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Author Topic: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power  (Read 7997 times)

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bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #240 on: March 17, 2020, 11:13:08 am »
If there are no VISIBLE cracks and leaks on your flyback, I'd put the horizontal output transistor in and try it that way.  Whats the worse thing that can happen?  You blow a $4 part?  You already know its bad and its the #1 part that fails..

Install the transistor - 10 minutes work and see if progress is made.

Thatís why I usually get multiples of any chip, IC, or transistors I order, if possible. You never know....

oh yea..  My spare parts are multiplying quickly..  *feels* less painful ordering a bunch of stuff at once and reducing the shipping overall cost.  :)
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yotsuya

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #241 on: March 17, 2020, 11:15:49 am »
If there are no VISIBLE cracks and leaks on your flyback, I'd put the horizontal output transistor in and try it that way.  Whats the worse thing that can happen?  You blow a $4 part?  You already know its bad and its the #1 part that fails..

Install the transistor - 10 minutes work and see if progress is made.

Thatís why I usually get multiples of any chip, IC, or transistors I order, if possible. You never know....

oh yea..  My spare parts are multiplying quickly..  *feels* less painful ordering a bunch of stuff at once and reducing the shipping overall cost.  :)
Yep -  nothing worse than blowing a specialty fuse or some other item and having to reorder, wait for it to come again, pay again for shipping, etc. - especially if they are cheap parts. Better to have a little stockpile to help save time, more than money!
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #242 on: March 17, 2020, 11:21:39 am »
Quote
Yep -  nothing worse than blowing a specialty fuse or some other item and having to reorder, wait for it to come again, pay again for shipping, etc. - especially if they are cheap parts. Better to have a little stockpile to help save time, more than money!

Agreed - my Mouser.com  74LSxxx chip collection is up to 27 SKU's just because I can't bare to buy the 1 stupid IC I want and pay $8 to ship it..
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #243 on: March 17, 2020, 11:46:50 am »
Sounds like a plan. When the parts come in I'll replace the H/Out, thoroughly inspect the flyback and give it a try. I'll let you as soon as all that is completed.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #244 on: March 18, 2020, 07:11:18 am »
Perkin, Last night I disassembled the monitor circuit board from the monitor. Since Iím going to be replacing parts soon, I thought this would be a good time as any to get started. This also gave me a much better view of the flyback and other components. I cleaned up the flyback the best I could and took some pictures of the front and back side. I also noticed some discoloration in the center of the board. Not sure how serious this might be. I also noticed what looks like flyback splatter toward the inside back of the cabinet. Only thing is, Iím not sure if this is an old war injury from a previous problem or if this is the cause of my current problem. I can only speculate as to what might have happened. See all pics below.

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #245 on: March 18, 2020, 07:12:17 am »
Pic below shows Flyback front view.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #246 on: March 18, 2020, 07:13:17 am »
Pic below shows flyback rear view

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #247 on: March 18, 2020, 07:14:28 am »
Top monitor board view.

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #248 on: March 18, 2020, 07:17:00 am »
From the top monitor board view and this view below, I'm see a lot of heat discoloration.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #249 on: March 18, 2020, 07:19:21 am »
This pic below showing that flyback splatter from inside the back wall of the cabinet.

bperkins01

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #250 on: March 18, 2020, 08:24:07 am »
It looks like its been recapped and worked on previously.  No indication of anything on your flyback to me either.  I'd leave it for now.

The dark burned up area inside the heat sinks looks like parts have been replaced there too..(maybe the resistor burned up?  the one that's there looks new and the source of the burn marks.

Put the H/O transistor in and try it is my suggestion based on what I'm looking at...
If it works - I wouldn't replace anything else..
Hopefully you get the part today.


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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #251 on: March 18, 2020, 11:05:20 am »
Sounds good. Sometimes it feels like we're involved with a crime scene investigation.  What component did it and why. too funny. I believe those parts will come in today or tomorrow.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #252 on: March 18, 2020, 11:25:45 am »
Some of it is CSI work..  But those NTE Caps all look new, I think they have data codes on them... But I'm not sure..
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #253 on: March 20, 2020, 06:17:53 am »
I had a chance to replace the H/Out last night. I'll also replace that mini fuse and put everything back together as you suggested. Hoping to see some life with this monitor so I can check the B+ and make some final adjustments. I'll try to get back online Saturday to give another update.

vapuser

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #254 on: March 22, 2020, 11:02:45 am »
After, replacing the H/out resistor and mini 1 amp fuse, I put everything back together and placed the monitor back in the cabinet. I turned the power back on and still no difference. The mini 1 amp fuse blew again and still no power to the monitor. I thought for sure that would have worked. I ordered a Fluke 15B + F15B+ Digital ohmmeter today. That should be here in a day or two. I'd like to re-test out that H/out transistor again and maybe the voltage regulator (2SC1106) transistor? Something must be blowing that mini fuse. Just not sure what it could be. Any suggestions? :dunno

yotsuya

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #255 on: March 22, 2020, 03:03:09 pm »
Fly back. I had the same issue on a G07. Once I replaced the fly, it was golden.
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #256 on: March 22, 2020, 04:37:13 pm »
yotsuya, I heard that there are no Flybacks available for a 13" monitor like I have. The only ones flybacks out there are for the 19" monitors. I heard that if I decide to order and install one of those, I'll need to make some circuit modifications. Do you know what circuit modifications they're talking about? Is this a major project? Is there any information or videos on this that I can look at? What are your thoughts?

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #257 on: March 22, 2020, 05:54:03 pm »
yotsuya, I heard that there are no Flybacks available for a 13" monitor like I have. The only ones flybacks out there are for the 19" monitors. I heard that if I decide to order and install one of those, I'll need to make some circuit modifications. Do you know what circuit modifications they're talking about? Is this a major project? Is there any information or videos on this that I can look at? What are your thoughts?
I wish I could help, but Iíve never changed a flyback on a 13Ē monitor. My experience would tell me that would solve your problem, but I donít know where to source one.

Let me ask around and see if I can find anything for you.
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #258 on: March 22, 2020, 05:59:18 pm »
This looks like a pretty good thread to look at:


https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=413125
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #259 on: March 23, 2020, 06:58:04 am »
yotsuya, Thank you so much!, a great link with great information! Now off to ordering more parts.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #260 on: March 23, 2020, 09:44:07 pm »
Is unfortunate its putting up such a fight..
Was there a way to test the voltage regulator/transistor?  Looks like another low cost component..

Maybe you can check for shorts on the coils in the flyback? I've never checked one..
It would be better if you knew with certainty that was the issue..

Replacing everything w/o knowing who is causing the issue is likely to create new problems.. But you've been living it...

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #261 on: March 24, 2020, 07:42:10 am »
Quote
Was there a way to test the voltage regulator/transistor?  Looks like another low cost component..

Maybe you can check for shorts on the coils in the flyback? I've never checked one..
It would be better if you knew with certainty that was the issue..

I agree. My new meter should be here any day now. I want to recheck the H/Out and also check the X02 for a short. I have the extra parts. It wouldn't take much to change out that voltage regulator transistor as well. When I remove the Flyback I will definitely check it out the best I can. It would be nice if it could be repaired. I'll include some pics if there are any visible signs of damage. Worst case scenario, I replace the flyback with a A29951B and modify the horizontal width circuitry with the correct value combination of chicklets. I'll keep you posted.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #262 on: March 24, 2020, 06:40:35 pm »
Looking good... :cheers:
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 08:29:38 pm by jennifer »

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #263 on: March 30, 2020, 07:03:12 am »
Good morning all, quite an eventful weekend. I had a chance to replace most of the caps from the cap kit that I ordered. I would have replaced them all, but 7 of them from the kit were incorrect. See Pic below.  A couple examples: My C303 cap had a value of 10uf @ 250V, the kit supplied a 22uf @ 50V replacement. My C504 had a value of 1uf @ 160V, the kit supplied a 1uf @ 50V replacement. The list sheet stated a higher voltage would be ok, but not a lower voltage. See pic below for full original values and supplied values. Iím going to try to contact Arcade Parts and Repair today to try to exchange the incorrect valued caps for the correct ones. The blue dot on the sheet below indicates the caps that I was able to correctly replace.  Iím just noticing that Iíll have to un-solder C408. The replacement cap voltage is too low. Iíll double check all the polarities before I move on.
Additionally, I was able to un-solder the Flyback. I flipped it over and took a picture of that as well.  See pic below. I would have taken a reading of the coils, but I donít know what the values should be.  I also want to check out Resistor R908. One of the links I read said to check the value and replace if necessary. I feel steady progress is being made. Still much to be done. Any thoughts?

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #264 on: March 30, 2020, 07:04:21 am »
See Pic below shows underside view of the Flyback.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #265 on: March 30, 2020, 08:59:03 am »
That flyback looks good to me.. 
Not cracked or melted.. w/o knowing the expected values - you should be able to test for shorted windings using the schematic..

Bad caps are not known to cause fuses to blow..  they create crappy pictures when they are bad.
There are a bunch of threads on that monitor about cap sizes, etc..  but all related to crappy pictures, colors.



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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #266 on: March 30, 2020, 02:59:02 pm »
That flyback looks good to me.. 
Not cracked or melted.. w/o knowing the expected values - you should be able to test for shorted windings using the schematic..

Bad caps are not known to cause fuses to blow..  they create crappy pictures when they are bad.
There are a bunch of threads on that monitor about cap sizes, etc..  but all related to crappy pictures, colors.
I am actually a bit confused as to why you would be giving this guy false hope...Supose a 30.00 flyback is life changing money or something, But even if that one is not the problem by some miracle and it still works...Most likely within 6 months those new caps are going to blow it out anyway.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #267 on: March 30, 2020, 03:10:39 pm »
That flyback looks good to me.. 
Not cracked or melted.. w/o knowing the expected values - you should be able to test for shorted windings using the schematic..

Bad caps are not known to cause fuses to blow..  they create crappy pictures when they are bad.
There are a bunch of threads on that monitor about cap sizes, etc..  but all related to crappy pictures, colors.
I am actually a bit confused as to why you would be giving this guy false hope...Supose a 30.00 flyback is life changing money or something, But even if that one is not the problem by some miracle and it still works...Most likely within 6 months those new caps are going to blow it out anyway.

Not my intention - he was having difficulty finding the correct one, requiring him to not use an exact replacement,  That required another layer of modifications to make the wrong one work.
My opinion is to find the cause of the issue and fix that first.  Not replace everything and hope I got it..  Replacing caps is a great idea.  Injecting more change into the equation (caps) before knowing why its blowing fuses in the first place complicates the matter IMHO. 

Tougher than that is trying to help repair a CRT over the internet.. A forum is to solicit opinions - he doesn't have to listen to me - but it helps to have a few to think about.  that's all.  I've politely not listened to many opinions over the years.   Still learned from them.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #268 on: March 30, 2020, 03:22:41 pm »
Oh, Well in a strange way that does make sense...That chassis looks tired, and could be a good candidate for replacing, but in the interest of fixing it, I would personally change pretty much everything, But at the very least, caps and flyback (The hard part is already done since it is already out.)😉

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #269 on: March 30, 2020, 09:00:26 pm »
Vapuser...You do have options, depending on your level of OCD.. That tube could also be issue, If that were on my bench That would have been my first test, and a clean and balance, if it is burnt, or faded you are going to end up with that when this is over, If the tube is shorted, (very rare) it will fry your fresh new chassis in the blink of an eye...13" TVs are quite common, and offer an alternative, either hack RGB to the receiver, or use output jacks...Or use an universial chassis (by counting pins on donor tube, and measuring deflection resistance...Either way there is no shame in either, makes for good color, and a fun game to play at the end of the day.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #270 on: March 31, 2020, 07:58:28 am »
Good morning, Good news, bad news. The good news is that Arcade Parts and Repair has confirmed that all their replacement caps in their cap kits are an accurate representation of what needs to be replaced.  They stated that if there is a discrepancy in the cap values, chances are that they were previously, replaced with an incorrect value. That was good to hear. Now I can continue replacing the remainder of the caps. The bad news is that after checking the resistance across the windings of the flyback, they all showed a shorted condition. I first checked for a value between pins 1 and 3. The reading rapidly went from 1.0 to .9 then .8, .7, .6. Same across pins 4 and 5, 6 and 7, and also 6 and 10. When I changed the meter to indicate a tone for a short, all above readings toned out. Short, short, short, short. So maybe this can be construed as good news as this definitely confirms the reason for the 1-amp fuse to blow. I think now we can feel confident that the flyback definitely needs to be replaced. Iíll place that order today and give another update in a few days.
Jennifer, I can only wish that I had your level of expertise. I wouldnít even know where to start with what you suggested. Perkins and I were on the same page with trying to determine what is actually causing that 1-amp fuse to blow. I think now it is quite evident that the Flyback was the culprit. Which is something that you instinctively knew from the beginning. My thoughts are, that Iím going to replace the rest of the caps and the flyback, hope that I have video, check my B+, correct the horizontal issue with a correct value combination of chicklets and take it from there. If this game works after all that Iíll have you guys to thank for it. I already appreciate all of your help and suggestions!

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #271 on: March 31, 2020, 08:25:50 am »
That would be great news if it was internally shorted.  I personally like knowing the cause.  If I wanted something to work w/o knowing why..  I'd send it out to an expert. 
Since you are putting in the effort to repair this yourself - you seem to want to know *why* and have put in a lot of troubleshooting.
Confirming a failed component is the best..
Hope it is it!
keep up the good work.
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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #272 on: March 31, 2020, 12:47:25 pm »
I dont mean to be confusing...Basically, That tube may not be your best bang for the money, It most likely has seen a hard life, If you look at it close does it have an image burned on the screen?, And most likely the phosphorus is faded to giving it a faded look, not a dark grey like a healthy tube, And if so, the color guns (inside the tube) should be cleaned, balanced,  and short tested with a rejuvenator for optimal color ,   Here is a fun vid on the subject if you are curious ...Just saying 13" TVs are actually easy to find, as they were uncommon for arcade swaps and hacking them is not really all that hard.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 12:56:15 pm by jennifer »

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #273 on: April 01, 2020, 06:53:17 am »
Good morning all, Jen thanks for that great video. I had to idea that such a device existed. If I did this for a living or even a serious side job, I would definitely have that device in my shop. Yes, my monitor definitely has a burned in image on the screen and most likely suffers from all those above symptoms you mentioned. Once I have this game up and working again, I just might take this monitor to a repair shop and have it cleaned and balanced. Iím sure it needs it. If further attention is needed, or as an alternative, Iíll have to keep my eyes open for a color 13Ē TV monitor. Had no idea that they may still be around. Since Iím really enjoying this restoration project, I would definitely consider the challenge of swapping out my monitor. But, one step at a time. I ordered the flyback yesterday and hope to have it installed by this weekend. By then, the rest of the parts should also be restored. I canít wait to see the results of those efforts. Iíll keep you all posted.  :)

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #274 on: April 03, 2020, 06:50:32 am »
TGIF! Well, those parts came in faster than I had anticipated. The new flyback and all the caps from the cap kit have now been soldered in place. To be honest, Iím still not completely comfortable with some of the replacement caps from the kit. Like Jen said, it could be my OCD kicking in, or just some common sense. Some of the replacements were so far off itís scary. I just hate to assume that thereíre all correct. Does anyone know definitively what those exact replacements should be? Someone must have a printout of the original caps on that GO7-FBO board. If you take a look at Reply 263, the caps that Iím concerned with are the ones that do not have a green dot next to them. Thereís Just the 7 of them. Iím really not even concerned with C520 either. Just: C303, C504, C517, C407, C403, C411 and C518. That pic from Reply 263 above shows my cap values that were originally on the board and the replacement values that I blindly soldered in. C303 is a good example of how far off that replacement was: from 10uf @ 250V to a replacement of 22uf @ 50V. A different micro farad value and a drop in voltage. I have a feeling that a cap replacement was done years ago and that person had a need to clean out their junk drawer of unused caps. C518 is another good example. 220uf @ 50V to 47uf @ 50V, Really! Should I be concerned? Any replyís? Have a great weekend guys and stay safe!!

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #275 on: April 03, 2020, 07:25:19 am »
http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Monitors/Electrohome%20G07%2013in%20and%2019in%20Color%20Raster.pdf

Isn't this the schematic?
Can you walk through the parts list and compare to this? 
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Asteroids, Galaga, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #276 on: April 03, 2020, 02:10:16 pm »
perkins, I have that list as well. Actually, there was only one value on the list and that was C411. The value on that schematic shows 100uf @ 160V. Isn't that funny, that one doesn't even match the one in my cap kit. That's why I so concerned. Have you seen any other information out there showing the values of the caps? But I think for that one, being that the 250 volts is a higher voltage than the 160, I think that one would be ok. Thanks for looking for me!

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #277 on: April 03, 2020, 02:19:32 pm »
I don't know much of anything about that monitor..   I would think (hope) the schematic matched..  if it doesn't - then that's a bigger issue.
I think you know - replacing a cap with equal capacitance is ok - high voltage rating is a bonus.   Just don't use a lower rated cap.  (which is on their instructions)

After that..   :dunno

Hopefully you can match things up...
My Arcade Cabinet Build and other projects here:
Centipede, Joust, Asteroids, Galaga, Space Invaders Cocktail
https://bperkins.wordpress.com/

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #278 on: April 06, 2020, 06:53:05 am »
Good morning all, after installing the Flyback the other day, I noticed a bracket of some sort on the coil. The bracket seems to have a solder type location on it where you could solder a wire to it. Please see pic below. There were no instructions that came with the flyback that referenced this bracket. Is anyone familiar with this? Is this a grounding bracket? Just guessing.
After making another round through the circuitry, I noticed a few more problems.  Two of the metal oxide resistors were out of spec. R904 is one of them. Itís rated as a 10K 2W 5% type resistor. It read 4.9 K. Also the R421 - 12K resistor was off as well. It read 8.73 K. Also noticed that my Large fuse (F902) was blown. Also doubled checked the H/Out and the voltage regulator transistors again and noticed that the H/Out was shorted. I think these additional casualties were caused when I plugged in the unit prior to installing the new flyback. I think once these parts are replaced I should be good. Iíll give another update at that time.

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Re: Atari Centipede Cocktail table game has no power
« Reply #279 on: April 14, 2020, 07:01:16 am »
Good morning all, Well, some of my electrical components finally came in the other day. One of the parts that I ordered was a replacement for the cracked Ceramic capacitor that is soldered to the H/Out transistor as seen in the above picture. That original cap is probably the size of a dime. The replacement part that came in is probably the size of a pea. Does that sound right? The part is a 151J which is a 150 pf 1.5 KV AC 5% Tolerance Ceramic cap. The description of the new part is identical (Actually a 2KV) but so much smaller. Should I be concerned?  Additionally, one of the 10K 2W resistors that showed a low ďin circuitĒ reading was actually very close to the 10K value after I removed it and retested it. I should probably just leave the resistors alone. Is that typical? That a resistor ďIn circuitĒ value will show a different reading after being removed from the circuit? Just a quick update on that above new flyback issue. What appears to be a soldering point tag was just a piece of plastic. Actually the entire flyback is like coated with a very thin layer of plastic. Iím not sure why. If all goes well, Iíll solder on that new Ceramic capacitor tonight and replace those bad fuses.  :)