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Author Topic: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?  (Read 7729 times)

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Crazy Cooter

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Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« on: February 21, 2005, 07:53:48 pm »
I'm hoping this gets posted (for awhile).

If you have had an auction pulled or letter sent or anything else that has affected your income, post here so you can get in touch with others in the same boat.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2005, 09:12:46 pm by Crazy Cooter »

MonitorGuru

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2005, 09:57:24 pm »
Just an FYI... Responding to any VeRO takedown directly to eBay will do ABSOUTELY NOTHING.

eBay WILL not listen, regardless of your facts and proof.

Namco removed 2 of my pac-man arcade board auctions because I used the words "replaced bad ram chips" (and they felt I had modified eprom game code.)  eBay would NOT reinstate my auctions or respond with anything more than "contact xxxx@namco.com" for more information.  Similar stories are EVERYWHERE on the net about eBay and VeRO.

JODY

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2005, 11:03:10 pm »
Wonder what the law is for auctions.  Kind of sounds like guilty until proven innoscent.

DarkKobold

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2005, 11:09:01 pm »
Ebay policy enforcement is not governed by law, although, many policies are a result of laws. It is their site, and therefore, their rules. If ebay wants to pull your auction because you looked at them funny, they can.

You, as the consumer, can not use ebay, but these days, the uniformed masses will continue to use what they know while be pounded from the back side. Therefore, a strike against ebay will be taking pebbles to attack a castle.
-------------------------------------
My games: Tapper, Asteroids, Cocktail-MAME, Tron, ROTJ, Tempest, Star Wars (not working)
My wants: Warlords Cocktail

Pete Harcoff

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2005, 12:10:03 am »
Eh, I don't blame eBay for being paranoid.  They've got to cover their asses, too.  Look what happened in India over that porn video that was being auctioned.  The CEO of the auction site (owned by eBay no less) got arrested!

Obviously not quite the same thing would happen over here, but there's still the chance of expensive legal action.

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2005, 09:03:06 am »
I just got off the phone with a good friend of mine ( :police:), and Foley (Ultracade) might be in major trouble for what he did to Emdkay.  EmdKay, if you are listening, you need to call your sheriffs department and explain what happened.  Show them the emails sent (with extended headers) and they will be quite interested in your story.

The best part is that this was perpetrated across state lines...  :-X Federal Racketeering  :-X

Main Entry: rack

clanggedin

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2005, 11:39:59 am »
I hope this guy regrets he ever messed with MAME and its supporters.

Dexter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2005, 12:08:28 pm »
I hope this guy regrets he ever messed with MAME and its supporters.

Amen. To take a profit free project like mame that loads of people devote their free time to developing and try this crap with it is unforgivable. At very least a blanket boycott, and let people know whats going on. Hopefully he'll be screwed.

Stingray

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2005, 02:05:24 pm »
What a sleazebag.

-S
Stingray you magnificent bastard!
This place is dead lately.  Stingray scare everyone off?

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2005, 02:10:07 pm »
I just got off the phone with a good friend of mine ( :police:), and Foley (Ultracade) might be in major trouble for what he did to Emdkay.

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2005, 02:19:20 pm »
The best part is that this was perpetrated across state lines...  :-X Federal Racketeering  :-X
Ahahahahaha, oh man, that would be too funny.

SirPoonga

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2005, 02:29:25 pm »
Is Foley going after auctions on other countries ebay sites or just the .com?

GGKoul

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2005, 02:32:30 pm »
Is Foley going after auctions on other countries ebay sites or just the .com?
I assume auctions based in the US and in the UK.

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2005, 03:11:07 pm »
Had a little trawl through ebay uk yesterday and there seemed to be the usual amount of MAME related sales offered.
I didn't touch it....honest!

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2005, 04:02:54 pm »
Dream Arcades has lost a good $2,000 and the losses will add-up each week until this crap gets stopped. We had two auctions that were shutdown just hours before they closed.
-Mike

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2005, 04:08:02 pm »
Dream Arcades has lost a good $2,000 and the losses will add-up each week until this crap gets stopped. We had two auctions that were shutdown just hours before they closed.
-Mike


What is that based on?  What the auctions were going for?  What the unit actually cost?  Past average sales?  Shipping and handling charges?  Other odds and ends costs required to sell the products?

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2005, 04:34:05 pm »
Dream Arcades has lost a good $2,000 and the losses will add-up each week until this crap gets stopped. We had two auctions that were shutdown just hours before they closed.
-Mike


That will be out of reach for small claims court real fast.  Talk with emdkay and see if he wants to have a phone consultation with an attorney (he may already be doing that, he's being pretty quiet).  Also, contact the police.  Internet fraud is a crime.  They can get the info needed from ebay.  Document your every move.  Dedicate an entire notebook right now and start writing down everything at every step (including what has happened already).  Your first step should be with the police.  Your lawyer will send him and ebay a cease and desist letter which should let you continue business at that point.  You *should* be able to recoup your lawyers fees, but that would be the first question I'd ask them.

If you or Emdkay need help with fees, post back.  I'm good for a couple bucks.

You should also contact Aaron Giles and let him know what is happening and what your intentions are.  That way everything is coordinated.  Most of all, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2005, 06:15:39 pm »
Bottom line is we are not going to let this continue to happen. We'll take whatever steps are necessary to stop this. We are already working on a couple of different fronts.
I can't elaborate more that this point.
-Mike

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2005, 06:37:29 pm »
i hope this guy gets bent over by the mame community and other mame arcade sellers alike. theres nothing wrong with selling prebuilt cabs made for MAME but to try and trademark MAME like that is an insult to all the people that put work into the FREE code known as mame..
"Owens is the ringleader in the ass hat circus"  D K

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2005, 07:29:36 pm »
Bottom line is we are not going to let this continue to happen. We'll take whatever steps are necessary to stop this. We are already working on a couple of different fronts.
I can't elaborate more that this point.
-Mike


Excellent.

Now us "common" ebayers need to band together and ask ebay to actually do an investigation (like they claim they do).  If your auction has been cancelled, contact vero@ebay.com and ask them to provide you a copy of what Mr Foley (refer to him by the information they gave you at the time of the cancelled auction) has signed claiming his "right" to cancel your auction.  If you planned on putting something up, do so.  If he is claiming the trademark, indicate to ebay that there is no registration number.  If enough people that have had auc tions pulled say the same thing, maybe somebody will look into it.  Anyhow, the cancelled auction will entitle you to contact the police for internet fraud.  Just document everything..

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2005, 07:34:29 pm »
You can file a complaint online with the IFCC here:
http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2005, 11:18:25 pm »
You can file a complaint online with the IFCC here:
http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp

Excellent post!
"IFCC accepts on-line Internet fraud complaints from either the person who believes they were defrauded or from a third party to the complaint. "

Since I can't find what you guys are selling, I can also file a complaint... If it said "third party to the complainant" it would mean legal council.  Since it says complaint, we're all in.

IntruderAlert

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2005, 12:25:04 am »
thanks CC..
and by the way.. your sig isn't showing up for us since angelfire doesn't allow remote links
but I posted it on Image Shack 4 ya

Just replace your sig with the following code

RayB

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2005, 09:35:02 am »
I'm adding that banner to www.retrofx.com
but what site/page should I link the banner to? The big thread here on BYOAC??
NO MORE!!

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2005, 09:51:29 am »
Awesome.  (It worked on my home computer :-[.)  Yeah, I'd link it to one of the many threads around.

RayB

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2005, 11:41:26 am »
Just wanted to let you know I just took that boycott banner and I submitted it to the USPTO as MY trademark.
 ;D
NO MORE!!

unclet

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2005, 12:49:44 pm »
Can you file suit against Ultracade indicating they are using the "Mame" text which is a trademark of mame.net for years and years.   If many people can agree that Mame was started way before Ultracade even existed, then one would believe a case could be won...

I believe you do not have to "own" the logo or trademark if you can prove you used it for your industry (etc.) long before the person who is trying to use it now.   It is not like Ultracade is trying to use the "Mame" text to sell cars (or something different) which he then might win the battle of registering the "Mame" text for his own "unique" purpose.   However, since Ultracade is trying to use "Mame" for selling "arcade" related items, then it would be clear that he got the "Mame" text from the mame.net groups, etc... instead of coming up with it himself.

Did that make sense?

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2005, 01:12:46 pm »
What Foley is trying to challenge is the "legitimate use" of the name.  He claims MAME itself isn't "legitimate", so now he can claim it.  The problem is that MAME is legitimate, and has been used in commerce (marquees etc.).  Basically he wants the MAME devs to stand up and say they made money off of it so he can sue them for copyright infringement and collect damages.  If he has 1 copyright for a rom, he will be able to bring them to court.

Of course it won't stand, but it will shake down the community.  Right now, people that have had their business affected need to call the police and have them look into the matter.  Emdkay has the strongest case.  He can show them the paperwork and file a criminal complaint at his local sheriff's office.  Remember, these are all local to YOU.  The crime is being committed in your state to you by him as an individual.  You don't need to go to Cali to press charges.  Talk to your local police dept. and see what they say.  Doesn't hurt to ask (or befriend a cop, it might save you a ticket later  ;))

What Foley needs to do is look at the Bleem! court case.  Emulators are legal.

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2005, 01:13:47 pm »
Can you file suit against Ultracade indicating they are using the "Mame" text which is a trademark of mame.net for years and years.

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2005, 01:45:50 pm »
Doesn't matter.  Ford was around before chevrolet and they can't claim each others work.

RayB

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2005, 03:37:34 pm »
Technically, his emulator IS a "multiple arcade machine emulator". Vantage is also a "multiple arcade machine emulator". Mame.net never used the "TM" symbol to protect the word. Vantage, or Ultracade CAN legally register "Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator". The mistake was stealing the logo.

If he re-registers with a new logo, there could be a very long legal battle ahead...
NO MORE!!

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2005, 07:24:02 pm »
Not really though, M.A.M.E. is an acronym for Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator.  That definition is inherent in the name itself.  The slang/shortened term "MAME" refers to the "correct" name.  So while those programs emulate multiple arcade machines, M.A.M.E. is the Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator.

Kind of like I.R.S. = Internal Revenue Service = IRS.

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2005, 08:15:56 pm »
Technically, his emulator IS a "multiple arcade machine emulator". Vantage is also a "multiple arcade machine emulator". Mame.net never used the "TM" symbol to protect the word. Vantage, or Ultracade CAN legally register "Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator". The mistake was stealing the logo.

If he re-registers with a new logo, there could be a very long legal battle ahead...


This is my take on it. How can you trademark a simple descriptive name? To me, this plays out a lot like someone trying to trademark the name 'TV' and 'television' or 'role-playing game' and 'RPG'. The term 'multiple arcade machine emulator' and 'MAME' is a descriptive term to describe what the program does along with the abbreviation...
Demon Dog? Urusai! ...Baka

RayB

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2005, 08:22:47 pm »
Uh, you may not think that makes sense, but welcome to the trademark biz. Phrases CAN be registered as trademarks. How else to corps protect catch-phrases like "The choice of a new generation" (Pepsi) (search for serial # 73506722

As for Cooter's IRS example. Excellent choice Coot. Now look at these EXISTING AND APPROVED trademarks for "IRS": serial numbers 76513139, 76243381, 76488042, 76207090, 74230050, 74507857 ...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2005, 10:35:19 am by RayB »
NO MORE!!

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2005, 09:02:53 pm »
The search timed out RayB.  Post the serial # and I can find it that way.

I'm waiting to see IRS: The choice of a new generation. ;)

You can TM phrases, but you can't trademark anything that will cause confusion between your item and something else.  Since he's trying to trademark what MAME stands for, it won't be allowed.

I can't trademark "compact disc" because a cd is a cd.  Now if I invented cd's, then I could patent it... but that's a different story.

RayB

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2005, 10:32:57 am »
Oops... I've changed my original post with serial numbers...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2005, 10:35:36 am by RayB »
NO MORE!!

Crazy Cooter

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2005, 12:47:13 pm »
OUCH! #76243381:
"tools and instruments, namely extractors for removal of broken tools and instruments lodged within dental structures."

Sounds just as painful as the real IRS.


Lilwolf

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2005, 01:15:57 pm »
If he starts over with Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator... Well MAME will still be MAME (maybe Machine Arcade Multiple Emulator.... or Many Arcade Machine Emulator... or "Multitude of Arcades My Emulator"  or MAgnificent MachinE or


btw... my post from above.

I don't believe anyone on the mame team has any problems with MAME marquees... But I can tell you this... the guy who created my MAME tshirt asked before making them... and they said no problem. 

I don't believe you will get support for selling a mame cabinet on ebay with or without roms, while using their name....  Unless it was 'Also supports MAME' or something similar (ie, not in subject and pasted everywhere)... But its not up to me to say.. you can ask yourself.

I know they love the repo components and encoders. 

I think there is a LOT of grey area hear.  And I know they don't like piping up with what they find ok / not (because then they will find others using those words later to justify anything...)

but you do have to realize.  When you sell items and use MAME as a/the selling point... you ARE making money on their back / hardwork. 

I don't personally believe that using MAME in an ebay auction is needed myself... The people who know of MAME will not need you to tell them.. And the ones who dont... it wont help. 

mnm1200

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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2005, 04:57:20 pm »
Uh, you may not think that makes sense, but welcome to the trademark biz. Phrases CAN be registered as trademarks. How else to corps protect catch-phrases like "The choice of a new generation" (Pepsi) (search for serial # 73506722

As for Cooter's IRS example. Excellent choice Coot. Now look at these EXISTING AND APPROVED trademarks for "IRS": serial numbers 76513139, 76243381, 76488042, 76207090, 74230050, 74507857 ...


Catch-phrases are fine to trademark, but you can't trademark general descriptive names (such as TV and RPG like I mentioned). Also, trademarks can be made on the same name as long as it is in a different industry (like 76513139 and 74230050 which are NOT general descriptive terms but abbreviations of business  names).
76207090 was not approved.
Documents on 74507857 are not available.
76243381, 76488042: "The examining attorney refuses registration because the mark consists of or comprises matter which may falsely suggest a connection with the United States Internal Revenue Service.  Trademark Act Section 2(a), 15 U.S.C.
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Re: Business/income impact due to "Foley, David R."?
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2005, 05:23:19 pm »
Good digging mnm1200! What a relief.
NO MORE!!