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Author Topic: loosing sync on my Egret 2  (Read 1067 times)

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OlDirty

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loosing sync on my Egret 2
« on: April 24, 2018, 04:35:46 pm »
Hi everyone

I just got familiar with Groovy mame and tried to set up my system. I use a desktop PC with a Radeon HD6450 graficcard which is connected with a J-Pac to my Egret 2 arcade cabinet.

The problem is, that it's completely out of sync as you see in the video down below.

https://youtu.be/G-BailqiCVs

What i did so far:
Installed the Windows 7/8/8.1/10-64-bit + CRT Emudriver 2.0 beta (ATI/AMD Radeon HD 2xxx to R9 series) as descrived in this thread
https://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=1052 .

Flashed my Radeon card with the ATOM 15 program (selected 15kHz and 25kHz)

opened VMMaker and chose the Nanao MS9-29 setting (should be the correct one for Egret 2 cabinet). I started the PC and it was out of sync. I unpluged and pluged the VGA cable and after several tries i had a "stable" picture. The problem was that it was a pit shaky so i thought let's try the "Arcade 15.7kHz" setting in VMMaker. What a mistake. Now the picture looks like this and unplug and plug in the VGA cable doesn't help anymore. Any advice how i could solve that problem?  ???
Is it normal that in windows the picture is a bit shaky even you chose the correct settings?

I also tried to solder the sync connections as mentioned in this thread, but it didn't solve my problem.  :badmood:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=152488.0

alex2005

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 06:57:29 am »
Have you tried with the generic 15khz, rather than the arcade 15khz setting?



OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2018, 08:15:58 am »
Problem is, how can i change the settings if i can't see anything  ???

alex2005

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2018, 12:51:15 pm »
are you sure the jumpers on jpac are correctly set?
can you boot in recovery mode?  afaik recovery should be at 640x480.

yo1dog

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2018, 01:41:30 pm »
Plug an LCD another into one of the other outputs of your graphics card. This way you can see the desktop. I recommend setting up Remote Desktop so you can control your PC even if you can't get a display.

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2018, 02:08:38 pm »
The video on youtube clearly looks 15 kHz, however sync is obviously off. First of all, try adjusting the H-freq potentiometer on the monitor chasis. If that doesn't work, then it might be a sync polarity mismatch, which can probably be fixed on either end (VMMaker or monitor chasis/jumpers).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2018, 03:15:05 pm »
Thanks for all the help! I pluged in a LCD Monitor (DVI Port) and got a picture again. I tried the Nanao MS9-29 and the Generic 15kHz setting in VMMaker, but it just doesn't wanna sync with my Egret. The thing is my cab won't be for MAME only. I have plenty of PCBs which i also wanna play on this cab and the PCBs run all perfect. So if possible i don't wanna mess around with my H-freq potentiometer.  :(
The jumpers on the J-Pac have absolute no influence on the result i get on the screen. I can jump none, just the 15KHz or the 15kHz and 24KHz with the same result.

What i tried yesterday was to solder on the J-Pac. http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=152488.0
Maybe this was the solution, but i desoldered it again because at the beginning i also had no sync with that.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 03:16:47 pm by OlDirty »

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2018, 03:43:23 pm »
So if possible i don't wanna mess around with my H-freq potentiometer.  :(

It's the first thing you need to discard, otherwise this is a waste of time. It is possible to adjust H-freq so both MAME and pcbs sync. If you've only used pcbs then chances are the pot is adjusted too low.

Using a JPAC already discards the other sync issues (composite/separate).

Don't use the Nanao preset until you figure out everything. Use the arcade_15 one instead. I think there is an autoswitch version of the MS9-29 and one that's not, the preset is only valid for the autoswitch version.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

Sledge

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 03:28:21 am »
Plus i'm pretty sure getting to the h-sync pot is ultra easy on the Egret isn't it?

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2018, 07:15:48 am »
I have no idea where the h-sync pot is, but i'll figure that our tonight i hope. Thank you guys for the help  :)

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 02:27:12 pm »
This happens when i turn on the H.H.15 in both directions.  ::)  https://youtu.be/Blyq6hUEHiE   Can't stop the picture rolling



« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 02:28:47 pm by OlDirty »

Twin-X

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2018, 02:44:44 pm »
Yes i have found a soul mate :)

I also have an egret 2 with JPAC and Groovymame, Exactly the same sync issues.

*i have picture, adjusting the jumpers on the jpac (only 15khz jumper) fixed it.
Now to find out to get rid of the flicker i think my ini file is wrong.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 05:52:29 pm by Twin-X »

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2018, 03:11:28 am »
In my case the Jumpers (15kHz, 24kHz, 31kHz) on the J-Pac have no influence at all. No sync whatever jumper setting i choose  :dunno

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 04:00:50 pm »
I need to ask this, sorry: your JPAC is properly powered through the USB connector, isn't it?
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

buttersoft

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2018, 07:58:58 pm »
Assuming the J-Pac is correctly connected...

It's rare for a J-Pac not to sync properly, but not impossible. You could try bypassing it and combining sync for yourself to test whether the J-Pac or the chassis is the problem. Itís probably just the pair together. The issue with leaving out the j-Pac in the long term is that you lose both 15kHz protection and video amplification. The former can be replaced with Atom-15, and for the latter you might try either turning up the video pots on the chassis or using a THS7316 or similar IC.

To combine sync for yourself you would get a VGA breakout, or build one. You feed the colours directly into the chassis Ė if you canít see anything, turn up the screen pot on the flyback and all the video pots. Each sync line can go into a 500R resistor and then a 1k potentiometer, then combine into a third 1k potentiometer set to zero at first. Dial the first two pots around and see what you can get. If you get a stable image, replace the pots with resistors. Once stable, dial up the third pot as far as you can Ė if it tops out, add a 1k resistor and do it again.

This is pretty ghetto, but every Arcade, TV or PVM chassis Iíve ever tried it on has worked. If youíre not happy with it, something like an extron 190f might work as well. But if the above doesnít sync first, I doubt the extron will. And you may still need video amplification of some sort Ė you shouldnít need to amplify sync though.

https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62265

Sledge

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2018, 01:38:22 am »
In my case the Jumpers (15kHz, 24kHz, 31kHz) on the J-Pac have no influence at all. No sync whatever jumper setting i choose  :dunno
Does the sync light come on on the J-Pac?
As Calamity says above.. you DO have it connected correctly as per instructions?

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2018, 03:09:51 pm »
I could finaly test again and it looks like this on the Jpac when Windows is running.

Is this normal that it looks like this when the PC is booting (see video). I patched my Radeon card with Atom 15. I just wanna be sure everything is ok and i don't harm my arcade chassis.

https://youtu.be/d4_fP6utm-U


Sledge

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2018, 06:37:01 pm »
Yes, the sync lights are on, so that's ok...
But if you have successfully flashed an atom15 bios to that card it should have a stable picture during boot as well.
Whether what is being shown will damage anything or not i don't know.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 06:42:41 pm by Sledge »

funkycochise

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2018, 04:10:48 am »
did you try to output a picture before you flashed the video card ?

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2018, 06:36:18 am »
No i haven't tried it before flashing the card. Was anxious to destroy my chassis so i flashed it before i first tried. Do you think the flashing went wrong?

I also connected now my PC to my Egret 3 and got the same unsynced picture. Connected it the same way as i tried it with my Egret 2 (over J-Pac).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 10:08:36 am by OlDirty »

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2018, 10:34:13 am »
Hi OlDirty,

Please read the following and consider answering the specific questions.

1.- Are you sure your monitor can switch automatically between 15 and 25 kHz?

This is the super important question you need to find an answer to.

If you are not sure, then don't use presets that use 15 and 25 kHz at the same time.

This goes for ATOM-15. You said you marked 15 and 25 kHz. This will force the boot sequence to 25 kHz. If your monitor's chassis is configured to use 15 kHz, then it won't sync.

2.- Have you ever used that monitor successfully with a different source? E.g. an arcade pcb. If so, which frequency was it using?

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 11:12:15 am »
Hi Calamity

1.- Are you sure your monitor can switch automatically between 15 and 25 kHz?
I guess my chassis is not an automatic switching one. It has no relais as the automatic switching chassis have. Got this information here: https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?t=21831
My chassis is the one in the attached picture.

Do i have to flash the card again for 15kHz only with ATOM 15? Is this possible?

2.- Have you ever used that monitor successfully with a different source? E.g. an arcade pcb. If so, which frequency was it using?
Yes i used this chassis with many Cave PCBs, CPS2 games, 1942 and Gunbird 2. Was running always fine with these PCBs.

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 01:05:41 pm »
Do i have to flash the card again for 15kHz only with ATOM 15? Is this possible?

Sure, just mark the 15 kHz checkbox only and patch the bios.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

funkycochise

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 02:15:14 pm »
Egret 2 chassis may work in 15K or 25K but with manual switching.
using a JammaSD or a JPac prevents normally from sending wring frenquency
so video card flashing is in my opinion useless.

I still donít understand what you are seeing if youíre outputting 25K,
and that your Jpac allows only 15K.

Anyway, bring back your card in original state to sort your troubles out.

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 02:18:02 pm »
I'm going crazy. Now i can't even get a picture with a normal PC monitor over DVI or HDMI. Maybe the only solution is to throw that PC out of the window  :censored: How should i flash the card if i can't even see anything.

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 05:12:22 pm »
Someone please tell OlDirty how to manually switch his chassis to 25 kHz so he can reflash his video card. Or, use a motherboard with 2 pcie slots and flash your video card while using an unflashed one.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

buttersoft

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2018, 09:21:12 pm »
Someone please tell OlDirty how to manually switch his chassis to 25 kHz so he can reflash his video card. Or, use a motherboard with 2 pcie slots and flash your video card while using an unflashed one.

Could post up in the monitor/video subforum for the former...

Zipper

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 05:16:01 am »
Someone please tell OlDirty how to manually switch his chassis to 25 kHz so he can reflash his video card. Or, use a motherboard with 2 pcie slots and flash your video card while using an unflashed one.

There is a plug in the purple box in the image a few posts back. Unplug that and put it on the empty socket directly next to it. Both sockets are labelled (15khz and 25khz). Just plug into whichever mode you want to use.

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2018, 01:51:43 pm »
I changed the plug to 25kHz on the Chassis aaaaand... No pic. It's even worse  ;D

https://youtu.be/nXBA762yMDc

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2018, 03:53:03 pm »
The JPAC led doesn't sync. I'd start from scratch:

- Set your monitor back to 15 kHz.
- Flash your card back with its original BIOS. You need to do this in a separate computer with 2 pcie slots and another normal video card that acts as primary card so you can see what you do.
- Then start again, use VMMaker, EDID emulation, etc. And NEVER flash the card until you have the other stuff figured out. And only mark 15khz when flashing.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2018, 02:21:26 pm »
I exchanged the grafic card with an exact same new one . I ordered 2 of these because i wanted to set up 2 PCs. Maybe i won't setup one :embarassed:. The result after i exchanged the card can be seen here. Unfortunately it didn't change f. anything. 

https://youtu.be/SG-1O6ipiBM

on the desktop in Display->Resolution it shows the correct LCD Monitor which is connected on the DVI port. So i didn't let CRT EMUDRiver run again.

VMMAKER:

i tried these 3 settings (Arcade 15.7kHz, Generic 15.7kHz, Nanao MS9-29) and got no sync in any mode. VMMAKER Settings can be seen in the pictures.

Could it be that my game PCBs use a voodoo doll so MAME won't work on my Arcade machine?!?

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2018, 02:49:46 pm »
Select arcade_15 on the correct output, then generate and install modes. It won't probably change anything but I want to discard non-working edid emulation.

Also, try disconnecting and reconnecting the JPAC's usb cable, with everything on.

Anyway if possible try feeding an lcd with the output from the vga connector, if you're lucky enough it should tell you the frequency that's being output (it should be 15 kHz).
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2018, 01:43:11 pm »
Ok what i did so far.

VMMAKER
Monitor Settings:
I selected Arcade 15.7kHz

Video Card:
Device: \\DISPLAY 2...
Output: Analog_0

Then i pressed generate modes and install modes.

I connected a LCD Monitor via VGA Cable and got the message "15kHz out of Range". Then i connected my Egret 2 and the picture wasn't synchronized. I disconnected and connected the USB Cable of the JPAC but it didn't change anything. Picture just got a bit darker when i unpluged the USB cable. I also tried that with the VGA cable but no sucess.

I also connected this PC to my Egret 3 which has a tri sinc chassis and got the same result. No synchronized picture.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 03:15:10 pm by OlDirty »

cools

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2018, 05:31:43 am »
Going to go out on a limb and suggest your J-PAC is faulty. I've had one go bad like this in the past.

Try your Egret 3 with direct VGA.
Please don't PM me with support questions. Ask in public so everyone can learn!

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2018, 05:34:36 am »
I'm with cools.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

funkycochise

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2018, 10:10:54 am »
yes, experience shows that every single part of the chain must be checked
separately. Donít you have access to a jammaSD to borrow ?

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2018, 11:19:54 am »
Unfortunately i have no JammaSD (is it the same as the J-Pac?) to borrow. I just found this information and it seems the same  ??? https://www.google.com/search?q=jammaSD&client=firefox-b-ab&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Du_3ruSlwcHdJM%253A%252C3z8sYKlSKD1zMM%252C_&usg=__kc5ui4qtvQtIqkQUEXADs8Dg8VE%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIusGHkJzbAhWF6CwKHS7kDH0Q9QEINTAB#imgrc=jYZAm40Mg6TCtM:

I bought the J-Pac brand new.
Anyway i would like to connect my PC to the Egret 3 to check if the J-Pac is faulty. Can i just connect the chassis with the black VGA cable to my PC or do i have to put thet big PCB in between? Sorry for this noobish question, but i don't wanna brick my Egret 3 chassis  :-\.

cools

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2018, 12:26:43 pm »
Either. That PCB is just a pass through
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OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2018, 12:56:40 pm »
I pluged my Egret 3 directly to the PC via the VGA cable aaaand?!? I have a picture  ;D, a synchroniced one  :notworthy:. It's a bit shaky in Windows mode, but i think that's normal. Mame still doesn't run so i can't check more. During start up the chassis doesn't sound healthy. A strange chirp comes from the chassis. Is that dangerous or just normal?

So i guess my new J-Pac is broken, nice  :-\. Right?

Will have to buy 2 new J-Pacs for my Egret 2 and Egret 3.

Thanks everybody so much for your help. I nearly gave up on that project.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 12:58:23 pm by OlDirty »

cools

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2018, 01:08:20 pm »
On my E3 I just use the interface board you've shown and a JVS-PAC for controls, and plug the VGA directly into the PC. The GPU is ATOM15 patched.

i also run in 31k only with fake scanlines, to avoid modeswitching too much.
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