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Author Topic: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)  (Read 3844 times)

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DaOld Man

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2018, 04:41:30 pm »
Good work going on here. Ive often though about rotating panels, but never attempted it. A few people on here have though.
Will be following!

Ond

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2018, 06:01:42 pm »
This is a cool idea which made me think a bit how I'd approach it.  I wouldn’t use slip rings at all.  There's no problem with twisting a wire loom through 90 or more degrees. You could rotate the panels back and forth with a geared stepper motor (which are really precise) and allow enough slack in the loom for a bit of twist.  A solenoid driven locking pin could be combined with the code for the stepper.  Just ideas for you.

yo1dog

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    • MikeArcade
Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2018, 05:43:56 pm »
A solenoid driven locking pin could be combined with the code for the stepper.  Just ideas for you.

I was looking for a solenoid that would work but I am having trouble. Most of them have a short stroke at 10mm. I found this one with a longer stroke (35mm) but I would need to attach something to the spring side and I am not sure how I would do that. Any ideas?

https://www.banggood.com/DC-12V-35mm-Long-Stroke-Push-Pull-Solenoid-Small-Electromagnetic-Electric-Magnet-p-1217063.html?cur_warehouse=CN

DaOld Man

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2018, 05:38:51 pm »
Is the panel going to have gears? If so you could possibly have the solenoid engage one of the gears to lock it in place.

yo1dog

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    • MikeArcade
Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2018, 07:45:24 pm »
It really seems like locking the front panel and the control panel together is the way to go because it is simple, works very well, is easily accessible from the front, and accomplishes locking both the front panel and the control panel at the same time.

Along this line of thinking, I had another idea for a locking mechanism: bolting them together. If you could turn a bolt that was threaded into the front with the head above the control panel, you could pull the front and control panel together (see diagram below).

I've been toying with automating this project so I purchased this DC motor with a gear train and threaded rod attached. I didn't realize how comically small it was which is dumb considering they include a picture of it next to a coin. But, I tried it out anyway.

I made this little test setup:





I routed a channel for the motor to sit in and prevent it from spinning then I cut the slit for the washers and stationary nut to go in. Doubling up the nuts at the end lock them to the bolt and prevent them from spinning freely. This results in the motor, rod, and end washer moving away from the base when turning clockwise and towards the base when turning counter-clockwise.

It seems to work pretty well especially for how tiny that motor is. It creates a nice tight fit and the force on the joint goes from the wood to the washes to the nut to the threads and not on the motor. Next step is to mount it to my test rotating control panel setup.

Here it is in action:
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 07:47:14 pm by yo1dog »

ark_ader

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2018, 12:48:26 am »
All these ideas are great but unfortunately (as I am finding out on my new project) wood on its own is way too heavy. 

It needs to be lighter yet have the same strength to mount the panels (without wiggle), and then some plexi over the top.  Something like 4mm aluminum plate, layered between 9mm MDF and 4mm plexi.

Also there is a height restriction.  Rotation supplied by 3d printed gears and a drill motor.  It needs to run smooth.

I'm checking around some metal supply firms to see if there is any remnants as I will need only 5 panels (pentagon) which should give plenty of options.  I'll post my finds.

I'll be following this thread. Good work so far.  :applaud:

If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

yo1dog

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    • MikeArcade
Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2018, 01:11:31 am »
wood on its own is way too heavy.

Are you referring to the control panel? Do you mean too heavy to rotate? If it is balanced and on decent bearings it should take very little effort to turn. Heck, even my test setup which is just wood on wood turns easily.

Jimbo

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2018, 04:43:35 am »
Hey hey... all this prototyping is a great idea before you actually start doing it on the actual panels.  I still have the brake to sort out, but I'm clearer on the rotation....

It would be good to see a drawing of how your rotating panels sit in with this.

Keep it up mate  :cheers:

yo1dog

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    • MikeArcade
Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2018, 03:47:48 pm »
Bought myself some toys. No really. I bought some sets of LEGO gears, axles, motors, etc. to play around with.

I used them to prototype the automating of the front panel. Works well:



First video shows the front panel itself. Second is a close up of the motor. Third shows how you can still manually move the front panel if needed.

This was a quick, crude test so tolerances are very loose. That plus the fact it is wood-on-wood creates a lot of unnecessary friction. Nonetheless, it still works well. You can see it struggle to retract in the second video. Again, this is due to the loose tolerances allowing things to bend and create a bunch of friction. After I took the video I added another gear for a 1.667 ratio and it worked better.

Arroyo

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2018, 04:14:57 pm »
Pretty cool.  I’m rooting for you to pull this off, would be epic.

Jamesbeat

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2018, 10:07:30 pm »
Welp, I feel silly. The solution is simple and now seems obvious: limit the motor.

Just use a smaller DC motor with slower speed and lower torque.
And/or lower the voltage to lower the torque.
And/or gear it to lower the torque on the control panel (side bonus: faster rotation)

The current to the motor can be monitored to detect a stall and cut power. Though, if you are running the motor at a lower voltage than it is rated for, a short stall shouldn't be able to harm the motor.

DC motors can also rotate freely without causing damage so rotating it manually should not be a problem.

When you're motor shopping, take a look at 540 motors for radio controlled cars.

They are an industry standard size, and about the right size and power for a task like this.

The real advantage though is the sheer variety.
They have been the standard motor used in RC cars since the 80s, so they are very widely available, and so are accessories such as gears.

Because they are so widely used, there are loads to choose from, and the technology is so mature that even the very cheap ones are pretty good.

They are also available in a wide range of 'turns', which will allow you to select the exact windings you want for the speed and torque that you need.

You could pair the motor with a cheap electronic speed control for an RC car to get the exact speed you want.

I hope this will help you avoid reinventing the wheel when it comes to the motor.

yo1dog

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    • MikeArcade
Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2018, 10:31:17 am »
Great advice, thanks! Looking into the 540s now. Having no gear train would be optimal as it reduces complexity and it also allows easier manual operation of the load end. As you said, I am able to find many 540s wound for torque like this one: https://www.amainhobbies.com/rc4wd-540-crawler-brushed-motor-80t-rc4ze0001/p260759

Let me know if my simplistic knowledge of brushed DC motors is correct: Higher voltage = higher speed. Higher amperage = higher torque.

Given that I do not require variable speeds, I don't have a need for an electric speed control, right? I could just use my adjustable power supply to find the right voltage and amperage and then buy an appropriate power supply.

JudgeRob

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Re: Rotating Upright (Name TBD)
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2018, 09:14:31 pm »
Yeah, but you would have to turn the power supply off and on.  The speed control is a pretty easy to use affordable way to control the motor, even if it is just off and on.