Prototype Control Layout! Feedback please?

[ladysephiroth]

So I took some great advice and  used the TankStick as a starting point -- used Excel (not kidding, it works for this stuff if you don't have anything else, I use it for sewing patterns) to blow it up and print it tiled so I could play with it. 

So the top 2 buttons are player 1 and 2 start, 6 button with a stick layout on each side, the blue is a 2 1/4 inch trackball (i can only find purple in that size) and the red is a spinner -- I think that's the only part not to scale cause it's the size of a peanut butter lid but man do I want a purple metallic spinner (TurboTwist from GGG comes in shiny purple, not sure how big the knob is though.)   

Design wise, still toying with ideas, thinking pink and black decoupage of some flavor with purple components.  Yes it will be girly. I'm a girl

Thoughts on the layout tho? Anything I'm missing? I'm going to use the same base/angle dimensions as the TankStick (4.75 inches to 3.25 inches,) and put 2 black coin/flipper buttons on the side.   

EDIT: The whiter white is just acrylic paint I used as whiteout for stuff I don't want or wanted to move. 
Thanks!

[geeteoh]

Might need some admin buttons for the front end and emulator. Are you leaving enough room for the sides of the CP? Will the player buttons and spinner interfere with the edges of the CP sides underneath?

[mgb]

It's not bad but personally I would first round the sort of sharp edges on the cp shape
Second I'd move down the controls a little so the player doesn't have to reach too far.
I would also move the track ball down to be just a slight bit lower than the controls and move the spinner maybe up just above the controls to one side.

I just never find the need to have the spinner in the middle, even some spinner games don't have it in the middle. As long as it's reachable, it's pretty easy to use.

[DudeRegular]

Agree on moving the trackball down to the bottom middle. Many of the games you will be approaching the TB from the bottom. I wouldn't want the spinner below it.

[megamoze]

Looking good!

You definitely want the spinner above the trackball though.  Also, this is an unforeseen problem I ran into, but find out how big the body of the trackball is and make sure you leave enough room underneath your cp for all the gear (including the wires).  Some of my buttons ended up very very close to the edge of the base and it was a difficult to get the wiring correct.

[Xiaou2]

Trackball - Lower on the CP... but leave at least 1ft diameter circle of free space.     Otherwise, a hard and fast roll could smash your fingers into one of the nearest joysticks / controls.     Buttons can be closer however... due to the fact that they are so much shorter... and your hand generally lifts upwards after you roll past the ball.

Spinner - You can place this at a slight diagonal to the joystick... which then allows either Stick or spinner to be used... without any comfort or play problems.

 OR - In the lower example... you could place it on the right side... and that would allow for better use of a Spinner & Joystick at the same time.  In that use... you might look for a button topped stick.

 Buttons - I recommend placing them as close together as possible.  This keeps it easier to span multiple buttons without finger cramping.  You also have less chance of missing a buttons center most point.. as well as accidentally pressing the wrong area.

  With the 7 button layout.. you can play either Street Fighter layout... or a Neo Geo layout..   and you can make the nearest button a true Arcade leaf switch.  These are best for rapidfire or contentious games like Galaga, Satans Hollow..etc.  (far less fatigue than microswitches)

 You could put Pinball buttons on either sides of the CP...  and possibly use Coin Returns on the front face, as buttons for coinups.   Also maybe a pinball plunger too.

 
 * Another alternative spinner location... is to mount them horizontally, on the sides or front of the panel.   Like Stereo volume dials.

[ladysephiroth]

I can switch the spinner and the trackball -- I have this thing with symmetry which is why they're centered (ask me how long I took to get the player 1 and 2 buttons even )

It's not going in a cab, just on the floor/table for the TV.  I live in a fairly small townhouse and don't have room for a full cab, plus the machine I'm using on the TV is also my streaming,  vintage console (soon the have the USB vintage-type controllers) and StepMania machine so I have no problem grabbing the keyboard to escape out of AttractMode.  If I take it places to show it off (cons or the game club I advise at school) it's actually better to have some measure of control over who can and cannot get out of whatever I have it set for -- yes I do have a used account set up for such things but  people (kids) are smart!

I was worried about trackball/spinner clearance, hence this I put the trackball where it has abut an inch more.   This is the only purple trackball I can find: http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113_117&products_id=1522 so that's the one I am looking at using. 

Thanks for the thoughts!  Anything else?

[harveybirdman]

I have this thing with symmetry which is why they're centered

This thinking has GOT to go if you want a comfortable panel with trackball and spinner support.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but that's pretty darn solid advice that Xiaou2 gave there....

[yotsuya]

Good luck with your build!

[DeLuSioNal29]

I'd strongly advise to download Northeast Custom's (formerly Mameroom) control panel designer.  It allows you to drop in actual parts (including that purple Happ trackball and it will automatically tell you how big it is underneath and how much room you need.  You can use it to plan stuff out, and then once you have something, you can plan it out by using your grid method.

Here's the free program:
http://www.mameroom.com/files/CPD_Setup.zip

Here's a write-up about it:
http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/mameroom-custom-control-panel-service/




DeLuSioNaL29

[Green Giant]

Spinner - You can place this at a slight diagonal to the joystick... which then allows either Stick or spinner to be used... without any comfort or play problems.

 OR - In the lower example... you could place it on the right side... and that would allow for better use of a Spinner & Joystick at the same time.  In that use... you might look for a button topped stick.

 * Another alternative spinner location... is to mount them horizontally, on the sides or front of the panel.   Like Stereo volume dials.

I agree with you on spinner location being closer to the outside for ease of play, but I have been having trouble deciding left of player 1 or right of player 2.
I was thinking right would be more comfortable and then I remember tron, but then again that was a weird panel.

[Xiaou2]

I can switch the spinner and the trackball -- I have this thing with symmetry which is why they're centered (ask me how long I took to get the player 1 and 2 buttons even )

It's not going in a cab, just on the floor/table for the TV.  I live in a fairly small townhouse and don't have room for a full cab, plus the machine I'm using on the TV is also my streaming,  vintage console (soon the have the USB vintage-type controllers) and StepMania machine so I have no problem grabbing the keyboard to escape out of AttractMode.  If I take it places to show it off (cons or the game club I advise at school) it's actually better to have some measure of control over who can and cannot get out of whatever I have it set for -- yes I do have a used account set up for such things but  people (kids) are smart!

I was worried about trackball/spinner clearance, hence this I put the trackball where it has abut an inch more.   This is the only purple trackball I can find: http://www.twistedquarter.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113_117&products_id=1522 so that's the one I am looking at using. 

Thanks for the thoughts!  Anything else?

 I think you should re-think the symmetry thing.

 1)  You dont look at a control panel when you are playing... However, if your are physically uncomfortable... you will feel it right away, and it will bother you the entire time that you are trying to enjoy the experience.    Like having a small pebble in your shoes, while at an amusement park.  Except... in this case, that rock cant be taken out.

 2)  Many things we utilize in daily life, are not symmetrical.   You car controls... all on one side.  (unless you drive an F1)   Microwaves - Controls on one side.  I could generate millions of such examples.    Dont let OCD cause you to bow to losses in playability and comfort.


 What you do not realize... is that the deeper controls are on a panel... the more uncomfortable it is to use them... even for mild play times.

 You also have to consider where your arms are going to rest.  If you have to place your arms on top of a row of buttons to use it... those buttons are going to be dig into your skin.. and wont feel that good at all.

 If you place the Spinner directly above the trackball...   Well, some people dont always arc upwards on forward rolls.  They end up almost sliding on the CP surface.   Ramming into the Spinner.... could get you Broken fingers... and a bent spinner shaft.   

 Placing a spinner below the trackball,  and now you have to reach further to use the trackball.. and still run the risk of smashing your hand (wrist) into it... when rolling it downwards - such as in Marble Madness.   

 And, to be clear... again... if the trackball is too deep... you lose arm length.. and thus mechanical advantage.  It will become harder to give the thing a good fast and accurate roll.   It may also cause physical strain... (as well as a possible injury similar to carpel tunnel, as strain often is a sign of a problem... and left unchecked, that problem can become quite bad, quite quickly)

 Also, remember... that 1ft diameter clearance is a minimum.   The more room, the better.

 You could place the trackball on the Other side of the panel (upside down),   and just rotate the panel when you wish to use it / them.

Spinner - You can place this at a slight diagonal to the joystick... which then allows either Stick or spinner to be used... without any comfort or play problems.

 OR - In the lower example... you could place it on the right side... and that would allow for better use of a Spinner & Joystick at the same time.  In that use... you might look for a button topped stick.

 * Another alternative spinner location... is to mount them horizontally, on the sides or front of the panel.   Like Stereo volume dials.

I agree with you on spinner location being closer to the outside for ease of play, but I have been having trouble deciding left of player 1 or right of player 2.
I was thinking right would be more comfortable and then I remember tron, but then again that was a weird panel.

 The nice thing about spinners.. is that they favor no side.   You can spin a dial either direction, with either hand.. pretty much equally.

 The Larger Trigger sticks give you a mechanical advantage... and so using them in either hand generally isnt that difficult either.

 However... a smaller top button stick might be more difficult to play on a side you are not used to.   Spinning isnt as vigerous and doesnt require the precise motor control that joystick operation requires...  So in this case, you should probably side with the hand that you use for typical joystick operation.

 The only other considerate, is Buttons.    If you are faster at pressing fire with one hand or the other.   Or at least... maybe your brain feels more comfort if the fire buttons are on the 'usual' side.   A leaf button helps... because its easier to "Float" the button gently like a diver on a springboard...   (creating very fast rapidfire sessions, with little effects from fatigue)...  rather than Micros... which take more pressure, longer travel, and present more fatigue.


 I never had an issue playing Tron... (or any spinner game really)     The hardest part about tron... was trying to rapid-fire with the Sticks trigger button.   This becomes a real challenge on the 2nd or higher stages of the MCP.    The aiming was easy... but getting fast enough fire rate to enter the cone safely... wow.. that gets intense!  ^_^

[ladysephiroth]

I'd strongly advise to download Northeast Custom's (formerly Mameroom) control panel designer.  It allows you to drop in actual parts (including that purple Happ trackball and it will automatically tell you how big it is underneath and how much room you need.  You can use it to plan stuff out, and then once you have something, you can plan it out by using your grid method.

Here's the free program:
http://www.mameroom.com/files/CPD_Setup.zip

Here's a write-up about it:
http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/mameroom-custom-control-panel-service/[/url





DeLuSioNaL29

Don't suppose they make this program for Mac? I don't have a Windoze machine over here, all Apple, all the time!

The funny thing is, I didn't move the sticks or the buttons from the default TankStick placement, I just moved the trackball, but on the same vertical line -- has anyone actually used on of those?  Are they super-uncomfy to use? 

I can move the spinner ...  prolly to where my left hand would be able to use it, since that's the side I use on the joystick/dpad. 

FYI:

Was my inspiration, from the Show Your CP thread.  I liked the simplicity of it.