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Author Topic: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?  (Read 1697 times)

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Gandalf68

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31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« on: February 11, 2019, 04:56:00 am »
Hi guys !
I was wondering: Since I installed the calamity drivers for my graphic card to display 15Hz, how come when I run a game that requires 31 Hz, it still works? For example, Xii Stag runs under groovyMAME in my MAMECab. Is this normal?

I'm using Windows 7 with a Radeon HD5450 on a Sega Net City (TATE)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:54:36 am by Gandalf68 »


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 06:14:32 am »
Under your GM setup you're obviously "redefining" the output requirements. A 31-kHz game turns into a 15-kHz without changing the display resolution (progressive turns into interlaced mode).

Said that, XII Stag did never require 31 kHz. It ran on Taito's G-Net system board, which only output at 15 kHz through JAMMA. XII Stag isn't even a hi-res game.

Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 06:45:20 am »
I used this site for the game's specs :

http://adb.arcadeitalia.net/dettaglio_mame.php?game_name=xiistag&arcade_only=0&autosearch=1&lang=en

Maybe their info are wrong ?

Anyway, I still have a problem : every time i launch a game (and pretty much all of my games are in 15Hz), we can hear that there is a clatter (most likely a frequency change)
But here's my configuration :

Windows 7, Radeon HD5450, Calamity Drivers+CRT Emudriver to display 15Hz with my graphics card, GroovyMAME 0.205, Hyperspin)
-> How is it that the screen changes frequency when i launch a game since everything is in 15Hz?



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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 06:57:23 am »
You forgot to mention which monitor. But try to launch them through command-line to see what goes, it could well be your Hyperspin doing things.



And yeah, that site is wrong much like every other place which uses Wikipedia or System 16 to explain particular games.


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 07:04:13 am »
Sorry, my monitor is a tri-frequency (15-25-31) TOSHIBA in a Sega Net City

I'll post the log as soon as I get it  ;)


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 07:22:59 am »
Ok, here it is.

And just for the info : the clatter occurs even when I run from a command line so i'm not sure that Hyperspin is to blame.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 07:44:24 am by Gandalf68 »


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2019, 09:43:54 pm »
A very quick view of that reveals that you are indeed switching from 31 to 15-kHz. There's your frequency change.


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 07:44:57 am »

Are you positive ? You say that my graphic card switch between 31hz to 15Hz ?
But how is it possible since i use CRT Emudriver so that my video card only displays 15HZ ?

Did i make something wrong in the process ?


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 11:24:47 am »
Whatever did you read to believe that CRT Emudriver and CRT Tools are for 15 kHz only? That's the first wrong, most likely.

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 12:14:40 pm »
Ok, here it is.

And just for the info : the clatter occurs even when I run from a command line so i'm not sure that Hyperspin is to blame.

Gandalf68, it's kHz, not Hz.

Your log shows your desktop is set to 31 kHz, as expected because you're using a tri-sync preset. So yes, the frequency switch is happening right between the desktop (or frontend) and GM.

In order to eliminate that problem, you may want to configure your desktop with a 15 kHz mode. The problem is all 15 kHz modes in your mode list are super resolutions (not suitable for desktop or frontend).

You need to add a 4:3, 15kHz mode. It will be interlaced, it will flicker, and you will complain :)
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 01:55:28 pm »
Don't worry, i can easily accept the flicker on the desktop because after all, i'm using the MameCAb only to run MAME in Hyperspin. Once the clatter problem solved, i will configure Hypespin to be launch at Windows start, and i would not really need to use windows anymore after that.

So what is the procedure to add a 4:3, 15kHz (Thank you for the correction  ;) ) mode and to configure my desktop so it will use it ?


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 04:14:37 pm »
Follow these steps:

- Run VMMaker. In monitor's tab, select "Arcade 15 kHz"
- In Vmmaker's command line, type:

modelist import
mode add 648x486@60
modelist install

- Exit VMMaker (don't use the Generate Modes nor Install Modes buttons!)
- Now, in Windows display properties dialog, or in Arcade OSD, set the desktop's resolution to 648x486

Why 648x486? Because this way you don't overlap your existing 31 kHz 640x480 (I think it's good you keep this one as 31 kHz considering the monitor you have and some systems will benefit from it, and also having it editable by not making it the desktop's mode).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 04:34:49 pm »
Again, sorry for asking but where do i find Vmmaker's command line ?


Calamity

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2019, 04:41:25 pm »
Again, sorry for asking but where do i find Vmmaker's command line ?

 :)

It's where the "Ready>" is.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 04:52:06 pm »
OK, now my desktop (and Hyperspin) are displayed correctly i suppose (Flicker)
... but when i launch a game, not only the clatter occurs, but the super resolutions are no longer loaded

Do you want me to post a LOG ?

EDIT : And is it normal that in Windows display properties dialog, the only choice i have is "Arcade_15_25_" (The same that i had before) ?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 05:06:01 pm by Gandalf68 »


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 05:10:08 pm »
Here's the new LOG


Calamity

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 05:14:04 pm »
Can you post the log from VMMaker? Don't run it again yet or it'll get lost. It's a file named log.txt in VMMaker's folder.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 05:21:23 pm »
Oh ! I ran Vmmaker several times since (trying to see if i did something wrong)  :(

Should i redo the manipulation ?
And post the log that will be created ?


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2019, 05:26:53 pm »
You destroyed your mode list. You probably made some error while typing the commands I posted.

You need to start again, set the tri-sync preset, redo the modes, install them, etc.

Then try again my suggestion. The only thing I missed in my list was to set the preset to tri-sync again before exiting VMMaker (so it doesn't export arcade_15 to mame.ini as it did).

If you want to be sure, right after:

modelist import

type:

modelist list

and make sure the mode list is loaded (VMMaker should list all your modes).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2019, 05:42:05 pm »
I have just set the tri-sync preset, then generate mode and install them, but now my display is cropped and the only choices in Windows display properties dialog are super resolutions or 576x720 (wich is the one i'm using)
Is it normal ?

Do i have to redo what you suggested now ? In order to get the 648x486@60 for the desktop ?


Calamity

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2019, 05:43:30 pm »
Do i have to redo what you suggested now ? In order to get the 648x486@60 for the desktop ?

Sure.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2019, 05:58:35 pm »
OK, i've just redo the all thing, but just like the first time -> when i launch a game, no "super resolution"

This time i copied the log from Vmmaker so you can see if i did something wrong


Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2019, 06:29:25 pm »
I have to go to sleep -> it's 0:30 here and i'm working at 7:30

Hopefully we'll be able to fix the problem tomorrow  :)

Thanks again for your help and your time so far !


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2019, 03:42:19 am »
Hi Gandalf68,

Sorry I didn't imagine you were using beta 14. For the commands I posted to work right, you actually need beta 15. No need to update the driver, just download the separate CRT tools an repeat the process.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2019, 07:31:24 am »
OK, so i downloaded and install CRT Emudriver Tools Beta 15 and i redid the all operation :

Set to tri-sync, point to my GroovyMAME exe, and choose "Export settings to GroovyMAME"
-> Generate modelines
-> Install modelines

Then set to Arcade 15kHz

Then type :
modelist import
mode add 648x486@60
modelist install

Then set again to tri-sync, cliked ok then i closed the Wmmaker window (pressing the cross in the upper right)

Is that alright ?

But then again, still no "Super resolutions"

Here's my LOG


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2019, 08:03:37 am »
My initial instructions were supposed to be done on a second VMMaker's session, once you had your modes installed, that's why it's not running this way. Now, since you're going to have to start again, do it in a single VMMaker's session, this way:

- Select tri-sync preset.
- Generate modes (don't install them yet)
- Select arcade 15 khz preset
- mode add 648x486@60
- Select tri-sync preset.
- Install modes
- Exit.

This way it will work.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2019, 08:18:26 am »
OK, that's half way to the solution because now, i have the "super resolutions", but the clatter are still here

Here's the LOG

EDIT :

I see in the LOG that there is several modelines with 25kHZ and 31kHz frequency -> do i have to remove them manually maybe ?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 08:54:49 am by Gandalf68 »


Calamity

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2019, 09:29:37 am »
OK, that's half way to the solution because now, i have the "super resolutions", but the clatter are still here

Here's the LOG

EDIT :

I see in the LOG that there is several modelines with 25kHZ and 31kHz frequency -> do i have to remove them manually maybe ?

That log is still from beta 14, I guess you picked it from the wrong folder. Sorry, the log is good, it must have been my phone.

Anyway, the log I'd need now is the one from GM.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 09:38:24 am by Calamity »
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2019, 01:34:49 pm »
I should have known that you would ask me for the GM log  ;)

Here iit is



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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2019, 01:53:55 pm »
Ok, that's normal, you're running a vertical game and it's trying to use your 25 kHz range to show the game's 384 lines height. So you still have a frequency switch between your desktop (15 kHz) and the game (25 kHz).

Test sf2 instead.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2019, 01:57:35 pm »
OK, but i'm planning to run ONLY Vertical games (and only 15kHz games as well) on this system -> isn't there a way to prevent the clatter to occur in this case ?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 01:59:12 pm by Gandalf68 »


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2019, 02:00:10 pm »
OK, but i'm planning to run ONLY Vertical games (and only 15kHz games as well) on this system -> isn't there a way to prevent the clatter to occur in this case ?

Have you considered rotating your monitor?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2019, 02:11:41 pm »
It's already done -> i pivoted my monitor in vertical position (TATE) because i want to use this MAMECab exclusively for vertical games : all MAME games, mostly Shmups and all of them are in 15kHz
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:25:42 pm by Gandalf68 »


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2019, 02:25:04 pm »
It's already done -> i pivoted my monitor in vertical position (TATE) because i want to use this MAMECab exclusively for vertical games

Man, this changes everything.

Ok, I noticed you were rotating the modes using the internal UI. Don't do that (you'll need to wipe out MAME's cfg folder to remove the old settings). Instead, what you want to do is to rotate your desktop. Do it from Windows display settings dialog.

Don't touch VMMaker, your installed modes should keep valid.

Then, in mame.ini, set "orientation rotate_r" or "orientation rotate_l" (if one makes the picture upside down choose the other).

You may need to configure your frontend orientation on a later stage.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2019, 02:42:36 pm »
FYI : i did all the things you said with my desktop turned 90 degrees from the beginning (so I'm forced to lean my head to the left) because I thought it might confuse GroovyMAME otherwise.

And I have already configured my fronted so that it is displayed vertically (long and tough work, but the result is nice)

So when you ask me to rotate my desktop, what do you mean exactly ?
Do i have to rotate it so i can see Windows displayed normally, or should i leave it like it is right now ? (Rotate 90 degrees to the left)


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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2019, 02:46:11 pm »
Do i have to rotate it so i can see Windows displayed normally

This.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2019, 02:54:38 pm »
OK, but in the in MAME's cfg folder : could i keep the default.cfg ? Because in this file i have my key's configuration (which is specific to my system)

And i don't find anywhere in mame.ini a line with "orientation rotate"

Do i have to add it myself ?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 03:10:50 pm by Gandalf68 »


Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2019, 04:01:42 pm »
So, i cleared the MAME'cfg folder (except for the default.cfg file)  and added "orientation rotate_r" in the mame.ini

When i launch GroovyMAME -> clatter
Then i'm on MAME's main menu and it's oriented right or left depending on  rotate_r or rotate_l (i tried both)

Then i launched a game -> clatter
The game is in vertical position, but the resolution is wrong : the image is crushed toward the center

Then i launched the game trough a command line to create the log -> no clatter

Here is my log and my mame.ini (wich i renamed mame.txt)


Calamity

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2019, 04:10:56 pm »
So, i cleared the MAME'cfg folder (except for the default.cfg file)  and added "orientation rotate_r" in the mame.ini

You added it at the end of file. The orientation option is in the Switchres section. So you have it duplicated. Anyway it's working although it's reading it twice.

Quote
Then i launched the game trough a command line to create the log -> no clatter

Did the game look crushed in this case?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Gandalf68

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Re: 31Hz games runs on a 15Hz graphic card ?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2019, 04:22:12 pm »
Quote
Did the game look crushed in this case?

Yes

I just removed the line "orientation rotate_r" that I created, and I changed the word "horizontal" by "vertical" in the core switchres options but the clatter still occurs when i launch GroovyMAME, and when i launch a game.
That, plus the game llook crushed too