Retroblast Review of Betson Imperal Monitor

[StephenH]

http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/betson.html

Looks like a possible D9200 replacement

[whammoed]

It is indeed nice to have an alternative to the d9200 in case I would ever need it.  Options are always nice.  I do have to say though that my d9200 has been perfect so far.  Competition=good for consumer

[telengard]

It is indeed nice to have an alternative to the d9200 in case I would ever need it.  Options are always nice.  I do have to say though that my d9200 has been perfect so far.  Competition=good for consumer

If only there were a 19" version of this.  I'd buy it in a heart beat.    

The 27" is just too big to me.

[JoeB]

According to Kortek, this monitor is available in sizes from 21" to 38" and even 32" wide!  

http://www.kortek.co.kr/new/english/product/product_view.asp?idx=4&pnum=p01

Maybe once my WG 7191 dies on me, I'll order a 25" one as a replacement.  

[telengard]

According to Kortek, this monitor is available in sizes from 21" to 38" and even 32" wide!  

http://www.kortek.co.kr/new/english/product/product_view.asp?idx=4&pnum=p01

Maybe once my WG 7191 dies on me, I'll order a 25" one as a replacement.  

Dang, I don't think a 21" would fit ( I have a rotating monitor ).  If I remember correctly I have just under 23.5 inches wide to work with.  

[Patent Doc]

According to Kortek, this monitor is available in sizes from 21" to 38" and even 32" wide!

I'm not so measurements refer to the screen size as is convention, but mounting size.  I say this because the Kortek site does not list a 27" monitor (they list 25" and 29").  Moreover, Kevin says he has the KT-2914.  Using Kortek's numbering convention (assuming Kevin's correct with his model number) a 27" monitor is a 29" monitor for Kortek.  Incidently, this would mean that they do have a 19" multisync monitor.  Good news for you Telengard.

[telengard]

According to Kortek, this monitor is available in sizes from 21" to 38" and even 32" wide!

I'm not so measurements refer to the screen size as is convention, but mounting size.  I say this because the Kortek site does not list a 27" monitor (they list 25" and 29").  Moreover, Kevin says he has the KT-2914.  Using Kortek's numbering convention (assuming Kevin's correct with his model number) a 27" monitor is a 29" monitor for Kortek.  Incidently, this would mean that they do have a 19" multisync monitor.  Good news for you Telengard.

Ooh ooh, that would be most excellent!!      

My PC monitor is dying (although I will be sad to see the nice crisp vector games go)

[AlanS17]

That does indeed look like a nice monitor. Too bad it's so expensive.

[desmatic]

It'd be nice to know whether or not it stores multiple centering settings and just what frequencies it supports.  Does it support the whole range between 15.75-31.5 or just certain settings?  If it supports the whole range then it beats the d9200 hands down.  It would mean that you could have all your vertical games in vsync (.i.e. perfect emulation for all games, not just horizontal ones).  If it doesn't support at least a 1kHz at 15.75kHz and 25kHz then it's not really a contender for the d9200 which does.

I also think in fairness to wellsgardner that he should have mentioned that his d9200 broke when he was running it at 800x600 (which isn't recommended).

[Patent Doc]

I also think in fairness to wellsgardner that he should have mentioned that his d9200 broke when he was running it at 800x600 (which isn't recommended).

I don't recall Kevin ever saying this.  His monitor broke two days after he received it and WG replaced the board.  End of story.  It wasn't because he ran it at 800 x 600 as far as I can tell.  Don't give WG any excuses.  They have a great monitor, we're just learning it aint the best.

[b3atmania]

Does the monitor 25kHz? I see this as very important as its required for many 90s arcade games.

Anyone know a dealer for this monitor in the Netherlands?

[desmatic]

I also think in fairness to wellsgardner that he should have mentioned that his d9200 broke when he was running it at 800x600 (which isn't recommended).

I don't recall Kevin ever saying this.  His monitor broke two days after he received it and WG replaced the board.  End of story.  It wasn't because he ran it at 800 x 600 as far as I can tell.  Don't give WG any excuses.  They have a great monitor, we're just learning it aint the best.

In his first review he had a picture of his d9200 running at 35kHz (i.e. 800x600).  It's no longer there now, but it once was.  I remember emailing him about it, and I got the distinct impression that he didn't realize that he was overclocking the monitor, which makes me suspect he'd always run it at 800x600.  As to why it failed, who knows.  Could just as easily been a bad board. I've often wondered, though, how many failed d9200's were run at 800x600.  It's only fair to say that I don't really understand the obsession with this resolution.  It's not required for either MAME or movies.

[nilyash]

It seems that there may be two versions of the Kortek the KT2914 and the KT2914F I believe that the F is their flat screen version so be carefully to order the right one. When I talked to one of their reps he defaulted to the flat screen version.

I have asked Eurocoin in the UK for price and delivery on the KT2914 and they said they will get back to me. That was three days ago and no news yet, I'll wait.

I also just talked to Kortek in Korea and their is no logistics or stock held in Europe yet so any order will have to be processed and shipped from manufacturing. They use DHL airfreight

Niylash

[b3atmania]

I'm wondering about the memory:
- What exactly does it memorize? screen position, stretch position, V-hold, H-hold, pincushion et all? Or perhaps just a subset of those?
- How many resolutions can this monitor actually remember? When using AdvanceMAME I estimate you need memory for 200+ native resolutions.
- How does the memory compare between the D9200 and the Betson?

[bdsjake]

I've often wondered, though, how many failed d9200's were run at 800x600.  It's only fair to say that I don't really understand the obsession with this resolution.  It's not required for either MAME or movies.

Curious as to this statement.  True about MAME, but do others think that visual pinball looks better at 800x600?  I am able to move the data display out of the way of the playfiled, I think it looks better.  Also, some pc games look better at this resolution?  I just got the Dukem Nukem 2d game, I will try it at both resolutions this evening.  What about some of the other games from the other thread on "pc games to try on your cabinet", space tripper, mutant storm?  GTA?

[Chris]

Curious as to this statement.  True about MAME, but do others think that visual pinball looks better at 800x600?  I am able to move the data display out of the way of the playfiled, I think it looks better.  Also, some pc games look better at this resolution?  I just got the Dukem Nukem 2d game, I will try it at both resolutions this evening.  What about some of the other games from the other thread on "pc games to try on your cabinet", space tripper, mutant storm?  GTA?

Many PC games require 800x600 minimum.  I wouldn't run Visual Pinball at less than 1024x768.  Vector games look better at higher resolutions.  That's about it.  I run at 640x480 except for these exceptions, but I have a D9100 that'll go to 1024x768.

[desmatic]

The PC game argument is odd, but I don't play many these days, so I wouldn't really know.  I figure most games should be TV compatible, meaning 640x480, as a lot are also run on consoles.  800x600 on a tv requires stretching which most people go out of their way to avoid it if at all possible.  Same goes for the D9200 (as the tube is identical to a modern TV, meaning it only has 640 RGB triads).  Theoretically all games should have better clarity at 640x480 for these types of tubes, assuming the mode is supported.  And it won't make much of a difference for vector games, again because there's only 640 rgb triads.  So the only difference is a slightly tighter group of lines, not much percentage wise though.  From my take of it, things look a little blurry, which is what one would expect.  Certainly not smoother than 640x480.  Maybe a little brighter?  Though its been argued, I don't really see it personally.

[Chris]

The PC game argument is odd.  Most games should be TV compatible, meaning 640x480.  800x600 on a tv requires stretching which most people go out of their way to avoid it if at all possible.  Same goes for the D9200 (as the tube is identical to a modern TV, meaning it only has 640 RGB triads).  Theoretically all games should have better clarity at 640x480 for these types of tubes, assuming the mode is supported which should be the case for most games.

It seems like golf games, which are popular in cabinets, are offenders in this area.  I know PGA Championship Golf requires 800x600, and I believe Links and Tiger Woods do as well.  More recent console-style games will be designed to run well on TV's, but simulation style games that require lots of detail will be the opposite.  I guess my gaming tastes run more toward simulations and less toward console-style games, which is probably why I feel like many PC games need the higher resolutions.

--Chris

[desmatic]

The PC game argument is odd.  Most games should be TV compatible, meaning 640x480.  800x600 on a tv requires stretching which most people go out of their way to avoid it if at all possible.  Same goes for the D9200 (as the tube is identical to a modern TV, meaning it only has 640 RGB triads).  Theoretically all games should have better clarity at 640x480 for these types of tubes, assuming the mode is supported which should be the case for most games.

It seems like golf games, which are popular in cabinets, are offenders in this area.  I know PGA Championship Golf requires 800x600, and I believe Links and Tiger Woods do as well.  More recent console-style games will be designed to run well on TV's, but simulation style games that require lots of detail will be the opposite.  I guess my gaming tastes run more toward simulations and less toward console-style games, which is probably why I feel like many PC games need the higher resolutions.

--Chris

Fair enough.  I didn't know there were that many games out there requiring 800x600 or higher.  But still, one should be careful about running such modes on a 9200, at least the older models.

[telengard]

According to Kortek, this monitor is available in sizes from 21" to 38" and even 32" wide!  

http://www.kortek.co.kr/new/english/product/product_view.asp?idx=4&pnum=p01

Maybe once my WG 7191 dies on me, I'll order a 25" one as a replacement.  

Dang, I don't think a 21" would fit ( I have a rotating monitor ).  If I remember correctly I have just under 23.5 inches wide to work with.  

(Note to self: don't use a text broswer to post on BYOAC)

I called Betson and they do not carry the 19" version of this monitor, only the 27".  

Anyone have any ideas on alternate ways of possibly getting this monitor?

[telengard]

According to Kortek, this monitor is available in sizes from 21" to 38" and even 32" wide!

I'm not so measurements refer to the screen size as is convention, but mounting size.  I say this because the Kortek site does not list a 27" monitor (they list 25" and 29").  Moreover, Kevin says he has the KT-2914.  Using Kortek's numbering convention (assuming Kevin's correct with his model number) a 27" monitor is a 29" monitor for Kortek.  Incidently, this would mean that they do have a 19" multisync monitor.  Good news for you Telengard.

Seems like I'm outta luck.  I called Betson and they do not carry the 19".  

[KevSteele]

In his first review he had a picture of his d9200 running at 35kHz (i.e. 800x600).  It's no longer there now, but it once was.  I remember emailing him about it, and I got the distinct impression that he didn't realize that he was overclocking the monitor, which makes me suspect he'd always run it at 800x600.

Actually, I only ran it at 800x600 when setting up my MAME cab for the first time - WindowsXP automatically forced the display into 800x600 during the install process. I left it there to take a few snaps, then switched over to 640x480. I ran 800x600 a couple of time for tests, but never long term.

The board failed 2 weeks into ownership. I have no idea if it was connected to the 800x600 installation mode, but considering the system only ran for a couple of hours in that resolution, I doubt it.

As to some of the Betson Questions:

1. Official specs mention memory settings for 6 custom modes. I've found that I've been able to fine tweak all my AVGA-MAME games for size and it's remembered every setting.

2. The Service Manual ( http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf) lists what settings get saved on a per-mode setting, and which settings are "universal" across all the modes.

3. Another source for the Kortek Monitors in the US is the (ta-da!) Kortek USA branch:

http://www.casinotech.com/KortekHome.html

A word of warning: they are not used to dealing with consumers, but rather arcade manufacturers. Still, they probably can get you the 19" version of the Kortek Multisync.

4. The Kortek site does list all the monitors as 2" bigger than they actually are. I suspect, as was mentioned here, that they are measuring by mounting space, not tube size.

5. A video review of the Betson is now online:

http://www.retroblast.com/video.html

6. Yes, I do love this monitor. Especially now that I can use a light gun!  

Kevin

[telengard]

In his first review he had a picture of his d9200 running at 35kHz (i.e. 800x600).  It's no longer there now, but it once was.  I remember emailing him about it, and I got the distinct impression that he didn't realize that he was overclocking the monitor, which makes me suspect he'd always run it at 800x600.

Actually, I only ran it at 800x600 when setting up my MAME cab for the first time - WindowsXP automatically forced the display into 800x600 during the install process. I left it there to take a few snaps, then switched over to 640x480. I ran 800x600 a couple of time for tests, but never long term.

The board failed 2 weeks into ownership. I have no idea if it was connected to the 800x600 installation mode, but considering the system only ran for a couple of hours in that resolution, I doubt it.

As to some of the Betson Questions:

1. Official specs mention memory settings for 6 custom modes. I've found that I've been able to fine tweak all my AVGA-MAME games for size and it's remembered every setting.

2. The Service Manual ( http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf) lists what settings get saved on a per-mode setting, and which settings are "universal" across all the modes.

3. Another source for the Kortek Monitors in the US is the (ta-da!) Kortek USA branch:

http://www.casinotech.com/KortekHome.html

A word of warning: they are not used to dealing with consumers, but rather arcade manufacturers. Still, they probably can get you the 19" version of the Kortek Multisync.

4. The Kortek site does list all the monitors as 2" bigger than they actually are. I suspect, as was mentioned here, that they are measuring by mounting space, not tube size.

5. A video review of the Betson is now online:

http://www.retroblast.com/video.html

6. Yes, I do love this monitor. Especially now that I can use a light gun!  

Kevin

Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the casniotech info.  I called them and they knew was I was talking about.  It would have to be special ordered.  I'm waiting to hear back on whether or not they could do it.  I've had to call them back twice to remind them so you are definitely right about dealing w/ individuals.  This would be the 19" I've been waiting for if I could get it.  Hopefully this will work out.  They seemed a little iffy about me buying just one.  

[DYNAGOD]

"4. The Kortek site does list all the monitors as 2" bigger than they actually are. I suspect, as was mentioned here, that they are measuring by mounting space, not tube size."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

damn this still manages to confuse the hell out of me...

the review kevin made is for a 27" Multisync Arcade Monitor ..
meaning its ACTUALLY  25" inches Viewable

I have a taito egret with a nanao 29" monitor.. which has 27" viewable i believe:
meaning i would need a 31" Betson to replace that monitor correct?

[KevSteele]

"4. The Kortek site does list all the monitors as 2" bigger than they actually are. I suspect, as was mentioned here, that they are measuring by mounting space, not tube size."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

damn this still manages to confuse the hell out of me...

the review kevin made is for a 27" Multisync Arcade Monitor ..
meaning its ACTUALLY  25" inches Viewable

I have a taito egret with a nanao 29" monitor.. which has 27" viewable i believe:
meaning i would need a 31" Betson to replace that monitor correct?

We're not talking about viewable size, just tube size. Thus, a 27" tube (25" viewable) requires a 29" mounting frame. At least, that's the way I'm interpreting Kortek's weird numbering system.

If you have a 29" picture tube, I would agree that the 31" Kortek is what you want, but note that Betson would list that monitor as a 29" monitor.

Clear? Yeah...as mud.

[desmatic]

In his first review he had a picture of his d9200 running at 35kHz (i.e. 800x600).  It's no longer there now, but it once was.  I remember emailing him about it, and I got the distinct impression that he didn't realize that he was overclocking the monitor, which makes me suspect he'd always run it at 800x600.

Actually, I only ran it at 800x600 when setting up my MAME cab for the first time - WindowsXP automatically forced the display into 800x600 during the install process. I left it there to take a few snaps, then switched over to 640x480. I ran 800x600 a couple of time for tests, but never long term.

The board failed 2 weeks into ownership. I have no idea if it was connected to the 800x600 installation mode, but considering the system only ran for a couple of hours in that resolution, I doubt it.

Kevin

Fair enough.  Probably just a bad board.

Do you know what signals the betson can handle or how many modes it can store in memory?  More inportantly does the beston support the whole range listed range or is it like the d9200, which only supports 1kHz at each frequency, 15, 25, and 31 (which kinda sucks).  The whole range would mean a lot in terms of emulation capability.  Perfect emulation for all games, both vertical and horizontal.

[KevSteele]

Do you know what signals the betson can handle or how many modes it can store in memory?  More inportantly does the beston support the whole range listed range or is it like the d9200, which only supports 1kHz at each frequency, 15, 25, and 31 (which kinda sucks).  The whole range would mean a lot in terms of emulation capability.  Perfect emulation for all games, both vertical and horizontal.

See the following link for the service manual for the Betson, which lists a lot of information on what is saved with each custom mode. According to the Kortek document, six custom settings are saved, but I've yet to run into a resolution I've tried that didn't "remember" my custom tweaks.

KT-2914 Manual

http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf

Kortek Specs:

http://www.kortek.co.kr/new/english/product/product_view.asp?idx=4&pnum=p01

As to the 15/25/31Khz, the official specs are listed as 15-38Khz, no mention of "ranges" that it can grab. I certainly haven't had any problems with anything put out by the AVGA card, but I know it doesn't "do" 25Khz (yet  )

I'm willing to test a range of input frequencies, if anyone can suggest a way to do that.

Kevin

[desmatic]

Do you know what signals the betson can handle or how many modes it can store in memory?  More inportantly does the beston support the whole range listed range or is it like the d9200, which only supports 1kHz at each frequency, 15, 25, and 31 (which kinda sucks).  The whole range would mean a lot in terms of emulation capability.  Perfect emulation for all games, both vertical and horizontal.

See the following link for the service manual for the Betson, which lists a lot of information on what is saved with each custom mode. According to the Kortek document, six custom settings are saved, but I've yet to run into a resolution I've tried that didn't "remember" my custom tweaks.

KT-2914 Manual

http://www.retroblast.com/files/KT-XX14X-SM.pdf

Kortek Specs:

http://www.kortek.co.kr/new/english/product/product_view.asp?idx=4&pnum=p01

As to the 15/25/31Khz, the official specs are listed as 15-38Khz, no mention of "ranges" that it can grab. I certainly haven't had any problems with anything put out by the AVGA card, but I know it doesn't "do" 25Khz (yet  )

I'm willing to test a range of input frequencies, if anyone can suggest a way to do that.

Kevin

Do you by any chance have a trident blade t64 or an Nvidia tnt32 card?

If you do I can build a bootable CD that will allow you to test it.

[KevSteele]

I'm willing to test a range of input frequencies, if anyone can suggest a way to do that.

Kevin

Do you by any chance have a trident blade t64 or an Nvidia tnt32 card?

If you do I can build a bootable CD that will allow you to test it.

I might have a TNT2 in a box somewhere in the shop. Will that do?

Unfortunately, that's like saying I might have one somewhere on the continent. I'll take a look tonight, however, and report back.

Kevin

[desmatic]

I'm willing to test a range of input frequencies, if anyone can suggest a way to do that.

Kevin

Do you by any chance have a trident blade t64 or an Nvidia tnt32 card?

If you do I can build a bootable CD that will allow you to test it.

I might have a TNT2 in a box somewhere in the shop. Will that do?

Unfortunately, that's like saying I might have one somewhere on the continent. I'll take a look tonight, however, and report back.

Kevin

A TNT2 card should work great.  I'll try to make a cd tonight.  I'll post it on my site for download.

PART 2:

Ok, it fit on a floppy, no CD necessary.  You can download the self extracting image at

http://www.msu.edu/user/jonesdes/files/advvboot.zip

To run the disk, boot your computer with it, follow the menu to advv.exe, and then test supported modes one by one.

Start with standard modes like 15.7 @ 60Hz, 25 @ 60Hz, etc.  Then feel free to test others at any range in between.  Just to play it safe have a kill switch so that you can turn your monitor off immediately if a mode is not supported or gives you snow. All the modes listed in blue should work.  If one doesn't work, then the stated supported frequencies for the betson are wrong.

The D9200 safely handles 1kHz at 15, 25, and 31.5 kHz.  Any other frequency throws snow.

While TNT2 cards should work perfectly, if the advv.exe utlity won't launch then your card isn't supported.  Note the advvboot disk is not configured for a trident blade t64, though it will work though with any other card that is supported by advancemame.

Thanks kev.  I've got my fingers crossed.  This monitor could the bomb.

[KevSteele]

First off, an apology - with all the site problems I've had recently, testing the monitor completely fell off my radar screen.

Thanks for the test utility - I'll see what I can do this weekend, if I can track down my TNT2 (time to clean the shop, which may take the entire weekend as it is!   )

Kevin

[desmatic]

First off, an apology - with all the site problems I've had recently, testing the monitor completely fell off my radar screen.

Thanks for the test utility - I'll see what I can do this weekend, if I can track down my TNT2 (time to clean the shop, which may take the entire weekend as it is!   )

Kevin

np.  Let me know if you need any help, particularly in finding the right video card.  Worst comes to worse, I could always send you one, though I'm no longer in the states, so it would take a while.  Right now, PNY or Visiontek TNT2 cards are the absolute best supported cards.

[Hiub]

Another Viable option would be to test the monitor using Powerstrip if you are running Windows. You can program it to display any custom resolution with custom refresh rates as well,  it is a great little app. If you guys wouldn't mind telling me, would i gain anything by running 15khz refresh rate on my tv through S-Video?

Thanks, Fred.

[oven_toasted]

Had a question about the connections available on this monitor...  

In the review, a standard 15 pin VGA cable was used to connect the monitor directly to a computer.  In the PDF manual, it shows that the monitor is also capable of accepting a 5 pin or 6 pin signal, but is a little vague as to whether this requres additional parts and pieces, or if the connections are there on the board.  Are all the plugs actually present?

I'm looking into this monitor as a replacement for the 29" (27" viewable) Hitachi monitor in a Neo Geo candy cab that's currently set up to recieve it's input via an ArcadeVGA and J-Pac through the JAMMA harness.  I'd like to use the existing 6 wire hookup to the monitor so that the cabinet would still be able to use JAMMA PCBs, rather than just plugging the monitor directly into the VGA port on the computer (bypassing the JAMMA wiring entirely).

Is there any downside to using this sort of connection rather than the 15 pin cable?  Looking at the specs, it looks like it's ultimately getting the same signals to the monitor, so the functionality of the monitor should be unchanged...

Any insight would be appreciated.

--Chris

[KevSteele]

Re: The connections

The custom VGA cable ends in a special plug that attaches to a 6-pin connector (I think it was six pin - can't easily check right now). You can unplug the DB15 VGA cable and use a standard Jamma connector, I believe.

The cable is screwed into a heatsink, but can be removed if you're not using it.

Re: 25mhz testing.

Guess what - I finally found my old TNT2 video card, buried deep in a pile of old computer parts in the shop. I'll try and use it to test the Betson's performance at 25Khz weekend.

Kevin

[desmatic]

Re: The connections

The custom VGA cable ends in a special plug that attaches to a 6-pin connector (I think it was six pin - can't easily check right now). You can unplug the DB15 VGA cable and use a standard Jamma connector, I believe.

The cable is screwed into a heatsink, but can be removed if you're not using it.

Re: 25mhz testing.

Guess what - I finally found my old TNT2 video card, buried deep in a pile of old computer parts in the shop. I'll try and use it to test the Betson's performance at 25Khz weekend.

Kevin

Sounds groovy.  I'm really curious as to what it can do.

[KevSteele]

Okay, here's the test results:

Everything you flagged as a supported frequency worked fine - even the 1024x768 res.

25Khz works fine.

Unfortunately, this test screwed up Windows and my AVGA card - even though I never booted into Windows during the test or with the TNT2 card, Windows XP has lost all the AVGA resolutions except 640x480 and 800x600. Even unistalling the device and reinstalling it in the Device manager doesn't do it.

Anyone got any ideas?

Kevin

[AmericanDemon]

Go into Safe Mode.  Clear out all of your video drivers.  Then reboot to desktop and reload drivers.

[KevSteele]

Go into Safe Mode.  Clear out all of your video drivers.  Then reboot to desktop and reload drivers.

Be there, done that. Even used System Restore to backtrack to a time when things worked properly. No dice.

This is weird stuff.

[clanggedin]

I had something similiar happen to me once and I had to find the original driver CD for the graphics card and use it. It wouldn't work running updates and uninstalling the drivers in Windows. I had to use the driver cd that came with the card.

Too weird