Best joysticks for Robotron style games?

[thrash242]

I'm eventually going to be building a alternate panel for Robotron/SmashTV/TotalCarnage and I was wondering what you would recomment for the joysticks?  The J-Stiks on my current panel don't work too well, because they have very square movement.

I'm thinking about the P360s, but for four of them, I'd have to spend about $200 (of course, that's all I'd need besides start buttons).  Are they that fantastic for smooth diagonals?  4-way isn't an issue, as I'd just be using them for Robotron style games.

[NoOne=NBA=]

How about Robotron sticks?
That's what I'd get.
Seriously.

Get some Wico 8-way leafswitch sticks.
That's what was used at the factory.

[FractalWalk]

For Robotron/Smash use 8-way WICO leafs with rubber grommet . . . there is no substitute.

[brandon]

http://www.centsibleamusements.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=415

of course.. Robotron used long shafts than the stock Wico sticks but I dont see that as being a real big deal.. especially if you are mounting them on a metal control panel.. that would probably make up for the length difference.. or if your using wood you could route out pockets to make it thinner where the joystick goes..

[spidermonkey]

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=6149757241&rd=1

Here ya go. These are the real deal if you want to experience Robotron and Smash TV the way they were in the arcade. The price may go up a bit more since these are brand new (new old stock). If you grew up in the arcades back when Robotron came out then you're probably not going to like the feel of todays spring loaded microswitch joysticks as they feel nothing like the good ole' Wicos with their rubber centering grommet design.

[brandon]

what's the difference between those and the ones I linked to other than they are 2x the price?

[Samstag]

what's the difference between those and the ones I linked to other than they are 2x the price?

Besides the fact that the auction is for 2 sticks?

It's 2 real Wico joysticks.

[NoOne=NBA=]

what's the difference between those and the ones I linked to other than they are 2x the price?

The sticks you linked to are the Chinese knock-offs.
They copied part of the 4-way Wico, part of the 8-way, and came up with a poorly fitting stick that won't do EITHER job well.
There are numerous reports on the board here that the Chinese ones are terrible.

[Stingray]

Get some Wico 8-way leafswitch sticks.
That's what was used at the factory.

Just installed a pair of those on my panel and can confirm that nothing beats 'em for Robotron.

-S

[telengard]

For Robotron/Smash use 8-way WICO leafs with rubber grommet . . . there is no substitute.

I totally agree.  Nothing feels the same as the originals.

[SirPeale]

what's the difference between those and the ones I linked to other than they are 2x the price?

Besides the fact that the auction is for 2 sticks?

It's 2 real Wico joysticks.

I read the auction as one joystick, with two sticks.

[bigle]

I read the auction as one joystick, with two sticks.

it says two complete with assembly and two extra sticks

and

3 joysticks are blue and 1 is red



wicos not withstanding, what is the best current stick (still being manufactured) for these types of games?  supers?  something else?

[Stingray]

Supers work great on Neo Geo games. I put a set on my MVS last night. I don't think they'd be ideal for Robotron, but they are good sticks.

-S

[NoOne=NBA=]

The only stick out there that is currently manufactured, and has the same feel as the Wico sticks is the P360.

Everything else will have square corners to some extent, including some of the later Wico sticks that used the square actuators on the bottom.

[brandon]

what's the difference between those and the ones I linked to other than they are 2x the price?

Besides the fact that the auction is for 2 sticks?

It's 2 real Wico joysticks.

oops.. I apolize for that.. That's what I get for posting at 3am when I should be in bed   not only didnt a not notice there were 2 stick but I also didnt notice the ones I linked to were cheap knock-offs.. I just ASSsumed with the gray bases that they were original Wico sticks... 

[Jakobud]

If only Andy could make the ultimate joystick:

4-8 way switchable T-Stick that used leaf springs and had the throw of the J-Stick....

[NoOne=NBA=]

The problem with a switchable 4/8-way is that it HAS to have a square feel in 8-way mode.
The restrictor that MAKES it a 4-way makes it feel square in 8-way mode.

The only way around this would be to have a restrictor that ONLY affected the stick in 4-way mode.
The only way I've seen to accomplish that so far is to use a restrictor plate.

It would be possible to have a restrictor that kind of slid in and out from the four diagonals, and only blocked movement in 4-way mode, but nobody has designed/produced one yet.

-----------------------------------------------------------

The real tell-tale on Wico/not-Wico is the screw-on leafswitches.
Wico had leafswitches that pushed into a holder from the top.
The knock-offs use a "bolt on from the side" system.

[Doc-]

I recently installed some Happs Perfect 360's and have to agree that they are very good for this type of game.  It felt like I was cheating.

Doc-

[IreM72]

From reading the threads a lot of people like them and say they are great sticks so,

my questions:

Did most of the 4 way and 8 way arcade machines of the 80s and 90s have these Wico leaf and microswitch joysticks?

Were they used for all game types? (apart from the robotron and smash TV)

Would these wico (4 way and 8 way) sticks be good for all type of 4 way and 8 way games with no need for any other stick like T-stick, J-stick, super, competition etc?

[FractalWalk]

Each stick has its own advantages and disadvanatges. The Wico 8-ways are the best stick for Robotron/SMASH TV. It was what was used in the original games and you will play much better with those sticks than any other on those particular games.

However, for other games like fighters they may not work so well. So for Robotron, no you don't need any other stick, but for other games you might.

[Doc-]

my questions:
Did most of the 4 way and 8 way arcade machines of the 80s and 90s have these Wico leaf and microswitch joysticks?

Were they used for all game types? (apart from the robotron and smash TV)

Would these wico (4 way and 8 way) sticks be good for all type of 4 way and 8 way games with no need for any other stick like T-stick, J-stick, super, competition etc?

I have a lot of joysticks on my modular system, so it is fun to do side-by-side comparisons:

1. Yes, most of the old games used leaf joysticks.  In fact most buttons also used leaf switches.  The old wico's are great - I have a 4 way that is my favorite 4-way joystick - even over the pac man galaga reunion (which is very good too).

2. Yes, they were used for most game types - especially the early 80's.

3. It is a matter of preference - for example the ball top joysticks are not ideal for every game.  What feel's "right" for Robotron (which requires a short throw, smooth diagonals and quick switch time) might not be perfect for many more modern games.

The leaf joysticks went out of fashion largely because they periodically needed adjustment (the leaf would bend).  Not a big deal for your home system as you can easily make these adjustments, but certainly a factor in a high abuse arcade environment where a lot of machines are involved.

However, I see no reason why a few Wico's would not work well in your home system - especially if you like the feel of them.  Try to get the "old" wicos and not the new imitations from Asia.

Cheers!
Doc-

[southpaw13]

I got you all beat!  How about a pair of original Wico leaf 8-ways with a new set of Specialty Plastics translucent ball top joysticks?

[Kremmit]

Damn, those look good.  I didn't know he was making 'em again. 

Suddnly there's all these choices..  SlikStik or GroovyGameGear's Stainless or Anodized, and now Tom's transulcents are back.  Too cool!  If only I could decide...

[brandon]

ooh ooh.. those look sweet.. how about custom shafts with a holes through the middle to allow lighting with LEDs or fiber optics.... oooh.. that would be sweeeet!!! or combination top fire and leds.. with matching lighted buttons.. Mmm.. that would look so awesome.

[thrash242]

OK, it seems that Wico are the most original and best for Robotron style games.   I'll be looking for four matching ones.

Just out of curiosity, what would the best currently made joystick be?  P360?  Keep in mind that I never actually played Robotron in arcades (though I love it on my cabinet), but I did play the *hell* out of Smash TV and Total Carnage.  Did they use Wicos too?

I'm probably going with the Wicos, since they're a lot cheaper (especially since I need four) anyway, I'm just wondering.

[Wade]

I just sold a 49-way stick.  It had a rubber grommet and no corners at all, a very nice feel.  I'm not sure how these compare in feel to the P360's, but I think they would feel similar to the original 8-way rubber grommet Wico leafs.

Wade

[Stingray]

I got you all beat!  How about a pair of original Wico leaf 8-ways with a new set of Specialty Plastics translucent ball top joysticks?

SEXY!

-S

[GGKoul]

I got you all beat!

[GGKoul]

I didn't realize all the Wico knock-offs on ebay.

[JODY]

I've got P360s and Happ Competition sticks.

[NoOne=NBA=]

The problem with Comps is that they are too prone to STAYING in those corners.
You need to be able to spray your shots when moving diagonally, not just shoot diagonally.

With the Wicos, your shots will shoot some forward, some diagonal, some up as you rake back and forth in the corner.
With the Comps, you will get almost ALL your shots diagonally.
They just don't come out off the corners like the Wicos.

I haven't used the P360s (never seeing a need for them, since I have the Wicos), but there is a night/day difference between the Comps and Wicos performance-wise.

[southpaw13]

http://members.aol.com/specialtyplastic/index.htm

Here you go!  Great guy to work with.  Very unique items to keep your stuff looking different from everyone else...

[Minwah]

Pretty unhelpful, but here's a semi-related rant...

I've been playing a bit of Robotron / Smash TV / Total Carnage with my J-Stiks lately...the reason being I removed my 7th button (NeoGeo A) as it was getting in the way of my P2 stick for these games.  While I was (& still am) crap at the games I've noticed quite a bit of improvement in not too much play time.

I definately seemed to hit the diagonals too easily on the shoot stick probably due to the light throw of the stick and cack-handed-ness of my right hand.  Now I've got used to it, I'm not so bad (tho I wouldn't post my scores )

[JODY]

The problem with Comps is that they are too prone to STAYING in those corners.
You need to be able to spray your shots when moving diagonally, not just shoot diagonally.

I've got several competition sticks and haven't had a problem with them staying in the diagonals.

[FractalWalk]

I've got several competition sticks and haven't had a problem with them staying in the diagonals.

[NoOne=NBA=]

This is probably only an issue with Robotron/Smash TV as it is very important to be able to roll your joystick in and out of the corners smoothly. You need a sensitive stick with a round restrictor and leaf switches to do that.

Time Pilot and Gyruss are the other two games I can think of that really HAVE to have a round restrictor to play right.
I PREFER a round restrictor on Bosconian, but can do almost as well with a square restrictor.

Most fighters do BETTER with square restrictors, by contrast.

[JODY]

Here's a review of a leaf Wico:

http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/joysticks/wico.html

I've considered getting one but have stayed with the comps and P360s.  The reviewer above wasn't too thrilled with them.

I really like my P360's which have round restrictors, but have played Robotron with the comps and didn't have a problem.  Will have to compare more with the P360's once I get my cab done which won't be anytime soon.

[Peter Baluk]

have some originals here if you need them .Let me know.

[RayB]

Regarding the Retroblast review, it's one man's opinion. And regarding this line from his review:

"but the lack of feedback about when you've pushed the joystick far enough took some getting used to."

The "feedback" is inthe games! You don't need to feel or hear a click because right on the screen your character will move (visual feedback) and as with most games will also have a movement sound effect (audio feedback).

~Ray B.

[NoOne=NBA=]

The P360 is functionally the same stick as a good Wico.
They have no corners, and move smoothly.
If you've got P360s, there's no need to get Wicos.
The P360 was ORIGINALLY an add-on module for the standard Wicos, that replaced the leafswitches with optical ones.
They've redesigned it a bit for the stand-alone model, but the operation remains the same.

The bad review that Kevin gave the Wicos was from his own lack of familiarity with them, or because the one he had wasn't one of the GOOD Wico sticks.
I can't tell for sure from his data, but suspect it might have been both.

He claims that his Wico hung up in the corners, which leads me to believe it may have been a square restrictor transitional model.
He also claims that it felt really stiff due to the springs in it.
The GOOD Wicos didn't HAVE springs, but the square restrictor ones did.