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Author Topic: loosing sync on my Egret 2  (Read 2795 times)

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OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2018, 01:29:52 pm »
Can i ask you why not using a simple J-Pac combined with a speparate audio amp instead of the JVS-Pac and the interface board?

A new JVS board should is developed.
https://irkenlabs.com/33-second-iteration-of-the-jvs-pac-2

cools

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2018, 02:55:00 pm »
The interface board is an audio amp and kick harness adapter. Its particularly designed for chucking a PC type board into that cab.
Please don't PM me with support questions. Ask in public so everyone can learn!

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2018, 09:57:12 am »
Quote
The most common cause of this type of issue with using software methods to generate 15Khz scan is the sync pulse width is out of spec, ie too narrow. This can confuse the J-PAC but work direct to some monitors which might be OK with out of spec pulses.

I just had a email conversation with the shop i bought my module and they think it's unlikely that the J-Pac is faulty. What you guys think? Anything else i could try?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 09:58:48 am by OlDirty »

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2018, 10:38:20 am »
I just had a email conversation with the shop i bought my module and they think it's unlikely that the J-Pac is faulty. What you guys think? Anything else i could try?

I agree it's unlikely that the JPAC is faulty, but it's not impossible. That's why we started testing everything else.

I have a JPAC in my cabinet and I'm using the same software. Hundreds of people. And your JPAC's leds are lit, so it's recognizing the syncs.

Can you borrow another JPAC from someone in your area?

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2018, 01:03:44 pm »
Unfortunately i don't know anybody else here. But thanks for your opinion.

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2018, 02:47:30 pm »
Unfortunately i don't know anybody else here. But thanks for your opinion.

where is "there" ?
No matter one's station in life, the Dance of Death unites us all.

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2018, 01:58:45 am »
Switzerland. But i guess i have to buy a new one and hope for the best  :-[

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2018, 04:12:59 am »
Just got my second J-Pac yesterday aaaand?!? Still no sync  :cry:  What the hell is wrong with my setup...

cools

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2018, 12:00:47 pm »
This happens when i turn on the H.H.15 in both directions.  ::)  https://youtu.be/Blyq6hUEHiE   Can't stop the picture rolling

Okay, I'm suspicious of this now. One - 5 seconds is very fast to turn an MS9 HH pot, it takes a moment to find sync so it's possible you are turning too fast, but also it doesn't look like there's any real change to the rolling.

On your Egret 2: Plug some normal PCBs in. Turning the pot all the way in either direction should make them desync, and you can move the pot back to make them resync afterwards.

If it doesn't desync at all then something is broken.
Please don't PM me with support questions. Ask in public so everyone can learn!

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2018, 02:55:39 pm »
I tried again the potentiometer H.H.
Here in the video i turn the potentiometer clockwise till i have no picture anymore and then back again. Problem is, that i first turned the "PARA" in all directions. A cable was covering a potentiometer and so i thought that's the H.H.  :dizzy: . What does this "PARA" potentiometer? Can i just turn it again?

https://youtu.be/hIo_hxy-rRY


Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2018, 04:34:43 pm »
I'm almost sure it's a problem with c-sync not going to the right pin in the chassis for some odd reason. JPAC already mixes H & V syncs together and outputs proper negative c-sync. Usually that signal must be fed to the H pin in the chassis. You should see a connector with 5 pins: R, G, B, GND, H, V.  Usually the V wire is only used for separate sync, not your case. In your situation, I'd put a new wire directly from the JAMMA H sync pin right to the H pin in the chassis.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2018, 03:35:36 pm »
OK if the last solution is to solder on my chassis i'll give up. My PCBs are running fine and I won't mess around with my precious Egret 2 chassis. It's a pitty, but i still have an Egret 3 for the horizontal Games.
Thanks really a lot for everybodys help and sorry that i come to an end here.

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2018, 04:13:46 pm »
No worries, it's understandable.

Anyway just in case check this. It's probably totally unrelated but it shows how sometimes non-standard wiring or connectors can be the cause of inexplicable issues.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

funkycochise

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2018, 01:12:45 am »
https://youtu.be/s8d7Q0zkl5o
this sample video show my egret2 running groovymame for amstrad cpc emulation.

I use calamityís groovymame since few years now on my stock egret 2.
Hd5450 + jammaSD, direct vga plug from video card to jammaSD input.
Iím working in 15K only.

I hope it will put a bit of faith in your quest.

Zipper

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2018, 01:47:07 pm »
Maybe try a good quality mini usb cable. Iíve had one delivered with a jpac that wasnít able to power it properly.

OlDirty

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Egret 3 also doesn't synch with J-Pac
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2018, 02:20:31 pm »
I tried different USB Cables but no luck.
So i took this PC and connected it directly to the monitor cable of my Egret 3 and i have a synched picture. If i connect it via the J-Pac i have a unsynched picture again ( https://youtu.be/un7mU_o-nvQ ), like on the Egret 2. So in my opinion there must be something with these J-Pacs or the software is not compatible with these J-Pacs. I have no idea.  :dizzy:

I know i could connect it directly but i would rather have it connected via Jamma and the J-Pac. Like this i can easy switch to normal PCBs.

funkycochise

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2018, 10:36:16 pm »
Sell the j pacs, and go for Jamma SD

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2018, 01:34:33 am »
But the Jamma SD is more like a little stand alone "PC" which you connect to the Jamma plug, no? I already have a Raspberry PI which runs with Jamma but that thing has too less power. That's the reason i wanted to change to a PC with Groovy Mame. To have the most acurate emulation possible.

Paradroid

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2018, 03:23:50 am »
How are you with soldering? There are other DIY ways...

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OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2018, 03:26:13 am »
I would say i'm good with soldering. I just don't wanna touch my chassis or change the wiring in my cabs.  ::) So do you have an idea what i could try?

Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2018, 07:27:58 am »
There are things you can try before touching your cab's wiring.

Let's break out the problem. This is what we have:

- The JPAC leds are lit, this means it is receiving a correct sync signal.
- The JPAC outputs c-sync through JAMMA pin 13, solder side.
- There should be a wire that goes from there, directly to a pin in the chassis, usually the H-sync pin is used for c-sync.

So you need to check if that wire is where it should be, if it's interrupted by something, if it goes to the right pin, etc.

If you have an oscilloscope, then you could also check if there's a correct c-sync signal going into the chassis.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2018, 12:56:52 pm »
Thanks for your tips.

I measured the synch signal i get out of the J-Pac on Pin 13. I thought i check this first and if that's ok i go for the cables.

here's the pic. I hope that's clear enough.

scale: 1V  / 20 us

f= 1/ 64us = 15.625kHz
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 01:05:35 pm by OlDirty »

funkycochise

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2018, 02:09:16 pm »
But the Jamma SD is more like a little stand alone "PC" which you connect to the Jamma plug, no? I already have a Raspberry PI which runs with Jamma but that thing has too less power. That's the reason i wanted to change to a PC with Groovy Mame. To have the most acurate emulation possible.
no, JammaSD is just a jpac alternative that is slightly the same :
jamma finger board, sound amplifier but video amplifier.
it also has video security via jumper.

and itís cheaper and less fragile than jpac

http://www.smallcab.net/jammasd-jamma-converter-p-1053.html?language=en

I have no particular with this shop. Heís just serious and has reasonnable prices.

http://www.arcadeshop.de/images/specs/JammASD.pdf
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 02:19:49 pm by funkycochise »

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #63 on: June 21, 2018, 02:59:01 pm »
Aha. I just found another board when i used google. That board looks really promising, even a audio amp is on board. :applaud: Thanks  ;D

I just recorded the sync signal which comes from my Neo Geo MVS board and that looks quite different than the one from the J-Pac  :dunno

« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 03:01:47 pm by OlDirty »

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #64 on: June 21, 2018, 03:42:23 pm »
I just recorded the sync signal which comes from my Neo Geo MVS board and that looks quite different than the one from the J-Pac  :dunno

Looks like your jpac is outputting positive sync whereas the MVS is putting out negative.

Is there a sync flip on the jpac? Can do it using Calamity's software if not.
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OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2018, 04:03:38 pm »
No DipSwitch or jumper on the J-Pac. I don't know if a software negation is possible.

I just found something from here: https://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/viewtopic.php?id=295

Quote
  - [Arcade OSD] Correctly assign sync polarity to AMD HD 5000+ cards. Because AMD documentation is wrong, VMMaker where assigning the polarities the wrong way. This must be the direct cause of most out-of-sync issues reported till now. What happened is that GM assigned positive sync instead of negative, and vice versa. This is fixed now, but you'll need to update your crt_range definitions. By default, negative sync (0) is what should be used in most cases. Thanks to intealls for doing proper checks with an oscilloscope and R-Typer for double-checking.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 04:06:38 pm by OlDirty »

Paradroid

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2018, 07:07:39 pm »
I don't know if a software negation is possible.

Mate, of course it is! H and V sync polarities are right there in the GroovyMAME monitor specs definitions.

Check the stickied posts...


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Calamity

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2018, 12:35:58 pm »
Ok, your oscilloscope shots speak by themselves.

The JPAC combines syncs but it does not invert them, so definitely the video card is outputting composite sync (you can double check it by probing the H-sync pin of the VGA output). That's odd because, by default, VMMaker always creates negative syncs unless you configure it for positive polarities.

It might be happening due to a version mismatch, between Emudriver & tools. AMD has changed the related flags several times so that part of the software is a bit of a mess and somewhat based on heuristics.

So before inverting the syncs by means of the crt_range definition, my advice is to reinstall the driver, making sure you pick the newest version, not the one based on 12.6 (as it's shown in your screenshots some posts above).

That might alone solve the issue. It not, play with the polarity flags in the crt_range line (they can either be 0 or 1) and re-create the modes.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2018, 04:28:02 am »
Thanks for the info. i hope we finaly found the misterious behaviour.
So would the Crimson 16.2.1 CRT Emudriver be the correct one?

OlDirty

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2018, 08:29:55 am »
I just wanna confirm that my system is running now fine. No synch problems anymore after i installed the Crimson 16.2.1 CRT Emudriver                  . Groovy mame is absolute awesome!! The games look stunning on my cabs. Thanks so much for all your effort!!
I have to read now all the instructions about all the mame settings to optimize my systems. Have to figure out how i can check if my groovy mame is running as it should (game speed, input latency,..).

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Re: loosing sync on my Egret 2
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2018, 08:33:40 pm »
I just wanna confirm that my system is running now fine.

So good to hear that you finally got there!

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