BYOAC Tokens!!! Now Accepting Pre-Orders.

[Santoro]

UPDATE 5-19-04
The token design has been 95% completed and pre-orders are being taken. Please check it out.

Original Message: -----------------------------------------------
I found this discussed last year, but it seems nothing happened.  Let's try again!

Not sure if it is financially feasible, but would it not be super cool to have BYOAC or BYOC/MAME tokens?  We have enough gifted artists here that we could probably wind up with a killer design. (I am partial to Pixelhuggers atomic logo -only of course if he consented)

If there were a ton of interest I'd be willing to front this.  Please Indicate how much you might pay, max.  It seems to me it might be $20-25 for 200 tokens.



{edited for spelling and to fix URLS}

[DaveMMR]

I found this discussed last year, but it seems nothing happened.  Let's try again!

Not sure if it is finacially feasible, but would it not be super cool to have BYOAC or BYOC/MAME tokens?  We have enough gifted artists here that we could probably wind up with a killer design. (I am partial to Pixelhuggers atomic logo)

If there were a ton of interest I'd be willing to front this.  Please Indicate how much you might pay, max.  It seems to me it might be $20-25 for 200 tokens.

I was going to buy tokens anyway so I'd buy these.  I'm partial to the Atomic Logo as well.  And I'd pay the $20 - $25 dollars.

[Apollo]

Yeah I'd be in for 200.

[patrickl]

Sound like a cool idea. Especially if enough people would join in to lower the price to the range you suggested.

Won't it be hard/expensive to find coin mechs for these tokens though?

[Aceldamor]

I would buy some for sure...200 sounds cool.  


My concern is also getting the coin mechs for theese...

[Apollo]

Can't they just have the same profile asa quarter? Then you don't need a different coin mech.

[Santoro]

I think one of these would do it, but someone please speak up if it is not that simple.

http://www.happcontrols.com/gaming/coin_comp/42028300.htm

[Santoro]

Can't they just have the same profile asa quarter? Then you don't need a different coin mech.

No they won't make 'em that way because they could be used as slugs.  I think many quarter mechs can be adjusted to take .984 tokens though.  See the link above.

[TheGatesofBill]

I'd buy some if they fit in quarter mechs, because I don't really want to get mine replaced.

[patrickl]

There seems to be a bug in that page. It lists the .882 coin mech twice (and not the .984 mech).

[DaveMMR]

I think one of these would do it, but someone please speak up if it is not that simple.

http://www.happcontrols.com/gaming/coin_comp/42028300.htm

I was going to suggest that - the token has to be .984 am I correct?  Because I wanted a coin box that took quarters AND tokens (so that I can slap my excess spare quaters in there but have tokens for guests).

[AmericanDemon]

I'm in for 200 tokens

[mahuti]

I'm in.

[mtalkington]

Count me in for 200 also.

[Magnet_Eye]

If i can either

A) make my coin mechs work
or
B) get the right coin mechs with little hassle/cost

then you can COUNT ME IN!

 

[pointdablame]

I would be in if there were a way to get quarter sized ones, or if my coin mechs can be adjusted.  I wouldn't be too keen on having to get new mechs though.

I'll have to see if mine can be adjusted, if so I'm in.

[Minwah]

Wouldn't this mean you can't charge your guests?

 

[patrickl]

You can sell the tokens

[Santoro]

You can sell the tokens

Yeah - special sale price 10 for 3$

I see Saint put this thread on the front page.  The pressure is on guys!

[dmsuchy]

I would buy 200 for sure!

[Kremmit]

Yes indeedy, I'll take a batch too!

I had looked into getting custom tokens made specifically for my home arcade, but it just wasn't something I could afford by myself.  But if we all went in on the deal, MAME tokens would be the next best thing. 

I can't wait for the art competition for these! 

-Kremmit

[Kremmit]

Hey, I said I couldn't wait, but..

Seriously, once there are enough committed  buyers, shouldn't there be a new thread for art ideas?  That way, everybody that's ponying up the dough for these can have a say in what they'll look like.  And if we do it later, we'll have more artists cranking out more designs to vote on!  

That said, how 'bout a picture of ...

Naa, if I'm gonna jump in here and ask to wait, I oughtta wait myself.

...

...

Dangit, I don't wanna wait.  Mabye we should start the new thread now, but not settle on a final design for either side for quite a while.  

Whaddaya think?

-Kremmit

[Generic Eric]

I'd be in
<edit>
I voted for the two sides, because I would be willing to pay for the two sides.

But I would buy the single side if that was the only option.

Either way I'm in.  
</edit>

[Spaced Invader]

I'd buy 'em...

[DrewKaree]

I'm in like Flynn.  Gimme.  

What about the "Arcade Evolution" image for the other side?  Just throwing an idea out there, dunno if everyone would want a new design, or go with something already out there to cut down on "decision time".  

Another idea would be to slap the "BYOAC" design from the T-shirt on the back.  

I think it sounds like a consensus for Pixel's atomic design for one side, but chime in if you're AGAINST that idea.

[ani]

I'm down.

[Santoro]

These will have to have a generic something on the other side or else we will need to pay another 200$ for a second die.

The stock designs are here:
 
http://www.hoffmanmint.com/stndrdesign.pdf

t50 and t50a fit the bill.

Might as well ask, would the group pay $35 for 200 with Both Sides Customized?

[mahuti]

I like the BYOAC logo for the other side

[AmericanDemon]

$35.00 for total custom tokens.  Hell yeah man.  I'm in.

[DaveMMR]

$35.00 for total custom tokens.  Hell yeah man.  I'm in.

Awww not fair.  You added another choice after I voted.  

I'd pony up $35 for both sides custom.

[bioart]

I'd be in for at least 200, the bigger size the better, but I'll settle for low .800's if we have to.

Oh, and both sides custom would be cool, I like the atom logo.

Art

[mmmPeanutButter]

I was just crunching some numbers off of http://www.tokensdirect.com/pricing.html.

$76 /1000 tokens (when you buy 5000) +custom die costs.

$380 (for 5000 tokens) + $390 custom die charge = $770

=$0.154 each therefore, 200 = $30.80

Now, once the dies are made, the cost for each drops to $0.076 each.

If somebody was to step up to the plate (I was seriously thinking about it but I'm in Canada) and organize it, I think you could do quite well with the undertaking.  

Lets say you put the money up for the dies yourself and sell the sets for $25 (for now on, "set" will refer to 200 pieces).  You would need to sell 40 sets to break even and you would make $9.80 on each set after that.

Too much risk for you?

Sell the sets for $28.  You would now need to sell only 30 sets to break even.  After that, you would make $13.80 for every set purchased.

Not greedy enough for you...

Charge $182 per set.  You would only need to sell 2 sets to break even!!  For each set after that, you would pocket $166.80!!  WOW!!
(diamond encrusted cabinet... here we come! (I'll use it to propose to my girlfriend))  



Now, for my little number-crunching, I didn't include the cost of shipping the bulk tokens.  I would assume that all the set prices would be +shipping.

If you see any flaws in my reasoning, let me know...

Oh, one more thing...  think about the $28/set.  Does BYOAC have a budget to set it up?  The $13.80 profit on subsequet sets could go back to the website.  Then the website would own the dies and the token offering could be on-going.  Just a thought.

[DrewKaree]

I don't wanna speak for everyone, but I'm down for both sides custom only if it will work in my current coin mech.  

Doesn't make much sense to me to pay that much for custom stuff that'll cost you even more money to alter to get it to work!  

That being said, I want both sides custom!  LOL

[crashwg]

I'm in for the double sided ones.  Of course that will depend on the the designs.  It seems unanimous on the atom-like mame logo but what about the other side?

I think we need to start the design process now.  That way people will know exactly what they'll be paying for...

[AlexC]

I'm in for 200 as well, only concern is the mechs for me..

[dag2000]

Couldn't both sides have the same design?  I really like pixel hugger's atom logo but think there should only be one electron in each orbit.  Two looks wrong (just my opinion).

I do like some of the Hoffman standard designs; T50 and T59 and T95 remind me of arcade tokens of my youth. The T-Rex and "Beer Token" would be funny and the liberty head would be ok in a faux - quarter sort of way.

in terms of a custom design for the obverse, As much as I love BYOAC (I just bought saint's book today!) I'd rather not have it  emblazoned on the tokens.  

Perhaps the web address (www.arcadecontrols.com) in smaller letterrs along the edge, like the "in god we trust" on a coin?  The design could be a classic arcade character, like pac man, or a space invader.

Does hoffman have any other generic designs?

[dag2000]

Ooooh! What about a player one silhouette guy for the back?

[Magnet_Eye]

I think one of the generic sides plus the BYOAC side would be sufficient.

Arcades usually have the "No Cash Value" on one side and their logo on the other.

I must say the idea for the atomic logo is cool, but I think it is too detailed for a token. I think if he can re-do it we'd be better off. Something a bit more simplistic with the same theme.

just my $.02

[wj2k3]

I am in for a set of double side tokens.

I like the atomic logo but would like to see some other peoples designs defore the final decision was made.  I have seen a lot of talent on this board.

I think it would be cool if the other side said "Game Not Over" in the spirit of MAME keeping the classics alive and well.

I know I am relatively new and unknown around here, but I would be willing to handle the first run if need be.  After the first run and the initial start up costs were covered, it could all be turned over to the BYOAC.

Whatever design is decided on, I would much rather have a custom token that meant a little something versus a bag of generic tokens.  So, I really hope this happens.

Just my $0.02 too.

-wj2k3

[Kremmit]

I'd definately pony up for both sides.  C'mon, if you're gonna blow $25 for tokens (when you already have quarters and a credit button available ) then why not cough up the extra $10 to make 'em look as cool as possible?  Besides, the stock designs at http://www.hoffmanmint.com/stndrdesign.pdf look more LAME than M.A.M.E.  

That said, the Atomic logo is pretty cool.  I do wonder if the Hoffman Mint people can properly render it, though.  I mean, it's got some faint stuff, and some 3d stuff in it.  That'd have to be some quality minting, like you see on a quarter.  Tokens I've seen don't have that kind of definition, they're more like solid line art.  Although now that I take another look at their flyer, that Liberty Head logo (#T85) looks to be the right kind of work.

For the other side, how 'bout a joystick?  An upright cabinet?  

For folks worried about making them work with your coin mechs:  Many old coin mechs can be adjusted to use tokens- for example:  http://www.happcontrols.com/faqs/faq_coin-mechs.html - http://www.happcontrols.com/images/pdf/roll-down-acceptor-adjustment.pdf  Even if yours doesn't, I saw some posts in the old token thread http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=12543;start=msg107292#msg107292 from people that were hacking their mechs to take any kind of coin, including tokens.  

Far as the money goes, nobody has to front for this.  All we have to do is get a BYOAC member that folks will trust (Saint?) to set up a Paypal account for the token buy.  That way we can all send in our $$ when we happen to have it available, instead of expecting everybody to pay up at the same time- which will never happen.  As soon as enough of us pay, we can send the order off.  That way nobody gets left holding the bag on a $770.00 load of tokens.

-Kremmit

[Matt, GoC]

Well, in the spirit of going overboard, I'm in for whatever sided coins.  I think using the MAME logo might not sit the best with the creator of MAME, but who knows?  Besides, not everyone uses just MAME on their cabs, anyway.  I think a joystick on one side (easily do-able), with "BYOAC Member" on the other side would be nice.  Since the members would be the ones ponying up for the coins, it should make mention of that fact.  I'd love to see that phrase embossed onto the coins that go into my BYOAC-inspired and influenced dream cab.  How does everyone feel about that?
-Apoc

[mp2526]

I'm getting in on this a little late, but I had put a little research in on this in the original thread and had planned to make an order but, as usual things kept coming up with a higher priority.

As was stated before, most quarter mechs will adjust somewhat to fit a .984 size token with about 90-95% reliablility.  I have several brand new coin mechs that I have successfully adjusted to accept .984 tokens that I would be willing to sell for $6 a piece plus shipping (and 8.25% tax if in Texas).  If anyone is interested I'll send you a pic.

I would be willing to pony up the die costs if after this first run I could "license" the art work and sell future tokens at a moderate profit.  I'm not looking for exclusive use of any artwork, just permission from whoever created it to use it to create future runs for these tokens with enough profit to make it worth my while (but not so much as to gouge you or future BYOACers.

Unfortunately, I don't have the cash flow to go ahead and make an entire run by myself, but would be willing to use my Paypal account as a holding for any money collected, as was suggested before.  And, pay the entire die fee (both sides), so that would make this initial order fairly cheap for you guys.

I can understand any trepidation anyone might have about sending in money, but I have sold a few items to several BYOACers that I believe will attest in my trust worthiness.  If everyone is in agreement to this, I'll step up and take on the duty of tracking how many people want in on this and of placing the order.

I have to run right now, but wanted to get this post out real quick, but someone can do the math and figure out what the price would be per 100 tokens  (now that the ~$400 die costs aren't an issue, don't forget to factor in the initial large quantity shipping though)

EDIT:  I'll try and remember to contact Hoffman Mint tomorrow or in the next few days to see what the shipping costs would be for an order.  And I'll verify the cost of the tokens, as the costs qouted in the original thread were given to me a little less than a year ago.

[mahuti]

[Aceldamor]

ok.....I'll change my vote to 35 for 2 custom sides if it will fit my quarter mechs...

Not too demanding on what is on which side,  I like the idea of the player 1 logo on one side with "Game Not Over" or "BYOAC" allong the perimiter of the coin and mabye a cabinet or a classic character on the other.

I really like the idea of the give some back to BYOAC thing...mabye something like Donate a percentage of profits to Saint..he has been responsible for this community....

[mahuti]

You can give back to Saint by clicking on his ads & buying his book.

[MikeAlex]

Yep. I'm in. 2 custom sides.

[Santoro]

Unfortunately, I don't have the cash flow to go ahead and make an entire run by myself, but would be willing to use my Paypal account as a holding for any money collected, as was suggested before.  And, pay the entire die fee (both sides), so that would make this initial order fairly cheap for you guys.

I think we have it under control.  Thanks anyway.

[Magnet_Eye]

DO NOT use that atomic MAME logo.. we need a simpler BYOAC logo.

i agree that MAME should NOT be on the tokens at all. Maby people build cabinets or controls that do not include MAME...

Adding MAME top the token would be leaving out some people.

new logo contest is needed!

[microwrx]

I'm up for the 2 sided tokens (and shipping to Australia, damn that's gonna be heavy).

[Lilwolf]

Can the sides be really custom?

I would like to see a BYOAC around the edge, and a logo in the middle.... and on the back game not over.

I would be up for some.

btw, its pretty easy to hack your coin mechs.  I hacked mine to take ANY coin.  Great piggy bank!  (the trick to hacking a coin mech is to remove all the items in the middle, and add some cut in 1/2 straws to make all coints no matter the size to get down the proper slot.)

[Santoro]

OK here is the deal.  I think the response to this thread has shown that we can move most of a 5000 lot of tokens.

It's a go!

As soon as I speak to the Mint and get the format they require the artwork in, I will start a new thread to come up with the Art.  

I was thinking on my way into work this morning, that 1) I agree the atomic logo is too complex, 2) putting MAME on the tokens might draw unwanted attention to the MAME team, and 3) people might want to use these for pinballs.

So here is my proposal.  While it would be really cool to have customization on both sides, I think that for the sake of realism and cost control, we should have one 'stock' side like pictured below, and one custom side that we decide in a new "contest" thread.  If we don't mention MAME, It might be hard to fill two sides. {edit:this is just a suggestion.  The group is paying here, so we all get to decide.}
{{edit again, It seems like the counts for double sided customization are very strong.  Let's go with that.}}

As for the finances, I am not out to rake in the cash from this, but I don't want to take a bath either.  For the sake of full disclosure, this buy will go on a credit card, so I want to cover my costs.  I would probably tack 2 bucks onto each order above cost to cover my credit card interest and numerous trips to the post office on the part of my lovely wife.  I think this is entirely fair.  I will post the cost information as soon as I get it so that there is full transparency.

My next proposal might be more controversial and I won't do it if I get clear feedback from the group that it is not acceptable.  I was thinking of buying a lot of 10000.  Because I am taking a significant financial risk if the second 5000 doesn't sell, I would still charge the 5000 lot rate to help mitigate the risk, though I would still lose a bunch if they didn't go. I f they do sell I would make a small profit.  Does anyone have huge objections to this? I think in the end it will benefit the group by having a supply available for newcomers in the future.

[mmmPeanutButter]

Isn't safe to say that a majority of the people here use MAME?  Or am I just way off?

[Santoro]

Isn't safe to say that a majority of the people here use MAME?

Definitely, but many of the same people have pinball machines.  I am flexible, I was just making a suggestion.  If it gets into a heavy debate, maybe we will need to vote.

[Teknique]

Im in for a double-sided set.

Tek

[MinerAl]

In.

I'd rather it be a BYOAC than a MAME design.  How about the one from the hats?

[mp2526]

Unfortunately, I don't have the cash flow to go ahead and make an entire run by myself, but would be willing to use my Paypal account as a holding for any money collected, as was suggested before.  And, pay the entire die fee (both sides), so that would make this initial order fairly cheap for you guys.

I think we have it under control.  Thanks anyway.

OK, no problem, wasn't trying to steal your thunder, just trying to make good on the original thread!

[patrickl]

In.

I'd rather it be a BYOAC than a MAME design.  How about the one from the hats?

What does the hat look like (guess I missed that one)? Have a link for me (I really can't seem to find anything anymore with the search function of this forum)

I'd rather have something generic on the coins rather than MAME too. Allthough something like a Pac Man character would be fun too  

I don't see what pinball machines have to do with this though. Why would a BYOAC logo work better for a pinball machine than a MAME logo?

[Mr. Dude]

I voted for 2 custom sides.  If they work with my quarter coin mechs I would love to purchase some!

[SirPeale]

Why would there be an objection to your making a profit?  

Seriously, if you do the legwork, and bust your hump, and foot the cash, you damn well *better* expect to make a return on your investment.  Do you think I sell locks and disconnects for what I paid for them?

[DarkKobold]

It may just be me, but I think if you are going to put MAME on the token, it should at least be the real MAME logo, i.e. , the italized font. No offense to pixelhuggers, but it just doesn't look like MAME

[AmericanDemon]

Whoa whoa whoa Peale....  what are you saying here?  Your not the kind of guy who likes to lose his skin for others?  

The reason the BYOAC design is better for pinballs.....  you don't use MAME on a Pinball Machine.  MAME has no place in it.  

[patrickl]

The reason the BYOAC design is better for pinballs.....  you don't use MAME on a Pinball Machine.  MAME has no place in it.  

Yet you do use BYOAC on your pinball machine?

[AmericanDemon]

BYOAC is a gathering.  Its a community of gamers and these tokens represent people who are a part of this community to play games.  If you have a pinball machine then its part of your game room, its part of our community.  Get it? Got it? Good!  

[Santoro]

Why would there be an objection to your making a profit?  

Seriously, if you do the legwork, and bust your hump, and foot the cash, you damn well *better* expect to make a return on your investment.  Do you think I sell locks and disconnects for what I paid for them?

I thought about not mentioning it, but since this is a community effort to come up with a cool product I wanted to be up front about it.  It's a little different from the locks scenario.

[Santoro]

Anyone with more knowledge than me about the MAME license want to take the task of researching if there is a problem with using The Logo?

Come to think of it, Kelsey, you out there?  Did this cause you any problem with the engraved Spinner knobs?


{wouldn't be a Santoro post without spelling corrections!}

[Tilzs]

They sell cocktail "MAME" overlays so I can't see that doing a few tokens is really going to make anyone upset.

If you are going to do 2 sides, I'd suggest something that is really custom, meaning not just take a pacman logo or a player one logo. I think the cost of the token should be worth what one is paying for it. I mean I can go buy any old generic tokens off ebay for much cheaper.

For the record I like MAME on one side and BYOAC on the other. I dont' see why there is such a big deal about putting MAME on a token. The majority of the people on the board have a mame machine anyhow. From a marketing point of view, I think that if you ordered a lot of tokens, you'd have a much easier time selling them (on ebay or whatnot) with a MAME logo on it than with something more generic.

[Stingray]

I'm totally interested in getting some of these. Without even seeing any preliminary designs, I know that the members here will come up with something worth buying. I would greatly prefer two sided custom and and am willing to pay extra for it. Also I have no problem with replacing my mechs if needed. I don't understand what everyone's hangup about replacing their mechs is. They're cheap enough and take all of about 10 seconds to swap out.

-S

[patrickl]

BYOAC is a gathering.  Its a community of gamers and these tokens represent people who are a part of this community to play games.  If you have a pinball machine then its part of your game room, its part of our community.  Get it? Got it? Good!  

So you mean they are part of BYOAC and have most likely built a MAME machine too? Yes I got it   er ... oh ... no I don't ... I guess  

[mp2526]

Anyone with more knowledge than me about the MAME license want to take the task of researching if there is a problem with using The Logo?

Come to think of it, Kelsey, you out there?  Did this cause you any problem with the engraved Spinner knobs?


{wouldn't be a Santoro post without spelling corrections!}

Technically you should get permission from the MAME website guy.  He came up with the design.  And on his site he actually states that you can use the logo for personal reasons, but he requires permission if you are going to make money off it.  Yes there are probably tons of people out there who didn't get permission and you could probably get away with out getting it, but...

I actually went as far as trying to contact the guy when I was looking to produce tokens, but he would never respond to any of my emails.

[AmericanDemon]

BYOAC is a gathering.  Its a community of gamers and these tokens represent people who are a part of this community to play games.  If you have a pinball machine then its part of your game room, its part of our community.  Get it? Got it? Good!  

So you mean they are part of BYOAC and have most likely built a MAME machine too? Yes I got it   er ... oh ... no I don't ... I guess  

You so crazy.    Exactly or something like it.  Custom!

[DrewKaree]

Santoro, I would have no objections to your "run of 10,000" idea since you're putting the wheels in motion and (hopefully) bringing this to fruition.  

I see and understand the logic behind NOT using MAME on the tokens.  This is, after all, BYOArcadeControls, not BYOMameMachine.  That is a point well taken.  

Your idea for artwork submissions is a good one, as more folks may/might find out about this and thus ensure more sales, perhaps even making 'em cheaper.  

I don't yet know how you propose to have funds submitted to you, BUT.... what about setting something up now and also start artwork submissions.  That way, when the consensus is reached on the design, you'll be able to turn this out quickly, making everyone on all ends happy, and you'll have a better idea of whether or not you will be able to sell the OTHER 5,000.  I'd hate to have you eat the cost, and don't mind that you'd make a profit.    Actually DOING something has costs, be it mental work or physical work, and you have every right to charge for your efforts, after all, none of us wanting to buy 'em from ya have done anything other than say "yeah, I'd like some-o-dat".

[DrewKaree]

....btw, its pretty easy to hack your coin mechs.  I hacked mine to take ANY coin...(the trick to hacking a coin mech is to remove all the items in the middle, and add some cut in 1/2 straws to make all coints no matter the size to get down the proper slot.)

Please, for myself and anyone else concerned with this issue, explain more in depth, or with pictures, so that it can ease our minds and resolve this part of the token size problem.  

I don't mean to take this OT, but the size seems to be the only "I dunno" in anyone's mind, and your explanation of the solution be greatly appreciated  

[jcoleman]

Hey folks...the token size issue needs some consideration.  I personally have .900" token mechs, this apparently being the most popular size for tokens.  What are the options?

Coleman,
who already has about 500 tokens, and whose wife will kill him if he buys 200 more just because they have a nice logo

[mp2526]

The problem with explaining how to hack a coin mech, is there are so many out there.  I typically attack the problem by taking the size token I am aiming to use and run it through the mech several times being careful to watch where it gets stuck.  Sometimes there are screws that will allow for an adjustment here and there, sometimes it requires you to bend some metal or shave some plastic to get the coin to work.  Sometimes, no matter how much you work at it, some mechs just don't hack easily.

I might try to get a basic tutotial up on the web if I get some free time this week.


And on the note of .900 tokens being more popular, that may be true, but they aren't more popular than quarter mechs, which in my opinion are easier to hack for the .984 token.

[Psychosylph]

I would be interested in some, either one or two sided.  Would really like to see "Game Not Over" on them, though...

[Santoro]

OK here' s the deal.  I need to go with Tokensdirect because they take AMEX Blue. I spoke to them and here is the 5000 lot price calculation:

2 custom dies @ $195 - $390
5000 Tokens @ $69 per thousand - $345  ($69 is the rate from Hoffmanmint - Tokensdirect was a lot more.)
Shipping & handling- $90
   Total from TokensDirect: $825US
5000 Tokens /200 per lot = 25 lots
$825/25 lots = 33
$33 + $2 to cover credit card interest, packing, etc.  

Total price, $35 plus shipping.

I started a new thread in the artwork forum for the design and also linked to it in the first post of this thread.

[SirPeale]

The MAME logo doesn't have anything to do with the MAME project, interestingly enough.  It was created (by a woman!) by Exodus3D (don't know what her real name is).  She's stated that she doesn't want the logo used for a commercial project, but small runs of stuff (T-Shirts, stuff like this) don't apply.

Do a Google for her, you should find her page.

Edit: I just did, and found it, but there's not much there.

[Stingray]

I think this would qualify as a small run of stuff. Honestly you see the MAME logo everywhere. I can't imagine that anyone would have a problem with it used on this project.

FWIW I prefer Pixelhugger's logo. I'm pretty sure he'd be willing to modify it to better suit use on a token. Has anyone approched him about this yet?

-S

[mp2526]

The MAME logo doesn't have anything to do with the MAME project, interestingly enough.  It was created (by a woman!) by Exodus3D (don't know what her real name is).  She's stated that she doesn't want the logo used for a commercial project, but small runs of stuff (T-Shirts, stuff like this) don't apply.

Do a Google for her, you should find her page.

Edit: I just did, and found it, but there's not much there.

You are correct, but I was referring to this page where they state the following

http://www.mame.net/features.html

The usage is free for non-commercial purposes (such as websites), for any commercial purpose (includes use in magazines), please ask a permission from the webmaster.

I tried to contact the webmaster but got no response.

Stingray, I agree this would probably qualify for a small run, but if you wanted to continually run these tokens  and make a profit off them, then you might piss someone off, or might not.

[Santoro]

In case anyone missed my edit above, I started a new thread in the artwork forum for the design and also linked to it in the first post of this thread. The thread has been stickied.

[BASSOFeeSH]

Any idea how much shipping would cost?

[Santoro]

I can't get specific shipping pricing until I get and weigh the tokens, but this thread should help you get an approximate estimate:

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=18919

The .984" tokens will weigh a little more.  My Zip Code is 07920.

[mp2526]

Yeah, you can pretty much figure 200 tokens will weigh just under 3 lbs, maybe slightly more depending on what they are made out of.

[BASSOFeeSH]

Ok, that's not that bad.  Thanks

[Ovalblue]

Im in for at least 200 of the 2 side tokens... if it will work with my .25 coin mech's

Great idea BTW.

-Aki

[bigdady92]

count me in for a set. I willl have to figure out how to get them to play in my coin slot tho.

[Calawala]

Count me in for 200 two-sided customized coins as well.

As for artwork, I'll post on the artwork thread linked at the start.

- Calawala

[DPsx7]

Totally new here, but this idea seemed interesting and I thought I'd post. As long as I can use them along with my rather large stash of quarters (I just toss my quarters from pocket change into my machine), I think they'd be pretty cool.

Are the prices set, or would there be any deals if we bought a lot (whether one person or all of us)? I might even try to create a graphic or two if I can come up with any good ideas.

[Pixelhugger]

I'm in for a set of double sided too, provided the final design is cool.

[MrBond]

This is a great idea!  How cool would it be having a pale of tokens next to the machine for guests- it makes the experience realistic without someone having to caugh up quarters.  If I can hack my mechs/buy cheap new ones, I'd seriously consider getting some of these.  

I'd REALLY like "GAME NOT OVER" somewhere on it in the spirit of building your own arcade controls/MAME.

[SirPoonga]

Im in for at least 200 of the 2 side tokens... if it will work with my .25 coin mech's

Great idea BTW.

-Aki

Not going to happen.  Too much legal issue there.

[Madman]

I am in for 200-400!!!

[Matt, GoC]

I still think that MAME on the coin isn't the best idea.  Granted, while many people have MAME on their cabs, many also have Daphne, Impact, Modeler, Nebula, Kawaks, etc. on there, too.  They're all great emulators, so why should they be excluded?  I say we make no mention of any emulator, but instead theme it as sort of a tribute to Saint's BYOAC site, which without it, none of these discussions would have existed and I doubt many cabs would ever have been built.  I don't feel like plastering MAME logos over my cab when it's finally done, because it's not JUST for MAME, but anything I consider fun and worthwhile.
I say it should include the phrase "In Saint we trust" or something around the outside edge of at least one side.

[PedroSilva]

Hi,

Two questions:

- Is it easy (and free of costs) to adapt the coin doors, let's say ... you let one for coins and change the other for tokens?
- Do they ship to Portugal  (It's in Europe, for those asking   ) ?

Thanks

[FloLob]

Germany needs those tokens, too.

I am in for 200 ! (hoping the shipping-costs won't ruin me  )

[patrickl]

I was wondering about euro coin mechs too. As seen on Happ controls there are $.25 / .984"coin mechs, but is there one which will allow some euro coin combined with a .984" token? Or is it really just simply a matter of putting in a few straws to make the coin mech accept any coin?

For shipping costs the other token thread Santoro mentioned has an international shipping calculator. I'm not really sure which method of shipping to use. Shipping of 3 pounds to the Netherlands goes from $5 to $53 (I assume it should be one of the "parcel" types and these average around $18 to $20)

[Santoro]

I am pretty sure that any given coin mech will only be able to accomodate one single token or coin type at a time, unless you were to remove or disable all of the parts that verify the coin and allow it to accept any coin.  Then it would become more of a 'chute.'

[PedroSilva]

Actually the idea was to have two ... one for the coins and another for the tokens ... since from what I've seen in mame, it doesn't mather wich coin button you use, you can always start player on or two ... so you can use tokens for the "family" and coins for the "friends" ...  

[Chris]

Actually the idea was to have two ... one for the coins and another for the tokens ... since from what I've seen in mame, it doesn't mather wich coin button you use, you can always start player on or two ... so you can use tokens for the "family" and coins for the "friends" ...  

That depends on the game; games such as Gauntlet treat the slots differently.

[GadgetGeek]

Looking at the artwork thread, these are going to be way cool.  Is there any chance that maybe you'll allow very small lot sales of these?  Like 10 or less?  Reason...I don't really have a need for 200 tokens, but assuming a 2 sided design, I'd love to take two of these and frame them for display.  I guess I could get ambitious, pick up 200, build 100 frames and then resell them, but I've got two small kids so I'm not that ambitious.

[Santoro]

Is there any chance that maybe you'll allow very small lot sales of these?  Like 10 or less?

I hear you..... I would not rule it out, but I will probably focus on the bulk sales first, then offer smaller lots if I had extras.  The pricing for 10 or so couldn't be be 1/20th of the 200 price because of all the overhead of processing the order.  I would probably want five or six bucks just for having to deal with it.

I will give it some more thought though. If anyone else is interested please speak up.

[Zathras]

If the design has any variation of Pixelhugger's atomic logo on it I will definately be in for a set or two

[Thenasty]

for those of you who are buying and your thinking that you need to change your COIN MECH (unless it is a Quarter Size tokens), check this thread.

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=19200

This MECH will accept anything that fits in your COIN ENTRY.

[DPsx7]

Exactly how much different are these specific tokens from quarters? Weight? Size? Thickness? I've seen all sorts of tokens before, some of which seem pretty close to normal change, and those might work almost the same. I have over $100 in quarters I think, and want the ability to use both coins (like everyone else here), but without having to convert to all tokens.

[mp2526]

Exactly how much different are these specific tokens from quarters? Weight? Size? Thickness? I've seen all sorts of tokens before, some of which seem pretty close to normal change, and those might work almost the same. I have over $100 in quarters I think, and want the ability to use both coins (like everyone else here), but without having to convert to all tokens.

I quarter is ~.955 inches (24.26 mm) in diameter and 1.75 mm thick.

I assume that what is being ordered from tokens direct are the brass tokens, which are 0.984 (25 mm) in diameter and 1.5 mm thick.

They are oh so slightly larger than a quarter.  Large enough they won't pass as quarters through most quarter coin mechs, but not so large you couldn't take a quarter coin mech and bend it and adjust it a bit to accept both quarters and tokens with, what I consider, an acceptable amount of rejects.

I weighed a couple of quarters and .984 brass tokens on my gram scale, and they weighed almost identical.  However, these are not token direct tokens, but I can't imagine them being that different.

[allroy1975]

well, the subject says "it's a go!" but I don't really see in the thread where to order, or that any artwork decisions have been finalized.  
I got my hopes up......is it "a GO!"?

maybe I'm missing something, but I'll watch the thread and when it is "a GO!" count me in.  

Alllroy

[Santoro]

well, the subject says "it's a go!" but I don't really see in the thread where to order, or that any artwork decisions have been finalized.  
I got my hopes up......is it "a GO!"?

maybe I'm missing something, but I'll watch the thread and when it is "a GO!" count me in.  

I only meant that, yes, we are going to do this.  For a while the thread was deciding if there was demand.  Look for ordering info in the next day or so.

[allroy1975]

Look for ordering info in the next day or so.

w00t

Allroy

[DPsx7]

I quarter is ~.955 inches (24.26 mm) in diameter and 1.75 mm thick.

I assume that what is being ordered from tokens direct are the brass tokens, which are 0.984 (25 mm) in diameter and 1.5 mm thick.

They are oh so slightly larger than a quarter.  Large enough they won't pass as quarters through most quarter coin mechs, but not so large you couldn't take a quarter coin mech and bend it and adjust it a bit to accept both quarters and tokens with, what I consider, an acceptable amount of rejects.

I weighed a couple of quarters and .984 brass tokens on my gram scale, and they weighed almost identical.  However, these are not token direct tokens, but I can't imagine them being that different.

Sounds cool to me. All I need to do is widen the acceptor a little then. As long as it'll work the same, meaning it'll still sort the coins (to a point) without being a plain chute. It may sound dumb, but I'd kinda like to keep the noise of a coin dropping through the mech... Thanks for the info.

[DeathDealer]

Sounds good, count me in!

[Santoro]

See the first post of this thread for the link, I am taking pre-orders now.

[DPsx7]

Aw crap, that sucks... I don't have a checking account... Only a card.

[allroy1975]

well, what is the final design?
maybe add that to the first post in this thread?  

Allroy

[Santoro]

I started pre-orders because a lot of people indicated that they would buy in the original thread and we are getting close to a final design in the Artwork thread.  

I will leave pre-ordering open for a week after it is finalized.  There is no rush to order.

[SirPeale]

Aw crap, that sucks... I don't have a checking account... Only a card.

Then how do you pay off the card?

[JustMichael]

With a money order perhaps?  

[TheGatesofBill]

I'm still a bit confused, how hard will it for me to get my quarter mechs to accept these. And if I do, will it still accept quarters?

[Santoro]

I would probably ask in a new thread on the main Forum.

Doh.  I am losing track of which thread I am in.  Sorry.

[AmericanDemon]

I'm still a bit confused, how hard will it for me to get my quarter mechs to accept these. And if I do, will it still accept quarters?

It should be fairly simple honestly.  You just need to play with it and losen or tighten a few screws.  The size difference will be negligible.  You may have quarters or the tokens rejected every so often, but its a small price to pay for the custom tokens!

[DPsx7]

Aw crap, that sucks... I don't have a checking account... Only a card.

Then how do you pay off the card?

I just do it when I'm depositing paychecks. Some pays the bill, then the rest into the account. Besides, I think using a card is easier, faster, and probably safer in most cases. The only prob here is that Paypal has to pull some dumbassed scam and charge for accounts that have card abilities.

If the fee was less than $1 or so, I'd just pay for the charge in order to use my card. But I dunno how it works, so I'll just wait 'till later to order one or two sets.

[Chris]

well, what is the final design?
maybe add that to the first post in this thread?  

Allroy

It's still being finalized, but right now these should look pretty close to the final design.

EDIT: To see the proposed designs, see the design thread in the Artwork forum.

[patrickl]

There is not gonna be a vote anymore?

[Chris]

I could be understanding wrong, but I thought at this point we were just voting on details, like stippling and text.  But for organizational sake, if you have questions on voting they probably should be brought up in the design thread.

Since I don't know for sure, though, I'll pull the images from this thread.  Sorry for the confusion...

[Santoro]

The voting on how to proceed is 2 to 1 in favor of waiting till Monday to let people propose alternate designs, and I am going to go with that.

The design above is the clear favorite so far, but who knows, Frosty or someone else may come up with a killer design over the weekend.  If that happens we will vote.

[Silverwind]

I would pay $35 for 200 dobule sided  

[Santoro]

Just in case anyone has been living under a rock (or not checking the Artwork and Buy/Sell/Trade forums,) the token design has been 95% completed and pre-orders are being taken.

I will post this information in the very first message of this thread also incase folks aren't inclined to read all 4 pages.

[hulkster]

id buy them, but they wont work with my happ coin mechs.  i know about the optical hack and all that, but i have yet to be convinced they will positively work....and that its easy to hack the mechs.

[Santoro]

id buy them, but they wont work with my happ coin mechs.  i know about the optical hack and all that, but i have yet to be convinced they will positively work....and that its easy to hack the mechs.

I can't say anything to promise, but if you look in the preorder thread there is a link to a document that describes how to adjust Happ quarter mechs to work with other tokens.

But if you are really that queasy about it, you should probably wait until a few folks have actually done it, then order.  There will probably still be some available a few weeks after we ship the initial batch of tokens out.  We might be sold out of brass by then though.

[mp2526]

id buy them, but they wont work with my happ coin mechs.  i know about the optical hack and all that, but i have yet to be convinced they will positively work....and that its easy to hack the mechs.

Hulkster,

Remind me which coin mechs came with the door I sold you.  Are they Happs coin mechs (actually produced by Industrias-Lorenzo), if so they will have an IL on the side?  Or do they have a WG (For Wells Gardner)?  If they are the Happs coin mechs, I'm about to put some pics up on my web site that will show how I "adjusted" a similar mech to accept .984 tokens.  When I get it up, I'll post here.  If it's a WG brand coin mech, I'll test one of mine at home tonight, but I believe all it will take for the WG mech is a screw adjustment.

[hulkster]

id buy them, but they wont work with my happ coin mechs.  i know about the optical hack and all that, but i have yet to be convinced they will positively work....and that its easy to hack the mechs.

Hulkster,

Remind me which coin mechs came with the door I sold you.  Are they Happs coin mechs (actually produced by Industrias-Lorenzo), if so they will have an IL on the side?  Or do they have a WG (For Wells Gardner)?  If they are the Happs coin mechs, I'm about to put some pics up on my web site that will show how I "adjusted" a similar mech to accept .984 tokens.  When I get it up, I'll post here.  If it's a WG brand coin mech, I'll test one of mine at home tonight, but I believe all it will take for the WG mech is a screw adjustment.

well im at work so i cant check the door right now, but i do still have the link with pics that you sent me before i bought it!  www.miavio.com/images/CoinDoors.zip
i bought the "new" door from you, and there are about 5 pics in that zip file that you sent me a long time ago.  good thing i havent deleted my messages by now.  anyway, look at those pics and tell me which door it is.

[mp2526]

Right, you got the only secure door I had for sale.  I have sold so many I forget who has what.  It looks from the pics that it came with Happ (IL) coin mechs.

Here is a quick tutorial that I whipped up explaining what is needed to make these mechs accept 0.984" tokens.

http://www.miavio.com/HappILMech.htm

I have done this to one of my coin doors and it has about a 90-95% success rate of accepting tokens, which is about what alot of old arcades are like for accepting quarters

The tokens I used to test this are from a used batch of 1000 0.984" tokens I got off of ebay.  I wouldn't expect that the BYOAC tokens should be much different and should work.  My suggestion is to use those BYOAC tokens as your test token when making the adjustment so that the mech will more likely accept the tokens.

If anyone has any questions let me know and I'll try to clarify anything.

[hulkster]

thanks for the tutorial!  this will work for the tokens, but will it work for all other coins?  i.e. nickels, dimes, pennies, etc.??  i know santoro's mechs will accept a crap load (and thats a lot) of different coins....will this hack do the same thing for smaller sizes?

[Santoro]

thanks for the tutorial!  this will work for the tokens, but will it work for all other coins?  i.e. nickels, dimes, pennies, etc.??  i know santoro's mechs will accept a crap load (and thats a lot) of different coins....will this hack do the same thing for smaller sizes?

I don't have mechs - you mean TheNasty?

[hulkster]

ha!  yeah, sorry....so many names in my head.  nasty's mechs!  didnt mean to dis you man.

[mp2526]

thanks for the tutorial!  this will work for the tokens, but will it work for all other coins?  i.e. nickels, dimes, pennies, etc.??  i know santoro's mechs will accept a crap load (and thats a lot) of different coins....will this hack do the same thing for smaller sizes?

No, unfortunately this just adjusts them to accept 0.984" tokens and quarters.  All smaller coins fall through the cradle and will be rejected.

[Santoro]

I didn't feel dissed!

[hulkster]

okay, but i can replace my mechs with nastys mechs without trouble?  installing and working i mean.

[mp2526]

They will fit your coin door.  As far as them working and how relaible they will work, I'll leave that question up to Nasty, but they look reliable.