Input on CP Layout for my new build

[byancey]

I'm starting a new build of a full-size MAME machine and I'm looking for some input from the community. 

I'm going with dual servo-switch joysticks as my primary for P1/P2, a single analog Ultrastick 360 for some added versatility, an Ultrastick 360 FlightStick, a single spinner and a trackball.  I've tried to layout the front row controls so that the spinner + FS are laid out for Tron, and the U360 + FS are laid out for tank games such as BattleZone, doing my best to position them so that they aren't obstructed by front row controls.  I've tried to keep sufficient room around the spinner without compromising too much on the front row placement.

I've previously designed and built a bartop with 2 Ultrasticks, as well as a full size visual pinball machine, but this is my first time dealing with such a diverse set of controls on my panel, so I'm looking for some input on two possible options that I've laid out in Sketchup.  Option #1 positions the front row sticks a bit closer together and to the right of the spinner.  It also offsets the entire front row so that the analog sticks sit to either side of the player 2 stick.  Option #2 attempts to align the front row so that it's a bit more symmetrical, with sticks either side of the spinner.  I think option #1 may be a bit more functional, but option #2 is probably a bit more aesthetically pleasing.

Any thoughts or opinions?  Is there something about either of these layouts that I may have overlooked in terms of usability for a wide variety of MAME games?





Thanks!

[Mike A]

Where are you going to put the helicopter landing pad?

[wp34]

My Tron CP layout is similar to what you posted.   Have you thought about just going with U360's for P1 and P2?  You could ditch that extra joystick and those extra buttons above the trackball.

[Jimbo]

I may be wrong, but your left hand when using that spinner might be uncomfortable with P1's buttons underneath it.

A good way to know for sure is to make a mock up in cardboard....   

[Mike A]

Its too freaking big and you have too much ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on it. Break this down into at least 2 control panels. You can use arcade control panel latches. Put the encoder in the CP box. Use ethernet cables and connectors between the CP and the encoder. Pop 2 latches and unplug a couple cables and you can swap panels. That way you CP is a manageable size and it is way less intimidating since there will be less buttons and sticks on each panel.

[byancey]

My Tron CP layout is similar to what you posted.   Have you thought about just going with U360's for P1 and P2?  You could ditch that extra joystick and those extra buttons above the trackball.

Thought about it.  I went that route with the bartop I built a few years back.  I love the U360s for their versatility, but I like the haptic feel of the joysticks with microswitches.  Instead, I considered foregoing the U360 entirely on this build, but included it so that I could support analog/49-way titles, such as Sinistar, and also as an alternative for Q*Bert if I find I don't like how the J-sticks handle 4-way diagonal support.


...besides, I've already purchased all the controls pictured on my layouts.   I actually had to model the Ultrastick FS from the one I have here, as I couldn't find an existing Sketchup model for it.

[byancey]

I may be wrong, but your left hand when using that spinner might be uncomfortable with P1's buttons underneath it.

A good way to know for sure is to make a mock up in cardboard....   

I've actually mocked this up a bit using some fightsticks I created for the PS3 years back (photo attached).  The buttons will be convex, and it seems that the arms laying over them a bit isn't too much of a comfort issue...maybe that changes with extended gameplay??  My biggest concern was being able to comfortably reach around the joysticks and trackball in the front row.

[byancey]

Its too freaking big and you have too much ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- on it. Break this down into at least 2 control panels. You can use arcade control panel latches. Put the encoder in the CP box. Use ethernet cables and connectors between the CP and the encoder. Pop 2 latches and unplug a couple cables and you can swap panels. That way you CP is a manageable size and it is way less intimidating since there will be less buttons and sticks on each panel.

I've seen the project thread for the modular approach you are referring to.  Very cool, and I seriously considered going that route as well.  I think that approach would be ideal for extended sessions with a specific game, but not so ideal for guests browsing through games on the system and then needing to swap out a control panel module before playing the selected game.  I decided to address the "intimidation factor" by adding RGB lighting to every button and control on the panel, and only lighting up the controls being used by a specific game.  That way it should be unambiguous which joystick(s) to use for a given game.  That's the plan anyway.  Hopefully it works as well in practice as it does in my brain.

[Ian]

It has some similarities to my control panel. I love my NeoGeo layout. If I could do anything over again I would get rid of the 4 way joystick. I dont use mine because Sanwa sticks work damn good when switched to 4 way.

My very first build had buttons above the track ball... that is a big no no for me. I always hit those buttons when I hammered down on the track ball on Golden Tee. I know people achieve the same swing using two thumbs but I am a savage.

Lastly never built a game with a Flight stick. If you are adding it for good reason keep it. But I never have found the need for one. But Good luck on your build!

[ark_ader]

Flight sticks are a great idea to put on a control panel, but you can add these via usb when the need arises unless you are going full hotas.  Remember we do not play the entire romset of mame, so you can reduce the amount of  controls.  Make your control panel as ergo friendly as possible and you will find gaming enjoyable, put all kinds of crap on there, and it will sit unused until you get rid of it.

[wp34]

I may be wrong, but your left hand when using that spinner might be uncomfortable with P1's buttons underneath it.

A good way to know for sure is to make a mock up in cardboard....   

The buttons haven't been an issue with the spinner.   Obviously it isn't as comfortable as a dedicated spinner/trigger CP would be but it has served its purpose.  A mock-up is a great idea.   

I don't use the trigger stick has much as I had expected but it has been great to have.  While in Colorado a few years ago I ran across a couple of rare games (Kozmik Krooz'r and Crater Raider) I'd never seen before that use a trigger/spinner combo.  Crater Raider in particular has become a favorite of mine and it was awesome to be able to come home from my trip and be able to play it on my cabinet.

[byancey]

Thanks for all the input.  There are specific games that I'd like to be playable from the control panel which rely on the analog sticks in various combinations with each other and/or in combination with other controls on the panel, so I'm not considering eliminating either of them as an option for me at this point.  Based on input from this thread, I have have made some refinements to the design in order to clean-up and de-clutter the layout a bit, including the following:

• Eliminated the 3 dedicated buttons associated with spinner and analog joysticks to open up the center a bit more
• Moved the spinner, and analog sticks closer to the P1/P2 buttons, and reduced the overall depth of the panel by about 2"

Here's the updated layout:



I've also done some mock-up testing of this layout with the controls I have on hand.  I'm going to share the salient points from that testing, as I've found similar posts from other users in this forum helpful in my own design, so perhaps my findings will benefit others:

• With the new location of the spinner, my palm rests just below the P1 buttons and my fingers span those buttons when the spinner is gripped, so no interference there, same for both left and right handed use.
• When spinner is used right-handed, Left-most five P1 buttons are usable with the left hand.  When spinner is used left-handed, P2 buttons are within reasonable reach.
• The center 8" of the control panel are completely open, creating a bit of a lane for the trackball.  Direct diagonal distance from the trackball to the spinner/analog stick is just over 6".  I don't think I'll get any further than that without compromising elsewhere, so hopefully that's sufficient.  There was a thumb technique for Golden Tee mentioned in another post, so maybe I'll have to look into that. I think the trackball will likely get used more for the likes of Centipede or Marble Madness in any case.
• Both the analog joystick and the P2 4/8-way joystick are individually usable as left-handed sticks in conjunction with the P2 buttons.  There is no contact with the lower P2 joystick when using the upper analog joystick.  The analog stick here allows for support of games such as Sinistar, or when configured as diagonal 4-way, would be an alternative to the P1 stick in 8-way mode for Q*bert/Congo
• The upper analog stick and flightstick are usable together and should work well with Battle Zone style tank games, or for flight games with the analog stick configured as a throttle.  At 5.5" between them, they are maybe a bit closer than ideal, but workable, and far enough apart that there is no contact with the P1 4/8-way stick when used in this configuration..the left and right hand split around the stick in the center.
• I have no idea if there are any games that use spinner in right hand, joystick in left, but the spinner and analog stick are quite usable in this configuration.
• The spinner and flightstick are usable in a Tron configuration.  The 15" space between them is a bit wider than ideal, but still works quite well.  The right arm does make some contact with the P2 buttons in this configuration, but I did not find that to be uncomfortable in my layout testing (using actual buttons from my fight sticks, pictured several posts above)
• For dual joystick games such as Robotron, the P1 and P2 joysticks can be used together.  Although there is a whopping 20" of space between them, it's surprisingly comfortable to just lean forward on the cab and work those two stick in this manner.  The other possibility is to just use the analog stick and flight stick, which are much closer together.  After testing both options out, I'd go with the P1/P2 route over the analog sticks. (I'm 6'4 though, so that might be a factor here).

I'll have some more time to consider this layout before I actually start construction, as I still need to design the rest of the cabinet round the control panel.   As always, I still welcome any input or issues I might have missed with this latest layout.

Thanks!

[wp34]

I like the clean look of this revision.   

[bperkins01]

It reminds me of mine quite a bit.. Mine is centered around the trackball (Centipede is my game).

If I was going to change mine - I would have moved the spinner to the other side.  Its awkward to use right handed - and - once in a while I manage to hit it a bit during a game (since it and the trackball are both the same mouse) and get killed.

I made a full sized mockup of mine in particle board (cheap) and tested quite a bit...  I recommend you do that.. 
Your new revision is cleaner..

[byancey]

Just wrapped up the cabinet build...nothing wired up yet, but here's a quick shot of the control panel layout in physical form.

[Drnick]

One minute it's just a concept, the next it's done, Got any pics of the build?  Looks like a very clean job. Are you going to be adding a bezel to the monitor area? 

[byancey]

I'm generally not very good at documenting my builds, as I get too excited to get to the next step to bother stopping for photos.  That said, this time around I made a point to snap some photos along the way, to document how it came together and show some of the internal structure.  I'll start a build thread to capture those photos along with some additional info on the build.

In case it's not obvious, the blue color on the control panel is the protective film on a 1/16" piece of plexiglass I've had cut to protect the control panel art, which I'm still working on.

My original plan was to simply paint a black mask on the back side of the glass.  I've done something similar on a previous build.  However, this time around I'm thinking of something a bit less permanent in case I want to add some actual art later.  I may start out by putting together a bezel with someting like this blackout film.

[yotsuya]

Actually like the blue...

[paigeoliver]

One of the better examples of that cabinet style I have seen. You really did avoid most of the bad design bits I see people do with that cabinet.

Just wrapped up the cabinet build...nothing wired up yet, but here's a quick shot of the control panel layout in physical form.