Build an arcade for little kids - raspeberry pi 2 - questions!

[EMDB]

You have a PC and a Pi but keep asking the same questions over and over. Just install the emulators on both and try them for yourself. You can use a keyboard instead of the buttons / sticks for the time being...

[paigeoliver]

He could just buy a functioning Neo Geo machine for about the same price at whatever he ends up putting together. Building your own is not always the solution. Ultimately it won't end up staying there, eventually somebody from maintenance, safety or legal will take a second look at the thing and it will be gone.

$200-$250 will buy them a real arcade game that will actually stick around.

There is absolutely no way the hospital administrator, legal department, maintenance department and safety/insurance guys actually approved a home-made arcade game loaded with bootleg software in a children's hospital, the potential liability is incredible.

Neo Geo MVS is a bad idea for public use on a crt. If left in the game menu of a multicart, you will obtain burn in as there are no screen savers.

You don't install a multicart. You install 2 or 4 or 6 legitimate games. The kids don't need the selection.

When the end result is something you are going to put out in public unattended for people to play then an actual mame cabinet is never the solution. I know countless guys who own and run arcades and not a darn one of them is running a mame cabinet with a menu out in public (just a few isolated uses of computers replacing priceless boards and laserdisc setups with single game emulation solutions).

Cost. He is doing this for charity and trying to do this on a budget. Buying an mvs, jamma harness, arcade monitor or supergun, and then like a few costly (relative) games will certainly make his pocket more empty.

[consolas]

Once again, just put the sd card in read only mode. Data corruption will no longer be an issue.

Dude, think I'm sold.

I'm trying to get a 20' or 22' monitor and will starting doing the cab. Have to get this done before December!

[consolas]

You have a PC and a Pi but keep asking the same questions over and over. Just install the emulators on both and try them for yourself. You can use a keyboard instead of the buttons / sticks for the time being...

I don't have yet the pc, still trying for the company that is selling them to let me know if they will or not sell them.

[consolas]

He could just buy a functioning Neo Geo machine for about the same price at whatever he ends up putting together. Building your own is not always the solution. Ultimately it won't end up staying there, eventually somebody from maintenance, safety or legal will take a second look at the thing and it will be gone.

$200-$250 will buy them a real arcade game that will actually stick around.

There is absolutely no way the hospital administrator, legal department, maintenance department and safety/insurance guys actually approved a home-made arcade game loaded with bootleg software in a children's hospital, the potential liability is incredible.

Neo Geo MVS is a bad idea for public use on a crt. If left in the game menu of a multicart, you will obtain burn in as there are no screen savers.

You don't install a multicart. You install 2 or 4 or 6 legitimate games. The kids don't need the selection.

When the end result is something you are going to put out in public unattended for people to play then an actual mame cabinet is never the solution. I know countless guys who own and run arcades and not a darn one of them is running a mame cabinet with a menu out in public (just a few isolated uses of computers replacing priceless boards and laserdisc setups with single game emulation solutions).

Cost. He is doing this for charity and trying to do this on a budget. Buying an mvs, jamma harness, arcade monitor or supergun, and then like a few costly (relative) games will certainly make his pocket more empty.

Thanks for the input. Let me just reiterate a few things.

I don't have the possibility of getting an "old" arcade from somewhere - it just isn't that easy to find over here - and NEVER for 300$, even for 500 € in working condition. Maybe in the US (I don't know if you are from the US, bear in mind. I'm assuming that cause you talked in $, just that) it's not only easier but "common" to refurbished real machines.

I found around here a few pinball machines going for the minimum of 1500€ (around 2000$?) - yes, pinball are WAY more expensive, just giving that as an example.

Regarding this:

There is absolutely no way the hospital administrator, legal department, maintenance department and safety/insurance guys actually approved a home-made arcade game loaded with bootleg software in a children's hospital, the potential liability is incredible.

I totally agree and I did what I could to prevent/know how to prevent this from happen - I talked to the services that handle the donations of items that include all kind of games and computers.

I then talked to the person that manages the ward where the machine will be - I showed examples of the machine and told them what games would run. Told them it's a machine that run a lot of games, like the ones found in the arcades but from a computer.

Never, at any moment, doubts of legitimacy risen as I always told the machine would run without any coins. Maybe I should bring this subject up again, just to make sure.

In doubt, I will do it and if they take them from the kids, I'll try to know why and if it comes to that, I'll make another one. I don't want to imagine someone wandering in the ward and just pointing at a machine with kids playing: that has got to go.

For god sake - thanks for bringing that up, though, I really hope it doesn't come to that.

[paigeoliver]

What country are you in?

[DaOld Man]

Just wanted to say I love this project, and your idea of building it for sick kids is highly commendable.

As for the Pi and the SD card, if it is set to read only mode, the high scores for mame will not be saved, is this correct?

[consolas]

Thank you for the encouragement!

Yeah, I'm guessing it won't but it is a small price to pay to make sure the machine doesn't stop working.

[keilmillerjr]

He could just buy a functioning Neo Geo machine for about the same price at whatever he ends up putting together. Building your own is not always the solution. Ultimately it won't end up staying there, eventually somebody from maintenance, safety or legal will take a second look at the thing and it will be gone.

$200-$250 will buy them a real arcade game that will actually stick around.

There is absolutely no way the hospital administrator, legal department, maintenance department and safety/insurance guys actually approved a home-made arcade game loaded with bootleg software in a children's hospital, the potential liability is incredible.

Neo Geo MVS is a bad idea for public use on a crt. If left in the game menu of a multicart, you will obtain burn in as there are no screen savers.

You don't install a multicart. You install 2 or 4 or 6 legitimate games. The kids don't need the selection.

When the end result is something you are going to put out in public unattended for people to play then an actual mame cabinet is never the solution. I know countless guys who own and run arcades and not a darn one of them is running a mame cabinet with a menu out in public (just a few isolated uses of computers replacing priceless boards and laserdisc setups with single game emulation solutions).

Cost. He is doing this for charity and trying to do this on a budget. Buying an mvs, jamma harness, arcade monitor or supergun, and then like a few costly (relative) games will certainly make his pocket more empty.

I fully agree with that 100%, and if I was the original poster, I would just buy a complete machine as you suggested. My advice was only based on trying to go by what the original poster wanted.

Arcade machines here in the usa are weird. One person will want $1200 for a golden tee, and another will want $250 for the same machine in better shape. Pinballs are ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- expensive though. Even broken ones I can not afford.

[consolas]

I will follow the advice of just starting the thing.

On my way to get wood (mdf, 19mm) - will follow the plans I posted here before but instead of 180cm height, maybe Ill decrease it by 20cm or so.

I assume an adult would like a playing height of 120cm so I'm decreasing it by 20. I think all kids can play rather confortable like this.

[consolas]

Hi all!

Just made the first purchase for the cab - got two monitors (will decide which one to use and take that).

Both are 22 and since one has a foot that is easier to disassemble, I guess I will take that.

It was around 20€ so it was an incredible find.

Here it is -

Project officially started! Should I just post in the "Projects" section or does it make sense to keep you guys posted here?

[yotsuya]

Just rename this thread and keep it all here. Delusional will move it anyway.

[consolas]

Just rename this thread and keep it all here. Delusional will move it anyway.

Ok, I will keep posting updates here. Thanks, Yotsuya!

[reptileink]

I will follow the advice of just starting the thing.

On my way to get wood (mdf, 19mm) - will follow the plans I posted here before but instead of 180cm height, maybe Ill decrease it by 20cm or so.

I assume an adult would like a playing height of 120cm so I'm decreasing it by 20. I think all kids can play rather confortable like this.

I thought you mentioned that MDF was a no go?

I've been following this whole thread, and I really admire what you are attempting to do here. I honestly think you should try and scale this down to a bar top or even a smaller unit. If these kids are sickly, you don't want them to have to climb up on stools/chairs with all their potential IV gear and what not (even if physically able to). I think a small bar top that the staff can place on a table somewhere would be ideal versus a large arcade sitting in a corner/hallway. I also have to echo the concern about "bootleg" roms/emulators. I highly doubt someone is going to come in and drop the hammer on it, but if people start asking questions, you never know who might be in that hospital (game company exec, local vendor, etc. )

using one of those "60 in 1" game consoles might be another way to go, that way they are legal, compact, and will have previews of all the games. Hook it up to a TV in  a small bar top and forget about it. Seems you are intent on building a multi system, and good on ya, but I think this could be done much more cost effectively to you, and safer in the long run.

[consolas]

Hello!

MDF was a no go due to not being able to take a punch (regarding liquids). I've learned that with some varnish it should hold way better so it is up again. If I find a cheap kind of wood instead of MDF, why not?

I've played in one of those 60x1 boards - to be honest, it kind of sucks, at least the one I use. Grantly, they would probably didn't mind but I don't want to leave something there that I'm not proud of or happy. If it comes to that, they are more important (and ultimately the objective) so whatever is required to get the machine there would be surely done.

I though about the bartop but too many beels start ringing: it would be place on a table hence prone to getting hit, it would be movable hence transported to a room (or even outside and puf.... ), it wouldn't have a steady place so I kind of depended on their best judgment to get the cab on a solid surface, etc.

It was just too much so I decided with a general heavy cab, so they can't crash it on top of another kid by mistake and get hurt. I do want to get smaller cabs inside the UCI wards where some of this little fellows are isolated but that is a next project, with a lot more requirements.

Regarding the machine legitimacy, to be honest I didn't know the 60x1 type of boards were legal, always thought they were "ilegal", sort of speak. if it comes to that, I will handle that situation and in the end just take the machine out. I hope it doesn't come to that. Really do. It would be a stab to the soul to be honest.

Thank you for your kind words and concerns!

[reptileink]

I guess I should clarify. By "multi game" console I mean the Flashback types.

Sega has the Mega Drive (comes with 80 games...40 ACTUAL Sega games) 3 simple buttons (or comes with wireless controllers) It's $54 on Amazon with free Prime shipping. I do have to say though, this system isn't the greatest, just thinking of consoles of the like.

You can get hacked controllers if you want to use actual arcade controls.

How long are these kids going to play? I am sure they won't be able to complete a game in the time they have to play it (including share time).

Sonic is a great game for kids, and it has a bit of the "older" titles without the fear of adult content or things too violent. I don't know the whole list of games, but I am sure 40 would be more than enough for a system that kids might play for an hour or two a day.

Also, not sure what type of ward it is, but you need to think about seizure potential ( I hope the hospital folks would have considered this already)

[consolas]

I've taken most into account: this ward is where kids can roam freely and don't need "special" attention (I'm refering for instance, to kids that are in ICU due to really low whice cells count, they have to be isolated until their imune system recovers).

The thing with consoles - and I've thought about it, like buying consoles in second hand and just give the consoles to them - are the remotes.

The parents of this children rarely see their kids smile (sometimes the tretaments smash so hard their imune systems that they go for weeks with hardly saying word let alone smile) so when they are playing the consoles and just getting distracted, the controlers are the last of everyone's concern so they have a time span of weeks/days: they fall, get smashed, get lost, etc.

Sure I could get more controllers but I chose this - like I said, this isn't out of selfishness on my own, I will feel my sould full as soon as I see them playing on the machine.

The seizures is a very good point: this won't be an issue as, like I said before, they already have (had) consoles, tv, etc.

There are a few games I Would love to have: the street fighter but with kids (I just found this out yesterday, game is so funny), metal slug (cartoonish), mario, sonic, ninja turtles, cap comando: stuff like this.

Edit.: By the way, sick project! (your signature)

[yotsuya]

I've taken most into account: this ward is where kids can roam freely and don't need "special" attention (I'm refering for instance, to kids that are in ICU due to really low whice cells count, they have to be isolated until their imune system recovers).

The thing with consoles - and I've thought about it, like buying consoles in second hand and just give the consoles to them - are the remotes.

The parents of this children rarely see their kids smile (sometimes the tretaments smash so hard their imune systems that they go for weeks with hardly saying word let alone smile) so when they are playing the consoles and just getting distracted, the controlers are the last of everyone's concern so they have a time span of weeks/days: they fall, get smashed, get lost, etc.

Sure I could get more controllers but I chose this - like I said, this isn't out of selfishness on my own, I will feel my sould full as soon as I see them playing on the machine.

The seizures is a very good point: this won't be an issue as, like I said before, they already have (had) consoles, tv, etc.

There are a few games I Would love to have: the street fighter but with kids (I just found this out yesterday, game is so funny), metal slug (cartoonish), mario, sonic, ninja turtles, cap comando: stuff like this.

Edit.: By the way, sick project! (your signature)

I'm no prude, but I'm surprised you keep mentioning Metal Slug. Yes, it's cartoony, but it's also pretty violent. Just an observation, not a judgement. How old are these kids anyway?

[consolas]

Saw some videos and yeah, it is kind of an aggressive games for kids. Captain Commando is out of the question as well, I think.

The ward is a general ward so it has kids raging from 5-6 to maybe 12-13. Of course teens can also go there but I don't think is common for them to do that.

It is way more common for the 10-12 year old to go to rest area of the teens, as far as I understood - hence all the broken controllers.

So I need to revise the list I had in mind: I think I can get nintendo games to work, right? That is always a safe choice. Mario 1 and 2

So, Marios, Sonic.

Those plane games (even they are vertical) - saw a bunch here - it is just explosions of stuff, no "persons" so I think it is cool.

What do you think? Whatever the games may be, the rest needs to be done so all good.

Will get this speakers tomorrow, 5€ (around 6$).

So 25€ so far. Not bad.

[reptileink]

Are there tall enough stools/seats for the smaller kids to play a full sized machine? I'm just worried about a full sized arcade being too big, or putting kids up on stools where potential of them falling off is greater. My twins are 6 years old and while they can reach the controls of my arcade, they can't see the screen too well.

Also, I think you are missing my point about the "flashback" style consoles. You can get hacked controllers (or hack one yourself) and then hook it up via arcade controls so you can still have your cake and eat it too.

Thanks for the kudos by the way. That project is in a current state of rehab...lol

[consolas]

I hear you!

I posted somewhere in this thread (I posted a lot of stuff, I know! aha) the dimensions I wanted to use to see if anyone with kids could provide a solid input.

The height of the plan intended a playing height of 1.20 meters, around that. So I just sliced 20/30cm, making the height at 1meter. This way smaller kids can get on a bench (which doesn't have to be very high and thus reducing risk of falling) and higher kids won't have to be all curved and uncomfortable while playing.

What do you think? Should I make it lower?

[monkeybomb]

Does anyone have moppet plans?  I've always wanted to see street fighter played on a tugboat cabinet.

[consolas]

Got the boards.

I got 3 with 19mm because I read here, on other threads, that it is the "safe" choice. I could go with MDO but from what I understood, I need to know what I'm doing regarding cutting it and building a structure to support it. That is definately not the case! 

I think 19mm MDF is more forgiving as it stays in place better and it is easier to cut and do shapes.

Also, for the t-molding, if I'm able to get it, I read that 19mm is the standard size or, at least, the most used. I don't have a router so I don't think I will be able to use it. I'll try to come up with a solution - I assume there are materials similar to t-molding that you can just glue or even nail to the border of the boards. Not as cool, sure, but at least it would protect the edges of the cade.

So the 19mm are for the sides of the arcade and the floor, if I get the desktop I spoke off before. If I go with the PI, it doesn't make much of a difference being the 10mm or 19mm, although I think I would benefit more, structure wise, from the 19mm floor.

The 10mm are for the bottom of the top of the arcade (below the marquee) -  I'll try to get a drawing here later on.

The 3mm is for whatever may be necessary. It was around 2€ (3$) so I thought I should get it - I had a ride that helped me out so I needed to get all wood NOW or else I would need to order a home delivery and that is way too expensive.

Looking good! Falling back on schedule, though.

I'm gonna get the speakers tomorrow (6$) and the wood was around 61€ (roughly 65$)

Money so far

Monitor: 20€ (22$)
Speakers: (still to be delivered) 5€ (6$)
Wood: 61€ (65$)
PC/PI: To be defined
Controllers (plus IPAC): To be defined

All: 86€ (92$)

I'm counting with 100€ (107$) for Ipac, buttons and joystick - from ultimarc. I'm from Europe, so ports shouldn't be that expensive. The 100€ doesn't take that into account, maybe 10€ more?

I was aiming for 200€ (214$) and it worries me that I will probably go over it - I hope that not by much, can't really worry about that now and need to continue the project.

Other stuff - configuring the PI

In case I can't get my hands on the desktop, I will use a PI as discussed before. I started to install Raspbian and Retropie and trying to get that to work. Seems pretty cool - I'm having some issues with the retropie freezing after a few minutes of activity, even in just the menus but I didn't read much about what may be the problem so hopefuly it is a matter of configuration.


As always, thanks for reading!

[consolas]

I'm ordering buttons so I thought about reviewing the games I will add to the machine.

A lot of you advised me in being extra careful with games so I search this forum regarding list of games for kids.

These two topics appeared, are are filled with good advices and lists of games!

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,106313.0.html

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,110192.0.html

The list is, roughly, as follow (copy/pasted from the threads above):

world class bowling - super easy for small kids, but still fun
TMNT
TMNT Turtles in Time
Sunset Riders
Xmen
captain america and the avengers
simpsons
Puzzle bobble
Bubble Bobble
Games my 7 and 5 yr old like:
Bomberman World
Tumble Pop
Forgotten Worlds
GI Joe
Rampage (of course)
Warriors of Fate
Knights of Valour
Roadblasters
Spider-Man
Shadow Force
Quartet
Gauntlet I, II
Magic Sword
Centipede
Galaga (the cocktail version I have)
pinball games
Liquid Kids
any of the Bubble Bobble games
any of the Puzzle Bobble games
Tugboat
Pac-Man series (on easy with 5 men standard)
Pole Position, Turbo (or car games in general)
Vs. Excitebike
Vs. Super Mario Bros.
Afterburner
Space Harrier
Frogger
Pacman
Mr. Do
Dig Dug
Donkey Kong
Mappy
APB
Arkanoid
Bump 'n Jump
Burger Time
Centipede
Congo Bongo
Crazy Balloon
Dig Dug
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong 3
Donkey Kong Jr.
Frogger
Kangaroo
Kick
Lock'n'Chase
Mappy
Mat Mania
Millipede
MotoRace USA
Mr. Do!
Ms. Pac Man
Pac Man
Q*Bert
Qix
Sinistar
Space Invaders
Tempest
Toobin'
Tron
Turtles
Up 'n Down

Console games:
Wii Acme Arsenal
Wii Soulcalibur Legends
SNES Legend of Zelda Link to Past
GBA Pokemon games
GBA YuGiOh games

Some of the games are duplicate, in the above list.

I'm sure I want:

TMNT, both of them but I know better the Time version, used to play it in SNES
Some of the airplanes type of games, where you fly a plane and avoid enemies and shoot everything in the ground
Caveman Ninja ( I think it is called Joe and Mac)

Metal Slug and etc are off, thank you guys for pointing that although cartoonish, it is still violent.

Now, my question: Do most of these games (if any) require a 6 button layout? Should I just go with a four button layout? (This is mainly to reduce the price and not having unused buttons that might be kind of confusing to the players)

Thank you very much

[yotsuya]

Glad you're thinking about it. All it takes is one person complaining about some game they saw on the cab to get it shut down. Since the primary target is little kids, keep it kid friendly.

[consolas]

Glad you're thinking about it. All it takes is one person complaining about some game they saw on the cab to get it shut down. Since the primary target is little kids, keep it kid friendly.

Totally agree, my friend.

On a related note, I think I'll go with the 6 button layout still - I don't want a game to required 6 buttons or something and then they can't play it.

[JDFan]

I'd actually cut the list of games down considerably -- right now you have too many games in the list and much of the time will be spent looking at the list rather than playing -- I'd limit it to a dozen or less games to make selecting a game to play easy and then after a while see which ones are never played - remove them and add a few new one to renew interest in playing.

[consolas]

I'd actually cut the list of games down considerably -- right now you have too many games in the list and much of the time will be spent looking at the list rather than playing -- I'd limit it to a dozen or less games to make selecting a game to play easy and then after a while see which ones are never played - remove them and add a few new one to renew interest in playing.

Cool, thanks for the advice. I have a problem though, I can't really check what games are played the most and I hardly think the supervisors will be able to control that.

What do you say a good number is? 12?

TMNT
1 puzzle bobble
1 bubble bobble
Simpsons (a lot of people keep talking about this one so it seems a good choice)
Frogger
Donkey Kong
One of those airplane games
Bomberman World
Space harrier (just saw a clip ahah)
Caveman Ninja (mac and joe)
Uo Poko (the lose animation is pretty messed up, though)

What else? Are there any fight games suitable for kids? I saw the street fighter mini that is funny as hell but it is, still, a fighting game.



/offtopic And that music remembered me of one of the games I loved the most, for the NES: snake rattle and roll. Don't know if it exists but would love to get it! /offtopic

What about Mario, Sonic, etc?

[monkeybomb]

I think 12 is a good number and I certainly wouldn't go higher than 20.  With the list being short, I would ditch the games that are made for a 4 way joystick.  Besides, as much as I like frogger and donkey kong, I don't know that children without personal attachment to the game are going to feel the same way.  I also would recommend adding Uo Poko.

[consolas]

I think 12 is a good number and I certainly wouldn't go higher than 20.  With the list being short, I would ditch the games that are made for a 4 way joystick.  Besides, as much as I like frogger and donkey kong, I don't know that children without personal attachment to the game are going to feel the same way.  I also would recommend adding Uo Poko.

Done deal.

I don't know Uo Poko but a few players here recommended that game. I just saw it and when the players lose, the animation is pretty messed up ahaha

[reptileink]

What about X-men (yea, it's a 4 player, but so is TMNT and Simpsons)

I would try and get some superhero games in there as well as maybe NFL blitz or some type of sports game. I am sure sickly kids might wish they could be outside playing a sport.

[consolas]

What about X-men (yea, it's a 4 player, but so is TMNT and Simpsons)

I would try and get some superhero games in there as well as maybe NFL blitz or some type of sports game. I am sure sickly kids might wish they could be outside playing a sport.

TNMT is 4 way? I keep thinking about this when I say TMNT -

I can't possible make a 4 way now: money, time and skill constraints. Specially money.

Should I ditch those games?

[BGoulette]

There are also two-player variants of TMNT and X-Men, fwiw...

[yotsuya]

There are also two-player variants of TMNT and X-Men, fwiw...

^^^ This. They're easy to implement.

[consolas]

Ok, cool! So 2 players controller it is.

I'm going to place the order now, just have some questions with the wires and stuff - I think I should get the wiring kit but it's around 25€. Well, if I make any more of this arcades, it will pay for itself I guess.

Any opinions on this?

The wiring kit includes:

Wiring kit containing everything you need to wire joysticks and buttons to an interface.
Black wire: 4 Metres for ground.
10 other colours: 2 metres of each colour
Crimp and strip tool.
100 crimp connectors
Cable ties.

Seems a fair choice.

[consolas]

Almost 200€ (220$) for:

2 Joysticks
12 buttons (6 x each side)
wiring kit
2 start buttons (1P and 2P)
1 IPac2

I didn't want to get lower quality joysticks or buttons as they need to be resistant but 200€ is way more than anticipated.

If I get this to 4 buttons per player I save around 7,50€.

What alternatives do I have here? Not many, right?


Edit.: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Arcade-JAMMA-60-in-1-Kit-w-2-Joysticks-4-8-way-16-HAPP-Push-Buttons-MAME-/251336973880?hash=item3a84d9de38:g:iusAAOSwv0tVXRue

This kind of prize is getting really competitive..is this kit that bad? I would still buy the IPAC

[reptileink]

I honestly don't think you need to go hardcore on the buttons/joysticks (although I can see why you want to).

It's not like they are going to be pounding buttons for fighting games.

I hate to say it, but either you are going to do this or not. I understand about not wanting to spend a lot of money on it, but that's kind of unavoidable if you want to make a quality lasting machine. 

If you want to put something together that might be cheaper but not as durable, you need to pick a side. You can't have your cake and not want to pay for it is what I'm saying.

What about this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAPP-Arcade-Control-Panel-Kit-14-HAPP-Push-Button-2-HAPP-Joystick-/251343306708?hash=item3a853a7fd4:m:mge-DLVQtoAIctZyClqMP1A

[consolas]

It's not like they are going to be pounding buttons for fighting games.

Well, I guess. Even with the turtles game, I think they manage to take a hit.

I hate to say it, but either you are going to do this or not. I understand about not wanting to spend a lot of money on it, but that's kind of unavoidable if you want to make a quality lasting machine. 

I agree but that is why I ask so many things here.

If I can get a button that is fairly good for 1/2 of the price of one that is more well known (considering it is good), I save money.

I know I'll spend money, that was a given. I just want the "enough best" I can, makes sense?

That is why I posted that last link. But I think I'll go with the ultimart options and be done with it.
 

[reptileink]

Did you see my link?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAPP-Arcade-Control-Panel-Kit-14-HAPP-Push-Button-2-HAPP-Joystick-/251343306708?hash=item3a853a7fd4:m:mge-DLVQtoAIctZyClqMP1A

[consolas]

Did you see my link?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HAPP-Arcade-Control-Panel-Kit-14-HAPP-Push-Button-2-HAPP-Joystick-/251343306708?hash=item3a853a7fd4:m:mge-DLVQtoAIctZyClqMP1A

No, I did not! Thanks! Even with shipping it seems an awesome deal! Uff...was feeling REALLY disapointed with the previous value as I was making the math and just wouldn't be able to make it!

Thanks!

Edit.: Ok so this is more or less the same price as Ultimarc. I think what is making it so expensive is the IPac and the wiring kit.

I'll try the wiring kit elsewhere, I think that one I can find cheaper in ebay. The rest, well, no chance.

Thanks anyway buddy!!