The NEW Build Your Own Arcade Controls

Main => Main Forum => Topic started by: 1500points on October 24, 2017, 09:30:00 pm

Title: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: 1500points on October 24, 2017, 09:30:00 pm
Just saw this- new reproductions in final testing.  Says they are doing a run of 500.   

Hopefully the copied link gets there properly...


New Star Wars Yoke with Aluminum gears (Alan-1)

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Earcade-museum%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D415071&share_tid=415071&share_fid=19164&share_type=thttps://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Earcade-museum%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D415071&share_tid=415071&share_fid=19164&share_type=t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: jdbailey1206 on October 25, 2017, 06:53:42 am
The fact that no one has mentioned a price is not surprising.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: 1500points on October 25, 2017, 08:54:51 am
it will be ridiculously high for a toy since it involves engineering.

I sold a restored yoke with the control panel plate, RamControls USB interface, and the plastic shroud on ebay a year or two ago.  It sold for $550 if I recall correctly.

Then you'll need an Ultimarc A-pac to build the interface.

And at the end of the day the MAME emulation of Star Wars lacks the magic of a real machine due to the vector to raster process introducing timing issues into the gameplay.    But at least it is an option, that otherwise wouldn't exist beyond a $2500 game that is difficult to keep working.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: wp34 on October 25, 2017, 09:35:10 am
I would love to build a cabaret like Le Chuck's at some point and initially was excited to read through that posting. 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,152903.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,152903.0.html)

I agree with both of your comments on pricing though.  It looks so well engineered it will likely be beyond my budget.  It is however exciting to see someone working on a major product like this.


Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: 1500points on October 25, 2017, 10:30:00 am
hadn't seen that project yet. extremely well executed.  That should have been a real release back in the arcade era.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Vidiot on October 25, 2017, 11:46:18 am
I would love to build a cabaret like Le Chuck's at some point and initially was excited to read through that posting. 

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,152903.0.html (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,152903.0.html)

I agree with both of your comments on pricing though.  It looks so well engineered it will likely be beyond my budget.  It is however exciting to see someone working on a major product like this.

I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully I can build a Star Wars cabaret someday like LeChuck's. I got on the list for one. Hope they aren't too expensive.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: pbj on October 25, 2017, 12:21:06 pm
Lol.  This won't end well.

Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: 1500points on October 25, 2017, 12:29:43 pm
in the other thread he specifically says he isn't taking pre-orders due to what happened with ram controls.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: pbj on October 25, 2017, 02:14:11 pm
Oh yes, of course.  THIS time they'll warn you before they blow their load.  They promise.

 :lol
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: opt2not on October 25, 2017, 03:28:01 pm
it will be ridiculously high for a toy since it involves engineering.

I sold a restored yoke with the control panel plate, RamControls USB interface, and the plastic shroud on ebay a year or two ago.  It sold for $550 if I recall correctly.

Then you'll need an Ultimarc A-pac to build the interface.

And at the end of the day the MAME emulation of Star Wars lacks the magic of a real machine due to the vector to raster process introducing timing issues into the gameplay.    But at least it is an option, that otherwise wouldn't exist beyond a $2500 game that is difficult to keep working.
And now with Fred Konopaska's Raster-to-Vector CRT conversion kit, there is another option that is cheaper than an original machine.   
Granted his kit is a bit expensive, (and takes a bunch of work to install) last I heard it was $350? It's really too bad the KLOV cunts ran him off.  I've been following his work on his facebook group page and I gotta say it looks too good to be true, but the results look amazing.  I believe it can be installed on any consumer CRT, at any size.  Imagine a 39" Vector monitor!  :o
Say this yoke will be $350-500, buy a cheap CRT and Fred's conversion kit for around $400, build a cabinet, grab a old PC, install VectorMAME; You're definitely looking under $2500 for a multi-vector cabinet with a proper yoke and monitor to relive the glory.

Times are interesting on the vector front these days.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on October 26, 2017, 03:08:06 am
Just saw this- new reproductions in final testing.  Says they are doing a run of 500.   

Hopefully the copied link gets there properly...


New Star Wars Yoke with Aluminum gears (Alan-1)

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Earcade-museum%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D415071&share_tid=415071&share_fid=19164&share_type=thttps://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Earcade-museum%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D415071&share_tid=415071&share_fid=19164&share_type=t (https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Earcade-museum%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D415071&share_tid=415071&share_fid=19164&share_type=thttps://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums%2Earcade-museum%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D415071&share_tid=415071&share_fid=19164&share_type=t)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for linking to my KLOV post / star wars yoke Alan-1 announcement.  I know I'm new over here, but years ago I found a lot of inspiration lurking here.  I've purchased a few i-pac's in my day! 

Most of my time is now spent working on teeth, running Flynn's Retrocade in Roy, Utah, and running a little company that does dental billing for folks.  I even created a pinball2000 virtual pinball back in 2014.  Although I've spent the last few years collecting restored arcade cabinets, rather than building MAME cabinets, the work done by this community is important to me.

With that being said, part of what we are creating is a plug and play yoke to USB adapter.  I've attached pictures of it.  It has LEDs that help trouble shoot if buttons are working, etc.  We included a dip-switch to switch between the device being recognized as a mouse or a gamepad.  But I think we're going to dump that feature and keep it only as a gamepad.  In our MAME testing, it seems to work better that way. 

We're setting the price at $500 for the yokes and $85 for the adapter.  We will have a run of 500 3 months after we're finished testing it in our arcade.  We've found a flaw in the atari designed plastic thumb buttons, so we want to have them retooled as black stainless steel instead.  The aluminum gears are working great!  So much better than the plastic / nylon originals--right?

If you are in Utah, come visit Flynn's Retrocade (www.flynnsretrocade.com (http://www.flynnsretrocade.com)) to test the yoke yourself on our star wars cockpit.  I'd love to know what you think and if you have any ideas on how to improve it!
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: opt2not on October 26, 2017, 02:42:01 pm
$500 + $85! That definitely doesn't seem like a community price.

pbj is going to have to give a lot of blood and pee samples to afford this one.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Le Chuck on October 26, 2017, 02:46:38 pm
Considering a complete ROTJ just sold on here for $250
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on October 26, 2017, 03:33:47 pm
Considering a complete ROTJ just sold on here for $250

I've seen a lot of used parted-out of machines Atari star wars yokes go for 650 this year on eBay.  Most are going for around 500.  Who knows what kind of condition they are in.  We've been wanting to do this for a long time, but the economics didn't work until now.

We wish I could sell it for less.  The yokes cost a lot to make. Our first factory we were going to use in California wanted $1500 a yoke to manufacture it.   We're getting them for a lot less now, but they are still very expensive to build with or without aluminum gears with a minimum order of 500 paid for in advance by us.  We are NOT collecting pre-order cash to fund it.  We'll never do that.  But it is important that we break even over time so we can offer more high quality products like this in the future. 


Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: jdbailey1206 on October 26, 2017, 05:11:09 pm
$500 + $85! That definitely doesn't seem like a community price.

pbj is going to have to give a lot of blood and pee samples to afford this one.

No worries.   PBJ is curing feline aids so he should be able to afford one for everyone here with the revenue he pulls in.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: paigeoliver on October 26, 2017, 07:07:32 pm
I was selling hydra yokes 12 years ago for $250-$300 and they would sell almost immediately, and those aren't even proper star wars.

Considering a complete ROTJ just sold on here for $250

I've seen a lot of used parted-out of machines Atari star wars yokes go for 650 this year on eBay.  Most are going for around 500.  Who knows what kind of condition they are in.  We've been wanting to do this for a long time, but the economics didn't work until now.

We wish I could sell it for less.  The yokes cost a lot to make. Our first factory we were going to use in California wanted $1500 a yoke to manufacture it.   We're getting them for a lot less now, but they are still very expensive to build with or without aluminum gears with a minimum order of 500 paid for in advance by us.  We are NOT collecting pre-order cash to fund it.  We'll never do that.  But it is important that we break even over time so we can offer more high quality products like this in the future.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on July 04, 2018, 01:57:06 pm
Hi guys.

Happy to report that we've made a lot of progress on our star wars flight yoke repro and USB interface.  We're calling it the Alan-1 Flight Yoke and USB adapter.  The yoke is an improved version of the original Atari design with aluminum gears (small and large) and aluminum thumb buttons (to keep them from breaking so easily).  Our team in the factory has said that they should be ready for final assembly in a few weeks.  I'm not sure when we will take delivery, but I thought posting this update would be newsworthy.

Our USB yoke adapter testing has helped us improve the code and make the response of the curser in Star Wars much more like the arcade--a real improvement over the RC version.  We have LED's the light up on the chip with each button press (there are 4 that register differently) as well as the XY movements to help with troubling shooting.  We'll be compiling a manual with detailed MAME settings instructions to get the best results.  Some images the recommended MAME settings for the adapter & other yoke images are found here https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-r8_ZdzZ_wpbrvQTK8TPzmhE6UDffRu5?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-r8_ZdzZ_wpbrvQTK8TPzmhE6UDffRu5?usp=sharing)

Read more about updates and progress by following the link below

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=415071 (https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=415071)

Thanks for your patience and interest.  Long live Atari!
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: paigeoliver on July 05, 2018, 10:19:11 pm
As long as I was able to flip hobby money into it and not pay cash I would have no problem with that price.

$500 + $85! That definitely doesn't seem like a community price.

pbj is going to have to give a lot of blood and pee samples to afford this one.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: tony.silveira on July 17, 2018, 11:01:33 pm
is there a list to sign up for one of these?
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: jdbailey1206 on July 18, 2018, 09:17:57 am
is there a list to sign up for one of these?

Go here (https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=415071) and read on.  This is where most people are claiming both the controller and board.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on November 28, 2018, 08:33:37 am
The yokes have arrive and are for sale!

please visit www.alan-1.com (http://www.alan-1.com) if you would like to purchase.
The USB adapters aren't finished yet, but should be ready to go over the next eight weeks.

Thank you for your patience.  We took about 10 months to test these in arcade environments.  We discovered three issues during that time and incorporated fixes for these issues into the final design.  The result--these star wars yokes are rock solid and better than the original design with aluminum gears and aluminum thumb buttons.  It feels as smooth as butter.

Long live Atari!

Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Jimbo on November 28, 2018, 08:51:39 am
It looks great - but that is out of my price range.  Good luck though!
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mike A on November 28, 2018, 08:57:45 am
Imagine that. Somebody managed to develop and bring a product to market without begging for pre-sales, deposits, or Kickstarter "investments".

Kudos to you.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on November 28, 2018, 10:25:10 pm
Thanks Mike!

We'll never ask for prepayments.... EVER.

Hopefully our USB adapter chips will be ready soon.
We're working on new WG6100 deflection boards with modern designs (sss www.alan-1.com (http://www.alan-1.com) dev blog).  We've also got a prototype atari paddle with a usb connection to get authentic paddle games play on a raspberry pi / retrocade setup. 

What other products would you like to see developed?
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: ark_ader on November 28, 2018, 10:54:35 pm
Imagine that. Somebody managed to develop and bring a product to market without begging for pre-sales, deposits, or Kickstarter "investments".

Kudos to you.
Are these licensed products?

I seem to remember Atari holds the rights to them.  Unless you are calling them a different name.  ::)
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: paigeoliver on November 28, 2018, 11:14:12 pm
Atari's patents would have long lapsed on these.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: ark_ader on November 29, 2018, 07:26:52 am
Atari's patents would have long lapsed on these.

Lets call and find out.  ;D
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: nitrogen_widget on November 29, 2018, 10:41:23 am
Atari's patents would have long lapsed on these.

Lets call and find out.  ;D

We can call the AtariBox team.
They aren't doing anything right now.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: pixel on November 29, 2018, 02:21:05 pm
Atari today,  is nothing but a Name.  Its not even close to being the same Company as it once was.
Its unlikely that any of the same employees / leaders,  are part of any of the modern Atari brand name(s).

 Not sure about Patents.. but some of them tend to be registered by the actual inventors / designers.  Not by "Atari".

 But of course... it makes sense that Jealous Snowflake ARK,  would want to rain on everyone's Parade.
To people with NPD... they enjoy making other people suffer... and they have no problem blowing up Businesses,
and destroying peoples lives,  to that end.


 Personally... I think the product looks good... and Id love to be able to justify it... but no longer can.

 One might consider the possibility of making  DIY  "Kits",  that users can assemble and wire themselves... for a reduced price.

 Also, the number of units is pretty low... which drove up the costs,  and makes it harder for those whom wish to get hold of
them (at a later time when money Might be freed up) ... even harder.

 Asking for more product ideas sound cool... but if the SW yoke is in total,  about $600  (I think Atari got them in bulk for less than 200$)..
then what will the  simple-pot  Paddles cost?  >_<

 You seem proud that you didnt have to ask for Kickstarter money... and thats fine,  if you feel that way... but Had you
actually kickstarted it... you could have probably got the costs Far Lower... and satisfied far more people in the process.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mr. Peabody on November 29, 2018, 03:51:58 pm
Imagine that. Somebody managed to develop and bring a product to market without begging for pre-sales, deposits, or Kickstarter "investments".

Kudos to you.

When you have your own starter capital.......



Had you actually kickstarted it... you could have probably got the costs Far Lower... and satisfied far more people in the process.


I hadn't thought of this, though the issue with someone else's money in any format is you have to answer to them, etc. Relax a bit. The project turned out. A next run can be done a different way if they desire.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: ark_ader on November 30, 2018, 07:54:43 am
Atari today,  is nothing but a Name.  Its not even close to being the same Company as it once was.
Its unlikely that any of the same employees / leaders,  are part of any of the modern Atari brand name(s).

 Not sure about Patents.. but some of them tend to be registered by the actual inventors / designers.  Not by "Atari".

 But of course... it makes sense that Jealous Snowflake ARK,  would want to rain on everyone's Parade.
To people with NPD... they enjoy making other people suffer... and they have no problem blowing up Businesses,
and destroying peoples lives,  to that end.


 Personally... I think the product looks good... and Id love to be able to justify it... but no longer can.

 One might consider the possibility of making  DIY  "Kits",  that users can assemble and wire themselves... for a reduced price.

 Also, the number of units is pretty low... which drove up the costs,  and makes it harder for those whom wish to get hold of
them (at a later time when money Might be freed up) ... even harder.

 Asking for more product ideas sound cool... but if the SW yoke is in total,  about $600  (I think Atari got them in bulk for less than 200$)..
then what will the  simple-pot  Paddles cost?  >_<

 You seem proud that you didnt have to ask for Kickstarter money... and thats fine,  if you feel that way... but Had you
actually kickstarted it... you could have probably got the costs Far Lower... and satisfied far more people in the process.

If memory serves - Atari used some designs of the military controls that was installed in tanks.  I would be in favor of making Star wars yoke control kits, and $600 isn't very expensive if you had to restore an aging classic, but this isn't a new design and making replicas can get you into hot water.  I would prefer Atari making $600 to be honest.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: yotsuya on November 30, 2018, 08:08:57 am
That’s all well and good, but a) “Atari” as it was doesn’t exist anymore and b) even if it did, this probably isn’t a project they would tackle. They’d probably be making gambling machines like Midway.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on November 30, 2018, 08:54:43 am
Let me answer a few questions.  I really hope to help keep arcades and the emulation community thriving.  This is a hobby for me and not a real business.  I've loved Atari and classic gaming long before it was ever considered "classic".  I'm not proud about not collecting prepayments, but I didn't want to do what the folks at Ram controls did and take prepayments and not be able to deliver.   

I wish we could have sold these for a lower price.  Someone on this thread said that Atari manufactured these in 1983 for $200.  I'm not sure where that stat came from but assuming that its true, because of inflation, $200 in 1983 = $505 in today's' dollars--according to these websites:

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983 (https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983)
https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983 (https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983)
http://www.in2013dollars.com/1983-dollars-in-2018?amount=200 (http://www.in2013dollars.com/1983-dollars-in-2018?amount=200)

That actually makes me feel pretty good about the value we are delivering.  These controllers are so complex--it just costs a lot to build them in 1983 and in 2018.

I like your idea of selling kits that you could put together yourself.  I'll investigate that so we could pass those savings onto hobbyist.

Over on KLOV, people are reproducing old game parts all the time to help keep these games running.  Patents expire after 20 years. These yokes are no longer covered under patents, so they are perfectly legal to sell.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=How-Long-Does-Patent-Trademark-or-Copyright-Protection-Last (https://www.export.gov/article?id=How-Long-Does-Patent-Trademark-or-Copyright-Protection-Last)

Lastly, we are calling them Alan-1 Flight Yokes--to avoid any licensing concerns.

The Atari Paddles are so much simpler to reproduce.  I don't have any quotes yet, but I'm certain our USB version would be inexpensive.  I'm building it really for me, so I can play Kaboom! and warlords in style.

Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: leapinlew on November 30, 2018, 04:17:54 pm
I would like to purchase one of these, but I'm waiting for the USB controller so I can purchase it as a bundle. Any ideas when both will be available?

I can make myself available to do some beta testing. :)
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on November 30, 2018, 08:03:07 pm
I would like to purchase one of these, but I'm waiting for the USB controller so I can purchase it as a bundle. Any ideas when both will be available?

I can make myself available to do some beta testing. :)

Thanks for your friendly reply leapinlew.  We are currently testing these and should have many produced over the next 6 weeks.  The firmware is as good as we can get it for now. If a newer version is released, users will be able to flash the chip and update the firmware.

For sure the USB flight yoke adapter will be released by march 1, 2019.  I expect it to be sooner, but I don't want to over promise.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: nitrogen_widget on November 30, 2018, 09:06:37 pm
That’s all well and good, but a) “Atari” as it was doesn’t exist anymore and b) even if it did, this probably isn’t a project they would tackle. They’d probably be making gambling machines like Midway.

Or crowd funded consoles with an emulator and an amd APU?
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mr. Peabody on December 02, 2018, 03:55:44 pm
The only issue with the USB controller is no extra inputs. Kind of surprised me.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: yotsuya on December 02, 2018, 05:29:45 pm
The only issue with the USB controller is no extra inputs. Kind of surprised me.
Why? It’s not for dirty 6000 Gamez MAMErs.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mr. Peabody on December 05, 2018, 02:40:22 pm
The only issue with the USB controller is no extra inputs. Kind of surprised me.
Why? It’s not for dirty 6000 Gamez MAMErs.

He mentioned MAME here or at klov. A dedicated yoke cabinet would need at least one input to exit games.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on December 05, 2018, 08:04:00 pm
Excellent idea!
Not sure why we didn't think of that!

We should include a lot of iPAC features into version 2.0 to eliminate the need for a yoke adapter and an IPAC.
How many buttons should we consider including?  Just 1 for exit?  or perhaps exit, player 1, player 2, coin drop left, coin drop right?

Love some brainstorming here.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: leapinlew on December 05, 2018, 10:17:18 pm
My current Star Wars cabinet has an exit game, and coin up. For me, it's not a huge deal to have a zero delay encoder to handle those functions.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: PL1 on December 05, 2018, 10:52:30 pm
Love some brainstorming here.
1. I know the primary purpose of this encoder is as a yoke adapter, but could it also support other controls?
- 270 degree wheel + pedals
- Lunar Lander thruster
- T-Mek twin triggersticks

2. The SW Molex is a common layout, but there are other yoke pinouts so it might be a good idea to also have screw terminal connections in parallel with the Molex connector.

SW pinout
(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=134006.0;attach=295045;image)

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=147492.0;attach=336943;image)

3. How many input ports are available?  Makes no sense to leave them unused.
- How many A/D converter ports for potentiometers?
  -- Bonus points for being able to enable/disable ports and select which axis is assigned to the port.
  -- Points deducted for an always-on Z-axis port that causes constant scrolling if it isn't connected and centered.   :banghead:
- How many digital-only ports for buttons?

4. Will this be only an analog gamepad firmware (pots + gamepad buttons) or can it be a hybrid/composite gamepad + keyboard HID firmware so users don't need an AHK script to convert gamepad button presses into keystrokes like ESC. (exit)
- Usually not a problem in MAME, but some other emulators and standalone games are less flexible.

5. Other possible firmware features:
  - LED controller firmware for blinking volcano buttons or Lunar Lander Mission control panel?
  - Mouse firmware for spinner/trackall/360 degree wheel?


Scott
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: pixel on December 06, 2018, 11:53:40 am
Let me answer a few questions.  I really hope to help keep arcades and the emulation community thriving.  This is a hobby for me and not a real business.  I've loved Atari and classic gaming long before it was ever considered "classic".  I'm not proud about not collecting prepayments, but I didn't want to do what the folks at Ram controls did and take prepayments and not be able to deliver.   

I wish we could have sold these for a lower price.  Someone on this thread said that Atari manufactured these in 1983 for $200.  I'm not sure where that stat came from but assuming that its true, because of inflation, $200 in 1983 = $505 in today's' dollars--according to these websites:

https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983 (https://www.dollartimes.com/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983)
https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983 (https://www.saving.org/inflation/inflation.php?amount=200&year=1983)
http://www.in2013dollars.com/1983-dollars-in-2018?amount=200 (http://www.in2013dollars.com/1983-dollars-in-2018?amount=200)

That actually makes me feel pretty good about the value we are delivering.  These controllers are so complex--it just costs a lot to build them in 1983 and in 2018.

I like your idea of selling kits that you could put together yourself.  I'll investigate that so we could pass those savings onto hobbyist.

Over on KLOV, people are reproducing old game parts all the time to help keep these games running.  Patents expire after 20 years. These yokes are no longer covered under patents, so they are perfectly legal to sell.

https://www.export.gov/article?id=How-Long-Does-Patent-Trademark-or-Copyright-Protection-Last (https://www.export.gov/article?id=How-Long-Does-Patent-Trademark-or-Copyright-Protection-Last)

Lastly, we are calling them Alan-1 Flight Yokes--to avoid any licensing concerns.

The Atari Paddles are so much simpler to reproduce.  I don't have any quotes yet, but I'm certain our USB version would be inexpensive.  I'm building it really for me, so I can play Kaboom! and warlords in style.

 Well, I was not trying to put you down,  just disappointed that it seems you are doing it for your own Arcade + a small few that are able to
scramble with big gobs of free-cash... to get their limited parts reproductions in... rather than an Affordable set of parts / controls,  for the masses of
classic fans + collectors.   (I too grew up in the height of the classic 80s Arcade era... and got to play almost every classic arcade machine, that was worth playing)

   The reality is that Scam Controls  (and many other scam-starters)  have abused and damaged the trust of others... so its good to see someone who
was genuine about their business practices.  Still... once these ship, and you have proven your reputation... it would be good to see a different approach.


 As for the so called  "Inflation"  calculators... thats all  BS.   The cost of labor and parts in that time period was far lower.  Even shipping costs were probably
lower to boot.   Taxes were lower.  Cost of living,  and cost of business was lower  (space, utilities, taxes, licenses... ) .. Hell... the actual
Value of the US Dollar, was also far higher too.

 I know it may be apples to oranges... but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600.   The thing has FAR more parts,
and probably enough raw steel to make 100 yokes.   And honestly... If one looks around long enough,  one may be able to pick up a full Starwars Arcade machine
for about  $800 to $1200..  which is not much more than you are asking for a single controller assembly.   The only bad parts on them tend to be potentially cracked
gears... or a broken trigger button.  (well, if we count the full machine... then add the potential for the failing Vector monitors  >_< )


 As for the  Paddles...  I have an idea,  that maybe you could help put into reality...

 Paddles are nice for Paddle games... but what about making them so that they can also support 360 degree driving wheel games too?  (IE: Supersprint)

 - With a simple locking and unlocking mechanism... one could physically limit travel for paddle use  vs  full rotation use.

 - Using a high resolution optical solution,  one could probably convert the values to be as smoothly accurate, as a pot... and high enough for
a spinner game such as the Geared-Spinner of Arkanoid.. to be at 100% accurate arcade resolution.

 - If the spinner is made similar to the Discs of Tron mechanism... it could be used to push and pull,  triggering leaf-switches, for Discs of Tron and other uses.

 - On an even more Epic level... one could install a brushless? direct-drive motor-driven force feedback,  to work with games like Hard/Race Drivin.

 Namco made a similar Force-Feedback spinner mechanism called the Jog-Con, for the Playstation 1.  However,  Namco used a geared motor drive.. and that
caused too much friction to be used for free-spinning 360 degree driving games... and even then, still was a bit much drag + noise, 
for normal driving game use. 

 Where as a direct-shaft-drive-mechanism similar to the Cockpit version of Race Drivin,  which used the actual motor shaft as a direct steering wheel mount,
would be the best solution.    This would allow the user to easily enable or disable the feedback,  and even could possible use the feedback itself as
an automatic physical limitation system... for games like Pong.   Obviously, the motor will have to be quite strong + high power,  to be effective for this use.

 - Id also put in both digital and analog buttons on the controller.  The finger buttons would best be actual Leaf-switches, for best feel + for best rapidfire
without fatigue.  Then one of them would be a sliding analog trigger for gas.  Finally, one could be a Pressure-Sensor based button.. for high-resolution Brake-Pedal
use in Hard Drivin,  and other Racing Sim games.

 Not only could a controller like this be great for personal and or travel use... but it could be used in bartops, and mame machines.. with a simple shell removal
and re-mount.  (which could be part of the design,  that included a different mount + shaft extender)

 - Going all out... one could add an LED lighting option... to make a ring of multi-colored lighting effects.

 - I would add a small port on the device for the paddles to be able to hook up to actual pedal sets,  should the Op want to use foot pedals instead
of the in-hand analog controls.

 - Id also suggest possibly linking each paddle to each other, via a different onboard port.    That would make for less cables,
and no need for a separate high powered USB hub.  (Force feeback in itself may require a nice beefy power supply / transformer)

Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mike A on December 06, 2018, 12:00:55 pm
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.

Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: pixel on December 08, 2018, 07:31:11 pm
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.



 It was in storage.

 Ended up losing a lot of stuff in the process... but was able to save some things.

 I realize that some people are Consistent Liars and are also constantly negative + Toxic ... and they Love to REFLECT their own toxic traits into other people...
but you are wrong.  Wrong in every way.  (especially on the Inside)


 Btw - I met one guy from this site,  when I had to sell my Spy Hunter.  I was keeping it at my friends art studio.
He was kind enough to let me crash in his studio for a short time,  (and to finish restoring it there)  and I was also
lucky that said BYOAC'er bought my machine.. as I did not have enough money to pay my car insurance.

 I forget his user/name.  I believe he was one that has several machines built right into his walls,  all in a row.
He was going to just use the controls to make another mame setup.. but after playing it. decided to keep it as is.

 It was not long after that.  It was noticed by others in the building, that I was at the studio too long.. as you are
not supposed to "live" there...

 So... I was sleeping in my minivan in the middle of the winter, in the parking lot.

 I was wearing like 3 layers of clothing, several layers of blankets, and still was freezing.  I also wore my Sennheiser
headphones as earmuffs.  They lasted about 13 years of prior abuse, without damage,  which included me falling asleep
with them on many times... but the brutal cold caused the flexible plastic to become brittle,  and easily crack under stresses
that it normally would have been fine with.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: ark_ader on December 09, 2018, 12:16:48 am
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.



 It was in storage.

 Ended up losing a lot of stuff in the process... but was able to save some things.

 I realize that some people are Consistent Liars and are also constantly negative + Toxic ... and they Love to REFLECT their own toxic traits into other people...
but you are wrong.  Wrong in every way.  (especially on the Inside)


 Btw - I met one guy from this site,  when I had to sell my Spy Hunter.  I was keeping it at my friends art studio.
He was kind enough to let me crash in his studio for a short time,  (and to finish restoring it there)  and I was also
lucky that said BYOAC'er bought my machine.. as I did not have enough money to pay my car insurance.

 I forget his user/name.  I believe he was one that has several machines built right into his walls,  all in a row.
He was going to just use the controls to make another mame setup.. but after playing it. decided to keep it as is.

 It was not long after that.  It was noticed by others in the building, that I was at the studio too long.. as you are
not supposed to "live" there...

 So... I was sleeping in my minivan in the middle of the winter, in the parking lot.

 I was wearing like 3 layers of clothing, several layers of blankets, and still was freezing.  I also wore my Sennheiser
headphones as earmuffs.  They lasted about 13 years of prior abuse, without damage,  which included me falling asleep
with them on many times... but the brutal cold caused the flexible plastic to become brittle,  and easily crack under stresses
that it normally would have been fine with.

Sounds like you didn't insulate your minivan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooor6txye0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooor6txye0)
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mr. Peabody on December 09, 2018, 04:47:57 pm
While I commend PL1's thoughtfulness, that is getting involved. I think at least five inputs, and recommend at least ten for good measure.



@pixel: I recommend you start a dedicated pixel thread in EE, to accommodate your perambulations.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: pixel on December 19, 2018, 12:59:19 am
Quote
but I bought a 8x20 metal cutting lathe made in China... for I believe about $600

You sure can cram a lot of expensive gear into the minivan that you live in.



 It was in storage.

 Ended up losing a lot of stuff in the process... but was able to save some things.

 I realize that some people are Consistent Liars and are also constantly negative + Toxic ... and they Love to REFLECT their own toxic traits into other people...
but you are wrong.  Wrong in every way.  (especially on the Inside)


 Btw - I met one guy from this site,  when I had to sell my Spy Hunter.  I was keeping it at my friends art studio.
He was kind enough to let me crash in his studio for a short time,  (and to finish restoring it there)  and I was also
lucky that said BYOAC'er bought my machine.. as I did not have enough money to pay my car insurance.

 I forget his user/name.  I believe he was one that has several machines built right into his walls,  all in a row.
He was going to just use the controls to make another mame setup.. but after playing it. decided to keep it as is.

 It was not long after that.  It was noticed by others in the building, that I was at the studio too long.. as you are
not supposed to "live" there...

 So... I was sleeping in my minivan in the middle of the winter, in the parking lot.

 I was wearing like 3 layers of clothing, several layers of blankets, and still was freezing.  I also wore my Sennheiser
headphones as earmuffs.  They lasted about 13 years of prior abuse, without damage,  which included me falling asleep
with them on many times... but the brutal cold caused the flexible plastic to become brittle,  and easily crack under stresses
that it normally would have been fine with.

Sounds like you didn't insulate your minivan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooor6txye0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dooor6txye0)


 Its easy to do such a project when you have:

  a)  Money to spare  (Insulation foam is NOT cheap! )
  b)  Time and a 'friendly' environment

 When you have just scraped enough money to pay you car insurance...  and what little left is for food + gas...
then considering foam insulation purchase... is not on the menu.

 I had just enough time,  to scrounge some cardboard,  to make an internal 'box',  to conceal me inside of it.
You see... Police and or citizens spotting you sleeping in your car/van... can be a problem.  Covering all of the
windows, just draws Police attention.   I found this out the hard way,  the first time that this happened to me.

 Also... if you think that foam is going to do much to keep you warm in single digit temperature... you are
mistaken.   Thats like thinking a foam cup will keep room temperature coffee 'warm' for 6hrs,  when put into the freezer.

 Thermal foam in these temps,  would have to be like  +8 inches thick... to even have a mild effect.

 I did use an Emergency  "Space-Blanket"  ... which did help a lot, to reflect Infrared body heat from escaping me.
Even so... It had to be inside of my clothing layers, to do much,  at those temps.  If its like 50 degrees (f) ... then
you would notice a heated feeling from such a blanket,  even if its around clothing.  But at temps below 40... the
body heat is taken away fast... to the point that you do not feel much of an effect at all... unless its right against the
skin... and is well insulated... with more clothing layers to help keep the heat from dissipating.

 I did also have a 1.5" thick gym mat, that I found dirt cheap, at the thrift shop,  that I was using for the floor covering.
It was not very soft.. and it did still get ice cold... but it was still much better than laying directly on the van flooring.

 I believe I ran the vans engine for like 15 min,  and blasted the heat until it was like +90 degrees inside... before shutting
it off... and quickly scrambling into the rear 'hut'.  The heat would not last that long.. but it was enough to help get
you to sleep easier.   I had no other means of heat... and I really did not want to run the engine for long, if I could help it.

 I was fortunate,  as I got a job before the last sub $200 I had on me,  ran out.

 Even then... I was still not out of the woods.  Id spend most of the night at work (after hours)... and would get a few hrs
sleep in the van.   I didnt make enough for an apt., until about a year in, after a raise.  Its been a real rough time for me.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Shredder1 on March 29, 2019, 01:56:13 pm
OK, so I finally splurged last month.

Got the Yoke Super fast.   the USB control board took a bit longer, but it FINALLY got here today, so I was finally able to test it out :).

It really DOES work right out of the box. at least on windows ten .  you have no idea how happy I am to finally be able to play star wars arcade and ROTJ the way it was meant to be played.  the last working arcade game that was in the wild out here that I know of is now at the bottom of the ocean thanks to superstorm sandy and probably on it's way to spain  by now across the currents.  I knew I should have offered to buy that machine the last time I saw it on repair.

anyway,   Two questions.
1)How can I calibrate it so it moves left/right/up down properly?   a little fiddling around with the mapping only gets it to go upper left and upper right so far.

And 2)  If I'm just going to use this on a pc at current (dream build would be a full arcade machine one day)......how can I mount this sucker so I don't damage it or the control board?  is there a 3D printable device I can install it in?
thanks
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: PL1 on March 29, 2019, 03:46:05 pm
1)How can I calibrate it so it moves left/right/up down properly?   a little fiddling around with the mapping only gets it to go upper left and upper right so far.
1. Check/calibrate the encoder in Windows.
- Find the encoder icon under Control Panel -- Device and Printers.
- Right-click on icon -- Game controller settings.
- Left-click on "Properties" button.
- Does moving the yoke through the full range of X-axis and Y-axis motion cause the crosshairs to move accordingly across the entire white box?
-- If yes,  there's no need to calibrate.
-- If no, go to "Settings" tab and Left-click on "Calibrate" button.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=147492.0;attach=338864;image)

2. In the MAME "Input (this game)" menu, set the "Inc" and "Dec" inputs to "none".

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=152725.0;attach=354295;image)

3. In the "Analog Controls" menu, set autocenter to 0 and adjust sensitivity as desired.

(http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=152725.0;attach=354297;image)

4. After Star Wars boots up, move the yoke in the largest possible rectangle several times -- the game will automatically calibrate based on the greatest range of values returned by the pots.   ;D

2)  If I'm just going to use this on a pc at current (dream build would be a full arcade machine one day)......how can I mount this sucker so I don't damage it or the control board?  is there a 3D printable device I can install it in?
thanks
I don't know if anyone has designed a 3d printed mount sturdy enough to handle the impact against the left/right stops and large enough to not tip over during vigorous gameplay.   :dunno

You might want to consider building a housing like this (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,123347.msg1310086.html#msg1310086).

Here is a printable PDF mounting template (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=121357.0;attach=187211) for a SW yoke.


Scott
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Zebra on March 29, 2019, 04:27:36 pm
The Yoke is not for me but I love that it exists. I was giving up hope of ever seeing any arcade quality peripherals for the home market.

I hope you make more products. Maybe a fixed gun project next.

On the adapter, do these yokes just use a couple of pots plus some digital buttons? I don't remember the original arcade having force feedback but it was a long time ago...

 I use an Apac to connect a real arcade fixed gun to my mame pc. It uses 2 pots to move. As well as fixed gun games, I have been using it for flight games like afterburner. I'm curious if these yokes are the same under the hood.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: PL1 on March 29, 2019, 06:16:43 pm
On the adapter, do these yokes just use a couple of pots plus some digital buttons? I don't remember the original arcade having force feedback but it was a long time ago...
SW yokes have 2 pots and 4 buttons. (2 triggers + 2 thumb buttons)

There's no active FFB, just spring tension to return the X and Y axes to center.

I use an Apac to connect a real arcade fixed gun to my mame pc. It uses 2 pots to move. As well as fixed gun games, I have been using it for flight games like afterburner. I'm curious if these yokes are the same under the hood.
Positional guns and SW yokes are electrically the same -- pots and buttons.

You can connect them to any analog gamepad encoder such as the plug-and-play yoke encoder shown in OP, A-Pac, U-HID, KADE miniArcade 2.0, Sidewinder hack . . .


Scott
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Shredder1 on March 30, 2019, 10:11:20 am
thanks :)  I'll mess around with it when i  get back to work again monday.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: leapinlew on March 30, 2019, 12:06:49 pm
I've almost pulled the trigger on this yoke a couple different times. I have a stand up star wars with the original yoke and as dumb as it sounds, I want a spare because the hunt for parts for this cabinet is brutal.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mr. Peabody on April 01, 2019, 03:56:32 pm
@Shredder1: the first force-feedback machine I remember is Outrun ('86). Star Wars Arcade used a flight stick.


I've almost pulled the trigger on this yoke a couple different times. I have a stand up star wars with the original yoke and as dumb as it sounds, I want a spare because the hunt for parts for this cabinet is brutal.

Do it if you think you'll need it.


@pixel: newspapers and cardboard. Works for the bums.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: mydentist on May 04, 2019, 01:59:20 am
I'm happy to announce that in celebration of May the 4th, we are putting our Alan-1 Star Wars Yokes on sale for this weekend only (Saturday, May 4th - Sunday, May 5th)!

$399

$100 off our buy direct price of $499.

If you've been waiting to purchase one, now's a perfect time.  Thanks for supporting us.
Long live Atari Star Wars.

https://alan-1.com/product/alan-1-star-wars-flight-yoke/
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: coasterlvr on May 10, 2019, 08:02:40 pm
i received my yoke a few days ago.  i already had the usb adapter i bought earlier.  i also was using a yoke i've had for 15 years but only a few years ago refurbished it and started using it.  most recently, i was using a ram controls usb adapter, which imo, was junk.  i also had at one time a ram yoke, but that thing was ridiculously too tight.  so, i sold it with next to no use.  i was pretty concerned the alan-1 yoke could be too tight as well, but as soon as i unboxed it, those fears were gone.

my old yoke, with PEC 1845 pots, worked great.  but the new alan-1 yoke, with PEC 1812 pots, is awesome.  i feel only my game play skill is holding me back.  where as before, i could score much higher on a real dedicated cab.  this is the combo i have been looking for for years.  now imo, i feel it's worth making a dedicated star wars cab using mame. 

 
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mr. Peabody on May 10, 2019, 08:17:55 pm
Too tight......what does that mean?
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mike A on May 10, 2019, 08:32:24 pm
The opposite of loose? :dunno
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: coasterlvr on May 10, 2019, 08:50:33 pm
Too tight......what does that mean?

it was hard to move.  like the spring tension was way too high.
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: Mr. Peabody on May 11, 2019, 06:12:25 pm
Too tight......what does that mean?

it was hard to move.  like the spring tension was way too high.

Ahhhh. That may have been adjustable.


The opposite of loose? :dunno

Everybody cut - FOOTLOOSE.....FOOTLOOSE......
Title: Re: Repro Star Wars yoke- not ram controls
Post by: coasterlvr on May 11, 2019, 07:12:46 pm
Too tight......what does that mean?

it was hard to move.  like the spring tension was way too high.

Ahhhh. That may have been adjustable.


The opposite of loose? :dunno

Everybody cut - FOOTLOOSE.....FOOTLOOSE......

really?  how do you adjust the spring tension on those?  i've taken my old one apart and reassembled and see no way to do that.  not that it really matters now, but i'm curious if there's a way.   but also, those squarish like handles were terrible.