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Author Topic: Talking Star Trek Picard  (Read 1756 times)

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Howard_Casto

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Talking Star Trek Picard
« on: January 23, 2020, 02:14:50 pm »
So the first episode of Picard is out.  It's a mixed bag but I'm hopeful.  I don't really think any of this would be considered a spoiler as it's prologue and you find out about most of it in the first five minutes... but fair warning. 

Ok let's get the bad stuff out of the way.  The plague that is Kurtzman is at it again, busting up canon left and right.   See when Starfleet figured out that Romulus was going to explode (See the crappy JJ Abrams movie) now Admiral Picard headed an effort to save all the Romulans via building a massive fleet of ships on Mars and then going to rescue them.  Sometime during this process, the synthetics (aka androids) working on Mars mysteriously attacked, killing 100k people and scrapping the mission, which caused Picard to resign as the federation refused to try and help the Romulans after that.  Ok full stop.  Remember how on numerous occasions on tng and later movies, including the last damn movie where Data says that he, along with his brothers, are the only androids in Starfleet and the only life forms of their kind known?  Yeah so where do all the other robots come from?  Hopefully this is the only huge thing they ---fudgesicle--- up.  I mean it's made clear in Voyager, DS9 and subsequent series that the future of artificial life is in hologram programs... why limit your AI to one physical form that can easily be destroyed?

Anyway, that caused Starfleet to put a ban on the creation of more androids, which of course haunts Picard as that truly kills Data since he'll never have kin ("Before" is dead and in a shelf btw) but surprise, surprise, that mysterious girl from the previews that is clearly Data's daughter turns out to be.... gasp.... Data's daughter.  The plot is convoluted as hell but it gets us to the good part, which is Picard is now headed towards a mission involving complex moral questions with the potential fate of a being or maybe race of beings hanging in the balance.  You know, Star Trek TNG at it's best.  The visuals are a mixed bag.  The show looks warm and inviting compared to the grim-dark fest that is Discovery.  The only issue is virtually any space scene or scene that would have involved those beautiful matte paintings back in the day is cgi… and for the most part the cgi is bad.  They have an interior shot of 10 forward and it looks worse than a video game from the 90s.  They need to throw this show some of Discovery's budget. 

So to summarize, brilliant acting, inviting visuals, good emotional core, which I suppose is the important stuff, but bad everything else. 

leapinlew

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2020, 12:55:07 am »
Timeline is going to get a little tricky, but, is it possible that Data doesn't know about the synthetics? The latest Rick and Morty when they had to assemble a crew has sort of ruined me on the movies that have to assemble a crew. It seems that is where this is headed.

I liked it. Enjoy the universe so far. Be interested to see how they handle some things. I'll keep watching.

Howard_Casto

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2020, 01:05:37 am »
Considering they were apparently working in the most famous ship yard in Starfleet I don't see how.  I watched it a second time and I liked it a bit more.  Something of note is that in Picard's archive room he had a bat'leth (probably gifted to him during one of his diplomatic interactions with the Klingons in tng) and it wasn't one of those overly ornate messes that they have on Discovery.  I sincerely hope that means if Klingons ever show up on this show they'll be real Klingons and not the awful turd monsters.  Also the girl looked a lot like Lull.  Subtle stuff like that makes me think the script writers are at least familiar with the source material, which is good. 

leapinlew

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2020, 01:46:42 am »
real Klingons and not the awful turd monsters. 

lol!

The Klingons are so bad on Discovery. They can't even speak they have so much gunk on their face.

Vigo

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2020, 12:33:08 pm »
Watched it last night. Decent first episode.  :cheers:

Howard_Casto

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2020, 03:13:43 pm »
real Klingons and not the awful turd monsters. 

lol!

The Klingons are so bad on Discovery. They can't even speak they have so much gunk on their face.

Whoever is doing the makeup on Discovery needs to be fired...twice just to make sure.  Take the species of the telarites…. this is how they looked on tos:
 
I mean yeah it's sort of piggish, but sfx were virtually non-existent at the time.  On Enterprise they did a thoughtful update of the makeup which looked like this:

Looks pretty believable right?  Now on Discovery they look like this:


Yeah a cartoon pig monster that looks like it should be on Power Rangers.... more so because the poor actor can barely move his face in the makeup, so you hear lines without any facial movement in the short trek that features him. 

pbj

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2020, 03:21:51 pm »
So is this show worth watching or not?  You love/hate everything and I can’t parse it out.

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Howard_Casto

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2020, 03:27:07 pm »
It has Sir Patrick in it so yes.  As I said the story is pretty decent so far.  I'm complaining about discovery btw.... no wonky looking aliens in Picard..... I mean it features Romulans that actually kind of look like Romulans.  (They got rid of the forehead bumps... probably because so many of the characters in the show will be Romulan.)

leapinlew

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2020, 04:38:41 pm »
Picard - promising, so far so good.

Discovery - canon breaking, silly story lines, but we keep watching!  :D

javeryh

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2020, 04:54:12 pm »
That guy's nose looks like 2 vaginas haha.

I'm going to watch Picard but I'll probably wait until all episodes are out and then just grab them from somewhere...

DaOld Man

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2020, 03:59:03 pm »
That guy's nose looks like 2 vaginas haha.

I'm going to watch Picard but I'll probably wait until all episodes are out and then just grab them from somewhere...

You know you just opened the door to all sorts of comments LOL

opt2not

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 04:20:02 pm »

Howard_Casto

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 11:18:25 pm »
I saw that one.  They are waaaaaaaay too hard on it and don't seem to understand Picard and Data's relationship but on a superficial level.  Picard is haunted by Data's death because he was one of a kind and Data Sacrificed himself for Picard.  Also Picard had been mentoring him for years....that was the closest thing he's ever had to a son.  I thought that was pretty obvious.  They do make a couple of good points, but that's about it.  I do think those guys are entertaining, it's just.... well they think First Contact is a bad film.  Granted it's kind of dumb in spots, but it's a fantastic film overall. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2020, 11:41:11 am »
Red Letter Media pretty much hates everything so take it with a grain of salt...

Osirus23

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2020, 12:03:51 pm »
I haven't watched this but I was told that it contains flashbacks to events that happened right after Nemesis,  but are set on the Enterprise D using CG sets. Is that true? Because that sounds exactly like what these Kurtzman Klowns would do.

pbj

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2020, 12:07:54 pm »
Red Letter Media pretty much hates everything so take it with a grain of salt...

They single-handedly got everyone to retroactively hate The Phantom Menance, so they've got that going for them which is... nice?

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2020, 01:11:56 pm »
I haven't watched this but I was told that it contains flashbacks to events that happened right after Nemesis,  but are set on the Enterprise D using CG sets. Is that true? Because that sounds exactly like what these Kurtzman Klowns would do.

No not at all.  Picard is having dreams about Data, so it would be weird if anything made too much sense.  Like I mentioned though, the cgi is horrible and yes, that includes the wide shot of the inside of 10 forward and the glamor shot of the Enterprise D. 

As for the Phantom Menace, I saw that in theatres.  We were all excited since it was the first Star Wars in forever (Which typically makes us like a bad film more) and the best me and my friends could say coming out of the theatre was "eh it wasn't terrible".  So there's no retroactively  about it... that flick sucks. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2020, 01:53:32 pm »
The "RLM made people hate the prequels" line is one of the dumbest attempts at revisionism I have encountered on the web. Hell I can remember waiting in the theater for Attack of the Clones to start and hearing people around me talk about how they hoped it wasn't as bad as The Phantom Menace* and that they hope Jar Jar isn't in it.  :lol

* It was worse.

Vigo

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2020, 04:52:01 pm »
I do think those guys are entertaining, it's just.... well they think First Contact is a bad film.  Granted it's kind of dumb in spots, but it's a fantastic film overall.

Best movie of the TNG series. And they didn't use it to kill Kirk.

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2020, 05:33:24 pm »
The "RLM made people hate the prequels" line is one of the dumbest attempts at revisionism I have encountered on the web.

Ehh.... I think there was a brief period of time between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones where people were like, "it was okay... hopefully the next one is better."  And then Attack of the Clones came out and was awful and that was that.  I've never been able to finish Attack of the Clones in one sitting, or Solo or Last Jedi.  I would have walked out of Rogue One if I hadn't paid for it.  I enjoyed Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens.


 :cheers:


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Osirus23

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2020, 06:52:48 pm »
As time passed TPM has definitely emerged as the best of the prequel trilogy.

First Contact was the best TNG film for sure, possibly the only one I would categorize as good. Generations was ugly and had some rage-inducing plot holes. Insurrection had some decent scenes but wasn't really interesting. The whole thing felt rather pointless. Nemesis was directed by a guy who didn't know anything about Star Trek and refused to even try to familiarize himself with it, and it shows.

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2020, 08:12:40 pm »
Insurrection is actually pretty decent.  The problem with it is it isn't a movie... it's a two part episode from tng and the stakes aren't big enough for the big screen.  Nemesis is an abomination and I think the reason modern star trek is so bad is because lazy directors just watch the last film of a franchise (nemesis) to familiarize themselves with it.  Generations has serious issues, but there are two or three scenes in it that kind of make it worth watching. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2020, 09:18:12 pm »
I liked those movies okay but got a little tired of Data learning about emotions. First Contact was good. Rewatched it recently. I've seen maybe 3 or 4 actual episodes of star trek but enjoy the movies. Second newer one was pretty bad, though. Into Darkness? Some ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- like that.
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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2020, 09:15:49 am »
First Contact is a good action movie AND a good Star Trek movie.  Not easy to pull off.  It's definitely the best one out of the TNG cast.  Generations was.. eh.  I didn't really like it - feels like they shoehorned Kirk into the plot for no reason.  Insurrection and Nemesis were bad.  They would have been bad TV episodes too. 

I have only seen the first 2 of the "new" Star Trek movies.  Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness.  The first one was good and the second one was OK.  Not bad but not that memorable either.  I plan to watch Star Trek Beyond soon.  I like the new cast and hope they come back for another one.

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2020, 09:25:04 am »
Ok I will start by saying I am not a Treky, I enjoyed watching the original 2 series with Kirk and Picard and that was where my involvement ended, Never watched a single episode of any of the newer versions.

But someone convinced me to give this a watch, So I did and I enjoyed the 1st episode.
I obviously have no back story to go with it but it told it all to me (I think) So I have some context.

The only thing I am unsure of and if its not going to involve spoilers maybe someone can tell me...
What happened to Data?
I know Picard said he sacrificed himself and I have some kind of memory of the sort but cant remember, Was that in one of the movies?


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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2020, 10:37:31 am »
Picard didn't properly backup his Data.  ;D


It's just the ending of Nemesis, which is a bad enough movie nobody can feel spoiled by the ending being revealed. Watch these.







Howard_Casto

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2020, 01:51:30 pm »
I watched episode 2.  Dear god, did they have a budget of $500 for each episode.... $499 of which Kurtzman spent needlessly putting holograms and floating displays (which are completely impractical) everywhere.  Picard goes to Star Fleet, which is obviously the front of a real life convention center now, via these fancy transporter gates to physically open a MANUAL DOOR at the entrance with frikkin 20th century gas door closers at the top.  Yes what should be the most modern building on the planet doesn't even have the technology we have in grocery stores today.  Oh but they have frikkin holograms of the enterprise d projected on the ceiling so I guess that makes it the future.  Oh and hologram communications from discovery and their weird "are they solid or not" properties make an appearance.

They really aren't getting the TNG aesthetic on the show....sets had a physicality to them back then, partially  due to the budget, but also because I liked to believe people of the future would learn to appreciate things for their timeless function/form rather than be obsessed with the bleeding edge tech of the day.  I'm sure you could project translucent view screens into the air even back then, but the thing is translucent view screens are kind of bad at letting you, you know, VIEW THINGS.  We have similar tech available right now, but we rarely use it for that reason.  Remember when windows xp added translucent windows support?  Remember how quickly that fad died?

The story is getting slightly muddled in Kurtzmanisms as well.  I'm hoping once they get off Earth... IF they get off Earth, things will turn around as they'll most likely be on sets instead of real world locations most of the time.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 01:53:26 pm by Howard_Casto »

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2020, 04:09:01 pm »
You know, I'm trying to stay positive, but I think ep 3 was intentionally designed to make my head explode.  The kurtzman-verse is busting up canon left and right.  So Raffi is jealous of Picard's chateau like he paid for it.  He didn't.... money doesn't exist on earth and if she's living in a hobble then it's by choice because the federation will provide a nice home to anyone that needs one.  Then we get two people smoking... except humans don't smoke in the future.  As a matter of fact Gene Roddenberry himself refused to do tobacco ads on TOS or allow the cast to do so as he explicitly states that humanity has given up all it's vices by the 23rd century.  This was up-held on every single solitary show in the franchise.  Oh and the frikkin vape pen was a nice touch.... do we want to write the frikkin year of 2020 in magic marker over every frame of the show, because with such a reference they basically have already.  We've also got a emh on the new ship.... weren't synths banned?  EMH programs have been more than proven to be sentient due to the doctor on Voyager so they are synthetic life as well.  So those were the only Romulans to ever be assimilated.... except..... nope.... there was an episode of Voyager where the crew encountered a colony of de-assimilated borg.  One of them was Romulan.  I would say that it's no big deal... that Hue just didn't know, except it seems that this is going to be an important plot point later. 

I just don't get this show.  There are a ton of nerdy references, but there are also a ton of plot-holes.  It's almost like it was written by committee or something.  It's almost as if they didn't have a consultant that has watched every single solitary episode of every series multiple times, because at this point you do need that.  Some of the worst episodes in the history of the franchise were bad mostly because the people writing it weren't properly versed in the source material, nor were their scripts vetted to make sure they fit with canon. 

Oh well... they are finally in space so hopefully things will get better. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2020, 08:01:08 pm »
No vices? Sure, you'll live longer. But will you really want to?
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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2020, 08:23:59 pm »
They really aren't getting the TNG aesthetic on the show....sets had a physicality to them back then, partially  due to the budget, but also because I liked to believe people of the future would learn to appreciate things for their timeless function/form rather than be obsessed with the bleeding edge tech of the day.

In fairness they initially had 3D holograms in TNG, but didn't continue with them for budget reasons.

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2020, 01:14:03 am »
No they had pads man.  You know, like what inspired the ipad?  They also had view screens, like a modern day monitor.  That's because those two techs are extremely practical.   As for communication, the only time they showed a holographic communication was during an episode of DS9.... it was an experimental system installed on the defiant.  Everyone pretty much dismissed it as impractical by the end of the episode.  Now Tasha gave Data a little holographic projection of herself, but that was a little desktop what-not... something you could probably replicate with present day tech.  Honestly if Discovery wasn't doing it I wouldn't have as big a problem with it, but they are basically trying to re-write canon saying that they always had communication holograms, which makes the 1000 or so times they used view screens and the zero times they used holograms as communication on the various shows seem kind of odd. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2020, 06:40:07 pm »
No they had pads man.  You know, like what inspired the ipad?  They also had view screens, like a modern day monitor.  That's because those two techs are extremely practical.   As for communication, the only time they showed a holographic communication was during an episode of DS9.... it was an experimental system installed on the defiant.  Everyone pretty much dismissed it as impractical by the end of the episode.  Now Tasha gave Data a little holographic projection of herself, but that was a little desktop what-not... something you could probably replicate with present day tech.  Honestly if Discovery wasn't doing it I wouldn't have as big a problem with it, but they are basically trying to re-write canon saying that they always had communication holograms, which makes the 1000 or so times they used view screens and the zero times they used holograms as communication on the various shows seem kind of odd.

There were more examples of hologram technology in TNG than just the Tasha thing. Like I said, if they'd had the budget for it, it probably would have been far more commonplace in TNG.

You can see a bunch of examples in this video:



On a related note, they also used perspective correct images on viewscreens, suggesting the images on them were in fact fully 3D and not just 2D displays.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 06:43:54 pm by shponglefan »

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2020, 03:51:59 am »
I think you misunderstand.  It's not that the technology wasn't available, it's that they didn't use it.  They have the frikkin holodeck, of course they can make holographic projections.  the point is other than the DS9 episode it was never used for communication once in 50 years.  Keep in mind that Kurtzman is trying to retcon TOS to have holograms as well and they definitely didn't use the tech back then.  Like I said, holographic what-nots and do-dads sure, but not magical holograms that you can walk through and yet they touch your cheek or can sit on a desk on your end of the communication, which makes zero sense. 

Holograms are a Star Wars thing, because they only make sense to use if you don't think about it... just like Star Wars.  People need to quit trying to make Star Trek into Star Wars.... JJ already tried it and their reboot, while popular, burned out after only three films because all spectacle and no substance doesn't work for Star Trek.  If you are going to ret-con something into Star Trek you better have a good reason and the "because it looks cool" reason only successfully worked for the redesign of the Klingons... the first time, not the new turd monsters. 

leapinlew

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2020, 09:52:12 pm »
Summary up to this point


Howard_Casto

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2020, 02:22:42 am »
Yeah kind of sad they wasted three episodes out of ten just for exposition and crew assemblage.  I guess they had to slow it down for the normies to be able to follow.  Meanwhile I've got seven seasons of voyager floating around in my head and I'm at bated breath wondering if Chakotay and Seven got married since the finale.  (I'm kidding.... dear god I'm kidding.) Ugh I've typed out the worst possible idea... I think when that happens Kurtzman appears in your mirror and writes up the script. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2020, 08:27:26 pm »
real Klingons and not the awful turd monsters. 

lol!

The Klingons are so bad on Discovery. They can't even speak they have so much gunk on their face.

Whoever is doing the makeup on Discovery needs to be fired...twice just to make sure.  Take the species of the telarites…. this is how they looked on tos:
 
I mean yeah it's sort of piggish, but sfx were virtually non-existent at the time.  On Enterprise they did a thoughtful update of the makeup which looked like this:

Looks pretty believable right?  Now on Discovery they look like this:


Yeah a cartoon pig monster that looks like it should be on Power Rangers.... more so because the poor actor can barely move his face in the makeup, so you hear lines without any facial movement in the short trek that features him.

# 1 frightening to me. where the hell are that dude's eyes? it's just sockets.
#2 that jutting down lower lip makes me want to punch them in the face. but i agree not bad.
#3, i can't even imagine a species evolving into having a giant moist obviously sensitive and vulnerable target for a fist in the middle of their face.

now I gotta go find these episodes and see what is going on.
also, is discovery still on?
I just lost interest in it at the beginning of season 2.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 08:29:58 pm by nitrogen_widget »

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2020, 08:41:02 pm »
I think they were trying to give the impression that he had solid black eyes on tos…. the hd restoration kind of ruins the illusion. 

It's still on... I don't think season 3 starts until this winter.  Season 2 is ok in the episodes where they aren't really focusing on the over-arcing plot but boy does said plot lack any sense. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2020, 08:52:56 pm »
So episode 4 is good!  No complaints... felt like a proper Star Trek episode finally.  I'm sure that has a lot to do with Frakes directing it.  I liked the flashbacks and how Picard was acting very Picard-like, standing up for his beliefs and stuff.   Of course that's all b-plot.  It's the a-plot that concerns me... this whole "destroyer" prophecy concerns me... it just seems a bit stupid and hokey.  Thankfully this episode didn't have much of that which made it a lot more entertaining.  The previews for the next episode concerns me though.  It looks like they are going to have to deal with 24th century pop-up ads... which, if they aren't related to Ferengi aren't really going to fit in with the Star Trek universe... it's kind of like the stupid vape pen.  Frakes will still be directing though and he's an expert turd polisher, so he should be able to salvage even a poorly written episode. 

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2020, 10:35:07 pm »
So episode 4 is good!  No complaints... felt like a proper Star Trek episode finally.  I'm sure that has a lot to do with Frakes directing it.  I liked the flashbacks and how Picard was acting very Picard-like, standing up for his beliefs and stuff.   Of course that's all b-plot.  It's the a-plot that concerns me... this whole "destroyer" prophecy concerns me... it just seems a bit stupid and hokey.  Thankfully this episode didn't have much of that which made it a lot more entertaining.  The previews for the next episode concerns me though.  It looks like they are going to have to deal with 24th century pop-up ads... which, if they aren't related to Ferengi aren't really going to fit in with the Star Trek universe... it's kind of like the stupid vape pen.  Frakes will still be directing though and he's an expert turd polisher, so he should be able to salvage even a poorly written episode.

I liked it.

Clearly the Asian kid has some abandonment issues with Picard, so we can look forward to some story arc where they learn to be friends again. Picard has been kind of full of himself with these episodes, saying things like he just needs a starship and willing to take a demotion and "did you tell them it's me".

I'm interested to hear why 7 of 9 was on a kamikaze run. She's still easy on the eyes.

The destroyer prophecies.... I'm really hoping they can pull that out. The whole idea of a destiny laid out from many years ago is eye roll worthy to me.

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Re: Talking Star Trek Picard
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2020, 11:14:31 pm »
Yeah because Star Trek is about science, not religion.  Prophecies like that really fall into the religion territory.  Yes, yes, I know DS9 leaned heavily into religion, but in the end they were aliens, and DS9, while a fantastic show, isn't good Star Trek. 

Picard has always been a little bit pompous and at this stage in his life he should be.  All of those achievements the emh rattled off were 100% accurate, and that wasn't even all of them.  If Picard says jump, you should really only ask how high.  He's like the Batman of the Star Trek universe... perhaps only Kirk has done as much as he has. 

I'm convinced that Jerri Ryan is aging backwards just to mess with people.   Did you notice that her ship looked a lot like the Delta Flyer, only with green Borg tech?