Industrial Monitors via MidwestDigital (sans flames)

[rampy]

I thought I'd start a new thread for those of use bidding/bid/won an industrial/kisok xga/svga monitor from midwest_digital

Old Thread

After I recieve my KDS 21" I'll post a review up on the appropriate forum (the monitor one)... but I thought if people had more to say about buying these monitors you could post it in this thread... I guess or something =P

rampy

[Yarb]

I was surprised to find I won one of the KDS 21" monitors as well, as I have not yet found a satisfactory cab for my project you can expect me to be "watching over your shoulder" to see how these work.

[rampy]

sooo... my KDS 21" came today... I fooled around with it for a little bit.  It uses a standard VGA cable, that wasn't included (I didn't expect it to be....)... It was pretty much plug n' play... it's just a big PC monitor in a HEAVY industrial grame instead of a plastic form factor for a desktop monitor...  

I threw a handful of resolutions at it no problem...  

One small potential problem is that since the touch screen is removed, I'm not sure how to access the "on screen" adjustable parameters (i.e. brightness, degauss, positioning, etc...)  as it has no visible external knobs/buttons to twiddle... oh well...  looks good from my initial testing so far... (although for a purists I'm sure a true arcade monitor would be preferrable)

It looks like if I was brave.. i could dismantle the big metal casings and have an open air type monitor much like the 18" one that was also available...  but I'm hesitant to mess with it... (at least initially)

Anyone else get theirs?  

rampy

[Yarb]

Just got my tracking number, looks like mine is hanging out in Ohio at the moment  

Mike

Ouch, worse yet the I-PAC-4 I ordered on the 25th is still goofing off in London (Wish I was goofing off in London)

[mAdSmuRf]

Got my 2 today... I am pleased to see they survived the trip here considering Midwest Micro's idea of safe shipping on a monitor means throwing some peanuts at the bottom of a box and a couple layers of bubble wrap.  They both are actually in surprisingly great condition.  The picture on both of them looks very sharp no matter what resolution up to 1600x1200 I throw at it as well.  There is a tiny bit of burn in from whatever they had running on them before in a Kiosk.  But you don't notice at all during game play.  Actually, you don't even notice at all if you just throw up a spiffy background in Windows.

As for any settings on the monitor itself... they have to be there, It would not make sence to not have them there.  They are just not on the outside.  I could be wrong though, so don't quote me on that one.  I will crack mine open in the next couple days when I free up some time to see.  The main thing I want to do, is get the picture to fill the screen.  there are black borders here and there and the picture is not centered, so I will see... If anyone else got one of the 21" KDS Pixel Touch monitors from them as well, and takes them apart to find these settings or not find them before I do.... please let me know as well as everyone else.  Thank you much.

mS

[rampy]

Madsmurf... let me know how you make out and take pictures if at all possible...  

I've found that  the 21" is gonna be a tight squeeze into my mid sized upright cabinet...  debating on wether to remove the casing or not...  looks like it would sorta slide out easy... but who  knows...

I've got some pictures of it running a few games, that I need to get off the cheezy digital camera and touch up... and upload... i'll post a link eventually =P

rampy

[MameFan]

Well, I too got mine today. However, I'm NOT as happy as you, or that I should be.   Here's what I wrote to Midwest Micro. See the attached pictures to understand my dismay

1) There is a "divot" in the screen face. Approximately the size of your small finger's fingernail (1/3" x 1/2"). The top anti-glare surface is scraped off and it's a "layered" gouge into the glass horizontally across the face at a tangent to it. (E.g. like someone slid a chisel parallel to the face and broke out a small piece).  Even though it's not deep, it affects the optics in the area, leaving a large black "ridge" on the right side of the divot and white spots in the divot.

2) There is burn-in of a previous image on the screen. It appears to show the letters "IPM" or "TPM" in large circles around each letter towards the top right of the screen and a darker top middle of the monitor (other graphics) than the bottom.

Again, these flaws can be easily seen with the tube on or off. The pictures I took were of both states:
http://www.cableone.net/billfrandsen/monitor/monitor.html

Of course their auction stated "Item is in EXCELLENT condition. Full working order showing no physical blemishes."

And of course, I paid the MOST of anyone over ALL 20+ of their auctions of this monitor over the last 4 weeks.

Needless to say, I'm very upset.  Waiting to hear back what they reply to the above.  You others.... count yourself lucky yours arrived in working condition.

Oh, and here is my free gift to you:  To adjust the width/height/contrast/brightness... On the LEFT side of the monitor there is a diamond of 4 larger circles. In the circles there are 4 little tactile buttons. Press the Left one to bring up the menu, the top one is adjust -, bottom is adjust +, right one is exit, or Degauss if the menu isn't up.

[mAdSmuRf]

Sorry to here about your luck there MameFan... If anything, I would just go for the full refund through Midwest since the things were insured.  Or if you are going for replacement, you could smack some sence into them and let them know to use something other than bubble wrap on a NICE monitor.

That's kinda funny about all the settings being right there on the side with the LED, I just noticed that this morning before I took it apart.  But I wanted to take it apart anyways, to get the 10 handfulls of Peanuts out of the inside of the case that creaped in the back of the unit.

Note To rampy:  Just incase you would like to know... when I just took off the top of the Monitor, there is a whole different inner casing that looks to be just as secure and maybe even more ventilated than the outer one used as well.  it seems to bring the width down to 19" rather than 21" wide... hope that helps you out in squeezing that puppy into yout cab.

I tell you what though... this thing has more options on the Side for playing with the picture than most AVG PC monitors.... and once I had it setup to fill the screen, the picture was nice and big.  I am kinda rethinking my plans for these monitors, as playing Quake III @ 1600x1200 @ 20" Viewable to test it looked purty darn nice.

mS

[rampy]

Well, I too got mine today. However, I'm NOT as happy as you, or that I should be.   Here's what I wrote to Midwest Micro. See the attached pictures to understand my dismay

Of course their auction stated "Item is in EXCELLENT condition. Full working order showing no physical blemishes."Needless to say, I'm very upset.  Waiting to hear back what they reply to the above.  You others.... count yourself lucky yours arrived in working condition.

Oh, and here is my free gift to you:  To adjust the width/height/contrast/brightness... On the LEFT side of the monitor there is a diamond of 4 larger circles. In the circles there are 4 little tactile buttons. Press the Left one to bring up the menu, the top one is adjust -, bottom is adjust +, right one is exit, or Degauss if the menu isn't up.

Hey Mamefan,

Sorry that the monitor didn't meet your expectations upon arrival... I was super nervous when mine arrived and scrambled to hook it up right away to verify that it worked.  

Sounds like you contacted midwest_digital.... You have a legitimate beef about the divot in the screen (and the other stuff)... hope they come back with a good resolution.... If you look at their ebay ratings the only negative mark they have is  

###Radiohead03 (21)  Jul-22-02 07:05:02 PDT 2038303766 S
Complaint : Auction said item was "Excellent" condition actually was POOR  
Response by midwest_digital - Offered to replace customers purchase, customer declined offer.  
####

So... that might be the recourse you get... I would GUESS the only rub would be who pays for shipping of another 90lb behemoth. Good luck with that.

thanks for the infor on the adjustment buttons, I totally missed it.  I did see the LED on the side and didn't investigate any closer.

Madsmurf ->thanks for the info about the outer casing... when I'm ready to mount the monitor maybe I'll break the seal and take a peak =P

and finally a question for the other KDS 21"ers out there  (maybe we should move this to the  monitors forum eventually, eh?)  are any of you planning on using Advance Mame with this?  If so please post your settings.

Thanks,

Rampy

[MameFan]

Rampy:

Yes, I have contacted them stating what I stated here. I was calm and factual, and only said I was very disappointed.   I have received one reply from them looking to work something out. I replied and hopefully we have begun the process.

You're exactly right about shipping this bohemeth.  Ideally, I'd ship this one back and they pay for return shipping, and they ship a new one meeting the original description.  However, that costs them $100 ++   In addition FedEx likely wont accept the same box to ship back in as all the corners are "soft" since no rigid packing was used. (Costing me a new box and packing materials)  And obiously it doesn't make sense for me to pay return shipping due to the difference in representation of the item.

However, I hold out hope for this to be reolved fairly to both myself and their company. We will see what response I receive, and post in kind here.

Re: using with Advanced Mame

If you're referring to using it for special "authentic arcade" video modes, you wont be able to do that. This monitor wont scan down to 15.75 KHz. It only goes to 31.5 I believe (basic plain vanilla VGA).  

The good thing is the monitor seems to remember width/height and positions for EVERY mode I threw at it, from 640x480x60Hz to 1280x1024x125 Hz.  I simply expanded the screeen to each mode Mame32 thru out to fill the screen perfectly, and adjusting one never undid another.  This is very similar to my KDS Trinitron "avitron" monitor on my main computer--same exact menu in fact.

[rampy]

Rampy:
Re: using with Advanced Mame

If you're referring to using it for special "authentic arcade" video modes, you wont be able to do that. This monitor wont scan down to 15.75 KHz. It only goes to 31.5 I believe (basic plain vanilla VGA).  

The good thing is the monitor seems to remember width/height and positions for EVERY mode I threw at it, from 640x480x60Hz to 1280x1024x125 Hz.  I simply expanded the screeen to each mode Mame32 thru out to fill the screen perfectly, and adjusting one never undid another.  This is very similar to my KDS Trinitron "avitron" monitor on my main computer--same exact menu in fact.

Thanks, i'm clear on the NOT an arcade monitor... I'm hoping to use AdvanceMame/menu in the following capacity:  It's my understanding that if you put in the refresh rates etc its automatic feature is very good at getting the best possible resolution/config for a given game for your specific monitors specs.

good to know about the screen size "memory" feature...

Good luck again with Midwest digital and your return...

rampy

[Yarb]

Looks like its my lucky day. My monitor came in a box of bubble wrap (Sans peanuts) and seems to work just fine, no burn in or damage to the screen is apparent  

Mike

[MameFan]

Well my damaged one was shipped back today. Midwest is footing the bill. Attempted to work out some compensation so they wouldn't have to foot $100 in shipping charges, but no go.

I repacked it using 2 boxes (one inside the other) and 2" thick dense "oily" stryofoam. I have 3" in front of the tube and 2" around the sides, and 3" on the top and bottom of the box.   At least it will get back to them without the box collapsing like mine was when it came from them with just 2 layers of bubble wrap around the sides!  

Thank goodness my FedEx office has nice, pleasant and helpful counter personell (compared to the "other" big shipper) , as Midwest gave me the wrong account # to charge it to, and FedEx quickly found the right one without giving me the third degree.

Anyway, It will likely be 2 weeks before I get the replacement.  I hope they actually examine it and plug it in to ensure it works and no burn in like mine was. If I get back the same or worse, I'll be even more upset.. It took 30+ minutes to repack "correctly" in new, uncollapsed boxes, plus 40 minute drive across town and back to FedEx to ship. (My return package was 99 pounds, I believe the original one to me weighed in at 92 pounds)

I will let you all know when the replacement arrives.. I HOPE I can only be as happy as the rest of you with yours.

[rampy]

Hey Mamefan,

I was doing some play testing on my 21" monitor on the bench and noticed that mine too had a "chip" in the tint screen (for the lack of a better term) it's pretty small, but it's there... and I also noticed I've got some burn in, but it doesn't seem to affect gameplay...

*Shrug* just thought that'd make you feel a little bit better... although i still feel like it was a good deal and is going to work out good for my particualr situation...

hope your replacement one comes soon...

rampy

[MameFan]

Bad news:
They don't have any without flaws to replace my damaged (screen divot + burn-in) 21" monitor with.

I'm trying to make the final decision if I want to risk them shipping another one with their judgement call of "looks better" or go with what they're trying to push--refund.

I get the impresison they dont want to take the time to check out any others, other than glance at the screens on a couple and might be feeling that they're not going to satisfy me.  

Am I out of line expecting it to not have burn in or the divot--(see my pictures I posted before)---Especially since the auction said "Excellent condition-no physical blemishes"!!??

Thing that sucks is it will cost $500+shipping to get another 21" monitor (albiet new), but not in open frame style, making it much harder to quickly bolt in 8 bolts to fasten it to my cabinet.  Or stick with my 19" and figure out how to mount it bare.

Decisions decisions.. Any suggestions from those of you who GOT good ones?

To their credit they are offering a refund... I MUCH rather would have what was advertized however... Excellent condition/no blemishes. But is it worth the risk on another?

[This is why I would never consider those 27" ones... this one cost [them] enough to ship back already!]

[SNAAAKE]

i say get refund...then try to get any other NEW monitor.

its very annoying when monitors have problem.besides i saw some 19" hybrid vga arcade monitor..try to get the eygo one.its like $75 now..act fast..not my auction but i own the same monitor.

[rampy]

That stinks MAMEFAN,  that after all that trouble you'll still probably end up dissapointed... albeit you'll have your money back.

Do they still have any VGA 18" WG's around that are in better shape or would that not suit your needs?

I like mine, but it was a tight fit into my cabinet (even when I removed the outer metal shell..) and it pokes out a wee bit of my cab... (I have a medium sized cabinet... approx 23" inside width.

I've got a dumb question for you MAMEFAN (or other KDS 21" winners)  does yours have scan lines?  I thought they didn't... but mine has scan lines now... I'm not sure if I messed it up a little jostling it to fit into the cabinet, or the crappy 4 meg trident card I ahve is acting up... or if it was always like that...   it could also be the new angle it's sitting at... *shrug*    

It's a tough call overall though... it'll be hard to get another 21"er for 100 plus beans...   but what is it that you want out of your cabinet?  with all the other care you've probably put into your cabinet, would someone else's idea of good enough be good enough?  

For me, with either the 21"er or a puny 14" due to budget constraints, I'd be inclined to take a chance in my situation (if I were in your shoes, sorta)  but I might want to see if they'd give me one of the "new"/better shape 18" open frames and some compensation (cheaper shipping/cheaper item) and a player to be named later =P

knowwhatiamsaying?

If you have a 19" maybe the 21" isn't so important and that 100 plus bucks could go to a happs track ball or tron spinner or something  *shrug*

I can't make my mind up either... but what good would a 100lb monitor with some of the screen tint off gonna do you... unless you use smoke tinted bezel glass...  

good luck!

rampy

[Yarb]

I guess I got really lucky on these and I feel bad for all the problems people have been having. I haven't noticed any scan lines on mine but I only hooked it up for a few hours to test

Yarb

[MameFan]

All:

Please understand I am not expecting "perfect"... (especially for the price) A tiny scratch here, a scuff there that isn't too visible playing black background classic 80's games is not a problem.  Nor would have been "slight" burn in.  But when you can see it through windows and what-not, it just wasn't acceptable.

I wish it wasn't a 99 pound bohemeth.

But I worry that they won't pack it well on the return and then it will get damaged, and then I'm totally out of luck as they said they would not do any further returns (understandable, but now that increases the risk factor significantly).

It's 60/40 right now.. 60% of me wants the refund, walk away, and put it towards something else.  40% says, ah, what the hell, get it, try it, and if still don't like it, I'm SURE someone will pay what I paid for it locally and then I'm still not out anything, or only a few bucks.  PERHAPS.  Though browsing the auction sites shows normal 21" PC monitors under $100 (+$60 shipping) for used ones too. But the open frame, for cabinet use *would have been* perfect.

But the risk it it arriving in worse and/or damaged condition, then it's a piece of $102 glass and metal paper weight. (a darn good one at that)... That's what's holding me back.



Then, Rampy explains his scanline problems...   I read the other post a while back.

Me thinks (my limited monitor knowledge) that you either:
1) Simply jostled a connection and it is quicly fixable

2) You caused a particle to fall towards the gun in the tube (there are always particles like phosphor and metal from the shadow mask in there that can come off over time) and now have shorted one of the guns to the heating elements.  (Search on the net for SCI.ELECTRONICS FAQ and "H-K" or "Heater-Cathode Short".)

Basically it's keeping the gun "on" by shorting it to the heater wire that keeps it warm ready to "shoot". Therefore if the signal is turned off to the gun, the short causes it to still glow low, thus allowing you to see all the horizontal and vertical retraces the gun does across the screen.  If you search that SCI.ELECTRONICS FAQ you will see this sounds most like your problem, if memory serves.

This is fixable in a couple ways... You can put the tube face down and lightly tap the back, or CAREFULLY tap around the neck, but be warned it could break VERY easily! Then the particle will fall from the gun and towards the shadow mask (possibly causing a "dead" pixel to show up).   Or, you can take it in and have them drive a ton of extra voltage through the heater coil (normally < 10 volts if I remember) to "burn" the particle off.  But this can ruin the heater or gun or screen face too... it's a last resort.


So, if you're having that problem and others had divots (though no one else said anything about burn-in did they?) That makes me want a replacement less.  A bad 21" for $102 is not worth it.


I guess the 19" will have to do, which sucks because I MAINLY will play vertical games, and they are only 13.5" on the horizontal screen. (And horizontals are only 18" since it's a computer monitor not TV tube, so again, smaller than "real arcade)...

It all sucks.. I had my heart set on a 20" visible screen!!!!!!!        

[rampy]

Then, Rampy explains his scanline problems...   I read the other post a while back.
So, if you're having that problem and others had divots (though no one else said anything about burn-in did they?)

Thanks for the technical advice... although I think my retrace line issue is all set now (jostled connection, jostled itself back)...  (I'm not confusing scanlines and visible retrace lines... my latest question was about scanlines)

I'm pretty emberrassed to say the scan lines I was seeing were because DOS mame's default is scanlines  and I thought the default was noscanlines...  although it kinda looks like scanlines in windows, which doesn't make any sense...  so my monitor is definitely playable, but it turns out I might be crazy/mildly retarded =P

Mine does have some slight burn in, but I never notice it during game play and only if I really look in windows...   I also have a small chip in the film that I can live with...

I guess the 19" will have to do, which sucks because I MAINLY will play vertical games, and they are only 13.5" on the horizontal screen. (And horizontals are only 18" since it's a computer monitor not TV tube, so again, smaller than "real arcade)...

It all sucks.. I had my heart set on a 20" visible screen!!!!!!!        

FWIW, most people who end up using even smaller PC monitors claim that once you get into the game you don't notice the screen size so much...    I think the bezel, bezel glass, etc help in that regard.

Sorry to hear that everything isn't gonna work out with the 21" er...

rampy

[Chris]

It's 60/40 right now.. 60% of me wants the refund, walk away, and put it towards something else.  40% says, ah, what the hell, get it, try it, and if still don't like it, I'm SURE someone will pay what I paid for it locally and then I'm still not out anything, or only a few bucks.  

So?  How did it turn out?  And what is "local" to you?

[MameFan]

I ended up opting for the refund, they were basically strongly suggesting that.  It was just easier that way.

I got the refund check 3 days ago in fact.

Local is near-Minneapolis for me.