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Author Topic: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls  (Read 6819 times)

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leapinlew

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2018, 10:17:18 pm »
My current Star Wars cabinet has an exit game, and coin up. For me, it's not a huge deal to have a zero delay encoder to handle those functions.

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2018, 10:52:30 pm »
Love some brainstorming here.
1. I know the primary purpose of this encoder is as a yoke adapter, but could it also support other controls?
- 270 degree wheel + pedals
- Lunar Lander thruster
- T-Mek twin triggersticks

2. The SW Molex is a common layout, but there are other yoke pinouts so it might be a good idea to also have screw terminal connections in parallel with the Molex connector.

SW pinout




3. How many input ports are available?  Makes no sense to leave them unused.
- How many A/D converter ports for potentiometers?
  -- Bonus points for being able to enable/disable ports and select which axis is assigned to the port.
  -- Points deducted for an always-on Z-axis port that causes constant scrolling if it isn't connected and centered.   :banghead:
- How many digital-only ports for buttons?

4. Will this be only an analog gamepad firmware (pots + gamepad buttons) or can it be a hybrid/composite gamepad + keyboard HID firmware so users don't need an AHK script to convert gamepad button presses into keystrokes like ESC. (exit)
- Usually not a problem in MAME, but some other emulators and standalone games are less flexible.

5. Other possible firmware features:
  - LED controller firmware for blinking volcano buttons or Lunar Lander Mission control panel?
  - Mouse firmware for spinner/trackall/360 degree wheel?


Scott

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2018, 11:53:40 am »
Let me answer a few questions.  I really hope to help keep arcades and the emulation community thriving.  This is a hobby for me and not a real business.  I've loved Atari and classic gaming long before it was ever considered "classic".  I'm not proud about not collecting prepayments, but I didn't want to do what the folks at Ram controls did and take prepayments and not be able to deliver.   

I wish we could have sold these for a lower price.  Someone on this thread said that Atari manufactured these in 1983 for $200.  I'm not sure where that stat came from but assuming that its true, because of inflation, $200 in 1983 = $505 in today's' dollars--according to these websites:

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983
https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983
http://www.in2013dollars.com/1983-dollars-in-2018?amount=200

That actually makes me feel pretty good about the value we are delivering.  These controllers are so complex--it just costs a lot to build them in 1983 and in 2018.

I like your idea of selling kits that you could put together yourself.  I'll investigate that so we could pass those savings onto hobbyist.

Over on KLOV, people are reproducing old game parts all the time to help keep these games running.  Patents expire after 20 years. These yokes are no longer covered under patents, so they are perfectly legal to sell.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=How-Long-Does-Patent-Trademark-or-Copyright-Protection-Last

Lastly, we are calling them Alan-1 Flight Yokes--to avoid any licensing concerns.

The Atari Paddles are so much simpler to reproduce.  I don't have any quotes yet, but I'm certain our USB version would be inexpensive.  I'm building it really for me, so I can play Kaboom! and warlords in style.

 Well, I was not trying to put you down,  just disappointed that it seems you are doing it for your own Arcade + a small few that are able to
scramble with big gobs of free-cash... to get their limited parts reproductions in... rather than an Affordable set of parts / controls,  for the masses of
classic fans + collectors.   (I too grew up in the height of the classic 80s Arcade era... and got to play almost every classic arcade machine, that was worth playing)

   The reality is that Scam Controls  (and many other scam-starters)  have abused and damaged the trust of others... so its good to see someone who
was genuine about their business practices.  Still... once these ship, and you have proven your reputation... it would be good to see a different approach.


 As for the so called  "Inflation"  calculators... thats all  BS.   The cost of labor and parts in that time period was far lower.  Even shipping costs were probably
lower to boot.   Taxes were lower.  Cost of living,  and cost of business was lower  (space, utilities, taxes, licenses... ) .. Hell... the actual
Value of the US Dollar, was also far higher too.

 I know it may be apples to oranges... but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600.   The thing has FAR more parts,
and probably enough raw steel to make 100 yokes.   And honestly... If one looks around long enough,  one may be able to pick up a full Starwars Arcade machine
for about  $800 to $1200..  which is not much more than you are asking for a single controller assembly.   The only bad parts on them tend to be potentially cracked
gears... or a broken trigger button.  (well, if we count the full machine... then add the potential for the failing Vector monitors  >_< )


 As for the  Paddles...  I have an idea,  that maybe you could help put into reality...

 Paddles are nice for Paddle games... but what about making them so that they can also support 360 degree driving wheel games too?  (IE: Supersprint)

 - With a simple locking and unlocking mechanism... one could physically limit travel for paddle use  vs  full rotation use.

 - Using a high resolution optical solution,  one could probably convert the values to be as smoothly accurate, as a pot... and high enough for
a spinner game such as the Geared-Spinner of Arkanoid.. to be at 100% accurate arcade resolution.

 - If the spinner is made similar to the Discs of Tron mechanism... it could be used to push and pull,  triggering leaf-switches, for Discs of Tron and other uses.

 - On an even more Epic level... one could install a brushless? direct-drive motor-driven force feedback,  to work with games like Hard/Race Drivin.

 Namco made a similar Force-Feedback spinner mechanism called the Jog-Con, for the Playstation 1.  However,  Namco used a geared motor drive.. and that
caused too much friction to be used for free-spinning 360 degree driving games... and even then, still was a bit much drag + noise, 
for normal driving game use. 

 Where as a direct-shaft-drive-mechanism similar to the Cockpit version of Race Drivin,  which used the actual motor shaft as a direct steering wheel mount,
would be the best solution.    This would allow the user to easily enable or disable the feedback,  and even could possible use the feedback itself as
an automatic physical limitation system... for games like Pong.   Obviously, the motor will have to be quite strong + high power,  to be effective for this use.

 - Id also put in both digital and analog buttons on the controller.  The finger buttons would best be actual Leaf-switches, for best feel + for best rapidfire
without fatigue.  Then one of them would be a sliding analog trigger for gas.  Finally, one could be a Pressure-Sensor based button.. for high-resolution Brake-Pedal
use in Hard Drivin,  and other Racing Sim games.

 Not only could a controller like this be great for personal and or travel use... but it could be used in bartops, and mame machines.. with a simple shell removal
and re-mount.  (which could be part of the design,  that included a different mount + shaft extender)

 - Going all out... one could add an LED lighting option... to make a ring of multi-colored lighting effects.

 - I would add a small port on the device for the paddles to be able to hook up to actual pedal sets,  should the Op want to use foot pedals instead
of the in-hand analog controls.

 - Id also suggest possibly linking each paddle to each other, via a different onboard port.    That would make for less cables,
and no need for a separate high powered USB hub.  (Force feeback in itself may require a nice beefy power supply / transformer)


Mike A

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2018, 12:00:55 pm »
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.


pixel

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2018, 07:31:11 pm »
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.



 It was in storage.

 Ended up losing a lot of stuff in the process... but was able to save some things.

 I realize that some people are Consistent Liars and are also constantly negative + Toxic ... and they Love to REFLECT their own toxic traits into other people...
but you are wrong.  Wrong in every way.  (especially on the Inside)


 Btw - I met one guy from this site,  when I had to sell my Spy Hunter.  I was keeping it at my friends art studio.
He was kind enough to let me crash in his studio for a short time,  (and to finish restoring it there)  and I was also
lucky that said BYOAC'er bought my machine.. as I did not have enough money to pay my car insurance.

 I forget his user/name.  I believe he was one that has several machines built right into his walls,  all in a row.
He was going to just use the controls to make another mame setup.. but after playing it. decided to keep it as is.

 It was not long after that.  It was noticed by others in the building, that I was at the studio too long.. as you are
not supposed to "live" there...

 So... I was sleeping in my minivan in the middle of the winter, in the parking lot.

 I was wearing like 3 layers of clothing, several layers of blankets, and still was freezing.  I also wore my Sennheiser
headphones as earmuffs.  They lasted about 13 years of prior abuse, without damage,  which included me falling asleep
with them on many times... but the brutal cold caused the flexible plastic to become brittle,  and easily crack under stresses
that it normally would have been fine with.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 07:52:27 pm by pixel »

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2018, 12:16:48 am »
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.



 It was in storage.

 Ended up losing a lot of stuff in the process... but was able to save some things.

 I realize that some people are Consistent Liars and are also constantly negative + Toxic ... and they Love to REFLECT their own toxic traits into other people...
but you are wrong.  Wrong in every way.  (especially on the Inside)


 Btw - I met one guy from this site,  when I had to sell my Spy Hunter.  I was keeping it at my friends art studio.
He was kind enough to let me crash in his studio for a short time,  (and to finish restoring it there)  and I was also
lucky that said BYOAC'er bought my machine.. as I did not have enough money to pay my car insurance.

 I forget his user/name.  I believe he was one that has several machines built right into his walls,  all in a row.
He was going to just use the controls to make another mame setup.. but after playing it. decided to keep it as is.

 It was not long after that.  It was noticed by others in the building, that I was at the studio too long.. as you are
not supposed to "live" there...

 So... I was sleeping in my minivan in the middle of the winter, in the parking lot.

 I was wearing like 3 layers of clothing, several layers of blankets, and still was freezing.  I also wore my Sennheiser
headphones as earmuffs.  They lasted about 13 years of prior abuse, without damage,  which included me falling asleep
with them on many times... but the brutal cold caused the flexible plastic to become brittle,  and easily crack under stresses
that it normally would have been fine with.

Sounds like you didn't insulate your minivan.

If I had only one wish, it would be for three more wishes.

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2018, 04:47:57 pm »
While I commend PL1's thoughtfulness, that is getting involved. I think at least five inputs, and recommend at least ten for good measure.



@pixel: I recommend you start a dedicated pixel thread in EE, to accommodate your perambulations.

pixel

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2018, 12:59:19 am »
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.



 It was in storage.

 Ended up losing a lot of stuff in the process... but was able to save some things.

 I realize that some people are Consistent Liars and are also constantly negative + Toxic ... and they Love to REFLECT their own toxic traits into other people...
but you are wrong.  Wrong in every way.  (especially on the Inside)


 Btw - I met one guy from this site,  when I had to sell my Spy Hunter.  I was keeping it at my friends art studio.
He was kind enough to let me crash in his studio for a short time,  (and to finish restoring it there)  and I was also
lucky that said BYOAC'er bought my machine.. as I did not have enough money to pay my car insurance.

 I forget his user/name.  I believe he was one that has several machines built right into his walls,  all in a row.
He was going to just use the controls to make another mame setup.. but after playing it. decided to keep it as is.

 It was not long after that.  It was noticed by others in the building, that I was at the studio too long.. as you are
not supposed to "live" there...

 So... I was sleeping in my minivan in the middle of the winter, in the parking lot.

 I was wearing like 3 layers of clothing, several layers of blankets, and still was freezing.  I also wore my Sennheiser
headphones as earmuffs.  They lasted about 13 years of prior abuse, without damage,  which included me falling asleep
with them on many times... but the brutal cold caused the flexible plastic to become brittle,  and easily crack under stresses
that it normally would have been fine with.

Sounds like you didn't insulate your minivan.




 Its easy to do such a project when you have:

  a)  Money to spare  (Insulation foam is NOT cheap! )
  b)  Time and a 'friendly' environment

 When you have just scraped enough money to pay you car insurance...  and what little left is for food + gas...
then considering foam insulation purchase... is not on the menu.

 I had just enough time,  to scrounge some cardboard,  to make an internal 'box',  to conceal me inside of it.
You see... Police and or citizens spotting you sleeping in your car/van... can be a problem.  Covering all of the
windows, just draws Police attention.   I found this out the hard way,  the first time that this happened to me.

 Also... if you think that foam is going to do much to keep you warm in single digit temperature... you are
mistaken.   Thats like thinking a foam cup will keep room temperature coffee 'warm' for 6hrs,  when put into the freezer.

 Thermal foam in these temps,  would have to be like  +8 inches thick... to even have a mild effect.

 I did use an Emergency  "Space-Blanket"  ... which did help a lot, to reflect Infrared body heat from escaping me.
Even so... It had to be inside of my clothing layers, to do much,  at those temps.  If its like 50 degrees (f) ... then
you would notice a heated feeling from such a blanket,  even if its around clothing.  But at temps below 40... the
body heat is taken away fast... to the point that you do not feel much of an effect at all... unless its right against the
skin... and is well insulated... with more clothing layers to help keep the heat from dissipating.

 I did also have a 1.5" thick gym mat, that I found dirt cheap, at the thrift shop,  that I was using for the floor covering.
It was not very soft.. and it did still get ice cold... but it was still much better than laying directly on the van flooring.

 I believe I ran the vans engine for like 15 min,  and blasted the heat until it was like +90 degrees inside... before shutting
it off... and quickly scrambling into the rear 'hut'.  The heat would not last that long.. but it was enough to help get
you to sleep easier.   I had no other means of heat... and I really did not want to run the engine for long, if I could help it.

 I was fortunate,  as I got a job before the last sub $200 I had on me,  ran out.

 Even then... I was still not out of the woods.  Id spend most of the night at work (after hours)... and would get a few hrs
sleep in the van.   I didnt make enough for an apt., until about a year in, after a raise.  Its been a real rough time for me.

Shredder1

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #48 on: March 29, 2019, 01:56:13 pm »
OK, so I finally splurged last month.

Got the Yoke Super fast.   the USB control board took a bit longer, but it FINALLY got here today, so I was finally able to test it out :).

It really DOES work right out of the box. at least on windows ten .  you have no idea how happy I am to finally be able to play star wars arcade and ROTJ the way it was meant to be played.  the last working arcade game that was in the wild out here that I know of is now at the bottom of the ocean thanks to superstorm sandy and probably on it's way to spain  by now across the currents.  I knew I should have offered to buy that machine the last time I saw it on repair.

anyway,   Two questions.
1)How can I calibrate it so it moves left/right/up down properly?   a little fiddling around with the mapping only gets it to go upper left and upper right so far.

And 2)  If I'm just going to use this on a pc at current (dream build would be a full arcade machine one day)......how can I mount this sucker so I don't damage it or the control board?  is there a 3D printable device I can install it in?
thanks

PL1

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #49 on: March 29, 2019, 03:46:05 pm »
1)How can I calibrate it so it moves left/right/up down properly?   a little fiddling around with the mapping only gets it to go upper left and upper right so far.
1. Check/calibrate the encoder in Windows.
- Find the encoder icon under Control Panel -- Device and Printers.
- Right-click on icon -- Game controller settings.
- Left-click on "Properties" button.
- Does moving the yoke through the full range of X-axis and Y-axis motion cause the crosshairs to move accordingly across the entire white box?
-- If yes,  there's no need to calibrate.
-- If no, go to "Settings" tab and Left-click on "Calibrate" button.



2. In the MAME "Input (this game)" menu, set the "Inc" and "Dec" inputs to "none".



3. In the "Analog Controls" menu, set autocenter to 0 and adjust sensitivity as desired.



4. After Star Wars boots up, move the yoke in the largest possible rectangle several times -- the game will automatically calibrate based on the greatest range of values returned by the pots.   ;D

2)  If I'm just going to use this on a pc at current (dream build would be a full arcade machine one day)......how can I mount this sucker so I don't damage it or the control board?  is there a 3D printable device I can install it in?
thanks
I don't know if anyone has designed a 3d printed mount sturdy enough to handle the impact against the left/right stops and large enough to not tip over during vigorous gameplay.   :dunno

You might want to consider building a housing like this.

Here is a printable PDF mounting template for a SW yoke.


Scott
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 03:55:41 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #50 on: March 29, 2019, 04:27:36 pm »
The Yoke is not for me but I love that it exists. I was giving up hope of ever seeing any arcade quality peripherals for the home market.

I hope you make more products. Maybe a fixed gun project next.

On the adapter, do these yokes just use a couple of pots plus some digital buttons? I don't remember the original arcade having force feedback but it was a long time ago...

 I use an Apac to connect a real arcade fixed gun to my mame pc. It uses 2 pots to move. As well as fixed gun games, I have been using it for flight games like afterburner. I'm curious if these yokes are the same under the hood.

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #51 on: March 29, 2019, 06:16:43 pm »
On the adapter, do these yokes just use a couple of pots plus some digital buttons? I don't remember the original arcade having force feedback but it was a long time ago...
SW yokes have 2 pots and 4 buttons. (2 triggers + 2 thumb buttons)

There's no active FFB, just spring tension to return the X and Y axes to center.

I use an Apac to connect a real arcade fixed gun to my mame pc. It uses 2 pots to move. As well as fixed gun games, I have been using it for flight games like afterburner. I'm curious if these yokes are the same under the hood.
Positional guns and SW yokes are electrically the same -- pots and buttons.

You can connect them to any analog gamepad encoder such as the plug-and-play yoke encoder shown in OP, A-Pac, U-HID, KADE miniArcade 2.0, Sidewinder hack . . .


Scott

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2019, 10:11:20 am »
thanks :)  I'll mess around with it when i  get back to work again monday.

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2019, 12:06:49 pm »
I've almost pulled the trigger on this yoke a couple different times. I have a stand up star wars with the original yoke and as dumb as it sounds, I want a spare because the hunt for parts for this cabinet is brutal.

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2019, 03:56:32 pm »
@Shredder1: the first force-feedback machine I remember is Outrun ('86). Star Wars Arcade used a flight stick.


I've almost pulled the trigger on this yoke a couple different times. I have a stand up star wars with the original yoke and as dumb as it sounds, I want a spare because the hunt for parts for this cabinet is brutal.

Do it if you think you'll need it.


@pixel: newspapers and cardboard. Works for the bums.

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2019, 01:59:20 am »
I'm happy to announce that in celebration of May the 4th, we are putting our Alan-1 Star Wars Yokes on sale for this weekend only (Saturday, May 4th - Sunday, May 5th)!

$399

$100 off our buy direct price of $499.

If you've been waiting to purchase one, now's a perfect time.  Thanks for supporting us.
Long live Atari Star Wars.

https://alan-1.com/product/alan-1-star-wars-flight-yoke/

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2019, 08:02:40 pm »
i received my yoke a few days ago.  i already had the usb adapter i bought earlier.  i also was using a yoke i've had for 15 years but only a few years ago refurbished it and started using it.  most recently, i was using a ram controls usb adapter, which imo, was junk.  i also had at one time a ram yoke, but that thing was ridiculously too tight.  so, i sold it with next to no use.  i was pretty concerned the alan-1 yoke could be too tight as well, but as soon as i unboxed it, those fears were gone.

my old yoke, with PEC 1845 pots, worked great.  but the new alan-1 yoke, with PEC 1812 pots, is awesome.  i feel only my game play skill is holding me back.  where as before, i could score much higher on a real dedicated cab.  this is the combo i have been looking for for years.  now imo, i feel it's worth making a dedicated star wars cab using mame. 

 

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2019, 08:17:55 pm »
Too tight......what does that mean?

Mike A

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2019, 08:32:24 pm »
The opposite of loose? :dunno

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2019, 08:50:33 pm »
Too tight......what does that mean?

it was hard to move.  like the spring tension was way too high.

Mr. Peabody

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2019, 06:12:25 pm »
Too tight......what does that mean?

it was hard to move.  like the spring tension was way too high.

Ahhhh. That may have been adjustable.


The opposite of loose? :dunno

Everybody cut - FOOTLOOSE.....FOOTLOOSE......

coasterlvr

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Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2019, 07:12:46 pm »
Too tight......what does that mean?

it was hard to move.  like the spring tension was way too high.

Ahhhh. That may have been adjustable.


The opposite of loose? :dunno

Everybody cut - FOOTLOOSE.....FOOTLOOSE......

really?  how do you adjust the spring tension on those?  i've taken my old one apart and reassembled and see no way to do that.  not that it really matters now, but i'm curious if there's a way.   but also, those squarish like handles were terrible.