or is there something more different about the Max vs. the Eco?

If only they had flashable firmware...

I recommend you contact RandyT directly.  I am ASSuMEing that there is no upgrade path for the solder ECO's b/c Randy doesn't want to risk that you messed up the board when you soldered it, and now it won't work when he upgrades it.  I would imagine if you felt up to buying (or receiving?) the replacement chip and de-soldering the existing one and soldering the replacement, that could be worked out, but I can't speak for him (well, I shouldn't, at least).

[IntruderAlert]

I am only going to get into one part here.

I have played Star Wars with a 49 way, it sucks, it sucks really bad.

tell us more..

[SirPoonga]

I am only going to get into one part here.

I have played Star Wars with a 49 way, it sucks, it sucks really bad.

tell us more..

Understandable, it'd be like playing a first person shooter witha  mouse that skips every 30 pixels.  In a game that needs fine tune adjustments it isn't going to work well.  But it makes it more playable than on an 8way.

[IntruderAlert]

So what other games are going to play badly with a 49way?

[SirPoonga]

Get a list of analog joystick games that require precise movement.

That's a "well duh" situation.  However, it does make them more playable than just using an 8way joystick.

[MrSaLTy]

Oh, btw Randy, the reason I've never ordered from you in the past is your refusal
to ship to a different address than the credit card statement.

To order the boards from you I'm going to use the company credit card so they will be sent to my office.


I really don't want products shipped to my house, (Where no one is at till after 7pm every night)


Any chance of you ever changing this policy?


Later,
dabone

This policy is done by MOST companies and if you think about it.... its really a GOOD thing.  That way if some asshat gets ahold of your credit card info he can't just order 10 plasma TV's and have it shipped to his house.

[SirPoonga]

This policy is done by MOST companies and if you think about it.... its really a GOOD thing.

[IntruderAlert]

Get a list of analog joystick games that require precise movement.

That's a "well duh" situation.  However, it does make them more playable than just using an 8way joystick.

I tried http://link.mywwwserver.com/~jstookey/arcade/sortinfo/index.php
but there's no option for analog that I could see 

[SirPoonga]

try stick.

[IntruderAlert]

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