Is there some "friction" in the classic gaming community?

[LeedsFan]

I'm new to this hobby..... just started my Mame cab a month ago. I've learned loads in that time, mainly from reading this very forum. (Well I would do, as I knew zero before that  )

But in my searches on the net I seem to find a bit of discomfort between Mamers and collecters of original cabs. How serious is this? And let's mot beat about the bush..... we may only be talking games here, but as in any hobby passions can be high. I would welcome views from both angles, but on this particular forum I may only get the one.
And remember, I'm new to this. So please don't flame me if I'm spouting the' bleedin' obvious.

[Hoagie_one]

dunno about most problems, but one that arrises often enough is about rare games that have not been rom dumped.  the mamers want it, the collectors dont.  raises their value.

[Lilwolf]

And also when people mame a classic or rare cabinet.  I'm sure that pisses people off.

but the value games go down as soon as they are emulated.  So for a collector, mame can drop the value of their collection pretty quick.

[eypyeash]

Well, my two cents:

I'm compelled to buy PCBs mainly because MAME seems like 'cheating'.  Computers are tempermental and don't run the games I enjoy fast enough unless I run out and buy state-of-the-art, which I do not have the money for necessarily.  However, I do have the cash to plunk down on eBay for a PCB or two every month or so, and it's nice just to same "I've got a REAL arcade cabinet" rather than "I've got a computer in an arcade cabinet".  I'm also sick of seeing the same tired, though likely very efficient, trackball-in-the-center two-to-four-player MAME cabinets emblazoned with a hefty RACERMAMEXARCADEMAMEAWESOME logo jammed all over it.  No, I want to play Battle Bakraid without lag, and I want to feel the board and get stabbed by the solder side.  I'll play Mame in my living room from a laptop s-video out and a couple Dual Shocks plugged into a converter, but for it just doesn't beat the feeling of owning the game.  

But then, obviously I'm not what you'd call a "classic" gamer.  Everything I like is practically Jamma, or Jamma convertible.  Time Pilot 84 and Shinobi are the only games off the path I can think of.  My Dual Shock hacked arcade stick is enough to play Dig Dug on the PS2, thankyouverymuch.  

--Denis!

[TOK]

Computers are temperamental and 15-20 year old arcade games aren't?
C'mon, do you ACTUALLY own a dedicated cab?  

[paigeoliver]

The main friction comes from two things.

People who chop the front off a cabinet and install a larger control panel. I'll call these dumpstercades, because the minute that is done they are destined for the dumpster.

People who mame out complete DEDICATED games. This is really common, see a current thread about a newbie asking for tips on how to install a frankenpanel on his complete dedicated Galaga.

Also, if your Mame cabinet has a visible television set, computer monitor, or if the control panel size is altered, or god forbid it has a premade control panel bolted on then the entire collecting community and a smaller portion of the mame community will consider you to be an idiot.

Want to avoid friction, it is really simple, use converted cabinets. And DON'T put up web pages showing yourself ripping apart, painting over and otherwise ruining dedicated games. If you have an empty dedicated cabinet and use that then be sure and note that on your web page.

Many of us here are very active in  both communities, so we understand both points of view. I have personally already made all the mistakes, and it does hurt me to watch you guys get all excited about making the same mistakes.

I have

trusted Klov for a pinout and fried two boards because of it (SCI is not JAMMA, my SCI cabinet killed my Double Dragon board because of this and my Double Dragon cabinet killed my SCI board).

Bolted an oversize control panel onto a Defender cabinet. It looked terrible and didn't feel a bit natural, and real life people commented on it. I took it off later.

accidently broken a monitor neck.

powered up a monitor without an isolation transformer and horked it out.

Ruined a Pac-man cabinet by doing modifications.

thought an 8-way stick would be OK for 4-way games, it isn't.


Get the picture!!  

[mahuti]

I get friction from the collectors because I run the arcade art library (a collection of arcade game art for download. Some collectors don't want me to put art out into the world with easy access, because "if the repro houses can't make money off of the popular stuff, they won't ever reproduce insert rare arcade game name marquee/bezel/cpo, etc"

My initial reaction was "that's just crazy" but I can kind of see their point. I just think there is PLENTY of room for both of us. At one point I tried to hold out an olive branch to promote legitimate repro houses on my site, but my post on the subject (and the complaining posts that started it) was deleted. I feel for people that want to get affordable arcade art screenprinted to "accurately" reproduce their original, but frankly, a repro is a repro, no matter how hiqh quality. You might as well have a choice about where you get it done. For some, the desire for and lack of a "perfect" screenprinted repro might be extremely painful, but for a large majority, it's  better to have access to the artwork to take it where they want.

I love arcade games. And I love helping other people relive their youth. I would hate to know  that I had made some repro guy lose lots of money and thus hurt the cause, but the possibility of that scenario is too nebulous for me to give up the library and my pursuits for that "what if." Especially when most of the feedback for me has been overwhelmingly positive.  

Anyway, I don't visit rgvac anymore. I might have stigma attached   Whether there is an unwritten animosity between the 2 groups, I don't know, but there is definitely love within this one.

[Gunstar Hero]

I think... and don't kill me for this if I'm wrong... alot of classic arcade collectors are being hurt by their hobby suddenly being "popular."

It's like, now you have people bastardizing the "purity" of their hobby. It used to be if you had a board, and a buddy had a board, and you each wanted to play something different you'd maybe just swap, or lend or even just give them a board you might have laying around. MAME and ROMS have all but rendered that practice obsolete, and with the advent of evilBay and "arcade collecting" now everyone is convinced that every piece of crap JAMMA game out there is worth $1000, not to mention the ---daisies--- trying to get $5000 for a goddam MAME cab. I mean, what the hell is that about?

It's hard not to hate MAME people when everyone is trying to make a buck (or a thousand) off of everyone else.

But... so far since I've been visiting these  boards, I've seen people offer parts and services for free... and answer the most inane questions dozens of times... and seen real pride taken in fine workmanship... and experienced a healthy (sometimes TOO healthy!) desire to preserve arcade life.

Really, in any hobby you're going to have extremists. Examples? PS2 vs. XBOX. Ford vs. Chevy. Marvel vs. Cap... I mean DC.  

But in the end, whether you post/lurk on BYOAC, KLOV, RVGAC ect. we all do it because we love the games.

I say, MAME or Jamma or Classic or Console collectors unite! Let's all hate the laserdisc people!!

Okay, just kidding.  

Really.

Look, I'll run Daphne to prove it!

Okay.  

[LeedsFan]

People who chop the front off a cabinet and install a larger control panel. I'll call these dumpstercades, because the minute that is done they are destined for the dumpster.

People who mame out complete DEDICATED games. This is really common, see a current thread about a newbie asking for tips on how to install a frankenpanel on his complete dedicated Galaga.

Also, if your Mame cabinet has a visible television set, computer monitor, or if the control panel size is altered, or god forbid it has a premade control panel bolted on then the entire collecting community and a smaller portion of the mame community will consider you to be an idiot.

Well, I'm pleased to say that I haven't done ANY of these things with my project. But being totally new to this hobby I  could have easily strayed into one of these areas.

There are some interersting points made here, and I never realised how large and generally very helpful this community is. I think a lot of that is due to most of us being in our late 20's or our 30's so you don't get many idiots spoiling the atmos. Well, I haven't seen any anyway.  

And I agree that the one thing that everyone has in common is their love for the games themselves.

[Minwah]

It's understandable collectors have a bad view of MAME'ers when you see some of the hideous things people do, like jigsaw off the front of some nice classic cab to stick a 10 foot wide control panel on it

In reality I think most people, here in particular like to see dedicated cabs saved rather than MAME'd, but many collectors probably don't realise this.

[danny_galaga]

Well, my two cents:

I'm compelled to buy PCBs mainly because MAME seems like 'cheating'.  Computers are tempermental and don't run the games I enjoy fast enough unless I run out and buy state-of-the-art, which I do not have the money for necessarily.  However, I do have the cash to plunk down on eBay for a PCB or two every month or so

dunno which ebay youre using, but my one doesnt seem to let up many cheap pcbs   . i just let a jamma galaga pcb go when it went to $220 aus (about $150 yank). i dont know if that was a good price or not but PC parts seem a lot cheaper!!

but, i agree with you about the 'realness' of it all. thats why i was watching that sale. im looking to buying some genuine stuff once i understand what prices are fair...

[DYNAGOD]

seeing a 30 dollar color TV crammed into a defender cab with an X arcade control panel drywall screwed into the front is enough to make ANYONE cry..
another one of the reasons i choose a japanese cab.
theyre massed produced in droves, and as a result theres no fearing that you may have killed the last of the white elehphant.
maming a cab should be a way of giving an otherwise unwanted and useless cab a purpose.

[spocktwin]

  But I think the most important part has been left out here.  If you pursue this hobby as a hobby then you do what makes you happy.  If you are in it for the money then again do what makes you happy.  I have a pacman that I have kept true to the fact of not screwing it up not ,for the collectors, but what I wanted to do.  I am 44 years old and I spent way too much of my time (although in bars not arcades at my age) putting quarters in a pacman game.  You might think I would be bored with it, but I won many a brew on that machine so I want it as pristine as possible.
     On the other hand I have a Die Hard machine that some people (go ahead and check it out on KLOV) says it is about as butt ugly as it comes.  I bought it dirt cheap on ebay and ended up giving the monitor away to IceCold because I wanted to mame it.  My 5 and 8 year old play the devil out of it trying a different game nearly every weekend!!  Was maming it worth it???  Hell yes because it is what I wanted and isn't that what a hobby is all about.  I am working on my next one and it will be a total built by me so no one can make any comments about me hurting anyone.  Yes I am a snob to my own desires but then again if you don't like me well,  god bless you and pass another beer!!!
I love this hobby and this board when I retire in 20 or so odd years (yeah like Social Security will be here for me) I hope you still find me lurking here.

[TheBourneID]

If anything, I think the Build-It-Yourself community has increased the value of the games, or at least brought about a resurgence of the game nostalgia.  I owned a Pac-Man about 10 years ago, and bought it for $350, and it was in pretty decent (although obviously not perfect) shape.  Now, they seem to be selling for quite a bit more ($100-$200?), as long as they're original (which I believe mine was).  New games are now available for less than $3000, where the older games (when new) were about $3500+.  Again, I'm trying to remember back to the early-to-mid 1980's, B.C. (before consoles), when the technology was somewhat new, so this may not be accurate.  Is there anyone else that grew up (i.e.--was a teenager) in the 80's that can verify (or refute) what I'm saying?

[Sasquatch!]

I think the way you phrased your question has a lot to do with it: collectors see themselves as the true "classic" gaming community, and the MAME community as a bunch of upstarts who can - from time to time - desecrate the "classicness" of the classics.  It's probably kind of like how people who are into '60s muscle cars view people who are into ZX racing or something.

[Tailgunner]

It's probably kind of like how people who are into '60s muscle cars view people who are into ZX racing or something.

Actually it more like people who'll find a totally stock '57 Chevy and build a hot rod out of it. There are plenty of '57 Chevys that've been modified in the past, and it's pretty easy to find one suitable for a project car. Stock ones are getting scarce, and there's simply no good reason to ruin one when you don't have to.

[SOAPboy]

It's probably kind of like how people who are into '60s muscle cars view people who are into ZX racing or something.

Actually it more like people who'll find a totally stock '57 Chevy and build a hot rod out of it. There are plenty of '57 Chevys that've been modified in the past, and it's pretty easy to find one suitable for a project car. Stock ones are getting scarce, and there's simply no good reason to ruin one when you don't have to.

that is unless your keeping the basic structure of the car intact..

 

[paigeoliver]

Actually most classic games ran about $2000 - $2200 in the old days, with a major exception being Pole Position which was $3K+.

[Soulcon]

I come from the part of well if you have the capability to do something do it. If you do not have the money due to a healthy sex life at home which gave you 4 kids................Do what you can afford.

I do not have to listen to what people think of my hobbies but I will have to listen to myself. I came THIS close {             } to mameing a millipede cab. "Shock and Awe". But decided against it! I am now making a copy of the millipede cab and maming that. But now I still have  millipede sitting here that I can't afford to refurb "sniffle"

I think what really makes people just hack things up is the sheer price of monitors. I can honestly tell you that I will never be able to afford a 25 inch or in some cases 19 inch arcade monitor. I would rather spend the same money on something like oh lets see a working Arcade. Or some more wood to build another TVcade. If you do it right people just can't tell. I mean where just trying to play the games right?

I think in my second paragraph I gave Paige a heart attack

-Soul

[koolmoecraig]

I am in the process of Mameing my dedicated Q*bert. I did it the "right" way. I removed the original control panel and used another Q*bert control panel from a trashed game. All of the computer components that are installed are fastened to the the inside of the cabinet using easily removable velcro. Nothing has been drilled in or anything like that.

 I can convert it back to a normal Q*bert in about 10 minutes and you would have no idea that it had been mamed.

I think that is the only way to mame a classic game. It has to be totally reversible with no traces left.

peace