Looking for ideas... T-stick, external switch

[crashwg]

Here's the thing, I'm making a mini-galaga, that will mostly be often used by children, and explaining that you have to pull up on the stick and rotate it all the time is not appealing to me so I want to re-locate the switch on the T-Stick (not Plus) to the front of the CP.

I've attached a picture to give a general idea of what I'm looking to accomplish, which is basically a mechanical dohicky that will directly control the switch on t-stick, be "low-profile" and not take too much work.

[Tiger-Heli]

Here's the thing, I'm making a mini-galaga, that will mostly be often used by children, and explaining that you have to pull up on the stick and rotate it all the time is not appealing to me so I want to re-locate the switch on the T-Stick (not Plus) to the front of the CP.

I've attached a picture to give a general idea of what I'm looking to accomplish, which is basically a mechanical dohicky that will directly control the switch on t-stick, be "low-profile" and not take too much work.

Someone did this a while back, but they had the stick rotated 90 degrees left from your drawing, and mounted a rod to the T-Stick going to the front of the panel with a knob on the end.  Pulling the knob out put you in 4-way and pushing it in put you in 8-way.

There's also the Prodigy joystick from www.groovygamegear.com, which would be similar to what you initially described with no rework.

I plan to use prodigies and have a graphic display in my frontend to show whether the stick should be in 4-way or 8-way mode.

[maraxle]

One thing I considered was a set of buttons that ran a little motor that would rotate the restrictor plate for you.  You would need some way of making it stop at the appropriate point, though (and that was beyond my electronic understanding without more research than I have time for).

Those Omni-Sticks might be a good option.  Just keep in mind that they have a 5" mounting plate around them.  I'm not sure how "mini" your mini-Galaga is, or if the plate would be a problem.

[Tiger-Heli]

One thing I considered was a set of buttons that ran a little motor that would rotate the restrictor plate for you.  You would need some way of making it stop at the appropriate point, though (and that was beyond my electronic understanding without more research than I have time for).

You could probably do this with the type of motors that they use for switch machines for model railroads, I'm not sure of the precise term, but the motors turn slightly and then stop turning when they meet a resistance.

Just a thought.

[MinerAl]

You could do it with 10 speed bicycle type gear shifter cables and levers.  Then you could put the lever pretty much wherever you want.  

[Stingray]

I'll throw in a vote for the Omnistick Prodigy. I've got one and the 4 way/ 8 way switch works brilliantly. There's no need to re-invent the wheel here.

-S

[patrickl]

Another option would be to connect two rods. One on the left side and one on the right side. One would then be for 4-way and the other for 8-way. You could even mount the stick a bit higher up then (with longer rods).

Would the kids even notice that they were playing a 4-way game with an 8-way stick though?

About the prodigy, does it come with a proper handle yet? The plastic "eurostyle" handle I saw on it before looks very un-Galaga if you ask me. That and the fact that I didn't feel like putting a handle (moving along an arc) through the top of my CP cover made me opt for the T-Stick Plus.

Actually, I had some kids over (age about 5 or 6 years) a few days ago and they were playing with the my T-Stick Plus even before it is mounted! Apparently they found the switching mechanism interesting    They had no trouble switching it over.

If there are different people behind the cab then you might have to explain it  over and over again yes. Allthough I think you would have to explain anyway, whatever switching option you choose.

[Tiger-Heli]

About the prodigy, does it come with a proper handle yet? The plastic "eurostyle" handle I saw on it before looks very un-Galaga if you ask me.

The Retro-stick (name?) version has a ball-top.

[patrickl]

About the prodigy, does it come with a proper handle yet? The plastic "eurostyle" handle I saw on it before looks very un-Galaga if you ask me.

The Retro-stick (name?) version has a ball-top.

I have to admit I've never been able to find anything on that site (with all the non-functional buttons and stuff), but even if you say it must be there, I still cannot seem to find it.

[Tiger-Heli]

About the prodigy, does it come with a proper handle yet? The plastic "eurostyle" handle I saw on it before looks very un-Galaga if you ask me.

The Retro-stick (name?) version has a ball-top.

I have to admit I've never been able to find anything on that site (with all the non-functional buttons and stuff), but even if you say it must be there, I still cannot seem to find it.

http://www.groovygamegear.com/cgi/surfshop/shop.cgi?ud=RTFMMzE5WjBQWCUlJSUlJTEwNzk5NzQ1MzQA&storeid=1&cols=1&categories=0015&&c=detail.htm&itemid=A0PRODRETRO

[Stingray]

Mine has the "Euro" style handle. I was initially unsure about this, since I've never used one before. After using it a bit it's quickly becoming my favorite handle shape as far as usability goes.

-S

[Jakobud]

You know, if the kids this thing is for are so young that they can't grasp the concept on how to change a T-Stick by pulling it up and rotating, I am sort of wondering if they are truely going to be able to grasp the difference between a 4way joy and an 8 way joy... I'd consider this if I were you.  And if the kids are truely that young, they might not be able to feel or tell the difference between a 4 and 8 way joystick when they are playing, in which case you could just put in an 8 way and be done with it. The kids will never know the difference.  Sounds like this age of kids probably don't even know that there ARE different types of joysticks...

[Nailz]

You know, if the kids this thing is for are so young that they can't grasp the concept on how to change a T-Stick by pulling it up and rotating, I am sort of wondering if they are truely going to be able to grasp the difference between a 4way joy and an 8 way joy... I'd consider this if I were you.  And if the kids are truely that young, they might not be able to feel or tell the difference between a 4 and 8 way joystick when they are playing, in which case you could just put in an 8 way and be done with it. The kids will never know the difference.  Sounds like this age of kids probably don't even know that there ARE different types of joysticks...

I'd have to agree with Jakobud, I'll go one further and make the bet that most adults couldn't tell the difference between a 4 and 8 way either......

[froggerman]

Well I can only speak for myself but I notice that I am using an 8-way joystick when I am playing Pac-Man or Tutankam. I do even worse than I nomally do. I have ordered a 2/4/8-way joystick so hopefully I will notice the difference when it is set to 4-way mode.

[Minwah]

Well I can only speak for myself but I notice that I am using an 8-way joystick when I am playing Pac-Man or Tutankam. I do even worse than I nomally do. I have ordered a 2/4/8-way joystick so hopefully I will notice the difference when it is set to 4-way mode.

You will notice the difference.  I played with my J-Stiks in 4-way mode for the first time the other day - did great in PacMan for a change

I think an 8-way would be fine for the kids to play Galaga.  Granted they will probably have a harder time playing PacMan etc. with an 8-way.  I agree with Jakobud to an extent tho, how are the kids even going to know when to switch the stick?

[RandyT]

I have to admit I've never been able to find anything on that site (with all the non-functional buttons and stuff), but even if you say it must be there, I still cannot seem to find it.

I guess I put too much faith in people recognizing the universal symbol of the almighty shopping cart

It's on every page, and says "Click here to shop" in big letters when the cursor gets anywhere near it it, yet people still fail to find it for some reason (I'm not being sarcastic, BTW, this really seems to be the case.)

Anyway, I realize there is an issue there, and the site will be undergoing a re-design in a bit.

And to keep this on-topic..... why do you want to frustrate the poor little kids by forcing them to play a 4-way game with an 8-way stick?  Trust me, they will be able to tell and you'll need to answer them when they ask why the "stupid yellow thing went this way when I told it to go that way"  

BTW, has anyone done a good "side-by-side" comparison between the OMNI-Stiks and the T-Stick?  When I first introduced the OMNI's on the site, OSCAR (and others) chimed in with fairly negative comments about the the somewhat shorter throw of the stick (which I personally like) relative to the standard HAPP variety.    Now I see much to do about the T-Stick, which from what I have heard, has a considerably shorter throw than even the OMNI's and requires much more force to actuate.

What gives?  

RandyT

[Stingray]

FWIW the Omnistick Prodigy has quickly become my favorite stick. Not just because of the easy top of the panel switching, but IMO the throw is just right as is the amount of force required to actuate it. They're a little on the expensive side, but well worth the money.

-S

[patrickl]

I have to admit I've never been able to find anything on that site (with all the non-functional buttons and stuff), but even if you say it must be there, I still cannot seem to find it.

I guess I put too much faith in people recognizing the universal symbol of the almighty shopping cart

It's on every page, and says "Click here to shop" in big letters when the cursor gets anywhere near it it, yet people still fail to find it for some reason (I'm not being sarcastic, BTW, this really seems to be the case.)

I click on one of the the Omnistick buttons or the Prodigy button and then I end up on a page with info about a certain stick. I can't tell if they are different products, but I guess they must be since they have different menu items. Anyway, on that page I assume I get the information about this stick and then it isn't there. I usually only need to click on a shopping cart when I intend to purchase a selected product. But Indeed on the Ultimarc site I also need to go to the "ordering page" to see all the products. Perhaps it's a standard for Arcade gear sites to have selected products on the "display pages" and then all the rest in the webstore.

Wasn't KevSteele working on a grand review of a huge number of joysticks?

[Nailz]

BTW, has anyone done a good "side-by-side" comparison between the OMNI-Stiks and the T-Stick?  When I first introduced the OMNI's on the site, OSCAR (and others) chimed in with fairly negative comments about the the somewhat shorter throw of the stick (which I personally like) relative to the standard HAPP variety.    Now I see much to do about the T-Stick, which from what I have heard, has a considerably shorter throw than even the OMNI's and requires much more force to actuate.

What gives?  

RandyT

I certainly haven't tested either of them Randy, the only thing I can say for myself, is that the OMNI-Stik has a handle design I have never seen or used in any arcades, being that I grew up playing the classics in the 80's.  The fact that the T-Stick has the bat handle or that you can use the ball-top brings back that familiarity to me.  Obviously nothing personal, but for me, it's the appearance that has swayed me towards the T-stick.I would imagine I'm not the only one thinking this way.

[patrickl]

Apparently the Omnistick is available in ballhandle as well. See the link that Tiger-Heli looked up for me a few messages back (thanks for that btw).

[Nailz]

Hmmm, looked a few posts back and didn't find anything, also went back to the groovygamegear website and found no mention of it either.....

[Tiger-Heli]

Apparently the Omnistick is available in ballhandle as well. See the link that Tiger-Heli looked up for me a few messages back (thanks for that btw).

Hey, Patrickl, I have an OT question about pedals in Menaces Yoke thread that you can probably answer.

I saw in Stingray's thread you have the same pedals -

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=16636;start=80

[RandyT]

I certainly haven't tested either of them Randy, the only thing I can say for myself, is that the OMNI-Stik has a handle design I have never seen or used in any arcades, being that I grew up playing the classics in the 80's.  The fact that the T-Stick has the bat handle or that you can use the ball-top brings back that familiarity to me.  Obviously nothing personal, but for me, it's the appearance that has swayed me towards the T-stick.I would imagine I'm not the only one thinking this way.

I'm a little behind in the project, but much of that will be remedied shortly.

Also, there is the "retro" version of the Prodigy that has been available for a couple of months now and   was modeled after a "galapac" style stick.  Go to the site and hit the shopping cart button, then hit controls.  It's the first item on the list.

It's a little pricey, but when you compare alternatives with the same options, it's right in the same "ball-park."

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Hmmm, looked a few posts back and didn't find anything, also went back to the groovygamegear website and found no mention of it either.....

See Reply #9 in THIS CURRENT thread.

[Brad Lee]

Used a piece of 1/8" threaded rod. Found a drawer knob(?) threaded inside with 1/8". The little square is a cube of wood, attached to the cp, and with a tiny eye-hook screwed in also- the rod slides through the eye, serves as the pivot point.
On the Tstick's white knob(the 4/8 switch) I used another eyehook with tiny nuts on either side to keep the other end of the rod in place & attached to the tstick. The eye-hook holes are the same height off of the CP so that when the rod goes through both, it's perfectly parallel to the plane of the CP

Also I had to file some of the tstick away- in the groove that the original white knob slides through, from 4way to 8way. Unmodified you need to give slight pressure to lift the knob before you can slide it to switch. I smoothed it out so that only the one motion is needed

Turns out this caused some problems. If you move the stick in circles, it causes the white actuator ring(inside the tstick, its the round disc with square cutout) to move a bit. This causes the white switch to move a little, if you keep going i nthe same driection it keeps moving, if you start circling the other way it moves the other way. Some games would get a little too vigorous and Id start missing moves- with the restricter turned only partway it misses some diagonals and acts weird in general
I ended up filing some more out of that groove, at each end this time. Now theres a nice gentle curve there, enough to keep it from moving once it's at the far end

[Nailz]

Cool!  Thanks to Randy and Tiger-Heli for pointing me in the right direction....

I would LOVE to see some reviews/comparisons between the 2 "big hitters".

[crashwg]

I probably would have bought the omni stick, had I known that there is a ball-top SS shaft version.  That was the only reason I didn't buy one, because the handle on the front page (didn't know there were more pages) is so damn ugly... no offense to anyone who likes it, but I personally don't.

So, I'm stuck with the T-Stick and I'm still planning on modifying it to switch back and forth without opening the CP up.

I do like your design Brad Lee, but it's not quite what I'm looking for.  The advice about the curve in the slot the switch travels in is good information though, thanks.

And the idea of using the bike shifter cables or brake cables is one that I think is pretty good...  I might go somewhere with that.

So anyways... no concrete plans yet, so keep dishin' out ideas if you have 'em.