joystick dust washers - adding felt on the bottom? (or something similar)

[megashock5]

My wife actually suggested this to me, so I thought I'd see if anyone has tried this...

She wondered if adding something like felt to the bottom of the plastic dust washers would help with not scratching the overlay.

Any opinions? Thanks a lot!

[SirPeale]

The easiest solution to this of course is to have the dust washers *under* the overlay, where they belong.

[CCM]

Doesn't the dust washer move with the joystick?  Wouldn't putting it *under* the overlay prevent that movement?  Or am I completely off-base?

[RayB]

Look at the top of your joystick base. Some of them have a raised edge. The dust washer can fit into the lowered space on the top and still move around with the joy...

[SirPeale]

I worded that badly.

They don't go under the overlay itself, rather under either a piece of plexi or metal that is on top of the wooden CP.

[coasternuts]

I didn't think those dust washers would scratch the plexi.

[SirPeale]

He never said plexi, he said artwork.  With the way you guys usually make your artwork, after a while the action of the dustwasher on top of it would wear it away.

[Stingray]

It constantly amazes me at how many cabs have the dust washers on top of the CP instead of under where they belong. Of course CPs are supposed to be made of sheet metal and not a 3/4 inch thick hunk of wood too. **puts on flame resistant suit and jumps for cover**

-S

[ErikRuud]

My dust washers are underneath where they belong, although I have seen a few real arcade machines where they wer mounted on top.  There was a four player game in the trainstation that had one with the washer on top, two with it underneath and the fourth had no washer at all.

Joystick are primarily designed for metal panels.  My panel is sort of a compromise.  I use two layers to construct my panels.  The upper layer is a high grade (5 laminations or more) 1/4" plywood.  The lower layer is 1/2" or 3/4" plywood.  The joystichs are mounted to the 1/4" layer and fit into cutouts in the lower layer.  This gives a stronger mount than routing out the backside of an MDF panel as most people do.

[SirPeale]

There are games with both metal and wood control panels.  I've got an original Mortal Kombat CP that is wood.

If you saw the washers on top then likely the game was a conversion.

[whammoed]

Yep, the two cocktails I built I put the dust washers on top without giving it a thought.  The last game I saw on location had it this way so it was stuck in my head.  I haven't got around to switching them...and I think I may hold off for a while because I've noticed they offer a bit more protection on top.  It leaves less opportunities for toddler crums to find their way inside the panel.  I have textured black panels with no overlay so it looks fine.

[FractalWalk]

I put mine under plexi on wood (ala OSCAR) for no reason other than I think it looks better.  It allowed my a bit more freedom with my artwork as well.

[IG-88]

Joystick are primarily designed for metal panels.

[crashwg]

Not that I want to anyways, but I can't put my dustwasher under the cp/artwork...  It's a T-Stick+! 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

AAAAAHHHHH! Stop giving me things to think about!!! AAHHHHHHH!! Washers on top, or washers on bottom....AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!

[Minwah]

As said, some originals did have dustwashers on top...

Most originals did not use plexi...

And IMO if you have a proper CPO material the dustwasher won't wear through the artwork.

[Sephroth57]

dustwashers belong on top... every arcade i remember being in as a kid they were always on top... i dunno what u guys were smoking 

[RayB]

dustwashers belong on top... every arcade i remember being in as a kid they were always on top... i dunno what u guys were smoking

[sWampy]

I always thought those things were put there so people couldn't get their fingers caught between the cp and the joystick, and maybe injure their poor little finger, and hire a scum ball lawyer to sue the arcade out of business.

[Thenasty]

Dust go under the cp if the CP is METAL. It does not look good if using a 3/4 MDF wood, it has to be on top.

[megashock5]

^ yeah, I'm using 3/4" MDF. If I routered a spot for the washer into the top of the wood, it would prevent the stick from moving far enough to hit the switches. (keep in mind I have no idea what I'm doing, really).

sWampy does bring up a good point about fingers. I'll consider it a safety measure for my 4 year old

 

[Thenasty]

sWampy does bring up a good point about fingers. I'll consider it a safety measure for my 4 year old

 

How about when player gets piss and stick a BLOB of bubble GUM in the HOLE

[Shape D.]

Not that I want to anyways, but I can't put my dustwasher under the cp/artwork...  It's a T-Stick+! 

How does the type of stick make a differance?

[Sephroth57]

i think because those are the switchable 4-8way sticks and it would interfere with the mechanism if it were underneath

[Minwah]

i think because those are the switchable 4-8way sticks and it would interfere with the mechanism if it were underneath

Actually I think it's because the washers on the T-Stik Plus are not (easily) removable - the balltops are glued on pretty good...

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Actually I think it's because the washers on the T-Stik Plus are not (easily) removable - the balltops are glued on pretty good...

I guess it's not easy, but they can come off the bottom of the shaft if you swap the stick out. Just incase others are wondering.

[FractalWalk]

As said, some originals did have dustwashers on top...

dustwashers belong on top... every arcade i remember being in as a kid they were always on top... i dunno what u guys were smoking

[crashwg]

Not that I want to anyways, but I can't put my dustwasher under the cp/artwork...

[megashock5]

Those pics make sense if you were using plexi over the wood. I'm just using an adhesive graphic overlay, so I don't know what it would stick to over the washer area. Maybe I'm just not getting it, wouldn't be the first time that happened. 

[Shape D.]

Not that I want to anyways, but I can't put my dustwasher under the cp/artwork...  It's a T-Stick+! 

How does the type of stick make a differance?

The way the T-Stick+ works is that you pull the handle vertically and then rotate the stick to switch between 4 and 8 way modes. If you put the dustwasher under the cp you wouldn't be able to pull the stick.

I had thought the dust washers were looser on the sticks so it would just slide through the washer.

[Minwah]

I guess it's not easy, but they can come off the bottom of the shaft if you swap the stick out. Just incase others are wondering.

I thought the lower part of the shaft had a fatter section (to prevent the stick falling through the centre hole) which would not allow the wash to come off.  I might be wrong...

[Minwah]

You can route out an area on wood big enough for full joy movement and still make it look good. Oscar shows one way to do this on his site.

What Megashock said is right.  Oscar does a great job here (as always), but he's using plexi.  He (& I) do not want to use plexi...so wood is certainly not ideal for under panel washer mounting.  The only way around it I can think of is to use a metal mounting plate mounted flush into the wood.

While I agree most classic games have the washers underneath, many newer games have washers on top.  In particular cabs which use Jap-style sticks as these (usually) do not have the recess that Happ sticks have - I expect you could get around this by spacing the sticks down slightly with washers.

[versapak]

It never occurred to me to mount them underneath the plexi, but I don't think I would like it like that anyway, since I don't have any CP artwork to hide the disc, and

[Shape D.]

I also like to spin it. I imagine that certainly doesn't help the look of the plxi, but what can ya do? 

Not spin it.

[versapak]

Not spin it.

One would certianly think that would be an option, but I have found that it is actually not doable.

I am just too figity a person I suppose.   

[SirPeale]

I should write a tutorial the way I did it.  I did it almost the way Oscar did it, except I routed an area for squares of plexi over the joystick area, instead of a sheet of plexi on the entire CP.

As for  real control panels, I have a Mortal Kombat CP I should take a picture of.  It's got 3/4" wood/MDF, and the dust washers are mounted right under a sheet of metal that's on top, and the area underneath has been routed out.  I don't know if it covers the entire top or not, though.

[FractalWalk]

He (& I) do not want to use plexi...so wood is certainly not ideal for under panel washer mounting.

[Shape D.]

I'm guessing because its easier to find a thin sheet of metal than plexi.

[Minwah]

I'm guessing because its easier to find a thin sheet of metal than plexi.

Actually I was thinking more that I could mount a stick directly to metal, but couldn't to plexi.  Also Oscar used T-nuts, but I was planning to just use carriage bolts (they probably would crack the plexi or just not hold as well as in metal).

My only other concern is that I'm not too keen on working with plexi...but that's my problem 

I'm not sure what I will do when it comes to it...I might try the metal idea just to see if it works & looks OK.

Peale:  I'd be interested in seeing your MK panel if you can get any pics - sounds like pretty much what I was thinking.  I would probably just use small plates of metal for the sticks sunk into the wood.

[FractalWalk]

Actually I was thinking more that I could mount a stick directly to metal, but couldn't to plexi.

[Stingray]

dustwashers belong on top... every arcade i remember being in as a kid they were always on top... i dunno what u guys were smoking 

I suspect this has something to do with the fact that those of us who say they belong under a metal control panel were playing video games in arcades well before you were born. Everything already had crap conversions by the time you wandered in. 

Yeah, yeah, I know that some games had wood CPs with the washer on top but all of the early to mid '80 classics had a metal control panel with a properly placed dush washer under the panel.

-S

[Sephroth57]

hmm, that might be true. i didnt really start frequenting arcades till the early 90s

[NIVO]

I cover my stick whenever I can    fiddling with it excessively can cause trouble, be safe! 

[Thenasty]

I cover my stick whenever I can

[NIVO]

no troubles was right, ill make it clearer. you can have "troubles" if you are in the wrong situation/environment.   

get some custom made ones with a teflon coating and you'll never worry about them scarring up any artwork. Urethane in its proper form may do the trick as they are used in places where self lubrication is required(like urethane bushings in automobile suspension upgrades).

[markrvp]

I hate that I saw this thread.

[Minwah]

1.  If the artwork (like Oscar's) is on top of the plexiglass, how do you cut nice looking holes in the artwork?

Using a sharp knife I would think.  I've never done it though so I'd like to hear any tips people might have...

2.  Since Oscar attached the artwork to plexiglass, does that mean you aren't supposed to attach artwork to wood ever?  Or, was the sole purpose of the plexiglass to allow for the dustwashers to be mounted under the artwork?

I think Oscar did it basically to retain an original look (both artwork & washers).  Most people who use plexi do cover their artwork to protect it.  You can attach artwork straight to wood, although I would paint it first to make sure it is sealed.  If you don't want to use plexi then get your control panel printed onto proper control panel overlay (eg from www.classicarcadegrafix.com or www.mamemarquees.com).

Would I be considered a "white trash cabinet builder" if I put the plexiglass on top of the artwork and the dustwashers on top of the plexiglass?

No, many people do that, but your plexi might get scratched by the washers.  I personally don't want to use plexi on top as I think plexi gets too easily scratched, full stop (think watches, rings etc.)...

[FractalWalk]

1.

[Mameotron]

My wife actually suggested this to me, so I thought I'd see if anyone has tried this...

She wondered if adding something like felt to the bottom of the plastic dust washers would help with not scratching the overlay.

Any opinions? Thanks a lot!

Last night I discovered something.

[DrewKaree]

To me, what's so silly is that if you're going through all the trouble of attaching felt to the bottom of this, why not go the whole nine yards and make an entire dust washer out of felt?  Then you could make it match your cab by using a different color, you don't have to worry about scratching the plexi, and I bet they're hard as hell to spin! 

[Mameotron]

Ooooh!

[Xiaou2]

 This Dustcover topic heats me up a bit.   While there may be evidence that the older style cabs used them underneath the metal...  That means nothing.   Its still "opinion" on its usage.

  Older games also used overlays on top of the metal panels...  no plexi.   However...  these overlays cracked, flaked off,  created nasty sharp uncomfortable edges, exposed sticky glue...ect.   

  Im sure that the spills from soda and the crumbs from food getting into the joystick and cabnet also was common with the older cabs.

  Im a fan of classics.   I own a few.  I also managed an arcade for 3 yrs of my life.   

  Yes... there were many conversions.   However... that dosnt change the facts.   I took a MS Pacman, and added Plexi to the panel.   Why?
Because the cracking and other wear as stated above.   I also placed the Protector Discs on top of the control panels.  Because I didnt like my micros to be destroyed by sticky soda... and gummed up by crumbs.   And also, as mentioned here,  the pinching that can come from the hole.

 Looks are secondary when you are out to try to keep your games from being destroyed.     

 Plain and simple,  the covers do work better on top... as far as protection goes.  Nobody with any sense of intelligence can dispute that.

 While spills and crumbs may not be an issue  in a home enviornment... its still possible... and again,  its still 'opinion'.

 As for the reality... the covers are very lightweight and slick... so they wont easily scratch the plexi.  In fact... felt may be more damaging.   Think of when you tried to slide down a carpeted staircase 'rugburn!'  The surface is un-even and the hairs rub to form
friction.  They actually use fabric for polishing wheels - and at speed,
those seemingly harmless threads can cut metal! : )

 You might see wear from the discs- but would take like 7yrs to notice it.   Also, most of the non deep surface scratches can  be buffed out easily.

 Finally, get used to seeing a few scratches on plexi surface.  They will occur no matter what.  Jewelry, watches, cups, ect.   Just have fun playing the cab... as thats much more important than a few scratches
 ; )

 

[FractalWalk]

Plain and simple,

[Minwah]

I think it's 50/50.  If the washers are on top some little turd might lift it up and tip drink into the hole.  But if poured on top of the washer it might run away from the hole more than if the washer was mounted underneath, I don't know, who knows.  In fact, who cares 

Some games had the washer underneath: http://images.webmagic.com/klov.com/images/10/1065234875.jpg

Some games had the washer on top: http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=V&game_id=10328

So, the choice is yours


Now the topic of plexi...while I agree it will protect the artwork better, in a home environment I don't think a proper CPO will deteriorate (?) in a hurry.  I bought an original well used Star Wars panel and aside from a few cigarette burns, it looked perfect.  If you have the drinking pouring turd from above running around, it might be more of an issue (I'm thinking biro's...)

[RayB]

The term "dead horse" is appropriate here...

[Stingray]

The term "dead horse" is appropriate here...

Perhaps, but I intend to keep preaching the word of the dust washer belonging under the panel anyway.

-S

[Shape D.]

There usually only 1/8 of an in under the panel anyways, youre not going to get a whole lot stuck in there.