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Author Topic: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power  (Read 11157 times)

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PL1

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #280 on: April 14, 2020, 07:56:44 am »
Additionally, one of the 10K 2W resistors that showed a low ďin circuitĒ reading was actually very close to the 10K value after I removed it and retested it. I should probably just leave the resistors alone. Is that typical? That a resistor ďIn circuitĒ value will show a different reading after being removed from the circuit?
That can happen when there is more than one path from one meter lead to the other.

If you try to measure R1 in--circuit, current can also flow through R2.
(Assume the battery has been disconnected since you should never take resistance readings with power applied.)



To accurately measure R1, you would need to either:
  1. Desolder a leg and lift it clear so there is no path through R2 to the lead on that leg.
    or
  2. Desolder both legs and remove it completely from the circuit.


Scott

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #281 on: April 14, 2020, 11:56:31 am »
Good morning all, Well, some of my electrical components finally came in the other day. One of the parts that I ordered was a replacement for the cracked Ceramic capacitor that is soldered to the H/Out transistor as seen in the above picture. That original cap is probably the size of a dime. The replacement part that came in is probably the size of a pea. Does that sound right? The part is a 151J which is a 150 pf 1.5 KV AC 5% Tolerance Ceramic cap. The description of the new part is identical (Actually a 2KV) but so much smaller. Should I be concerned?

Itís been 40 years - electronic components have evolved and gotten more efficient. I wouldnít give it a second thought. ;(
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #282 on: May 11, 2020, 06:52:56 am »
Good morning all, now that all the components have been restored, I turned the unit on, and the screen finally lit up. It only stayed on the main centipede game screen for about 5 Ė 10 seconds then went black. I can turn up the brightness, but then all I get is a white screen. I also turned the RBG knobs and only got a slight hue of those colors. The both fuses donít blow anymore. I checked the B + and I have a DC voltage of 119.5.  Is it critical that the reading be exactly 120vdc? According to the documentation, the adjustment reference R909 is not on the board. At least, not that I can find. Please see pic below. Can someone send me a picture of the adjustment potentiometer? I thought for sure everything would have been good except for a few minor adjustments. Not sure where to go from here. Does anyone have any suggestions?

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #283 on: May 12, 2020, 01:49:56 pm »
.5v will not make a difference.  If your screen is getting scan lines (meaning you can turn knobs and get see anything like you said - white, red, green) then the issue may be in the circuits that take the video signal in.. or your video ground has disconnected in the connector. 

Is the power LED on - on the game PCB?  are you sure the PCB didn't lose power?



My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #284 on: May 12, 2020, 04:41:51 pm »
perkins, I turned the game on again when I got home from work to take a closer look as to what is going on. When I turn the game on, everything looks normal for a total of about 40 seconds. The game shows the high score screen with red lettering for about 15 seconds. Then the lettering will turn to green for about 20 to 25 seconds. Then to yellow for a few more seconds, then to a black screen. At that time I looked over at the PCB board and the LED light was still on. I  can do this repeatedly (turn it off and on) and it will basically do the same thing each time. Although, one time I turned it on and the screen just went right to a black screen. But when I turned it off and back on again it repeated as above. What are your thoughts?

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #285 on: May 12, 2020, 04:54:36 pm »
hmmmm..
Again - hard to tell over the internet..
It kinda sounds like you have a chip that has a thermal problem on the pcb...and its taking out the video..
Start it up and start touching the chips on the PCB - if any are too hot to touch for more that a couple seconds - that could be your issue.
the video output chips are at A8, A9, C8, K4, B7  - but any one on the board could be the cause.  Once it happens, switch to test mode and see if the machine is beeping/resetting.

However - there is also a circuit on the monitor that is called the 'x-ray' protector.
Its job is to prevent over voltage from the flyback that will cause your crt to emit xrays..
normally I wouldn't even consider this - except - you had to sub in  a flyback that was not meant for that crt if I remember correctly
It is supposed to kick in immediately too - not after 10-15 seconds

Maybe its involved? - I've only read about this - but its a real thing..  Maybe that will help narrow the cause.
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #286 on: May 14, 2020, 06:55:20 am »
Perkins, do you know what's puzzling to me, is that I thought the image on the screen would now be a different size. As you recalled, I have a 13" monitor and the flyback if for a 19" monitor. Maybe, when the tube starts to heat up, after 40 seconds it tries to resize the screen according to the new flyback. But instead of resizing, it just goes black. Does that make any sense? Or should it immediately resize according to the new flyback? At any rate, when I first turn the game on, the picture looks like the original size (for 40 seconds). I wonder if I could send a short one-minute video of what is going on. Do you know if this website has the capability of playing videos? Would it help for you to see what is being displayed on the monitor? What are your thoughts?

Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #287 on: May 14, 2020, 08:16:25 am »
There are modifications that need to be made when you use that flyback. Did you do that or did you just swap the new one in?

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #288 on: May 14, 2020, 08:18:42 am »
If the video is small enough in size - you can upload it - otherwise publish it Youtube and put a link here.  More people looking at it will help.

The tube doesn't resize the picture - it just displays the signal it gets (when working properly).  The same way you can watch TV on your phone or on a 70" LED screen.
The flyback for a 19" monitor on a 13" tube w/o any adjustments to compensate doesn't seem like it should work. 

Did  you reflow the edge connectors on the boards in the monitor?  A bad solder joint could cause the video to go out too.. 
 :dunno


My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
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Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #289 on: May 14, 2020, 08:28:43 am »
There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding that flyback. There are people that say it works fine, and others say it does not work. Others say there is a cap that needs to be changed, but that is just to get the correct image width.

It sounds like a thermal problem but that is just a wild guess.

Does the game still coin up and play when the monitor goes dark? I apologize if you already mentioned this. I have been vacuuming up water in my basement all night and I had to quit that to go to work this morning. My brain is a bit fried.

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #290 on: May 15, 2020, 07:33:48 am »
Mike, After I made the flyback swap, recapped the board, changed the H/Out transistor, added PCB fuse holders to the board, I just reassembled and turn the game on. I first wanted to see if the game would even turn on at all and also wanted to see the size of the video output. I really didnít make any flyback adjustments per se. So, even though the output video appears to be ok, it only stays illuminated for about 40 seconds. The only modifications Iíve heard about was related to the resizing of the video display, which appears to be fine. I havenít tried to actually play the game. Iíll try that tonight. Iíll see what happens while I have video display as well as when the video goes black. That should be interesting. Iíll give another update on Monday.

Perkins, Iím not sure what you mean by reflowing the edges on the board. Are you thinking that I need to heat up all the soldering connections on the neck board and on the main monitor board? I can do that this weekend as well. Thanks for all your input.

Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #291 on: May 15, 2020, 07:36:56 am »
I admire you for sticking with it. That cab was pretty far gone and you almost have it operating. :applaud:

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #292 on: May 15, 2020, 07:55:27 am »
Mike, After I made the flyback swap, recapped the board, changed the H/Out transistor, added PCB fuse holders to the board, I just reassembled and turn the game on. I first wanted to see if the game would even turn on at all and also wanted to see the size of the video output. I really didnít make any flyback adjustments per se. So, even though the output video appears to be ok, it only stays illuminated for about 40 seconds. The only modifications Iíve heard about was related to the resizing of the video display, which appears to be fine. I havenít tried to actually play the game. Iíll try that tonight. Iíll see what happens while I have video display as well as when the video goes black. That should be interesting. Iíll give another update on Monday.

Perkins, Iím not sure what you mean by reflowing the edges on the board. Are you thinking that I need to heat up all the soldering connections on the neck board and on the main monitor board? I can do that this weekend as well. Thanks for all your input.

I haven't read up on using a 19" flyback on a 13" monitor..  (makes me nervous that there is an over voltage situation that will cause the xray protection to kick in)
That said - definitely see if the game plays regardless of what is on the screen - you need to determine if its a monitor issue or a game board issue..
i.e.  it will shoot, make noise, etc..  working except you can't see what is going on because the screen is dead (playing blind)

Re flowing the connectors -  the joints in the pin connectors where the boards attach - after 40 years become loose / crack.
(pins 4,5,6 show this clearly)



Look close at the cracks on those pins..  a board warming up will cause those joints to move and lose connectivity.

To reflow a joint - heat it - remove some solder with a sucker or a wick and refresh it..

1. See if its playing blind
2. Check for cold solder joints - but reflow all the connector pins

HTH

 
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

Mike A

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #293 on: May 15, 2020, 08:05:46 am »
I am really interested to see if it coins up and plays blind.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #294 on: May 18, 2020, 06:56:39 am »
Good morning all, Perkins, I did what you suggested. As soon as I powered on the game and saw the video display, I put two coins in the coin receiver and pressed the LED buttons. As soon as I pressed the first LED button the screen went blank (very dark display). There was only one time that the game sounded like it was working. See Reply #199.
Quote
Turned the game back on and all the lights came on. The PCB board LED light, the two coin receptor lights, plus the two LED's above the coin receptor. The speaker was even making some noise. For now, I left the monitor unplugged. I noticed that the two LED lights above the coin receptor were blinking, so I inserted two coins. I pushed those LED buttons and it sounded like the game was playing. I was pressing the fire button and rolling the yellow ball. The sound coming out of the speakers was a little fuzzy and staticy, but it sounded like it was working. So now I thought I'd plug in the monitor just to see If it would light up. Nothing. So I disconnected the monitor and checked the voltages on the two plugs. Still no voltage on the six pin plug, and 126 volts on the three pin plug just like before. I left the monitor unplugged and turned the game back on again, but can't get it to sound like it's playing. I hope I didn't cause any damage by plugging in the monitor.
Are you familiar with self-test mode? I can switch over to self-test mode at any time and see all the typical characters on the screen. That screen will stay on indefinitely. I actually started to go through the self-testing of the machine and noticed that the yellow ball was acting erratic depending on how much pressure I was applying to the ball. The self-test picture in the book says you should see the centipede character in the middle of the screen. I didnít see that character unless I applied a little pressure on the ball. Since the ball is really dirty, I thought Iíd take it apart and clean it up a little. I really donít think has anything to do with the problem, but itís funny how easy it is to get sidetracked. So getting back to reply #199, why did the game sound normal just that one time? I still need to put the monitor back on the bench and check for cold solder joints. Iíll keep you posted.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #295 on: May 18, 2020, 07:05:49 am »
If self test mode stays on indefinitely and the monitor never blanks out in test mode..  Your monitor is repaired - don't mess with it any further!

Your game board on the other hand is not running properly.  The Centipede manual will tell you all the steps you can run through in self test. 
Repairing the PCB is quite a different thing...
Not sure if that is a road you are interested in traveling down... Working and tested Centipede PCB's are pretty easy to come buy (I have a couple at the moment)..

Where are you located?


« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 08:12:35 am by bperkins01 »
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #296 on: May 18, 2020, 10:25:06 am »
Sounds like when a Centipede PCB of mine had a bad Pokey.
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #297 on: May 19, 2020, 06:10:57 am »
Good morning people,
Quote
Your monitor is repaired - don't mess with it any further!
Thatís the best news yet.  :cheers: So you think swapping out my PCB for a working one is the way to go? Iím from Grand Island, NY. Between Niagara Falls and Buffalo, NY. How much would a used board run? I noticed that there are 3 or 4 chips on the board. Do you think replacing those might be a start to see how far gone the board is? I also noticed that there is a reset button at the bottom of the PCB. When I tried to press that button nothing seemed to happened. That button also appears to be stuck in the depressed position. Does that sound normal? Iím not sure of the characteristics of that button. I thought it would be slightly protruding from the board so that it could actually be pressed in. Like a momentary type switch. Other than that, Iím at a loss. What are your suggestions? :-\

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #298 on: May 19, 2020, 06:29:45 am »
A Centipede board looks like this normally.  Maybe 60+ chips and other stuff too...



Something on here is bad..
I have a good one if you want to work something out - PM me a pic of the board you have.




« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 09:03:55 am by bperkins01 »
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Joust Cocktail, Asteroids, Galaga, Ms. Pacman Cabaret, Defender, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #299 on: May 20, 2020, 09:13:45 am »
Good morning perkins, Please see Replies 87-90. I'll send you a PM.