Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: Standalone Juke Project  (Read 69014 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Standalone Juke Project
« on: June 20, 2004, 11:58:50 am »
This is my second arcade project, but the first one I

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2004, 12:00:53 pm »
Not sure why the picture I attached didn't show up.  Here's a link.

http://www.kingcupcottage.com/arcade/juke5.jpg


Or, here's the pic...
« Last Edit: July 03, 2004, 09:10:03 pm by june »

pointdablame

  • I think Drew is behind this conspiracy...
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5034
  • Last login:May 19, 2025, 06:36:30 pm
  • Saint and Woogie let me back in!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2004, 12:08:52 pm »
awesome, that looks really really great.  If you made plans for that available, I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate that.  Keep us updated.

And one more thing... mmmm  Galaga...... *drool* ;)
first off your and idiot

Man I love the internet, haha.

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2004, 12:47:51 pm »
Well, thanks for the compliment.  It took a lot of drawings on the backs of napkins and scrap paper to come up with the final design, so I

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2004, 10:45:26 pm »
Here is a new pic of our jukebox project.  I just stuck the speaker grilles on the front so you can see where they're going to go.  There's a big ole subwoofer in the bottom of the cab, but we're undecided if it sounds better coming out the back or the front.

Everything is wired up and lit except for the trackball at this point.  And there are two sets of controls so you have the option of using the trackball or the arrow keys.  Our toddler navigates it pretty easily, so I'm happy with the controls at this point.

I wish we had a nicer monitor, but we were going for the cheapest route at this point.  We may update it later.  The front section opens to allow a keyboard to slide out.  This will also let us stick CDs in the computer if we want to do that.  There will also be a USB outlet on the front to allow quick downloads of new music with a memory key.

Hope you like it so far!
June

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2004, 10:47:44 pm »
I don't know why I'm not attaching pictures properly.  I must not be reading the directions right.  Scary - to think I'm a programmer by day....aaaaah!

Here are a couple links...

http://www.kingcupcottage.com/arcade/juke11.jpg
http://www.kingcupcottage.com/arcade/juke9.jpg

June

Reattaching a pic here....

« Last Edit: July 03, 2004, 07:52:26 pm by june »

civic83

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 77
  • Last login:April 03, 2008, 08:18:03 pm
  • "If I am to be destroyed, then so shall you be"
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2004, 02:04:32 pm »
i think this looks great, i've been wanting to build something like that for a while now, I'd definately be interested in the plans.  Also, where did you get your buttons, in specific, the triangular ones?

dmsuchy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
  • Last login:December 19, 2009, 09:00:08 pm
  • I kill communist llamas for fun.
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2004, 03:44:52 pm »
Very nice, I would like to see some photos of your Galaga cab also, looks great in the back ground.

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9740
  • Last login:May 15, 2021, 05:31:18 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2004, 04:13:31 pm »
Also, where did you get your buttons, in specific, the triangular ones?
Happs makes a triangle button.  Dunno what it's specifically named, but search around there, you'll find it.

What size monitor is that in there?  After seeing your project, I liked the shape and size, but wondered how all my 15" monitors would look sitting in such a big box and how to do dual monitors, (I thought to myself, they'd look like @$$).  I REALLY like your solution and now want to start on my own, based off a Rock-ola, but same monitor/speaker solution.  GREAT/FANTASTIC/AWESOME idea...also, what size speakers are those?

The sub placement will make little to no difference unless you have some sort of port/opening for it.  Otherwise, you've just put your sub (which is usually non-directional) inside another box.  If you can, remove a panel to see what it would sound like (kinda...not a real precise method) with a port/opening.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2004, 04:19:25 pm by DrewKaree »
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

pcdoctor

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 169
  • Last login:July 21, 2014, 06:44:02 am
  • I'm a Girl Gamer!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2004, 06:00:51 pm »
June,

You go girl!
You do the computer and electrical work.
I can't wait the see the rest of this jukebox!

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2004, 06:16:14 pm »
Yep, those triangles are from Happs.  They were in the

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2004, 06:22:12 pm »
Hi pcdoctor!  It
« Last Edit: June 24, 2004, 06:28:13 pm by june »

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9740
  • Last login:May 15, 2021, 05:31:18 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2004, 08:33:20 pm »
I get to play with all these cool games, and my husband has an excuse to buy all sorts of expensive routers and table-saws and such.    ;)
errr.....umm.....will you, like, marry me or something?   ;) ;D

Good idea on the free items,  that's my kinda payment plan!  I've got SIX of those beasts sitting around!
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

DeathDealer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Last login:January 13, 2020, 01:44:29 pm
  • Hello everyone!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2004, 09:57:09 pm »
Great Job so far, I made one, I really like the design.
Please post some more pictures.

                                      Thanks

Here is a picture of mine, remember I never quite finished it, and its nothing as refine as June's, it was my first crack at "cabinet construction"
« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 12:36:44 am by DeathDealer »
Foot steps on the sand.

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2004, 10:46:02 pm »
Thanks y'all for the compliments... and the marriage proposal - har har! ;D  Since we've kinda been designing it as we go, it's encouraging to hear that it's looks okay to others so far.  I plan on getting a lot more done on Saturday, so I hope to post some more progress pics over the weekend.

June




BobbyG66

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 588
  • Last login:November 13, 2016, 11:52:09 am
  • Current project: Dodgeball
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2004, 11:35:28 am »
That looks great!

Now I want one...

Can't wait to see the finished product.
Half of the people you meet are below average.

Zathras

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
  • Last login:June 06, 2011, 01:06:02 am
  • Yeah.
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2004, 02:21:41 pm »
Looks great!  One nice thing is that it is easily recognizable as a jukebox. Even in the first pic it gives off Jukebox vibes.

I'm working on my own jukebox currently - I was thinking about getting lazy and not recessing the buttons but after seeing how they look on yours... well I've got some more work cut out for me this weekend :)  

Speaking of the buttons what are you using to power yours?  And have you tried them out lit yet?  I've heard reports that they get warm.

Also what software are you planning on running?

Thanks and keep the pictures coming!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2004, 02:22:03 pm by Zathras »
Space Warped by Someone

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2004, 04:21:08 pm »
Speaking of the buttons what are you using to power yours?  And have you tried them out lit yet?  I've heard reports that they get warm.

Also what software are you planning on running?

Hi!  I bought the illuminated pushbuttons from Happs, and a 3-way LED for the trackball.  They're just wired up to the PC's power supply.  I hadn't noticed the buttons getting warm yet, but it's only been on a couple hours at a time.  I haven't really stress tested 'em yet.  Right now, the wires are just temporarily rigged up, but that's today's project.  So, once that's done, I'll try leaving it running for several hours and let you know if they heat up at all.  I've got Mark Schwartz' Arcade Jukebox running on the PC.  I'm using a very old computer that probably couldn't handle some of the newer software.  Plus, I really liked the jukebox-y feel of this one best.   Well, I'm off to finish up some wiring.  Can't wait to hear how yours turns out, too!
June
« Last Edit: June 26, 2004, 04:30:29 pm by june »

boyowilkins

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2004, 04:52:58 pm »
Looks brilliant!!

Wonder if I could persuade the wife to let me build one of these as my next project - maybe u could talk to her for me June  :P

Keep up the Good work!!!

Are u going to paint it?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2004, 04:53:20 pm by boyowilkins »

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2004, 05:25:56 pm »
Are u going to paint it?

I'm not sure about the paint yet.  I'm really struggling with the artistic part of this.  I had a tough time finding jukebox-related side art anywhere, so I considered routering a grooved design in the side and installing a light rope.  On a test piece of wood, it looked pretty good.  You can see pics here (http://www.kingcupcottage.com/arcade/juke7.jpg) and here (http://www.kingcupcottage.com/arcade/juke4.jpg).  I'm a little worried, however, that it might look kinda cheesy.  I know a lot of old jukebox designs were a little cheesy (to me), and I could get away with it a little more than I could in my MAME cabinet, but I dunno.   I think I need some opinions from the experts here.  What do you think?  Should I go for the routered/rope light effect, or a painted design on the side?  Here's a cheap-o MSPaint concept drawing - http://www.kingcupcottage.com/arcade/jukedesign.jpg.

Any and all opinions are welcome!
June

walls83

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1146
  • Last login:July 10, 2017, 02:58:45 pm
  • beer is good
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2004, 08:56:15 pm »
why not use this kind of lighting?

I think it looks better then Light rope.

http://www.svc.com/elstrip4colors.html
"A true warrior enters the arena with all his powers at the ready." ~ Gouki

NIVO

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1256
  • Last login:March 20, 2025, 03:33:34 pm
  • danny_galaga is my mail man.
    • N.A.M.E. - arcade cabinet project
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2004, 01:03:26 am »
excellent work june, very clean and well laid out design. I hope we get to see some bubble lights brewing around that thing  ;D

Zathras

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
  • Last login:June 06, 2011, 01:06:02 am
  • Yeah.
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2004, 12:43:12 am »
Before I decided on Mickey as the theme of mine I was considering a classic looking juke all lit up and such.

The main things I were considering were PC cold cathode lights - there are some very cool ones out these days.  There are some that look a bit like bubble lights that were tempting but I was really really close to decking the thing out in "liquid neon" tubes.

This page has an animated gif of what they look like:
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=8230B

There are also multi-colored cold cathode tubes that have audio sensors and pulse/change to the music.


Keep the updates coming!

Space Warped by Someone

fredster

  • Grand Prophet of Arcadeology
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2267
  • Last login:February 16, 2019, 04:28:53 pm
  • It's all good!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2004, 10:57:40 am »
June that's a nice project.  you need lights and nice trim.  I think the routed light is a good idea, better than the side art.  Blue or red or both.

The bottom of most jukeboxes has a light in it too.  Maybe you could find an electronic circuit that's easy to make that can take a 40 watt bulb or two and make it flash with the music.

King of the Flying Monkeys from the Dark Side

Witchboard

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2002
  • Last login:January 05, 2022, 09:09:24 pm
    • Oklahoma Coin-Operated Collectors
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2004, 01:28:36 pm »
Wow, that's looking pretty nice.  Great work.  Can't wait to see the finished product.

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2004, 06:03:24 pm »
Ooooh, these are some good ideas... thanks.  

I had just decided to settle on just painting the cab, and then, if I didn't like it, I could add the lights later.  But after seeing these suggestions, I think it's time for a redesign.  Hmmm... I'm off to convince the spouse.  (I keep telling him that this is a MUCH cheaper addiction than booze or shoe shopping.....!)  :P  ;D

Thanks for all the great comments and suggestions.  This really motivates me to come up with a better end result than I could have dreamed up on my own.

DeathDealer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Last login:January 13, 2020, 01:44:29 pm
  • Hello everyone!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2004, 12:39:14 am »
The mid range speaker are behind the felt material on the upper half of the "CAB" or Jukebox.
Foot steps on the sand.

DeathDealer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Last login:January 13, 2020, 01:44:29 pm
  • Hello everyone!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2004, 12:40:44 am »
Dispite not looking so good, it has a clear and loud sound.
Foot steps on the sand.

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2004, 10:25:40 pm »
Hey DeathDealer, I like the design of your jukebox cabinet.  It's clean, and the color and shape remind me of a professional musician's sound system.  Thanks for posting the pics.

Mine should be painted over the weekend, so I plan to have more pictures after the 4th.  And Zathras, I did leave it hooked up several hours last weekend to see if the buttons would get warm.  The rectangular ones didn't, but the triangles sure did warm up.  Maybe since they're smaller, they don't disperse the heat as well??  I may try to drill some teeny holes in the underside to see if venting them helps at all.  I guess for the long run, LED lights may be better.  I'm impatient to get it done now, though, so I'm just going to stick with the bulbs that came in them for now.

June

Nannuu

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 992
  • Last login:May 23, 2022, 11:55:21 pm
  • Anytime now, I'll start my cabinet
    • Will and Liliana's Projects and Family Photos
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2004, 09:39:59 am »
You could also try sound activated EL lighting.

http://www.sunbeamtech.com/new/products/el/el%20series-el%20sound%20activated%20cables.htm

There are a lot of places that sell it.  This is just the first link I found.  That project is looking fantastic!  I would really love to build one as well.
Next I'll be on fries, and that's when the big money starts rolling in.

Daniel270

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 753
  • Last login:April 10, 2011, 12:34:14 pm
  • Older Than PONG!!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2004, 10:06:39 pm »
Something else you might want to think on...

Perhaps sideart?  Something from the '50's "Sock-Hop" style?

Just a thought...
I Haven't Lost My Mind, It's Backed Up On Disk Somewhere.

Johnny

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 70
  • Last login:Yesterday at 07:37:40 am
  • I Want My Own Coctail Cabinet!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2004, 08:42:06 pm »
Hi Guys, June and pcdoctor

If You want some nice light in the front or side, it's an easy way to do some cool effects.
I'm shure You all have seen those light tunnels where the ligts dissapear into the wall.

  It's easiest to make this when You are building Your jukebox, begause then it can be build flush with the walls.

So, Here's my best of a description:

Get hold of some of the films used to tint Your car windows because The clue here is the films. If these films are put on piece of glass and then put with the mirrored side against each other You can then look in fro either sides. Put a ramp of light between the glasses, and You have a light tunnel. ;D
Bild this into Your jukbox/Cab so that You can look in from one side, and vaiola!!

About 10 years ago, I made six like these for Youthclub's Disco.

Best Regards
Johnny
Oslo - Norway  
Johnny Andersen
 Oslo - Norway

Zathras

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 346
  • Last login:June 06, 2011, 01:06:02 am
  • Yeah.
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2004, 12:25:36 am »
Ok Johnny it took a couple of reads but I figured out what you mean... :)  Do you mean one of those mirrored reflection in reflection in reflection in reflection things so it looks like the lights continue in further and further.

That is awesome to know because lighting will definately come into play in my next cab.
Space Warped by Someone

Johnny

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 70
  • Last login:Yesterday at 07:37:40 am
  • I Want My Own Coctail Cabinet!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2004, 05:47:09 pm »
I shure do, Zathras
You know,  "A picture says a thousand words" but I can't find my pictures.

- Johnny
Johnny Andersen
 Oslo - Norway

Ghoward

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 449
  • Last login:July 09, 2021, 10:45:22 pm
  • Mame rocks!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2004, 09:39:25 pm »
I love it, now I know what I'm building next!!

Thank you .........

Gary

DeathDealer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 96
  • Last login:January 13, 2020, 01:44:29 pm
  • Hello everyone!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2004, 12:18:00 am »
Got any more pictures?????
Foot steps on the sand.

Ghoward

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 449
  • Last login:July 09, 2021, 10:45:22 pm
  • Mame rocks!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2004, 08:38:38 pm »
June,

How deep is your control panel?

Thank you

Gary

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2004, 09:08:25 pm »
Wow - thanks for all the awesome suggestions.  I just may go ahead and make that light tunnel as a separate game room decoration when the jukebox is finished, too.

Unfortunately, the rainy weather has kept us from sanding and painting the jukebox this past week, so I have no progress to report.  Perhaps our next project should be to build a garage....  ;)

So DeathDealer, I have no new pics quite yet.  However, I should have one of the marquee soon.  After seeing some of the great work that Pixelhugger has done, I contacted him about the marquee design.  I am SO psyched - he captured the feel we wanted *exactly*!  In fact, I'll probably wind up using a variation of the design for the side art as well.  So, look for some cool artwork pics shortly.  

Thanks again for the encouragement and advice.  It makes the project a lot more fun - even on the days you get rained out!
June

june

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Last login:November 09, 2010, 06:17:08 pm
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2004, 09:10:23 pm »
Hi Gary,

The control panel is 7.5" deep (by 34" long.)  You can see a better picture of the layout here http://www.kingcupcottage.com/arcade/juke3.jpg.  If it helps to give you an idea of dimensions, those arrow buttons are 1.75."

I hope that helps.  If you need any additional measurements, let me know.  I'm dying to work on it some more and I can't, so I feel better at least MEASURING it!   :D
June

Ghoward

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 449
  • Last login:July 09, 2021, 10:45:22 pm
  • Mame rocks!!
Re:Standalone Juke Project
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2004, 10:05:42 pm »
Thank you June thats all I need, I'm working on plans of my own right now. I just needed an idea of how deep the control panel need to be for a Jukebox.

Thanks again

Gary.