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Author Topic: CRT EmuDriver 1.2b with CRT Tools 2.0 Enable CSync?  (Read 677 times)

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darknezz19

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CRT EmuDriver 1.2b with CRT Tools 2.0 Enable CSync?
« on: January 30, 2019, 02:51:08 pm »
Working with a Radeon x800. 32 bit processor on this build so have to use 1.2b drivers. I'm not sure if I'm getting CSync enabled. It says it's enabled but when I test a video mode and test DC voltage on HSync it's reading 0v. Also in a normal resolution I'm also reading 0v on HSync pin. I Set HSync and VSync polarity to + on the video mode as well. Any ideas or maybe CSync doesn't work with old driver and latest CRT tools?

Edit: I am getting 5v on Hsync actually, changed DC mode to the 20 setting. Same voltage in Csync video mode being displayed. I'm injecting blue straight into the back of the neckboard of a consumer crt mounted in a cab. I know VGA RGB is only .7 volts and the crt needs something closer to 1.5 but thought I'd at least see a faint rasterization. Hmm.

I have 1k resistor inline on Csync and 75ohm termination to ground after that. Tried blue signal with and without 75ohm termination.

Edit2: Added a THS7314 amp and that brought rgb voltage from .33 up to 0.79v and would think I would see some color at this voltage. Something is wrong still. Any help is appreciated.

Edit3: Found out Csync on 1.2b isn't supported. Tried to combine Hsync and Vsync with 2 10kohm resistors just temporarily to see if I can get something to show up but still nothing. By mistake when trying to blindly switch to the next resolution I switch to a monitor native resolution and the a picture showed. I turned it off quickly there after so I'm getting the RGB to work on 60hz but not 15hz. Going to go back over my installation and setup maybe I did something wrong.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 06:19:01 pm by darknezz19 »

buttersoft

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Re: CRT EmuDriver 1.2b with CRT Tools 2.0 Enable CSync?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 06:23:41 pm »
If you're certain this set wants 1.5Vp-p RGB delivered to the neckboard, I would expect something to show up at .7V, and your problem could well be with sync.

crt_emudriver 1.2b doesn't have the ability to enable c-sync in VMM, does it? Calamity recommends you use the updated 2.0 tools with the 1.2 driver, but I know there are limitations with that. I would guess it's not going to work. You might still be able to enable c-sync with an older version of Catalyst Control Center or another program, but there's no official compatibility with the driver. It's going to be trial and error. VGA delivers TTL sync with a 5V DC offset, so you're measuring that. If your multimeter has a frequency setting you can mb use it but it will probably only register the H-sync component at about 15kHz and ignore the V-sync bit.

You can try a 500R resistor followed by a 1K pot in the V-sync line, and the same in the H-sync line, then combine. Dial the pots around and it should work, assuming you're injecting sync to the right place. That being the composite video port, or equivalent pin on the jungle, if you're doing this in AV mode. If/once you get it working, you want to be using the highest value resistors you can get away with.

Be aware that injecting RGB to the neckboard is not the preferred method as it bypasses the regulation circuitry in the set. You normally need to amp the video levels as you describe, but if you use a pre-80's set, and/or if you make the picture brighter than it could go with the RF/composite inputs, you'll be getting an upped dose of X-rays. And you stand far closer to an arcade tube than when watching TV on the couch.

You might consider modding the set to inject RGB into the jungle, if it's possible. There's a thread about RGB modding in the Hardware section on the Shmups forum, if you need pointers.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 08:04:36 pm by buttersoft »

darknezz19

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Re: CRT EmuDriver 1.2b with CRT Tools 2.0 Enable CSync?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 12:57:57 am »
buttersoft I have tried and tried so many configs to combine H and V sync, and every result has been confusing. Maybe need to take a break and come back with a fresh head.

Thought about RGB modding this chassis but searches for service manual and jungle ic number pdfs turned up nothing. Is there a easy way to tell if jungle RGB pins are TTL or analog with just a multi meter? I need to get and learn how to use a scope one of these days-_-
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 01:05:02 am by darknezz19 »

Paradroid

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Re: CRT EmuDriver 1.2b with CRT Tools 2.0 Enable CSync?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 01:59:54 am »
Is there a easy way to tell if jungle RGB pins are TTL or analog with just a multi meter?
If there are caps inline immediately before the RGB pins, they're going to be analog.

If your DMM has a 'max' function you can see what kind of voltages are arriving at the pins.

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darknezz19

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Re: CRT EmuDriver 1.2b with CRT Tools 2.0 Enable CSync?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 02:57:27 pm »
Grabbed a crt out of the garage stock pile to rgb mod and can't find a service manual or jungle ic pdf on this one either. I did find a pinout for the jungle though.

https://imgur.com/a/Zcrt1RE

Looks like rgb in pins are 51-53. I see caps on the lines but it lists VPP for those pins at around 2.5v and analong would be more around 0.7v is that correct? This one is TTL for sure right?

Edit: Found the chassis service manual and looks like it can support Scart in and Scart out but doesn't come hooked up on USA models. Page 117 describes how UOC (7200) can have the these two connections enabled but it's not clear what pins are used, have to dig more here in this manual, maybe we'll get lucky. Actually have 2 sets with this chassis so would be awesome if this can work.

https://elektrotanya.com/philips_chassis_l01.1u-ac_7638.pdf/download.html

Edit2: Okay so Pin1 on the jungle ic looks like it controls weather SCART is enabled or not. On USA models they use YUV inputs and I'm guessing those same inputs can also be switched to analog rgb inputs.

Looks like in this section it says these inputs can either handle RGB or YUV depending on the STATUS1 state. It also shows 22nf caps if using YUV specifically. Probably just jump those out.

https://imgur.com/a/yzIbI1T

In the next picture below it shows how PIN1 is for STATUS1 and if using YUV there is a 100 ohm resistor inline, which mine has. For optional RGB it has a weird symbol, but I think it means just a straight jump to pin 1 and by removing the resistor. What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 05:13:42 pm by darknezz19 »

buttersoft

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Re: CRT EmuDriver 1.2b with CRT Tools 2.0 Enable CSync?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 07:42:20 pm »
That service manual is godawful. I think page 135 is the schematic you want, but I'm not clear on where the RGB lines come onto that page from.  I agree that pin 51-53 of the jungle seems to be RGB, with the fast-blanking on pin 50. However, the RGB inputs might need to be enabled/disabled from YUV mode or perhaps at all via service mode with the remote i.e turn Scart on.

I would really recommend the shumps RGB hacking thread if you want to do it right - https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 07:46:49 pm by buttersoft »