1UP Arcade is planning to sell full kits and cabinets!

[Marc]

1up, I've got a couple questions/comments about the controls...  

1.) It looks like the Tron handles (looks like you'll be replacing these with trigger sticks) are a bit close together on the second control panel.  Is there anything keeping you from moving the right side one a little further over towards the right, besides the fact that the panel looks better when it's totally symmetrical?  It seems like 2 player games that use this panel might have the participants bumping into each other.     Moving the sticks further apart would also seem to leave more room between them for accessing the spinner and the trackball (looks kinda tight in there now)...

2.) I've seen that virtually all the combination control panels available today (with the 8 way sticks) have the 4 way stick way up at the top of the panel.  while this configuration doesn't look like an issue with a standalone controller(where the display is positioned wherever makes sense), with a cabinet setup it seems like this would have the player hunched over the control panel with their head right up against the monitor glass.  Is there some logistical problem with moving the 4 way further back into the center of the panel or even way back to the bottom side?  This seems like it would be a much preferable setup for the 4 way without interfering much at all with the 8 ways...

3.) With the steering wheel option on the 3rd control panel will there be any additional controls?  I'm just wondering what games will be of much use with just the wheel and no pedals...  

I'm a novice with this stuff, and to this juncture am not incredibly familiar with most of the games supported by MAME.  So I may be off-base here, but I'm a bit more concerned with having ergononmically comfortable and useable controls as opposed to perfect symmetry (for the controls) of appearance...

Just some thoughts.


p.s.  I also sent you email with these same comments
 
p.p.s.  By the way, guys, I'm one of the ones on 1up's mailing list and waiting anxiously for the production cabinets...    

[1UP]

1.) It looks like the Tron handles (looks like you'll be replacing these with trigger sticks) are a bit close together on the second control panel.  Is there anything keeping you from moving the right side one a little further over towards the right, besides the fact that the panel looks better when it's totally symmetrical?  It seems like 2 player games that use this panel might have the participants bumping into each other.     Moving the sticks further apart would also seem to leave more room between them for accessing the spinner and the trackball (looks kinda tight in there now)...

The only reason they are so close together is that I like to stand centered when playing 1 player dual stick games like Battlezone.  I don't know of any 2 player games that use trigger sticks, so this was not even a consideration.  (I know they probably exist, but I've never played them.  If you can think of any, let me know.)  

The panel was pretty much designed to play Battle Zone, Missile Command, Tempest, and Tron.  When I designed my prototype for this panel, I basically just held my hands where they felt comfortable, marked the board and drilled.  Actually, I did put a lot more thought than that into the layout of the Tron panel.  I measured it to be symmetrical and made sure there was enough room to mount the trackball in between.  The placement of the trackball and spinner were carefully considered, so that none interferes with the other.  There are several inches of spare room around my hands at all times.  I have never found this arrangement to be uncomfortable or awkward.

2.) I've seen that virtually all the combination control panels available today (with the 8 way sticks) have the 4 way stick way up at the top of the panel.  while this configuration doesn't look like an issue with a standalone controller(where the display is positioned wherever makes sense), with a cabinet setup it seems like this would have the player hunched over the control panel with their head right up against the monitor glass.  Is there some logistical problem with moving the 4 way further back into the center of the panel or even way back to the bottom side?  This seems like it would be a much preferable setup for the 4 way without interfering much at all with the 8 ways...

Something I've learned during this project, is that if everyone does something exactly the same way, then there's a reason for it.  Moving the 4 way down to the center brings it much closer to player 2's hand.  Bring it down to the front edge of the panel, and it's a fraction of an inch from his wrist.  This virtually assures that at some point, player 2's hand will bump the 4-way, which is daisy chained to player 1's stick.  Bumping elbows is one thing, it's quite another when you're actually moving the other player's joystick.  Take a look at the pic below, and tell me which position is least likely to cause problems:

Another reason for this arrangement is that it's usually better to have your buttons either directly to the side of the stick, or slightly lower than the stick--it's just more comfortable that way.  I would feel very uncomfortable playing Galaga with the stick down near the front of the panel.  Besides, my 4 way is only 2 inches farther back than the 8 ways.  I can switch from using the left stick to the middle stick without changing my position at all, other than a slight side-step to recenter myself.  Two inches is not enough to make you go from a comfortable upright position to hunched over with forehead pressed to plexi unless you're Mini Me.

3.) With the steering wheel option on the 3rd control panel will there be any additional controls?  I'm just wondering what games will be of much use with just the wheel and no pedals...  

I thought that I had mentioned this before but...pedals will be another add-on option.  I am devising a way to have them mounted on a base that clamps to the bottom edge of the front kickplate.  My intention is to make the wheel and yoke interchangeable, so you don't have to choose one or the other.  Of course, if you go for a yoke instead, you don't really need pedals, as the y-axis works well as an accelerator and brake.  I've personally used my yoke as steering wheel and accelerator in Spy Hunter, with good results.

[Marc]

Thanks for the responses.  They all make sense.  You *had* mentioned the pedals before, but it seemed like you meant they'd be available in the future and not necessarily along with initial cabinet builds...

And since I'm not the size of mini me I guess there's not an issue with the 4 way...    

[XtraSmiley]

I was going to buy a slikstik quad in 3-5 months time will ALL the fixins.  Price is not a barrier, but looks/functions/quality is.  I'm not sure I like the way your product looks yet (not that I don't like them, just not sure), but the functions are awesome.  Slikstik looks more professional, but I realize you are just starting (and that was your home one on the website).  I'd like to be kept updated on your progress.  Once you are done, if it looks like a pro job, I will not not let price be a factor in which product I choose.  Also, I'm looking at the kit as opposed to the fully built b/c I like to do a bit of it myself (even though you real "pros" like to build from scratch)!  Thanks, and even if I go with SS, you are doing a damn fine job!

[1UP]

I was going to buy a slikstik quad in 3-5 months time will ALL the fixins.  Price is not a barrier, but looks/functions/quality is.  I'm not sure I like the way your product looks yet (not that I don't like them, just not sure), but the functions are awesome.  Slikstik looks more professional, but I realize you are just starting (and that was your home one on the website).  I'd like to be kept updated on your progress.  Once you are done, if it looks like a pro job, I will not not let price be a factor in which product I choose.  Also, I'm looking at the kit as opposed to the fully built b/c I like to do a bit of it myself (even though you real "pros" like to build from scratch)!  Thanks, and even if I go with SS, you are doing a damn fine job!

Heheh...you should see what I have on my screen right now!    As I said before, this is not just a rebuild, but a whole new design!  I am taking several steps to ensure that my production cabinets will be worthy of your game room.

First, I am in the process of modifying my 3D model as we speak, adding improvements, removing unnecessary parts, drafting new and improved parts, evaluating new materials etc.  I am also creating new graphics to go on the panels and marquee, partly to avoid any copyright problems I would have if I marketed the cab with Pac-Man, Tron and -gasp- Star Wars graphics!    The new graphics will also improve the look of the product, and hopefully add a more broad appeal.  I do realize that my favorite games are not necessarily everyone else's!

I am also right in the middle of upgrading and finally putting the finishing touches on my home cab.  In the process, I am finding that certain parts have worn faster than I anticipated, and others have not performed as well as I had hoped.  While I am very satisfied with the layout of my controls, I am rethinking some of my control choices for functional and aestetic reasons.  All of these observations will result in improvements in the final product.

The third thing I will be doing is a little bit of lab research.  This means putting my finished home cab into an environment where it will be played constantly.  The plan is to finish the last little touches tomorrow, then haul my cab down to the studio in Santa Monica where I work, and let everyone do their worst.  I realize that it may end up getting damaged, but it will be worth it to discover how user friendly the rotation feature is, how often it gets used, and how much damage can be done by those who may be a little careless with it.  All this info will go into further design changes, for a hopefully foolproof product.

Once all this is done, I will spit out a CAD drawing, have the cabinet shop do the CNC programming, and start crankin' out cabs!  The final production model should have a lot more fit and finish, considering how many complements I get on the professional look (at least on the outside...) of my home cab.  My cab is a total homebrewed hack job, done with absolutely no knowledge of profesional woodworking -- imagine what professional cabinet makers can do with it!

Lastly, I will be using custom machined parts for the rotation mechanism, no more hacked Home Depot stuff!  This will result in a smoother, tighter locking mechanism.  All the externally visible screws and marquee/bezel retainers will be anodized black.  The marquee will probably be back-printed right on the lexan.

Have I convinced you yet?  

[SirPeale]

Good luck with your endeavor!  Your cab and website were an encouragment to my own arcade cab building.  

It's MrBond!  Where have you been?

[FractalWalk]

"In the process, I am finding that certain parts have worn faster than I anticipated, and others have not performed as well as I had hoped. "

Care to comment on what is not working well? I am nearing completion of my cab which mimics your design.  

[1UP]

"In the process, I am finding that certain parts have worn faster than I anticipated, and others have not performed as well as I had hoped. "

Care to comment on what is not working well? I am nearing completion of my cab which mimics your design.  

It's not really a lot.  The main problems with the old design were with the front door.  I found that unless I was careful closing the door after changing panels, the top edge of the door could end up damaging or ripping off the t-molding I used along the edge that rests on top of the door.

I have since remedied this by putting a beveled edge on the inside of the door's top edge using a router, and re-applying some iron-on edging to protect the wood.  This is a decent solution for my home cab, as the beveled edge actually pushes up the edge of the panel assembly if it is too low.  However, the melamine edging will show some wear over time.  In the production model, the security bar along the top will have an additional slanted lip welded on that protects the edge of the door and the panels.

The other problem I had with the front door when it was first installed is that it was much wider than it is tall, and the weight of the coin door tends to pull it downward, causing it to be a bit crooked when closed, and it didn't support the front of the panels properly.  I have addressed this problem on my cab by attaching a metal supporting bar below the door, and beveling the bottom edge like the top edge, so it is automatically pushed back up as the door closes.

In the production model, the door will simply be made taller, so that it is more square and there will be more hinge to support it.

And there are just a lot of little things that, while not really troublesome, just don't look as professional as I would like.  I won't go into them here, but they will definitely be addressed in the production model.  Also, by rethinking some of my design, I have been able to eliminate a lot of parts, which will make building cheaper and simpler.  Sorry I can't go into all of them, I've literally got a thousand things to do in preparation for production!  At this point, I'm trying to put my first cab behind me and move on to better things.

[arcadecab]

"I was going to buy a slikstik quad in 3-5 months time will ALL the fixins.  Price is not a barrier, but looks/functions/quality is.  I'm not sure I like the way your product looks yet (not that I don't like them, just not sure), but the functions are awesome.  Slikstik looks more professional, but I realize you are just starting (and that was your home one on the website).  I'd like to be kept updated on your progress.  Once you are done, if it looks like a pro job, I will not not let price be a factor in which product I choose.  Also, I'm looking at the kit as opposed to the fully built b/c I like to do a bit of it myself (even though you real "pros" like to build from scratch)!  Thanks, and even if I go with SS, you are doing a damn fine job!"

I was one, like Xtrasmiley from above, that was also looking at the Slikstik Quad controller based on its nice look and function (basically any button/feature you would want on one 4-player CP).  But if the 4 player CP (panel-1) of this cabinet can reach that level of build and button options (minus the trackball and spinner that are probably on a separate panel), I am all for it.  It will be interesting to see the finished plans.  Can you foresee anything that this cabinet and CP options wont be able to do compared to a Slikstik Quad CP and cabinet build?
A couple more questions:  I noticed that many of the MAME cabinets and CPs allow for a hidden keyboard slideout option to operate the system as a regular PC or for setup reasons, but then is extremely hidden for arcade applications.  Would this setup allow for a keyboard option?  I want to be able to operate the cabinet without a keyboard, but thinking it "may" be nice to use it if "needed".
Also, with the 4-player cabinet, would a 4 coinslot be available?
Those are the only things that I can think of that would hold back this design compared to others.  But based on these, I think this could very well be the "ultimate" cabinet build.

[1UP]

I was one, like Xtrasmiley from above, that was also looking at the Slikstik Quad controller based on its nice look and function (basically any button/feature you would want on one 4-player CP).  But if the 4 player CP (panel-1) of this cabinet can reach that level of build and button options (minus the trackball and spinner that are probably on a separate panel), I am all for it.  It will be interesting to see the finished plans.  Can you foresee anything that this cabinet and CP options wont be able to do compared to a Slikstik Quad CP and cabinet build?

Let's see: 4 competition sticks, a 4-way, a spinner and trackball.  I think I've got it covered.  But can you play Battlezone or Discs of Tron on a Quad?  

A couple more questions:  I noticed that many of the MAME cabinets and CPs allow for a hidden keyboard slideout option to operate the system as a regular PC or for setup reasons, but then is extremely hidden for arcade applications.  Would this setup allow for a keyboard option?  I want to be able to operate the cabinet without a keyboard, but thinking it "may" be nice to use it if "needed".

Keyboard access has not been a priority for me.  I usually only need it when I setup the FE for the first time, or add ROMS.  It would be difficult with my rotating setup to have the type of slide-out design most cabs use.  Since I only use my machine for what it was intended (gaming) I don't see the need to have it double as a computer desk.  That's one thing I think makes the Hanaho look cheap is the visible keyboard drawer.   Right now I have a small keyboard resting on top of the PC attached to the rear door, which really only takes a few seconds to get to.  The trackball and player start buttons act as a mouse.   If people think a slideout drawer is a necessity, I will consider adding it, but you will have some sort of keyboard access nevertheless.  perhaps I'll add a keyboard velcroed to the inside of the front door...

Also, with the 4-player cabinet, would a 4 coinslot be available?
Those are the only things that I can think of that would hold back this design compared to others.  But based on these, I think this could very well be the "ultimate" cabinet build.

I don't see why not.  I'm thinking the 4 player may be a more deluxe model, maybe with some other features as well...  

[1UP]

Just an update:

Well, it's the end of February but I don't have my quote yet.  There are two reasons for this: 1) I am scrambling to finish my home cab so I can bring it to work as a guinea pig starting this weekend.  This will only benefit the upcoming redesign!  

2) I am, well, redesigning the LOOK of the cab, as well as hopefully improving functionality.  While this slows things down a bit, it will make the cabs cheaper down the road than if I just crank out the kits "as is" and have to pay the shop to reprogram the CNC for the new and improved cabs later.

I still intend to have the cabs in production some time in march, and we will hopefully have a quote from the shop within the next week, once the distraction of my home cab is gone...  I'll be fixing it up until Friday, then it is what it is, and I'm on to the new cabs.

I am working right now to make sure that the Tron sticks can stay in the mix, and I also have some much bigger surprises in the works...let's just say that there may be more than just the basic cab to choose from for those who want something a little more fancy!  

[Lilwolf]

As for the keyboard drawer question above..

If you REALLY want the kick ass super setup... there are $40 (probably cheaper now) RF keyboards that would be a great addition.

Nice little addon so people can go 100% without opening the cab.

You might also consider adding a network plugin on the back at some point when selling it with a computer.  Really a useful touch.

[XtraSmiley]

Just an update:  ...for those who want something a little more fancy!  

Whoo-hoo, that's ME!  Can't wait to see the end result man!

[1UP]

As for the keyboard drawer question above..

If you REALLY want the kick ass super setup... there are $40 (probably cheaper now) RF keyboards that would be a great addition.

Nice little addon so people can go 100% without opening the cab.

You might also consider adding a network plugin on the back at some point when selling it with a computer.  Really a useful touch.

I am working on a keyboard solution.  As far as networking, I routed a slot down from the top edge of the back kickplate to allow my power cord to exit the cab.  It is more than large enough for a couple extra cords: network, gamepads, keyboard whatever you want.

[arcadecab]

1up,

"let's just say that there may be more than just the basic cab to choose from for those who want something a little more fancy!"

Perhaps you cant, but can you elaborate at all on the "fancier" cabinets?  That is perhaps what I would be looking for--very curious to see what surprises you have in store and I like the idea of updating the look.  Any clues or hints?  Cant wait to see what you have in store.  Keep up the good work.

[1UP]

I'll just say this:  I'm spending some time looking at the competition's cabs, looking at some classic and interesting looking cabs, and making my own interpretation of what a truly "ultimate" cab can be.  Some very interesting sketches on my desk...

[1UP]

Just a side note: The cabinet is a big hit at work!  By bringing it in, I have singlehandedly brought work to a standstill...and I haven't even unveiled the rotating function yet.  Just wait until I get those backlit Tron stick re-mounted...heheh!  

Finally, a way to show off my Space Ace skills!

[arcadecab]

1up,

Any idea when some pricing and final images will be available?  Especially the 4-player "deluxe" model that you are thinking of.
Any previews?
Thanks.

[dema]

Any idea when the prototypes are going to be available to view? Any idea when they'll go on sale? I'm holding off on building my cabinet until I can see what you have to offer. I'd hate to start work on a cabinet only to fall in love with something you come up with instead. Since this is my first woodworking project I'm starting to question whether or not I'm capable of doing things to the type of specs and quality I'd like to have when all is said and done.

[1UP]

Sorry, I've been busy with tax and legal stuff...    I should be drawing up the final design by the end of this week, and I'll send the CAD file to the builder next Monday or so.  He should be able to give me a quote within a day or two after that, at which point I'll be able to give a rough price.

I will have to have them build a prototype at my expense first, to make sure the quality is up to snuff and there are no production snags or hidden costs before I can give a final price or take orders.  But if all goes well, I expect to start taking orders by the end of March.

As soon as I have pictures or renderings of the production model, I'll post them.

[snekse]

But if all goes well, I expect to start taking orders by the end of March.

Did I miss something?  What's the latest update on this?

As for the "Ultimate Cab", here's my $0.02 - I was basically planning on using your CP, but in a 4 player theatre style cabinet in which the WHOLE CP rotates - no attachments required.  So it would look similiar to this:

http://www.dreamauthentics.com/index_mega.htm

But the section under the CP would be as wide as the CP itself.  This would allow plenty of room for a dual steering wheel CP and a Star Wars/Top Gun CP.

As for the pedals, if you're willing to forego a coin door, you could have an 'L' shaped "door" that flips down, pivoting on the "corner" of the 'L'.  Think corny computers fliping out of the glove comparntment of the Batmobile here.  Below is the best I can do to illistrate it at this time.

(The slash is the pedal)
 
Tucked Away

.     |
    /|
_____|

Pulled Out
    |
    |
    |_\_


If you needed to, you could place the pivot point a little further back inside the cab to compensate for the pivot not being at ground level.  I hope that makes sense.  Interested to know what you think of these ideas.  I'm several months away from starting my cab, so if I see yours and I like it, I'd much rather just buy a kit from you.  Yours is by far the best I've seen to date, but I'd really like to have the entire 4 player CP rotate.  It just seems to me like if opens up so many options that way.

Oh, one last thing.  The reason I was going to build a theatre style arcade is because I'm a Golden Tee fanatic and I had concerns over playing GT on your current setup.  I think the monitor angle (or lack there of) could be an issue.  Have you played GT on your setup yet?

Thanks for all your hard work and creativity.
-snekse

[1UP]

But if all goes well, I expect to start taking orders by the end of March.

Did I miss something?  What's the latest update on this?

No updates yet.  I am planning to get this rolling sometime this summer, but I can't tell you exactly when.

You may be interested in my plans for additional designs once I get the first line of machines cranked out.  Something like a rotating showcase cab may be next on my list...  

[AmericanDemon]

Uhm sign me up for that rotating showcase.

I wish there was a kit for a showcase.  

[snekse]

I wish there was a kit for a showcase.  

Just so I'm clear, is a showcase cab the same thing as what I referred to as a theatre style cab?

[AmericanDemon]

This is all about Showcase Cabs - http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=19851