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Author Topic: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power  (Read 11937 times)

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jennifer

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #120 on: February 14, 2020, 10:09:04 am »
While still amused...You guys are not wrong, A problem monitor bites hard, and can understand where some might just draw the line at the prospect...Problem is those monitors have lived past there designed years and are developing problems not covered in your traditional fix it shop, And most of the techs, are either long retired...or no longer with us.

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #121 on: February 14, 2020, 10:43:09 am »
So funny, I didn't realize the mention of the word LCD would cause such a ruckus. I have no intention of converting this over to using a LCD screen, I just wondered what your thoughts were on the subject. If you guys feel this monitor is salvageable then I'm on board. If that part is a voltage regulator chip, I'll order a new one and put it in. If we find other parts that may need replacing, then we'll replace those as well. That bad regulator chip kinda makes sense as to the lack of voltage at that 6 pin connector. Maybe that's the problem with this monitor. As far as your "Analogy" above, I use that same analogy all the time. If we get to a point where I feel this is way over my head, then I'll reach out to a repair guy. So far, I'm enjoying this, So lets continue on.  :)

bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #122 on: February 14, 2020, 10:50:01 am »
Well then - next step - pull the CRT.
What model# is it?
I'm pretty sure its a regulator chip - but its a guess.

If you want to really kill some time -
there are 4+ hours of these videos - I've watched them twice..  Very good in understanding whats happening..
My Centipede monitor has issues and I've worked through most (but not all) of them..

If you want to dig into CRT repair - Its a good place to start. 
He talks a lot about the hardest working chips, etc..    Big power transistors and voltage regulators are the common failures.


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Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #123 on: February 14, 2020, 11:32:01 am »
LCD monitors in arcade machines make me slightly homicidal.

I am really glad to see you working hard to restore this machine.

pbj

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #124 on: February 14, 2020, 01:24:45 pm »
I'm genuinely surprised Randy Fromm is posting those videos on youtube.  Either he's turned a new leaf or decided the cat's already out of the bag.  I remember the days when he would bid up the auctions on Ebay just to keep his stuff from going too cheap....

This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #125 on: February 14, 2020, 01:34:38 pm »
They are on his own channel - the videos are older than dirt..  But the info is very good. 
as a result....

I emailed him, thanked him for the videos and let him know they generate revenue..  I ordered his Big Blue Book - which I hear is a great resource in general.
After watching nearly 20 hours of video - the cost of the book was easy to justify.

He responded to my email within 10-15 minutes..

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pbj

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #126 on: February 14, 2020, 02:50:41 pm »
They were older than dirt 20 years ago and he was still bidding those auctions up to $400....

 :dizzy:
This forum needs more threads about Arcade 1Up cabinets.

bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #127 on: February 14, 2020, 04:15:07 pm »
They were older than dirt 20 years ago and he was still bidding those auctions up to $400....

 :dizzy:
Does anyone do that anymore?  bid up their own stuff? 
I just buy it it now on eBay... I don't think I've bid in 10 years.
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #128 on: February 15, 2020, 10:47:53 am »
Good morning all, It's Saturday morning and I just installed the Q3 - 2N3055 Transistor and the 5v Linear voltage Regulator. After doing a little drum roll and then pulling up on the interlock switch, I saw the LED on the PCB come on for a second and then went out. I took the ARII board back on the bench and rechecked the solder connections. I found one pin on the regulator that was questionable and re-soldered it. Before reconnecting the board and turning the power back on, I checked the fuses. I noticed that the two 7A fuses blew out. I replaced the two fuses, plugged the ARII back in and turned the power back on. Exact same thing. The PCB LED came on for a second and went out. I again checked the fuses and noticed that the same two 7 amp fuses blew out again. I wonder what is causing the short? Here I thought I was going to be making progress. Any thoughts? :( 

Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #129 on: February 15, 2020, 11:00:39 am »
Is the power coming from your wall bad? Is your plug wired correctly?

Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2020, 11:02:50 am »
There isn't much in front of this fuse to go wrong.

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Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2020, 11:05:15 am »
Or are these the problem?

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Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #132 on: February 15, 2020, 11:12:34 am »
I am going to pull the monitor on my centipede so I can get a clear picture of what is going on. I can't do it until at least tomorrow though.

bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #133 on: February 15, 2020, 11:26:31 am »
First - unplug the PCB - until you find the short - don't have it plugged in at all.

I'd be inclined to put a fuse in with nothing connected to the power brick and make sure it doesn't blow.
Then add the ARII and see if it blows..  (w/o the PCB)
The CRT comes off that too - did you do it with the CRT plugged in?  Because that would make a lot of sense..
do it w/o the CRT..
If it doesn't blow..
then add the PCB (no crt)
If I were staring at it myself..  I'd poke all the way through it with the meter looking for the short.. 
But at a high level..  it would make sense if it blew with the CRT plugged in based on the pad voltage regulator.
Curious to know what you find



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jennifer

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #134 on: February 15, 2020, 11:52:52 am »
Fuses can get quite expensive if your just going to throw them in the trash, Wiring in a 7 amp circut breaker while testing is a good alternative (Around 12.00 I believe) ...And like b/perkin says, break it down to basic string and protect the board, only hook that up when everything checks out...More than likely your problem is that chassis, more specifically the flyback, and as consequence regulator and transistor...But what does Jenn know🙄

Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #135 on: February 15, 2020, 11:57:43 am »
Jenn knows more than I do, but you have to catch her before she starts smoking meth.

jennifer

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #136 on: February 15, 2020, 12:01:57 pm »
Funny man...The fact you are willing to pull your monitor out for this guy, says alot about your character 😘

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2020, 12:22:45 pm »
Ya know, now that I'm thinking about it, I bet this has been the situation from the beginning. If you remember, back in the beginning of this thread, you suggested to first check all the fuses. I mentioned that the two 7 amp fuses were blown and I replaced them with 10 amp fuses that I purchased at the hardware store. I thought that I would leave those in until my order of 7 amp fuses came in the mail. Not realizing that those fuses blew immediately as soon as I turned the power on. I just now checked them and sure enough, they're toast. So when the fuses came in the mail the other day I replaced those 10 amp fuses (which I thought were still good), with the 7 amp fuses. Then before turning the power on, I replaced those parts on the ARII and turned the game on for the first time with fresh fuses in place. All the while, keeping my eye on the PCB LED. And that's when I noticed that the LED came on for a second and then immediately went off. Also realizing that the 7 amp fuses were blowing immediately! Mike, I checked my receptacle outlet when I started to check all the ground connections. Remember, I didn't want to assume that the receptacle was wired correctly. Oh, by the way, the bulbs for the coin mechanism also came in and work perfectly. It's nice to see that at least those lights turn on when I turn the machine on. So bperkins01, I like your idea above, I'm going to go try that now. I'll let you know what I find. Oh crap, I'm out of fuses. Looks like I'll have to order more. Jen, I like your idea about a 7 amp circuit breaker. I'll have to put one together. Thanks!

bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #138 on: February 15, 2020, 12:47:52 pm »
Was your CRT plugged in when the fuses blew?
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bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #139 on: February 15, 2020, 02:17:36 pm »
Actually - thinking through it... 
It's probably not the CRT - because its on the isolation side of the transformer.

Looking on that side of the transformer for 120V:
- Interlock switches
- J4A for marquee lighting (Does the cocktail even use this connector?)
- Yellow voltage selector wire block
- EMI Filter..

You tested with the interlock switches connected - My hunch is since everything worked properly with the testing jumper in place.  You may have a short in one of the interlock switches.   If you look at their schematic - they are double pole double throw.  A short there would explain what you are seeing..

Easy to test for short with a meter.
 - or -
Disconnect everything from the power brick - put any fuse in the 7A socket (it won't matter for this test) - connect the interlock switches and turn them on/off  - if the fuse blows - then you found the short...

Make sense??





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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #140 on: February 15, 2020, 03:36:52 pm »
bperkins01, I found two 6 amp fuses in one of my drawers and put those in the fuse socket. I did this before I read your last post at 02:17. I disconnected the CRT, ARII and PCB. I then plugged in the game, turned on the bottom switch and while watching the two "Fast blow" fuses, I pulled up on the top interlock switch. As soon as I did that, the fuses blew instantly. Ya know, now I'm not sure if everything was working properly with the testing jumpers in place. Maybe those fuses were already blown at that point. Anyway, I'll go pickup a couple more fuses at the hardware store and test those two dpdt for a short with my meter. I'll let you know once I do that.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #141 on: February 15, 2020, 03:46:05 pm »
I have a feeling its one of the interlock switches - test it with them bypassed and then with them connected.
or best with a meter of course to save fuses.
I think you are close...
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #142 on: February 15, 2020, 04:26:23 pm »
It seems I remember early on testing that bottom switch. I wanted to know which way was off and which way was on. Well I got back from the hardware store and luckily they had 7 amp slow blow fuses. So I bought the last three packs they had. I'm going to try to do all the testing with the meter to save the fuses. I'll get back to you when I'm done. :)

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #143 on: February 15, 2020, 05:44:16 pm »
Well, I did all the testing with my ohm meter at the J2 connector. I pulled up on the top interlock switch and turned the bottom switch on. I should be getting continuity across the two white wires and across the two black wires, which I am. I'm not getting any continuity across white and black which would indicate a short, correct? When I turn off the bottom switch, I'm not getting any continuity across any pins, which I shouldn't. Just for the heck of it, I checked for continuity across the two orange wires coming from the transformer. Each of those wires goes to a 7 amp fuse at F2 and F3. I'm getting continuity, which I don't think I should. right? Isn't this indicating a short across the secondary winding from the transformer? What do you think?

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #144 on: February 15, 2020, 06:01:59 pm »
Another thing, before I joined this forum, the first thing I did was I replaced the big blue cap and also put in a bridge rectifier. I'm not sure I should have put in that bridge rectifier in. You gotta remember, I was working off of a schematic that should a bridge rectifier configuration instead of the one that Mike sent at reply 131.I wonder If I screwed things up by doing that. Or are both configurations accomplishing the same thing by changing AC voltage to DC voltage. I'm just trying to make sense of all this. Anyway, the two switches appear to be working fine. Not sure what to look at from here.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #145 on: February 15, 2020, 06:13:31 pm »
I would disconnect the interlock switche harness completely and put it back in bypass.
On the 7A fuse side of the primary transformer - there is nothing except what I outlined earlier.
Plug in a fuse and see if it blows..with nothing attached and in bypass.

You are down to the EFI Filter (which should never die) or a bad primary winding.
So hard to diagnose this way...


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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #146 on: February 15, 2020, 08:23:35 pm »
Well, I have everything disconnected from the brick and it's in bypass mode. I replaced the two blown fuses with new 7 amp slow blow fuses and plugged in the unit. The fuses did not blow. So happy for that. So I totally disconnected the interlock switch and also the bottom on/off switch. I checked both switches with an ohm meter and they appear to be both working correctly. Continuity when on and no continuity when off. I also checked the switches for cross continuity across the polls. No chance of shorting there as well. So how can this unit be shorting out when the wires are connected to the switches? What are we missing?

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #147 on: February 15, 2020, 08:43:31 pm »
If you connect JUST the  interlock connector to J2 and power it up, does it blow a fuse?
then if you push/pull either of the interlock  switches  - does it blow?
If so - that is where the issue is...

The interlock switches are DPDT - I would think its *possible* for one of them to cross short in one of the three positions (momentary on/off/pull on)

You have 9 permutations with them

Switch 1     Switch 2
push on      push on
push on      off
push on      pull on

off             push on
off             off
off             pull on

pull on       push on
pull on       off
pull on       pull on

The interlock switches turn off/on the hot and the neutral at the same time..
Like I said - hard to *see* how you are checking..
But it still sounds like one of those two switches is bad based on the fuse not blowing with them disconnected.
That said -
You could keep the interlock on bypass, plug in the ATRII and see if you get all your voltages, then plug in the PCB.
You will be fine with the 6A fuse





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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #148 on: February 16, 2020, 07:32:00 am »
ok - clearly I like a good puzzle..  My description above is for 2 interlock switches (for the upright)
But I think you only have a single interlock switch (I keep looking at my schematic)
This is yours - correct?



With both switches on - you should have continuity on the black wire only (pin 1 & pin 4)
and the white wire only (Pin 2 and pin 5)

You should never have continuity white to black, or white to ground (Pin 6) or black to ground
Hopefully that makes sense.

You are saying you are blowing 2 fuses every time?  F1 is the 7A - what fuse is the second 7A fuse?


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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #149 on: February 16, 2020, 07:35:21 am »
Bperkins.
Look at the pic in reply 131.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #150 on: February 16, 2020, 07:44:39 am »
OOOhhhhhhh  - is it F2 and F3 that are blowing.
ughh - my mistake  - can I delete my last 2 posts?    :embarassed:

I don't have the rest of that to look at..  That power brick is different than the upright..
I was looking at the 7A fuse in the primary side.




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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #151 on: February 16, 2020, 07:52:42 am »
I will email you a good quality pic.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #152 on: February 16, 2020, 08:13:12 am »
Looks like its the 10.3v circuit.

When you connect just the power brick (including the switches) nothing blows..  correct?

My guess is when you connect the ARII - that's when they blow.  (don't connect the PCB)
The 10.3v circuit has a bunch of chips in it that could cause a short.
Right in the middle of all of them is the LM305 voltage regulator chip you ordered with the power transistor.
Its a known troublemaker...  Did you replace it? if not.....

(again - so hard to do over a forum....)

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #153 on: February 16, 2020, 09:20:33 am »
Good morning all. I've been up since 5:00 this morning trying to figure this crazy problem out. I really never thought that the switches where causing the problem. So just to confirm that, I removed both of them from the equation and put a jumper across the two black wires and across the two white wires for the interlock switch. And Also did the same for the on/off switch at the bottom of the chassis. I also plugged in J2 to the chassis. Nothing else is plugged in. The PCB is disconnected as well as the ARII and as well as the monitor. And yes to the question are they both 7 amp fuses. F2 and F3 are both 7 amp fuses. As soon as I plugged the cord into the wall socket, both of the 7 amp fuses at F2 and F3 blow. To answer your question, "When you connect just the power brick (including the switches) nothing blows..  correct?" Now that I have those switches hard wired, the fuses will blow If I plug in J2. If I unplug J2 and put jumpers across the J2 socket on the brick, nothing blows. Which makes sense, there's no voltage being distributed to the harness and through the switches. Oh, and Yes, I did replace both of those parts yesterday. I thought I mentioned that above. Sorry. I guess we're back to square one. Where is this short coming from? Back to the schematic.:dizzy:

bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #154 on: February 16, 2020, 09:58:38 am »
Good morning all. I've been up since 5:00 this morning trying to figure this crazy problem out. I really never thought that the switches where causing the problem. So just to confirm that, I removed both of them from the equation and put a jumper across the two black wires and across the two white wires for the interlock switch. And Also did the same for the on/off switch at the bottom of the chassis. I also plugged in J2 to the chassis. Nothing else is plugged in. The PCB is disconnected as well as the ARII and as well as the monitor. And yes to the question are they both 7 amp fuses. F2 and F3 are both 7 amp fuses. As soon as I plugged the cord into the wall socket, both of the 7 amp fuses at F2 and F3 blow. To answer your question, "When you connect just the power brick (including the switches) nothing blows..  correct?" Now that I have those switches hard wired, the fuses will blow If I plug in J2. If I unplug J2 and put jumpers across the J2 socket on the brick, nothing blows. Which makes sense, there's no voltage being distributed to the harness and through the switches. Oh, and Yes, I did replace both of those parts yesterday. I thought I mentioned that above. Sorry. I guess we're back to square one. Where is this short coming from? Back to the schematic.:dizzy:

Let me see if I can repeat this back:  (Just to be sure)
1. You bypassed the interlock switch and the on/off switch with jumpers on the actual wiring harness (testing for bad switches), left it plugged into J2 on the power brick and the fuses blow.  (yes/no?)
2. You unplug J2 from P2 on the power brick, Jump pins 1 & 4 (black) and 2 & 5 (white) on P2 (on the power brick) and the fuses do not blow?

But after that -
The only thing there is the bridge rectifier and the big blue cap - recheck the wires on them?  Maybe one got to the wrong place?
Maybe you got a bad rectifier?  With power and nothing connected to J5 - that's all there is connected to those 2 fuses.












My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #155 on: February 16, 2020, 10:33:57 am »
Quote
1. You bypassed the interlock switch and the on/off switch with jumpers on the actual wiring harness (testing for bad switches), left it plugged into J2 on the power brick and the fuses blow.  (yes/no?)
Ans: Yes. But I physically removed the switches. Then the dangling wires that were connected to the switches is where I placed the jumpers across. And with J2 plugged into the brick, the fuse blows.

Quote
2. You unplug J2 from P2 on the power brick, Jump pins 1 & 4 (black) and 2 & 5 (white) on P2 (on the power brick) and the fuses do not blow?
Correct.

After looking at the schematic, That J2 being plugged into the brick only allows the unit to be switched on and off via the power switches. that's all. It doesn't supply voltage to anything. As a long shot, I'm going to again check the continuity on the white and black wires from the P2 connector on the brick to the white and black wires at the switches.

Like I said before, maybe I shouldn't have put in that bridge rectifier. The schematic that Mike sent me were different from the original schematic that I was working from. My schematic shows a bridge rectifier. Mike's schematic shows two diods instead of 4. Could that be the problem??? :dunno

bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #156 on: February 16, 2020, 10:41:08 am »
Quote
1. You bypassed the interlock switch and the on/off switch with jumpers on the actual wiring harness (testing for bad switches), left it plugged into J2 on the power brick and the fuses blow.  (yes/no?)
Ans: Yes. But I physically removed the switches. Then the dangling wires that were connected to the switches is where I placed the jumpers across. And with J2 plugged into the brick, the fuse blows.

Quote
2. You unplug J2 from P2 on the power brick, Jump pins 1 & 4 (black) and 2 & 5 (white) on P2 (on the power brick) and the fuses do not blow?
Correct.

After looking at the schematic, That J2 being plugged into the brick only allows the unit to be switched on and off via the power switches. that's all. It doesn't supply voltage to anything. As a long shot, I'm going to again check the continuity on the white and black wires from the P2 connector on the brick to the white and black wires at the switches.

Like I said before, maybe I shouldn't have put in that bridge rectifier. The schematic that Mike sent me were different from the original schematic that I was working from. My schematic shows a bridge rectifier. Mike's schematic shows two diods instead of 4. Could that be the problem??? :dunno

#1 - The short is here..  Its not the switches - its the wiring  - somewhere you have a black/white wire touching  or black to ground or white to ground..
The on/off switch and interlock switch to the EXACT same thing as #2 above.  it just allows the power brick to come on..

It still strange they are taking out the fuses on the secondary side - unless one of those wires is actually shorted to the secondary side (or mis-wired to it more likely)  either of those wires on the harness, shorting to the secondary side would to that..
I think you are on the 1 yard line...
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #157 on: February 16, 2020, 10:43:15 am »
Check out reply 32 for a pic of the underside of the brick. That will show the Bridge rectifier and the big blue cap.

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #158 on: February 16, 2020, 12:26:17 pm »
Quote
somewhere you have a black/white wire touching  or black to ground or white to ground..

I believe from above statement, white to ground is fine. In the main panel box the whites and bare ground wires are all on the same bus. But black to white would be a short as well as Black to ground. Please tell me if there is something unique in this box that I'm not aware of. I'm pretty sure I checked and got continuity between white and ground. I'll check again.

Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2020, 12:31:24 pm »
I will pull my monitor this afternoon so we can compare wiring jobs. I will take a bunch of pics.

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