RGB button wire - what to use.

[n3wt0n]

Hi everyone,

a quick question regarding RGB buttons and the wiring that they require. I have searched the forums and see that people use a cable with 4 or 5 other smaller wires inside. What is this cable called?  Also, what is the smallest wire you should use with RGB buttons? How about the common ground wire and the button wire? Should they be a heavier gauge than the LED wires? I found this and it looks pretty cool. It is 5 wires so it has enough wires to do the RGB, power and the button. It is only 24 awg though and I am not sure if that is going to be too small. I like how it looks and it would keep everything really tidy coming out of the controller but I also understand it may be a bit difficult to work with because it is flat.

Thanks,
n3wt0n

[Slippyblade]

Considering that each conductor is only running less than 20ma, I'd not worry about wire gauge.  I've seen people use strands of hard drive cable with no problems.

[Sarver Systems]

You are referring to ribbon cable.

Ebay sells it.

You can also use cat5 network cable, but keep in mind it is solid wire, not stranded, so you it is a little more brittle.

[eds1275]

Wire is not usually named, but there's a number system. So for example if you wanted 4 wires in one sheath or 20 gauge, it would be 20/4.

Sometimes they label the wire for the most common usage, like Speaker wire, bell wire, etc but always have a number as well... at least in my experience.

[Nephasth]

22 gauge stranded black.

[n3wt0n]

22 gauge stranded black.

For everything? Seems like a good way to make a mess of things. I like all the pretty colours though. Would you say 22 gauge is the smallest gauge you would use?

Thanks everyone. This should help greatly.

[Nephasth]

Oh, it makes a horrible mess:



I use 22 gauge as my standard "harness wire" and 26 gauge wire when soldering to small components.

[zaltec]

I was looking at the exact same wire from Lee Valley as a test sample, the wife was supposed to pick me up a length for xmas... well, she did, but they sold her the "in-wall" (jacketed cables) instead of the "standard" (flat wires), so it wasn't quite what I wanted... oh well

[n3wt0n]

Oh, it makes a horrible mess:

I use 22 gauge as my standard "harness wire" and 26 gauge wire when soldering to small components.

Wow, that is a thing of beauty! Well done. How did you keep all the wires straight when everything was black?

[n3wt0n]

I was looking at the exact same wire from Lee Valley as a test sample, the wife was supposed to pick me up a length for xmas... well, she did, but they sold her the "in-wall" (jacketed cables) instead of the "standard" (flat wires), so it wasn't quite what I wanted... oh well

Zaltec, I was just looking on Lee Valleys site but only see it with 4 wires. Have you found it with 5 wires like the pic I posted above?

[Fast351]

26ga is PLENTY for switches.  You're drawing microamps through there, not enough to matter. 

The biggest thing is a decent strand count, and more importantly a really good wire stripper to prevent nicking the handful of strands thin wire does have. 

I like the idea of using CAT5.  Color coded and you can get it stranded (in wall stuff is usually solid, stuff for patch cords is usually stranded).

Alternatively, you could use non-twisted "multiconductor cable".  It is available in any number of conductors, is not twisted, is stranded, and all color coded.  Alpha wire and belkin are two manufacturers of such cable.

The idea I've always liked, and would make a really convenient disconnect point, is buy a DB25 cable.  Cut it in half, wire half to your control panel, the other half to whereever the connections would otherwise be made.  Now you have a control panel you can disconnect in 5 seconds.  You just have to buy a DB25 of premium quality to get thicker than 28AWG wire inside. 

Something like this:

http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/Premium-PC-Modem-Cable-DB25-Male-DB25-Female-25-Conductor-24-AWG-10-ft-3-0-m/EVMTBSM-0010

or this:

http://www.l-com.com/d-sub-premium-molded-d-sub-cable-db25-male-female-150-ft

[Nephasth]

Oh, it makes a horrible mess:

I use 22 gauge as my standard "harness wire" and 26 gauge wire when soldering to small components.

Wow, that is a thing of beauty! Well done. How did you keep all the wires straight when everything was black?

Thanks. Planning and pinouts.

The idea I've always liked, and would make a really convenient disconnect point, is buy a DB25 cable.  Cut it in half, wire half to your control panel, the other half to whereever the connections would otherwise be made.  Now you have a control panel you can disconnect in 5 seconds.  You just have to buy a DB25 of premium quality to get thicker than 28AWG wire inside. 

---fudgesicle--- DB25. Buy a set of good crimpers and roll your own harnesses. 

[zaltec]

Zaltec, I was just looking on Lee Valleys site but only see it with 4 wires. Have you found it with 5 wires like the pic I posted above?

I missed the 5th wire in that, sorry, the one I was looking at is only 4.

[n3wt0n]

26ga is PLENTY for switches.  You're drawing microamps through there, not enough to matter. 

The biggest thing is a decent strand count, and more importantly a really good wire stripper to prevent nicking the handful of strands thin wire does have. 

I like the idea of using CAT5.  Color coded and you can get it stranded (in wall stuff is usually solid, stuff for patch cords is usually stranded).

Alternatively, you could use non-twisted "multiconductor cable".  It is available in any number of conductors, is not twisted, is stranded, and all color coded.  Alpha wire and belkin are two manufacturers of such cable.

The idea I've always liked, and would make a really convenient disconnect point, is buy a DB25 cable.  Cut it in half, wire half to your control panel, the other half to whereever the connections would otherwise be made.  Now you have a control panel you can disconnect in 5 seconds.  You just have to buy a DB25 of premium quality to get thicker than 28AWG wire inside. 

Something like this:

http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Detail.aspx/Premium-PC-Modem-Cable-DB25-Male-DB25-Female-25-Conductor-24-AWG-10-ft-3-0-m/EVMTBSM-0010

or this:

http://www.l-com.com/d-sub-premium-molded-d-sub-cable-db25-male-female-150-ft

Thanks Fast351, I will look into some of that wire and definitely make sure I get a good set of strippers.

---fudgesicle--- DB25. Buy a set of good crimpers and roll your own harnesses. 

Nephasth, I would be interested in learning how to "roll your own" harnesses. Do you have a source for harnesses with a large pin number? I would like to make harnesses as I wont be keeping my controller board on the bottom side of the control panel.

[yotsuya]

Neph is correct. There are fewer things in this hobby more satisfying than rolling your own harnesses.

[ChanceKJ]

Yeah, rolling your own is the cleanest and best way. I learned so much by going custom on all my CP wire. It's time consuming and it can be tedious, but the results speak for themselves. I just finished a minor rewire of my coin door and P1/2 sticks, so I took some pics of the setup for you.

[n3wt0n]

wow ChanceKJ! that looks SO clean. I love that people on here consider the wiring a piece of art and as important as the exterior of the cab.

[ChanceKJ]

Haha, thanks,  personally I think it looks like a rats nest as it was my first try, I know I could do better. Im also highly critical of my own work.

[n3wt0n]

I like the idea of using CAT5.  Color coded and you can get it stranded (in wall stuff is usually solid, stuff for patch cords is usually stranded).

I had a friend suggest cat5 over the weekend and I am strongly considering it. Has anyone in the forums done a RGB control panel with cat5? I would love to see pics of a completed control panel that was wired with this. Suggestions?

Thanks.

[yotsuya]

Haha, thanks,  personally I think it looks like a rats nest as it was my first try, I know I could do better. Im also highly critical of my own work.

Yes, and I won't ever do it again. Too thin.

[n3wt0n]

Yes, and I won't ever do it again. Too thin.

Thanks Yotsuya.  Was it too thin and difficult to work with or was it too thin and kept failing on you?  Also, was it stranded or solid?

[Brian74]

Solid cat5 is ok if you dont plan on bending it more then what you need to. Otherwise you will have breaks 

[ChanceKJ]

I had considered Cat5/6 initially. But solid core vs stranded I'd now take stranded for this kinda application any day. Bit more easy to manage, less risk of breaks inside the shielding. Personally I'd leave the network wire for what it's ment for, like facilitating this conversation.

[n3wt0n]

I had considered Cat5/6 initially. But solid core vs stranded I'd now take stranded for this kinda application any day. Bit more easy to manage, less risk of breaks inside the shielding. Personally I'd leave the network wire for what it's ment for, like facilitating this conversation.

Thanks for the reply ChanceKJ. I guess cat5 wouldn't be the best if you were planning on putting the controller board on the bottom of the panel box and then routing all the wires up to the top.
I was hoping to do it like that.  Any suggestions?

[Nephasth]

I guess cat5 wouldn't be the best if you were planning on putting the controller board on the bottom of the panel box and then routing all the wires up to the top.
I was hoping to do it like that.  Any suggestions?

22 gauge stranded black.

[ChanceKJ]

I guess cat5 wouldn't be the best if you were planning on putting the controller board on the bottom of the panel box and then routing all the wires up to the top.
I was hoping to do it like that.  Any suggestions?

22 gauge stranded black.

What he said.

If need be, grab yourself a silver and gold sharpie marker to make little tick marks on the wires if it helps you organize. Get yourself the right tools, do a little research (like my build thread if it helps), take your time and do it right. Plan your wire paths, practice crimping the ends, and go one wire at a time. Always ask yourself: is there a better way to do this? Before you commit to plugs, pins, wires, tools, etc. Neph's build is where I started.

If you want to build something amazing that will blow your friends away and make you have a sense of pride then take your time. In the end it will be worth it.  If you just wanna rush so you can have a half finished project with the ability to run a million games because you care more about playing then the journey then that's your call and your call alone.

If you need help we're here. As are our build threads.

[RandyT]

My personal opinion (like it matters) on wiring is the following, in order of importance:

• SAFETY
• Reliability
• Serviceability
• Aesthetics

Obviously, a tidy job will contribute to the first two.  But without some careful planning, it can make servicing or changing / upgrading a component, nearly as much work as the original wiring process.  Plan ahead

[yotsuya]

Yes, and I won't ever do it again. Too thin.

Thanks Yotsuya.  Was it too thin and difficult to work with or was it too thin and kept failing on you?  Also, was it stranded or solid?

A bit of both. Like the others have stated, get 22 GA Standed, and you're golden. I bought this for maximum flexibility:

http://www.amazon.com/Electronix-Express-Hook-Wire-Stranded/dp/B00B4ZQ3L0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420057371&sr=8-2&keywords=22+GA+Wire+box

[n3wt0n]

A bit of both. Like the others have stated, get 22 GA Standed, and you're golden. I bought this for maximum flexibility:

http://www.amazon.com/Electronix-Express-Hook-Wire-Stranded/dp/B00B4ZQ3L0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420057371&sr=8-2&keywords=22+GA+Wire+box

Thanks for the link Yotsuya. I will be going with 22 ga stranded as suggested by almost everyone.

My personal opinion (like it matters) on wiring is the following, in order of importance:

• SAFETY
• Reliability
• Serviceability
• Aesthetics

Obviously, a tidy job will contribute to the first two.  But without some careful planning, it can make servicing or changing / upgrading a component, nearly as much work as the original wiring process.  Plan ahead

Thanks Randy. I think I have wiring on the brain right now. It is all I have been thinking about. It is good to know that knowledgeable people are just a few clicks away.

What he said.

If need be, grab yourself a silver and gold sharpie marker to make little tick marks on the wires if it helps you organize. Get yourself the right tools, do a little research (like my build thread if it helps), take your time and do it right. Plan your wire paths, practice crimping the ends, and go one wire at a time. Always ask yourself: is there a better way to do this? Before you commit to plugs, pins, wires, tools, etc. Neph's build is where I started.

If you want to build something amazing that will blow your friends away and make you have a sense of pride then take your time. In the end it will be worth it.  If you just wanna rush so you can have a half finished project with the ability to run a million games because you care more about playing then the journey then that's your call and your call alone.

If you need help we're here. As are our build threads.

Thanks for your help ChanceKJ, I am sure the questions are just getting started.

[Nephasth]

A bit of both. Like the others have stated, get 22 GA Standed, and you're golden. I bought this for maximum flexibility:

http://www.amazon.com/Electronix-Express-Hook-Wire-Stranded/dp/B00B4ZQ3L0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420057371&sr=8-2&keywords=22+GA+Wire+box

I get the appeal of multiple colors, but honestly, you'll really only deal with your wiring once if you do it right the first time. It's been over 2 years since I made the harnesses in The Beast, and I haven't had to touch it since (removing the CPs and Marquee don't count since the harnesses were designed to disconnect with Molex Micro-fit connectors). So, to me $20 for 150' of wire seems expensive since I buy my wire 1000' at a time for around $35 shipped to my door. Yeah, I only get one color, but by paying attention while making the harnesses, color doesn't matter (most people run 1 wire at a time). Also, you can't rely on wire color with existing harnesses. Someone may have "repaired" the wiring and spliced in a different color wire. It's always best to consult a wiring diagram or pinout sheet. Attached is an early schematic for The Beast's wiring (changed since I used PACLED64s instead of LEDWizs), and the pinout sheet for my CP connectors.

[n3wt0n]

A bit of both. Like the others have stated, get 22 GA Standed, and you're golden. I bought this for maximum flexibility:

http://www.amazon.com/Electronix-Express-Hook-Wire-Stranded/dp/B00B4ZQ3L0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420057371&sr=8-2&keywords=22+GA+Wire+box

I get the appeal of multiple colors, but honestly, you'll really only deal with your wiring once if you do it right the first time. It's been over 2 years since I made the harnesses in The Beast, and I haven't had to touch it since (removing the CPs and Marquee don't count since the harnesses were designed to disconnect with Molex Micro-fit connectors). So, to me $20 for 150' of wire seems expensive since I buy my wire 1000' at a time for around $35 shipped to my door. Yeah, I only get one color, but by paying attention while making the harnesses, color doesn't matter (most people run 1 wire at a time). Also, you can't rely on wire color with existing harnesses. Someone may have "repaired" the wiring and spliced in a different color wire. It's always best to consult a wiring diagram or pinout sheet. Attached is an early schematic for The Beast's wiring (changed since I used PACLED64s instead of LEDWizs), and the pinout sheet for my CP connectors.

Thanks for the example pinouts and schematics Nephasth, I have never dealt with either of these before but I can see how they make a huge difference. In the pictures you supplied I can't quite make it out... do you have a Molex connector going to each control board plus a male/female hanging connection in line?

How do people usually connect the short bit of wires supplied with the LEDs with the wire that has been run from the controller? Can that be soldered together or do you usually use some sort of inline connector?

[yotsuya]

A bit of both. Like the others have stated, get 22 GA Standed, and you're golden. I bought this for maximum flexibility:

http://www.amazon.com/Electronix-Express-Hook-Wire-Stranded/dp/B00B4ZQ3L0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420057371&sr=8-2&keywords=22+GA+Wire+box

I get the appeal of multiple colors, but honestly, you'll really only deal with your wiring once if you do it right the first time. It's been over 2 years since I made the harnesses in The Beast, and I haven't had to touch it since (removing the CPs and Marquee don't count since the harnesses were designed to disconnect with Molex Micro-fit connectors). So, to me $20 for 150' of wire seems expensive since I buy my wire 1000' at a time for around $35 shipped to my door. Yeah, I only get one color, but by paying attention while making the harnesses, color doesn't matter (most people run 1 wire at a time). Also, you can't rely on wire color with existing harnesses. Someone may have "repaired" the wiring and spliced in a different color wire. It's always best to consult a wiring diagram or pinout sheet. Attached is an early schematic for The Beast's wiring (changed since I used PACLED64s instead of LEDWizs), and the pinout sheet for my CP connectors.

Good points. I like to use colored wires for the flexibility it allows with identification, but I also see the appeal in saving $$$.

[n3wt0n]

I have found some 36 pin molex panel mount receptacles that I like. They aren't too expensive but buying the Molex male and female .062 terminals seems pricey from the same place. When you were rolling your own did you use the actual Molex terminals or are off brands just as good? Molex ones are costing me .139 per terminal if I buy over 100 at a time. I need 160 so that is 22.25 for male and 22.25 for female + taxes and shipping. It comes to around $60 + taxes and whatever shipping costs. This is just for the connectors. I don't have molex crimping tool or pin removal tool.

If anyone has a good resource for these parts please let me know. I have already found frozenCPU has lots of these tools and 4 molex pins are $0.25 but shipping and taxes/duty will come into play since they are in the US and I am in Canada.

[yotsuya]

I've never bought them that big. I like to use the .093 connectors, but the biggest I've ever bought was 15. Usually, I'm using 12 pin. I get them in packages of two (both sides) with corresponding pins for like $4 each.

[PL1]

Have you looked at TwistyWrist?


Scott

[Nephasth]

If you're paying for Molex, you're doing it wrong.

[n3wt0n]

I've never bought them that big. I like to use the .093 connectors, but the biggest I've ever bought was 15. Usually, I'm using 12 pin. I get them in packages of two (both sides) with corresponding pins for like $4 each.

Thanks yotsuya. I can get it in a kit. They are $10 and I would need 4 of them. It may be the way to go if I cant find cheaper terminals.

Have you looked at TwistyWrist?

Scott

I took a quick look at twisted wrist. The plug prices are very close to what I have found in Canada. The terminal prices are cheaper but probably negated by the increase in shipping and duties and all that fun stuff. I appreciate the link and I will take a longer look at the site later.

If you're paying for Molex, you're doing it wrong.

Thanks Nephasth, I will look for aftermarket. Do you have a secret source for terminals and plugs? I would love to know where you would order from.

[Nephasth]

Thanks Nephasth, I will look for aftermarket. Do you have a secret source for terminals and plugs? I would love to know where you would order from.

Super secret. This sort of thing shouldn't be discussed in public.

But I have been accused of unloading train cars full of Molex off the rail spur in my backyard...

[yotsuya]

Thanks Nephasth, I will look for aftermarket. Do you have a secret source for terminals and plugs? I would love to know where you would order from.

Super secret. This sort of thing shouldn't be discussed in public.

But I have been accused of unloading train cars full of Molex off the rail spur in my backyard...

I know how YOU do it, bro. You just have a bigger pair than I do. 

[n3wt0n]

Thanks Nephasth, I will look for aftermarket. Do you have a secret source for terminals and plugs? I would love to know where you would order from.

Super secret. This sort of thing shouldn't be discussed in public.

But I have been accused of unloading train cars full of Molex off the rail spur in my backyard...

That's pretty bad ass. Should I skip the "what are you crimping your terminals with" question and assume you just use your teeth?