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Author Topic: Cutting size for Rotary Control?? Also, what does the flyweight do and size?  (Read 1088 times)

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obizues

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I'm creating my template for an "aircraft carrier" size control panel, and one of the items I'd like to include is a rotary control.  I'm looking at using Ultimarc's "Spintrak" here: http://www.ultimarc.com/SpinTrak.htm:

Based on the picture below and measurement it looks like I want to cut a hole based on the threaded size.. which I think is 28mm as shown below...?  But I'm not sure- does anyone know for sure the proper size here?



Finally, I notice that there are flyweights, and two different sizes.  What do the flyweights do and which size is used for what?

Thanks!

Edited to 28mm
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:08:39 am by obizues »

PL1

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I think is 28" as shown below...?
28" ??!!??  :o   :duckhunt



. . . or you could consider that Ultimarc is in England and that 28mm ==> 1-1/8" = standard arcade pushbutton hole size.


Scott

Mike A

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He did say it was an "aircraft carrier size" control panel. 28 inches would be small on the deck of a carrier.

obizues

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28" ??!!??  :o   :duckhunt

Thanks, I made an edit.  However, I've been using 30mm for my CP buttons and 24mm for my stick diameters based on coinslag's direction.  Is that incorrect?

Or could I make it 30mm as well?  Or is that too big?

PL1

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I've been using 30mm for my CP buttons and 24mm for my stick diameters based on coinslag's direction.  Is that incorrect?

Or could I make it 30mm as well?  Or is that too big?
The info on Slagcoin is somewhat inclined toward Japanese buttons and sticks.

Proper hole size depends on the buttons and sticks you plan to use.

Are you using 30mm buttons? (Sanwa, Seimitsu, etc.)
- If so, you'll need 30mm button holes.
- If not, you can use 30mm holes, but the extra 2mm of wiggle room will make it harder to center/align the buttons.

Depending on the joysticks you want to use, 24mm is probably enough for the joystick hole if the joystick is properly centered.
- Improper centering can cause the shaft to hit the side of the hole.   
- A thicker panel requires a larger hole than a thinner panel -- the higher you go, the longer the throw.
- Japanese sticks usually use smaller dust washers (~1.6") than most arcade sticks (~2.25"), but you can cover a 1-1/8" hole in a 3/4" panel with the dust washer of a properly centered Zippyy. (Seimitsu LS-32 knockoff)


Scott

obizues

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Are you using 30mm buttons? (Sanwa, Seimitsu, etc.)
- If so, you'll need 30mm button holes.
- If not, you can use 30mm holes, but the extra 2mm of wiggle room will make it harder to center/align the buttons.
Scott
Do either of those 30mm buttons have led lighting youíd recommend?

PL1

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Are you using 30mm buttons? (Sanwa, Seimitsu, etc.)
Do either of those 30mm buttons have led lighting youíd recommend?
Not that I would recommend due to the button structure causing uneven lighting.  YMMV.

Personally, I like LED buttons with printed inserts for admin buttons, but prefer not to use them for player buttons.
- For more details on how to make your own inserts, search for my posts containing "avery 18665".



Surf the Project Announcements sub-forum, the Control Panel Database: Post a picture of your Control Panel! thread and I completed my project! I posted a pic and a link to my project thread to see what you like/dislike then follow Yotsuya's wise advice to "***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***"


Scott

obizues

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Not that I would recommend due to the button structure causing uneven lighting. 
The LED buttons have uneven lighting?  What does YMMV stand for?

PL1

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Not that I would recommend due to the button structure causing uneven lighting. 
The LED buttons have uneven lighting?  What does YMMV stand for?
Japanese-style 30mm buttons have microswitches and caps like these that cause uneven lighting because the switch blocks the middle.

 

Regular LED buttons have a hollow plunger that allows the LED to evenly light the diffuser.







From left to right, there is a microswitch and LED socket, LED holder, button body, spring, plunger, diffuser that rests in a depression on the top of the plunger and is held down by the translucent cap.

YMMV.


Scott

obizues

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Regular LED buttons have a hollow plunger that allows the LED to evenly light the diffuser.

What is the size of the LED buttons you're suggesting that I use/how big of a whole should I plan on making, or is it the same size?  I'm currently making my control panel plans with the sticks needing a 24mm hole, and the buttons needing 30mm holes.

Is there an American-type version like Slagcoin for an American control panel layout for the size you are suggesting if it's different?

PL1

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What is the size of the LED buttons you're suggesting that I use/how big of a whole should I plan on making, or is it the same size?  I'm currently making my control panel plans with the sticks needing a 24mm hole, and the buttons needing 30mm holes.
First things first.

1. Find buttons/sticks that you like -- I can't help you with that.

You may want to order a few of different kinds from different vendors to see which ones feel right to you.

2. Once you know which buttons/sticks you like, order enough to populate your panel.

3. Design a panel for those controls.

4. Cut/drill/T-molding slot/paint/vinyl/populate/wire the panel.


Scott

obizues

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1. Find buttons/sticks that you like -- I can't help you with that.
I thought I wanted these, but it seems like you think these will cause problems: http://www.ultimarc.com/ultralux.html

yamatetsu

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These buttons do not cause any problems at all. However, they have a flat top, which may be uncomfortable for some people, that's why PL1 mentioned that he would use lit buttons for admin buttons, but not for playing. It really comes down to your personal preference, if you don't mind the flat top, you'll be fine. Buttons with concave tops sort of guide your fingertip towards the center of the button, whereas if you hit a flat top, your fingertip will stay at that place.

Something else to think about: If you use lit buttons for playing, you will constantly see those lights in your peripheral vision, which might become annoying.

I suggest ordering an ultralux button and an unlit concave one, make a mockup CP and see which one you like better.
Also, wait for the buttons and the joystick(s) to arrive before drilling any holes into the CP. When you have all the parts, you can easily see what size the holes have to be.
                  

obizues

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These buttons do not cause any problems at all. However, they have a flat top,
Ahhh I see what you are saying. So there is not a best or both worlds?  Concave and lit correctly?

Mike A

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Go with unlit concave buttons. I know people are obsessed with the stupid light up buttons. Forget them. They are bad for game play in every way you can think of.

obizues

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Go with unlit concave buttons. I know people are obsessed with the stupid light up buttons. Forget them. They are bad for game play in every way you can think of.
So you're saying that there are no lit concave buttons?  I'd like that option if it exists.

Mike A

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PL1

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So you're saying that there are no lit concave buttons?  I'd like that option if it exists.
Paradise Arcade Shop has translucent IL buttons that can be modified for LEDs like the IL-lumination RGB 5VDC.

Related thread here.


Scott

obizues

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Paradise Arcade Shop has translucent IL buttons that can be modified for LEDs like the IL-lumination RGB 5VDC.

Related thread here.

Sorry, dumb question.  Why can't I just use these?
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/controls/buttons/buttons-il-industrias-lorenzo/il-psl-l-transparent/274_il-psl-l-translucent-blue?search_query=Translucent+&results=124 
Or is that part of the plunger problem you were talking about?

That being said it looks like none are in stock.

barrymossel

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Paradise Arcade Shop has translucent IL buttons that can be modified for LEDs like the IL-lumination RGB 5VDC.

Related thread here.

Sorry, dumb question.  Why can't I just use these?
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/controls/buttons/buttons-il-industrias-lorenzo/il-psl-l-transparent/274_il-psl-l-translucent-blue?search_query=Translucent+&results=124 
Or is that part of the plunger problem you were talking about?

That being said it looks like none are in stock.
Isn't Scott talking about those?

And other colors are in stock:
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/controls/buttons/buttons-il-industrias-lorenzo/il-psl-l-transparent/275_il-psl-white-translucent-concave-pushbutton-

obizues

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[quote author=barrymossel link=topic=157257.msg1652334#msg1652334 date=of the plunger problem you were talking about?
Isn't Scott talking about those?

And other colors are in stock:
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/controls/buttons/buttons-il-industrias-lorenzo/il-psl-l-transparent/275_il-psl-white-translucent-concave-pushbutton-
[/quote]

Iím not sure, Chance did a demo where he took the clear IL pushbuttons and then put IL-lumination RGB 5VDC LED modules in them... and cut holes in the plastic to seat it correctly.

My question is, are the blue ones that I linked going to light up as blue without that work and also have the buttons blue?  Or am I missing a benefit of doing it the other way?

PL1

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If you only want a single color, you can use just the blue channel of the RGB LED or go old-school like JoyMonkey describes here.



Happ buttons are identical to IL buttons.

Remember to use a current-limiting resistor with the single-color LED. (The RGB LED has them built-in)

Someone did a tutorial thread on this mod, but I didn't find it.   :dunno


Scott
P.S.  While looking for that thread, I tripped over this post about the 30mm button "shadow".

Left is an unmodified Seimitsu, right has a painted plumger.


obizues

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Sorry, this is where I have major knowledge gaps.... the wiring, buttons, and electrical.

Left is an unmodified Seimitsu, right has a painted plumger.



So the left unmodified Seimitsu is exactly what I want in blue.  I went on their website and there are a million different types and names, but none that say they have lights.  Also I have never felt a "bounceback" before, but I would like the extra springyness for quicker presses.

Do these look like what I'm looking for, if I'm looking for blue led lit buttons like the one on the left that are 30mm?

https://arcadeshock.com/collections/pushbuttons/products/seimitsu-ps-14-k-clear-pushbutton-30mm-snap-in-2018-bounceback-series

JudgeRob

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    • forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,149265.120.html
Personally, I think when the entire buttons light up, it's too glowy and distracting.  Especially when you have that many buttons.  I used the same one chance did, where only the outside ring lights up and I think it is a great compromise.  RGB are really cool with the LEDBlinky program.  You can light up only the buttons used on a particular game and have it change to match the color used by the original game.  It helps when guests don't know what buttons to press.  "the lit up ones!"

obizues

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Personally, I think when the entire buttons light up, it's too glowy and distracting.  Especially when you have that many buttons.  I used the same one chance did, where only the outside ring lights up and I think it is a great compromise.  RGB are really cool with the LEDBlinky program.  You can light up only the buttons used on a particular game and have it change to match the color used by the original game.  It helps when guests don't know what buttons to press.  "the lit up ones!"
So you had to take apart each button and drill holes in the plastic?

Does LEDBlinky only work for the those?

Iím not sure what you mean when you reference one type or another. Please keep in mind I have no frame of reference for who did what or other projects really.

I like the idea of buttons only lighting up when they are in use... is that hard to do?  Which buttons do you recommend?

JudgeRob

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Nah, I didn't have to drill them.  They're hollow core.  The LED just fits in the bottom and the wires feed out the back end.  LEDBlinky interfaces with the LED driver you use, so the important thing isn't to get the "right" LEDs, but to get a good driver.  For instance, I used an IPAC Ultimate to drive all of the LEDS and the LEDBlinky software controls it.  There's some set up with the program, but its all done with a graphic interface.  You just need to tell LEDBlinky which LEDs go with which buttons.  Some things aren't totally intuitive, but they have great customer support to help you out.  There's a big fat database someone put together (I think it's call colors.dat or something) where someone set the color scheme for hundreds of the most popular arcade games, so a lot of games are already done for you.  You can then set up custom ones if one isn't in there already. 

I just noticed I don't have any closeups of my CP in my project thread.   Here is one picture of the black buttons I used.  I'll get a picture of the LEDs in it for you too if it would help.


I have a bit of a problem with the buttons.  I realize with some testing that I really like the feel of the leaf-switch buttons.  Only, I have already stocked up on the IL microswitch buttons.  I think I will be happy with only 3 or 4 leafs per side (6-8 total), but I want the black plunger and clear surround for the LEDs.  Has anyone tried to convert a microswitch button to a leaf?  Or, better yet, is there a matching leaf switch button on the market that has the clear/black combination I am looking for?   :dunno

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So you had to take apart each button and drill holes in the plastic?

You can also buy these:

Here:
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/home/electrical/leds/button-leds/100_il-lumination-rgb-5vdc-led-

They are designed to fit underneath the IL buttons and donít require any drilling.  They also come with 2ft. of wire that plug right into your iPac or whatever you are using.  Only downside is if you want to cut the wires.  Iíve located the housings for the wire leads if you decide to go that route and want to cut the wires a different length.

obizues

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They are designed to fit underneath the IL buttons and donít require any drilling.  They also come with 2ft. of wire that plug right into your iPac or whatever you are using.  Only downside is if you want to cut the wires.  Iíve located the housings for the wire leads if you decide to go that route and want to cut the wires a different length.

Do I need to wire up the LEDís and the buttons separately?  I was under the impression I could just buy buttons, wire them up, and they would be lit and working.

It sounds like I need to learn more about the wiring.

Do you know if there is a tutorial on how to setup the combination of buttons and LEDís you are talking about?  Iím confident I can figure out the LED blinks software as long as I wire everything up correctly.

Arroyo

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They are designed to fit underneath the IL buttons and donít require any drilling.  They also come with 2ft. of wire that plug right into your iPac or whatever you are using.  Only downside is if you want to cut the wires.  Iíve located the housings for the wire leads if you decide to go that route and want to cut the wires a different length.

Do I need to wire up the LEDís and the buttons separately?  I was under the impression I could just buy buttons, wire them up, and they would be lit and working.

It sounds like I need to learn more about the wiring.

Do you know if there is a tutorial on how to setup the combination of buttons and LEDís you are talking about?  Iím confident I can figure out the LED blinks software as long as I wire everything up correctly.

If you are going to use an RGB LED so that you can make any color of light you want then each LED will need 4 wires running to it (red,green,blue,black(ground)).  Separately from that each microswitch (at the base of the button) will have two wires so that when you press the button the signal is sent of a button press.

If (as it sounds like you are interested in) you are going to instead buy a colored button and light it up with a single color LED then you just need two wires for the LED and two wires for the microswitch (you could actually ditch one of the wires as you only really need one ground).

I think there are some buttons that have the LEDís preinstalled (maybe Japanese buttons but Iíll defer to PL1 or someone who knows more about it) but for the traditional American buttons (IL and Happ) to my knowledge there is no button with LEDís built in.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2018, 11:42:55 am by Arroyo »

obizues

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If you are going to use an RGB LED so that you can make any color of light you want then each LED will need 4 wires running to it (red,green,blue,black(ground)).  Separately from that each microswitch (at the base of the button) will have two wires so that when you press the button the signal is sent of a button press.

So it sounds like I need a controller for the lights and the controls.

If I assume Iím doing the LED method you are suggesting, what do I need to buy to power the lights and the controls for 5 joysticks and 38 total buttons.

obizues

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CP for reference:

Arroyo

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If you are going to use an RGB LED so that you can make any color of light you want then each LED will need 4 wires running to it (red,green,blue,black(ground)).  Separately from that each microswitch (at the base of the button) will have two wires so that when you press the button the signal is sent of a button press.

So it sounds like I need a controller for the lights and the controls.

If I assume Iím doing the LED method you are suggesting, what do I need to buy to power the lights and the controls for 5 joysticks and 24 total buttons.

There are all-in-one PCB boards, the most commonly used is probably the iPAC Ultimate I/O (https://www.ultimarc.com/ipacuio.html) which gives you 4 joysticks and 32 RGB led outputs (more if you went single LED), it also has a spinner and trackball inputs (simple computer mouse encoder).  The 1st and second player have 8 buttons that you could use and the 3rd and 4th player have 4 buttons dedicated.  Keep in mind that the inputs (joysticks buttons, etc) can be used by anything, you donít have to follow the layout as it is on the board, itís just arranged that way to make it easy to follow:


This is just a keyboard encoder (when you press buttons you are really hitting an ďaĒ or a ď2Ē from your computers perspective)

For the fifth joystick (Iím going to assume you want a dedicated 4 way) you could either try to wire to any unused inputs on the board or buy another keyboard encoder, or double up your wiring by wiring the inputs to one of the other joysticks you are already using (typically player 1)

Arroyo

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CP for reference:

Since Iíve spent A LOT of time working on my control panel design I might be able to save you some time. 

In looking at your layouts it appears as though the joysticks on players 1,3,4 are pretty close to the edge.  Since you are using SketchUp I might suggest going to the Sketchup warehouse and doing a search for the joystick you want (thereís usually someone who has done one, if not PM me as I have a lot of them).  I think you may find that the base of the joystick will be too close to the edge of your CP, and you also have to account for the base of your control panel which probably wonít come all the way to the edge of your CP.

Also this is a personal preference, but with the buttons and joysticks being close to the edge you canít rest your palms on the panel.  Some people donít care, but others find it annoying to have to float their hands above the buttons and joystick constantly.

PL1

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each LED will need 4 wires running to it (red,green,blue,black(ground)).
Minor correction: The fourth wire is the operating voltage since all of the well known arcade LED controllers are for "common anode" RGB LEDs.  The red, green, and blue channels are cathodes.  (grounds)



If you look at the lower left of the Ultimate I/O board, you'll notice that the pins are labeled "+ R G B".

I think there are some buttons that have the LEDís preinstalled (maybe Japanese buttons but Iíll defer to PL1 or someone who knows more about it) but for the traditional American buttons (IL and Happ) to my knowledge there is no button with LEDís built in.
The only Japanese-style buttons I've seen with pre-installed LEDs are the ones linked earlier in this thread by obizues, but I haven't been looking.   :dunno

A non-modding option for Japanese buttons is the Pele rings at Paradise.

For american-style buttons, there is also the GGG Electric Ice 2 with the option of True-Leaf Pro switch instead of a microswitch.


Scott

Arroyo

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each LED will need 4 wires running to it (red,green,blue,black(ground)).
Minor correction: The fourth wire is the operating voltage since all of the well known arcade LED controllers are for "common anode" RGB LEDs.  The red, green, and blue channels are cathodes.  (grounds)



If you look at the lower left of the Ultimate I/O board, you'll notice that the pins are labeled "+ R G B".

As usual, Scott is absolutely correct.  I always reverse that for some reason. :dizzy:

obizues

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In looking at your layouts it appears as though the joysticks on players 1,3,4 are pretty close to the edge.  Since you are using SketchUp I might suggest going to the Sketchup warehouse and doing a search for the joystick you want (thereís usually someone who has done one, if not PM me as I have a lot of them).  I think you may find that the base of the joystick will be too close to the edge of your CP, and you also have to account for the base of your control panel which probably wonít come all the way to the edge of your CP.
Agreed. I am going to move it back.

  
 

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