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Author Topic: vega support  (Read 1116 times)

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lodoss118

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vega support
« on: February 01, 2019, 05:08:41 pm »
Going to get a vega 64 card, I know there was talk about support and possible guide to help setup any news?

inv

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Re: vega support
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2019, 07:15:52 pm »
Not yet, I think. :(

I wish the rx 560 & 580 to be supported by CRT Emudriver, too.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 07:22:00 pm by inv »

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Re: vega support
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 03:12:46 am »
Calamity mentioned the RX and Vega should be supported in the next CRT_Emu release.
AFAIK he recently bought a Vega himself, guess he's busy developrooftesting.
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Re: vega support
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 04:12:16 am »
I have a Vega 56 here running with the new beta, I'm planning to release it as soon as I fix some outstanding issues with EDID emulation.

There's a serious limitation however with regards to the dotclocks these cards can support through HDMI. The minimum seems to be around 18 MHz, which not only prevents using low resolutions but even the usual 4:3 desktop modes like 640x480i. Super resolutions work nicely though, so they're perfectly usable for GroovyMAME.
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Re: vega support
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2019, 05:05:59 am »
Guess that's not a big issue considering the power of these cards.

Just curious though; would it still be possible to mod the drivers to run actual low resolutions and use paired with something like the Soft15KHz dongle arcadeforge used to sell ?
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Re: vega support
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2019, 06:07:26 am »
Guess that's not a big issue considering the power of these cards.

Just curious though; would it still be possible to mod the drivers to run actual low resolutions and use paired with something like the Soft15KHz dongle arcadeforge used to sell ?

It's not a big issue, but it may cause difficulties. For instance a resolution of 960x480 on the desktop will make most existing frontends panic. Hopefully some frontend authors will implement support for odd aspect ratios.

I don't think it's fixable using extern EDID dongles. EDID emulation is internal to the driver and doesn't help. The dotclocks are actually applied but cause an out of sync display. Maybe it's fixable from the driver, probably not. The existing low dotclock limitations are already patched so the values are accepted by the driver, but maybe the pll algorithms can deal with them properly afterwards.


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Re: vega support
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2019, 06:38:00 am »
Ok, it's out!

Let's hope things don't break too much on this release...
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lodoss118

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Re: vega support
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2019, 05:05:40 pm »
this is great news, how does super resolutions work and whats the benefit if I have an arcade monitor?


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Re: vega support
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2019, 06:24:56 pm »
this is great news, how does super resolutions work and whats the benefit if I have an arcade monitor?

Info in section d) of this guide, and config options later in the guide.

https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/87668-A-guide-to-connecting-your-Windows-PC-to-an-SD-CRT-TV-PVM-or-Arcade-Monitor


Calamity, any ideas on how feasible it would be to use a Vega card, say, and output via a motherboard's onboard VGA for analog video? Would it also bypass the dotclock limits?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 09:57:20 pm by buttersoft »

lodoss118

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Re: vega support
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2019, 12:26:26 am »
Calamity did you get atom 15 working on the vega?

schmerzkaufen

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Re: vega support
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2019, 05:16:43 am »
any ideas on how feasible it would be to use a Vega card, say, and output via a motherboard's onboard VGA for analog video? Would it also bypass the dotclock limits?

A fairly recent answer below (december) if I understand this means newer APUs (Ryzen) and newer mobos are a total gamble, and even if it works you don't choose the digital>analogue converter since it is integrated to the mobo. You'd have to check this specific part of the mobo's specs and find what bandwidth it supports, good luck with that.
EDIT: no point in looking specifically for a modern AMD mobo with VGA then...
Interesting APU news. Did we ever get any confirmation that the older APU's will work to output 15kHz? I realise the driver installs, but will an onboard mobo VGA port deliver? Or is that what you meant by Vega card, Calamity?

There's some relevant information here.

So we finally have a consistent answer. New AMD gpus (same with Nvidia) don't have analog support any more. This means they don't have the actual circuits to output an analog signal, regardless of what connectors you may find on the video card.

This is not new, we all knew that. The doubt was caused by these new motherboards for Ryzen APUs that do mount a VGA connector. It turns out these motherboards also support much older APUs that included R7 graphics which did support analog output. This is because AMD decided to keep the socket compatibility for several generations of processors.

However the Ryzen APUs include Vega graphics which doesn't support analog. So what happens if you plug a monitor to the motherboards' VGA output? According to the link above, this results in no video during BIOS post but surprisingly the VGA was usable once Windows starts. This suggests there's an additional chip on the motherboard, similar to those in active HDMI->VGA adapters, that performs the conversion. Probably, the chip requires drivers that are not available during boot.

Probably these chips and their performance will vary among different vendors. Also, probably they suffer from low bandwidth limitations, same as their dongle counterparts.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 05:26:06 am by schmerzkaufen »
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Re: vega support
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 05:38:20 am »
Yeah we're still beginning the investigation with these things. I have a partially written article on this topic, which I haven't released because new tests contradict the results of the previous ones.

The thing is previously I thought there was a low dotclock limit in the dongles. My current tests show the same dongle allows different lower dotclocks for different cards & same drivers. So the limitation is either video card dependant or maybe both dongle and cards have limits.

HDMI is supposed to support a 25 MHz lower dotclock (this is 640x480 31 kHz), but it supports lower dotclocks (e.g. 13.5 MHz for 480i) by using pixel repetition patterns (no idea what the hell this means). I have successfully used values as low as 8 MHz out of a R9 270 and a HDMI-VGA dongle. Now the same dongle with Vega 56 only allows 18.57 MHz or higher.
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CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: vega support
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2019, 05:48:16 am »
Calamity did you get atom 15 working on the vega?

I haven't tried yet.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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Re: vega support
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2019, 10:25:02 pm »
Hi Calamity. I have an ati hd7970. Would I have any benefit if I installed the latest crt Emu drivers based on adrenalin instead of the ones I installed at the moment based on crimson?

Calamity

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Re: vega support
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2019, 04:36:53 am »
Hi Calamity. I have an ati hd7970. Would I have any benefit if I installed the latest crt Emu drivers based on adrenalin instead of the ones I installed at the moment based on crimson?

Vulkan support. A couple of years of optimizations/bug fixes (permission to be skeptical about this).
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xbrunox

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Re: vega support
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 05:10:59 am »
Ok Calamity thanks. another question:
i've installed CCC crimson options doing this:


Just run the driver package and once it unpacks files, cancel the installation. Then browse into this folder:

C:\AMD\Support\Non-WHQL-64Bit-Radeon-Software-Crimson-16.2.1-Win10-Win8.1-Win7-Feb27\Packages\Apps\CN\CNext\cnext64

Double click on ccc-next64.msi, that will install Radeon Settings.


How can i install adrenaline option with the new drivers?

many thanks for your great drivers

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Re: vega support
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2019, 06:57:16 am »
Ok Calamity thanks. another question:
i've installed CCC crimson options doing this:


Just run the driver package and once it unpacks files, cancel the installation. Then browse into this folder:

C:\AMD\Support\Non-WHQL-64Bit-Radeon-Software-Crimson-16.2.1-Win10-Win8.1-Win7-Feb27\Packages\Apps\CN\CNext\cnext64

Double click on ccc-next64.msi, that will install Radeon Settings.


How can i install adrenaline option with the new drivers?

many thanks for your great drivers

No, unfortunately that doesn't work any more with Adrenaline, I need to check why it's so and if it's possible to fix it.

So I've tried again and it works! Not sure why previously I couldn't install it. Here's a link to the separate Radeon Settings installer for 18.5.1:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CNXbfJGDFieJaAxVL110K_YLxrqqLbiO
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 07:26:19 am by Calamity »
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Re: vega support
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 11:03:18 am »
Calamity you are Great!
many thanks.

tomorrow il'try the new drivers. with my7970.

lodoss118

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Re: vega support
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2019, 04:17:34 am »
Calamity, can you provide details what dongle/hdmi to vga lead you used? I am trying to find one for my vega 64 :( not sure which one to get?

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Re: vega support
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2019, 12:18:56 pm »
Calamity, can you provide details what dongle/hdmi to vga lead you used? I am trying to find one for my vega 64 :( not sure which one to get?

I'm currently using this one: https://www.amazon.com/Rankie-HDMI-Adapter-3-5mm-Audio/dp/B00ZMV7RL2

There are probably other valid choices out there.
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Re: vega support
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2019, 04:02:24 pm »
GroovyMAME oddball LCD user: W7 64, viewsonic vx3211-mh, i5-4690k @4.1GHz, Rx 570, crt_emudriver 2.0b15

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Re: vega support
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 04:04:40 pm »
Hi Calamity I've finally tested the new version of crt Emu drivers with my old hd7970. I've  noticed a sensible slowdown of framereate in all teknoparrot games. And I can't use quadratic render in supermodel it is very very very slow.

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Re: vega support
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2019, 05:01:27 pm »
Hi Calamity I've finally tested the new version of crt Emu drivers with my old hd7970. I've  noticed a sensible slowdown of framereate in all teknoparrot games. And I can't use quadratic render in supermodel it is very very very slow.

I can't test this now, but I'd try installing the whole package from AMD site (18.5), then install CRT Emudriver over it.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
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 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

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Re: vega support
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2019, 11:52:46 am »
Hi Calamity I've finally tested the new version of crt Emu drivers with my old hd7970. I've  noticed a sensible slowdown of framereate in all teknoparrot games. And I can't use quadratic render in supermodel it is very very very slow.

Just wanted to report same behavior on my R9 380x with both teknoparrot and supermodel 3 using the older driver set.  I tried a handful of SM3 games and they are all too slow to play so not sure it is specific to this release.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 11:56:50 am by rancid »