Help with Star Wars yoke adapter

[PL1]

I seems to try and load the drivers, but I don't think it's able to.

Hopefully the procedures below will take care of that.   

I'm also confused about this part in the firmware procedures (part 4)

I copied it verbatim from the manual, but here's a better breakdown.

Once FLIP is installed, the DFU bootloader drivers can be loaded.

The bootloader should already be loaded on your board -- assuming you selected "ATMEL DFU (FLIP)" when you ordered your board.

To enter the DFU bootloader, you just need to
- install the jumper
- plug in the board
- point Flip at the bootloader driver

Install the HWB jumper (or disconnect the pullup resistor) and power up the board (or press reset) to enter the DFU bootloader.

Since you installed the pullup resistor fom Vcc to E2/B, you just need to install the jumper so that it bridges the two pins. (ignore the disconnected pullup resistor in the pic -- installing the jumper does the same thing as disconnecting the resistor)



Schematic on pg 25 of the manual shows that the jumper (HWB jumper, lower left) connects the E2/B input to a 249 Ohm resistor connected to ground.

Vcc-->10,000 Ohm pullup resistor-->E2/B-->249 Ohm resistor-->ground
(E2/B is much closer to ground than Vcc)

When the input is pulled close to ground, it enters the DFU bootloader.

If you installed the jumper before the board was plugged in, it will enter the DFU bootloader when you plug it in.

If you installed the jumper after the board was plugged in, press the reset button to enter the DFU bootloader.

Windows will then prompt you for the ATmega32U4 driver -- point it to the Program Files/Atmel/Flip 3.4.2/usb directory and install.

Change 2 to 7 since you downloaded ver. 3.4.7 -- that's where the bootloader driver should be.

I think the correct driver filename is "atmel_usb_dfu.inf".

If the Atmel drivers do not work, you may need to install the signed drivers from http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Academy&func=viewItem&item_type=project&item_id=2196.

This is the broken link that I reported to Justin.

Still no word back on this.   

Once the driver is loaded, the device will appear as an ATmega32U4 device under Atmel USB Devices in the device manager.

Hopefully, the generic Atmel driver "atmel_usb_dfu.inf" will work for you.

If not, you need to find the signed driver.


Scott

[greenmanjph]

Ok, sorry for the delayed reply, got busy with work.

I think I'm missing something when trying the download the firmware. This may sound like another stupid question, but is the "jumper" the wire I installed from the resistor Vcc to E2/B and if not, what is it and how is it installed?

That may be what's holding me up on this.

[PL1]

what is the "jumper" and how is it installed?

The jumper is the black plastic and metal piece.

"Installed" means that it is connecting both pins.

When not needed, you can let it hang off just one pin.




Scott
EDIT: Made a better image.

[greenmanjph]

I'm still at square one and still can't load the drivers on the board  .

I looked at the  MT-DB-U4 User Guide and read the following:

Once FLIP is installed, the DFU bootloader drivers can be loaded. Install the HWB jumper and
power­up the board (or press reset). This will enter the DFU bootloader. The LED should be pulsing.
Windows will then prompt you for the ATmega32U4 driver. By default, this is located in the Program
Files/Atmel/Flip 3.4.2/usb directory. Point the installer to that directory and install.

If I leave the jumper off (which I mistakenly did before) and plug it in to the USB port, the LED stays lit. If I press the little button on the board, it goes off and then back on and stays lit.

If I put the jumper on, like the tutorial says to, the LED never lights up, even after pressing the button. I've never seen the LED "pulse".

Also, the AVR Freaks link (http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Academy&func=viewItem&item_type=project&item_id=2196) doesn't have any forums or links to the drivers I need, I searched multiple pages in the forum.

I feel like I'm so close, yet so far in finishing this cabinet  .

[PL1]

Once FLIP is installed, the DFU bootloader drivers can be loaded. Install the HWB jumper and
power­up the board (or press reset). This will enter the DFU bootloader. The LED should be pulsing.

The LEDs on mine never flash, but they program/work just fine.   

The green LED only lights when it is operating as a KADESTICK.

Also, the AVR Freaks link (http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?module=Freaks%20Academy&func=viewItem&item_type=project&item_id=2196) doesn't have any forums or links to the drivers I need, I searched multiple pages in the forum.

That's the "broken link" I mentioned earlier.

So far, no reply to the e-mail sent to Justin on October 14th. 

Installed "FLIP 3.4.7 for Windows (Java Runtime Environement included)" on an older XP system and got the same message that you got about "AtLibUsbDfu.dll not found" when trying to open a USB connection.

The odd thing is that the file is in the "Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\bin\" folder.   

I suggest that you register over at the AVR Freaks site and post about this issue there.

AFAIK, the admin there is Justin Mattair -- same guy we bought the boards from.


Scott

[PL1]

Got it!  (Sometimes I'm a total moron. )

Flip has to be installed before you plug in the 32u4 board and Windows asks for the driver.

If you get a "AtLibUsbDfu.dll not found message" error message from Flip when you click on the cable icon to open a USB connection to the board, the problem is a a wrong/missing board driver.
- Close Flip.
- Disconnect/reconnect/reset board as needed to get Windows to reload the driver. (not exactly sure how i got it to reload )
- Point the driver install wizard to the "..\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb" folder.
- Once the driver is installed, you can re-open Flip and follow the rest of the firmware load procedures.


Scott

[greenmanjph]

Oh my goodness, I think I actually got everything to work (drivers and hex file). I attached a screen shot of the FLIP software for you to confirm.

My next question is, once it's all programmed, as I'm assuming it is now, what do I do next? How is it hooked up to the emulator?

[PL1]

Oh my goodness, I think I actually got everything to work (drivers and hex file). I attached a screen shot of the FLIP software for you to confirm.

"Verify PASS" = it worked. 

Added a step and image so people know how to confirm that it works.

My next question is, once it's all programmed, as I'm assuming it is now, what do I do next?

Do step #9.   

Unplug the board from USB, move the jumper to the "Not Installed" position, re-connect the board to USB, and it is ready to use as a USB HID Joystick.  (Shows up as a gamepad in windows)

How is it hooked up to the emulator?

It connects via USB.

The emulator will see it as a USB HID Joystick.

You may need to remap inputs in the emulator.


Scott

[greenmanjph]

Ok, finally found a computer that would take MAME and the game, but now I'm hitting another speed bump.

As I play it, the cross hairs are jittery and when I pull up on the yoke, nothing happens. Sometimes there's also a delay with the other controls while it's jittery. A couple of times when I went to the game menu to configure the controls it would start going crazy and the highlighted bar would just keep going up and not stop (even when the yoke is not plugged in). I have video, but couldn't attach it. I thought maybe it was the laptop. It's my wife's older one and I thought maybe it couldn't run it right. Also, when I plugged the female to the male pins box, it actually pushed one of the wires out. I pushed it back in and on the pin and it seemed to start working better, but then it went right back to not working.

I don't know if this would affect it or not, but I'm not sure what the green ground wire attaches to. I'm assuming it attaches to the yoke case for grounding purposes, but I'm not exactly sure where. 

I hope it's not a hardware problem with the yoke, like the pots or something.

[PL1]

the cross hairs are jittery and when I pull up on the yoke, nothing happens.

Take the game/emulator/other software out of the equation by shutting them down and checking the gamepad properties.

If the crosshairs are jittery, you have either intermittent wiring or bad pots.

A couple of times when I went to the game menu to configure the controls it would start going crazy and the highlighted bar would just keep going up and not stop (even when the yoke is not plugged in).

If by "yoke is not plugged in" you mean the USB cable isn't connected, the yoke/interface isn't the cause.

If you mean that the molex connectors aren't connected, but the USB is connected, that might cause scrolling like what I saw while testing the 4-axis firmware.

Tried using just the SW yoke with the 4-axis firmware and noticed an obvious (in retrospect) but highly problematic side effect with the unused "Z-" and "Z Ro-" axes -- no wiper wire connected to the input = no voltage applied = they aren't centered.

The un-centered Z-axis (a.k.a. mouse scroll wheel) causes the MAMEUIFX menu (and probably many others) to constantly scroll.     

Also, with the yoke molex unplugged, the wires connected to the X- and Y-axis wiper inputs could be acting like antennas -- electromagnetic waves passing through the wires induce small voltages which appear as jitter.

The scrolling could also be caused by the potentiometer not being properly centered.

When the controller is centered, you should see approximately 2.5 Volts DC on the X- and Y-axis wiper inputs. (check at the terminal strip)

If you don't see the expected 2.5 Volts:
- Remove the small gear of the off-center axis (28-tooth for X-axis, 14-tooth for Y-axis)
- Turn the pot shaft to the middle of it's range of motion
- Verify that you have 2.5 Volts on the wiper input
- Re-install the small gear -- setscrew aligned with the flat of the pot shaft

when I plugged the female to the male pins box, it actually pushed one of the wires out. I pushed it back in and on the pin and it seemed to start working better, but then it went right back to not working.

You may want to use step 10 in the yoke tutorial to check whether the wiring is intermittent.

I don't know if this would affect it or not, but I'm not sure what the green ground wire attaches to. I'm assuming it attaches to the yoke case for grounding purposes, but I'm not exactly sure where. 

It is frame ground.

It connects to the metal frame of the yoke so you don't get fried if a 5v wire shorts to the frame.

I hope it's not a hardware problem with the yoke, like the pots or something.

Bad news: There is a chance that the pots are bad.

Good news: They are easy to replace.

ArcadeFixit has replacements -- search for "5k pot" and select the "Heavy Duty" one.



There are other options out there, but the ArcadeFixit ones are guaranteed to be the right type/size/fit.


Scott

[greenmanjph]

I had a feeling it was those darn pots.

A couple of things I forgot to mention (I was up pretty late trying to figure it out and started getting punchy).

About the menu highlighter, it would start going crazy when I used the yoke to move it (pushing it up and down), but again, it would sometimes still do it when I unplugged the yoke board USB. I did unplug it when it already started going crazy though, so maybe it was stuck in a glitch from using the yoke and couldn't stop. 

When trying to configure the controller, when I clicked to change the "up" control and pushed up on the yoke, nothing would happen, but when I pushed down, it would say "joystick up", so maybe something's crossed, or it could just be wishful thinking and I'll have to dole out the $40 for new pots. I also forgot to mention that the triggers work perfectly.

More on how it looks during the game; when I pulled down, the crosshairs would pull to the left and down, and of course they wouldn't go back up when I pushed up. However, if I released the yoke the crosshairs would go back to the middle.

Let me know what you think before I purchase new pots.

Thanks.

[greenmanjph]

Another question, how do I check for the 2.5 V at the terminal strip? What two areas do I put the leads on, is it one on the pot and the other on the terminal strip?

Also I'm assuming the board USB should be plugged into the computer to check for voltage.

Oh yeah, what's with the sound (music, sound effects) echoing?

[PL1]

Before you buy replacement pots, start by checking the wiring, verfying the pot centering, and checking the gamepad properties crosshairs.

If the wiring ohms out good but you still have jitter problems, you can swap in a cheap linear 5k pot like this one from Radio Shack to confirm if the pots are the problem.

Another question, how do I check for the 2.5 V at the terminal strip? What two areas do I put the leads on, is it one on the pot and the other on the terminal strip?

You can measure at either the pot or the terminal strip.

Easest way is to probe at the terminal setscrew since the leads are less likely to slip off or short out the pot tabs.

  - Set your multimeter to Volts DC.

  - Red lead on the X- or Y-axis Wiper terminal strip.

  - Black lead on the Gnd (Analog) terminal strip.

Also I'm assuming the board USB should be plugged into the computer to check for voltage.

Yes, you have to have power applied to check voltages.   

Oh yeah, what's with the sound (music, sound effects) echoing?

  That has nothing to do with the yoke and interface.   


Scott

P.S. Forgot to mention another option for replacement pots -- Mouser carries RV4NAYSD502A long-life pots.

They are *almost* the same, except for no flat on the shaft.

[greenmanjph]

Ok, checked the voltage at the terminal red on each wiper screw and black on the gnd analog screw). For the Y-axis wiper I got ~2.5 V and on the X-axis wiper I got ~1.7 V (Seemed a little surprising, I thought the Y-axis one would've been the one that was lower, because I'm assuming that's the one that does the up and down motion on the yoke).

I also tried measuring from the each pot joint (probably didn't do it right, but I'll post it here anyway). On the Y-axis, when I put the red lead on the red wire and the black lead on the gnd analog terminal screw I got ~5 V, on the white wire I got ~2.3 V and on the black wire I got 0. I got the same on the X-axis except the white wire was ~1.5 V.

I removed the gear on the X-axis and turned the shaft until it read 2.5 V and replaced the gear like you said.

I tried playing it again and the going up will make the crosshairs jump up about an inch but then go right back to the middle, it won't stay up at all just jumps up and goes back every time. When I turn to the right, it'll go, then jump back an inch or so and then go right and stay there. So I'm still getting some jumping around of the crosshairs, but not as much, and I didn't really see any jittering. However, going up is still not working. 

[PL1]

I removed the gear on the X-axis and turned the shaft until it read 2.5 V and replaced the gear

Sounds good.   

1.7v = 68% of 2.5v ==> about 1/3rd of the way from center (2.5v) to the lowest possible reading in that direction. (0v)   

I tried playing it again

Ahem. . . .  DO NOT USE A GAME TO TEST IF THE INTERFACE IS WORKING PROPERLY.

MAME settings (including the defaults) can cause symptoms like what you describe if not properly configured.

I wasn't B.S.ing you when I told you to use Windows gamepad properties to test (and calibrate, if needed) your yoke and interface.   

First get things working smoothly in gamepad properties, then we'll reconfigure your MAME settings for analog controls as described here.   


Scott
P.S. Duplicated the scrolling menu selection that you described by unplugging the interface's USB cable while MAME was running.  Scrolling stopped as soon as it was plugged back in.

[greenmanjph]

Ok, used Windows gamepad properties. On the test screen, the crosshairs are jittery in the box and when I move the yoke is does the same thing as I described before in the game. I did notice that when I pull up, the crosshairs move down and vice versa. The wires are correct in the terminal though.

After trying to calibrate multiple times, it still does the same thing.

Am I looking at bad pots, even though they have the proper voltage?

[PL1]

when I pull up, the crosshairs move down and vice versa. The wires are correct in the terminal though.

You can reverse the axis by swapping the 5v and ground wires on tabs 1 and 3 of the pot.

After trying to calibrate multiple times, it still does the same thing.

Am I looking at bad pots, even though they have the proper voltage?

With an 8-bit (0-255) A/D (analog to digital) converter, each step is less than 20 mV. (5v/256 steps)

The problem could be the pots and/or the wires. (probably the pots)

To eliminate the wires, use a jumper wire with insulated alligator clips or a screwdriver to short the center tab (wiper) of the pot to either the tab with 5v or ground.

If the wires/connections are good, the crosshairs should go all the way to the edge of the box and stay there without jitter.
- Jitter when shorting to 5v, but not when shorting to ground = bad 5v wire/connection
- Jitter when shorting to ground, but not when shorting to 5v = bad ground wire/connection
- Jitter when shorting wiper to 5v and when shorting wiper to ground = bad wiper wire/connection

If the wires/connections all check good,that just leaves the pots.


Scott

[greenmanjph]

Well, from your instructions, it looks like bad pots. I shorted the middle tab to each side tab and the crosshairs go right to the top/bottom or left/right sides of the box with no jittering.

I found these 5K pots on amazon, would these be ok? They're way cheaper than arcadefixit and I could actually get them tomorrow with Prime shipping. Someone in the reviews actually said they come with a flat side of the shaft too.

http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Electronics-5K-Ohm-Potentiometer/dp/B00CTWDHIO

Let me know what you think. 

[PL1]

The pots in a yoke take a lot of rough use compared to most potentiometer applications so it's a good idea to get long-life pots from a reputable manufacturer.

The pots you linked to aren't long-life and I have no idea what the quality is, but they will probably not last long.

Three choices from the posts above: (Allied Electronics doesn't have the kind I like in stock )

  1. ArcadeFixit - Highest price, long-life, high quality, no shaft mod needed

  2. Mouser - Much lower price, long-life, high quality, shaft mod optional (length is good, might want to add a flat)

  3. Radio Shack - Lowest price, not long-life, medium quality, shaft mod probably required (Y-axis pot shaft probably needs cut to length, might want to add a flat)

IMHO the Mouser pots will give you the best bang for your buck.

If you want to order from Amazon, go with these -- slightly more expensive than Allied or Mouser, but same quality + part number RV4NAYSD502A.   


Scott

[greenmanjph]

You mentioned an optional shaft mod and adding a flat to the shaft from Mouser. Is there a way to do that? I  used the link from your earlier post and looked all around the site and can't find a way to change it from a slotted shaft and any searches about shaft mods or flats turns up nothing.

I'm also wondering if I should give the original Amazon ones a try. I know they're cheaper and may not last as long, but I don't think I would be playing it every single day, since work gets in the way. Then again, maybe I'm just being impatient.

[PL1]

You mentioned an optional shaft mod and adding a flat to the shaft from Mouser. Is there a way to do that?

Dremel tool with cutoff wheel is the preferred method.   

Takes longer to set up the dremel than it does to cut the flat. (just modded the one below)

. . . or you can use a bench grinder if you have the necessary finesse.   


Scott

[greenmanjph]

Ok, sorry for the delay. I had to wait and then replace the pots. Now, after installing the pc and monitor, I'm finding a problem with the display. When I load up the SW or ESB games, the screen only shows a little bit of everything and leaves out a lot, especially the ships flying around, the lasers and background. The only game that seems to show everything is the ROTJ game (pics of the screen in different parts and games are attached).

They seemed to work fine on my monitor and regular desktop running windows 7, the only other computer I could find to use for the cabinet is running Windows XP with nothing on it but mame. The monitor is hooked up with a VGA to DVI adapter because the PC only has a DVI port and the monitor olnly has a VGA port (but I assuming if it was that, everything being displayed would look weird).

Let me know what you think.

[PL1]

Looks like the video settings need to be tweaked. (the MAME vector defaults aren't very good)

- Launch Star Wars.

- Press Tab to bring up the menus.

- Go to the "Slider Controls" menus.

- Adjust Brightness (~1.080?), Contrast (~1.500?), and Gamma (~1.300?) to suit your monitor and preference.


Scott

[greenmanjph]

I fixed the video settings like you said, but I'm still experiencing the same problem. Another weird thing I noticed is when I pull up the menu after pressing tab, the background comes back (although some of the letters on the screen get a little glitchy), but when I highlight "return to previous menu" on the menu the background disappears again. I ran the game on my regular monitor and everything shows up fine. I attached pics of the screen with and without the menu. The last pic is game play on the monitor attached to my other computer.

I also notice that when the screen changes during the demo, a bunch of vector lines zigzag around the screen for about a second and at the first menu before going to the actual game I notice very subtle "blanks" going through the menu. Almost as if there's an invisible line going from the top to the bottom of the screen (that's the best way I can describe it).

EDIT 4:21 pm: I attached another pic of the screen shots and explanations that will hopefully explain it better.

[PL1]

Not sure what is causing that issue.   

Is the game running at 100% all the time? (Press "F11" to check)

Are there any other programs running in the background?

What "flavor" (Official MAME, MAMEUIFX, GroovyMAME, etc.) and version (0.167) of MAME are you running?


Scott

[greenmanjph]

Here are some screen shots of the MAME version and what the screen is has been doing recently (by the way, those aren't scratches on the screen).

EDIT: 8:01 pm, The last attached pic is when a different monitor is hooked up to the system. I thought maybe the VGA/DVI adapter or the monitor was bad, so I hooked up a different monitor directly to the PC with a DVI cable and got the same problem. I'm starting to think it's something with the PC.

EDIT: 8:32 pm, All the crazy lines only come up when F11 is pressed and shows the 100% in the top corner, and like yesterday, the TAB menu will show the background, but I was semi-wrong, it only comes up when "Dip Switches" is highlighted on the TAB menu.

[PL1]

Those are some wierd vector artifacts.   

Looks like the timing is off on the electron beam blanking emulation or the brightness is set way too high -- In a vector CRT, the beam turns on to draw a line like an etch-a-sketch, turns off (blanking) to move to the start of the next line, turns on to draw the next line, . . . .   

When you get that on an LCD, it's more than likely an emulation software/emulation drivers/video card/video memory/video drivers issue not a monitor issue.

The fact that the "crazy lines only come up when F11 is pressed and shows the 100% in the top corner" tells me that your video card/memory/driver are probably being overwhelmed with that extra bit of work every frame.

1. Does it look/work normally during gameplay?  If so, can you live with the menu glitches?   

2. Do you have the same problems in The Empire Strikes Back? (ROMname = esb, uses the same "starwars.c" driver)

3. Are you running a re-compiled "no-nag" version of MAME (the "annoying" info boxes/error messages might be your friend  ) or did you get it straight from the official source here.

4. Have you tried a different version of MAME? (0.157-0.166 since ROM rename in 0.157 was last SW change AFAIK)

5. Have you tried a different "flavor" of MAME? (i.e. current version of MAMEUIFX or older versions linked here)

If 3-5 don't help, you might need to upgrade -- not sure what hardware/OS you're running.   


Scott

[greenmanjph]

SUCCESS!! 

After a bunch of going back and forth, my friend finally brought me another, newer laptop he had. We tested everything right away and lo and behold everything worked!!

I had to tweak the pots, because they were responding differently during the game than on the game controller menu on Windows, which of course was a little tedious, but it worked out in the long run.

The gears still stick a little on some points, but I'm sure with some tweaking/oiling here and there, they should run smoother. I know I'll have to eventually buy new gears, but I'm hoping it'll be way in the future and I'll worry about that when the time comes.

I attached a pic of my finished cabinet running and lit up (had to DIY some of the lighting sources). The second picture is of the marquee, because it wouldn't come out on the full photo.

I really want to thank you, Scott for your quick replies and all your help. I definitely know that if I run into any problems with this, or future systems, this is THE place to go.

Thanks again.     

[PL1]

SUCCESS!! 

Congrats.  Looks great.   

BTW, another thing that will help is once the game boots up, move the yoke in the largest possible rectangle -- the game will automatically calibrate based on the greatest range of values returned by the pots.   


Scott