Input appreciated on control panel layout

[Frank Drebin]

So built OND's metropolis cab without having actually played a good portion of the MAME games available.  Didn't realize what a difference a 4 way joystick would make.

Some issues with my control panel:

Workmanship not the best
Wiring is a rats nest underneath
Not a fan of the illuminated buttons
No 4 way joystick
No spinner
No cupholders!

So I basically stole Kneivels control panel, and getting ready to order the buttons and parts.  Just looking for any input on the layout, number of buttons, spacing, etc.

[eds1275]

If anyone uses the "superman technique" they are going to break their fingers on that 4-way. As long as it's not you, then it's fine! I can't think of a better place to put it though, unless you ditch the spinner or put it on the front face of the control panel, move the trackball down as low as it can go, and put the 4 way where the spinner used to be.

[PL1]

You may also want to consider putting more distance between the ESC and P1 Start to avoid accidently exiting.

Do the same with the pause and P2 start to maintain symmetry.


Scott

[keilmillerjr]

Keep it simple. Pick either (2) 4-way or 8-way joysticks, or (2) joysticks that are switchable between 4-way and 8-way. Get what controls you will use most and make a great limited panel rather than an akward multi panel. Think, how can I slim the input count down?

Ps consider the novagem coin buttons and mount them in place of a coin door.

[bulbousbeard]

I completely agree with keilmillerjr. Keep it simple.

In general, my suggestion is to look at joysticks and buttons as the enemy. Every additional control you add to your control panel is going to make it look more goofy, more tacky, and less elegant. You should only put what you absolutely NEED on there.

Here's my recommended layout:


* You basically have a fighting game control panel, but there's no button for MK3/UMK3's run button. 4 buttons on the bottom row handles MK3/UMK3, and Neo Geo games. I think it's mandatory.

* You want to be able to press the start button without taking your left hand off the joystick. There are games that actually use the start button during gameplay. Having to criss cross your arms to press the start button is uncomfortable and sucky. It's not ergonomic. Even though this layout isn't symmetrical, it's simply better, more comfortable, and more functional.

* You don't want coin buttons on your control panel. Basically every game worth its weight in crap has a free play mode. Stinking up your control panel with buttons you should never need to press makes no sense. If you MUST have coin buttons, just get some of those push buttons that look like coin slots to put in the traditional coin area in the front of the cabinet. Don't mess up your control panel with unnecessary crap.

* Pause button on an arcade cabinet? Why? Arcade cabinets basically suck for any types of games that aren't, well, arcade games. You don't want to play Final Fantasy or any game you'd want to pause on an arcade cabinet.

* Do not try to combine fighting game layouts with 4-way sticks and trackballs. It simply does not work. If you look at the games in MAME, a lot of the trackball games used vertically oriented monitors, and basically every fighting game uses a horizontally oriented monitor. It wasn't meant to be. If you want a trackball, make a dedicated trackball cabinet with MULTIPLE trackballs so you can actually play multiplayer trackball games properly. 4-way sticks don't even really buy you that much in MAME anyway. You can always just disable diagonal inputs in MAME, which makes 8-way joysticks pretty decent in 4-way games.

* See how dumping the trackball gives you more space on the control panel for P1's left hand to rest and P2's right hand to rest on the ends of the control panel? You want to give people some breathing room.

Here's an image of another panel I saved from disaster to illustrate the point:

[Frank Drebin]

Interesting input.  Glad I posted.

Ideas I like:


1. Ditch the 4 way controller.  The location is not the best and too close to the screen.  Plus there are options (utlimarc) where you can switch from 8W to 4W from the top.

2. Move the Pause and ESC keys to prevent accidental keystrokes.  By removing the 4-way, I gain some real estate at the top where I could maybe group those two buttons together, and possibly backlight with a different colour.  ie) all buttons are illuminated blue but the esc and pause are illuminated smoke/grey.

3. Adding the NEO-GEO 7th button.  Just a no brainer, don't know why I didn't put it in on the original draft.  I currently have a 8 button layout and mostly use 2 button games and SFII.  But my horizons are continually expanding as far as games go.

4. Relocating the start buttons.  Good point about some games using those buttons during play.

What I don't like:


1. Removing the trackball and/or spinner.  I know less is more sometimes, but when you have a G-D arcade machine in your basement and it has the ability to play Golden TEE, you better have a G-D trackball!  The wow factor of having a golden tee machine in your basement is worth the cramping of the control panel.  Plus the trackball is already bought.  Plus the control panel is 32" wide so its not really all that cramped.  I've played on my current panel with trackball and 8 button config and no issues with the trackball.  The spinner is maybe an unnecessary luxury but I think it can be tastefully implemented at the top of the panel.

2. Ditching the coin buttons.  The cab is already built and in the basement.  Its there forever.  I'd have to take the jigsaw down there to install a coin door...dust...mess...etc.  I may consider hiding them under the panel but I think on the top is the easiest for guests.  I'm not sure what games have free play mode?  All the mame games I've played require credits to play.

3. Pause button.  I use it a lot.  Someone at the door, gotta get a beer, take a leak, etc.  Sometimes when I just want  to quit playing for a while. Great for guests too.

Anyhoo, great advice and much appreciated.  Input and criticism is invited as well.

[bulbousbeard]

If you press TAB in MAME and go into the Dip Switches, there is almost invariably a Free Play option in there you can enable so that you don't have to insert coins to play.

If games don't have dip switches, they probably have internal test menus that let you turn on free play. Pressing F2 in MAME will go to a game's service menu if it has them.

You really don't need coin buttons. You want to enable free play anyway.

Note: sometimes, you have to pick the right region of the game to get a free play option. Interestingly, the Europe/World version of Darkstalkers doesn't have a free play option in its menu, but the USA version does. Same thing with TMNT2. The USA version has no free play option, but the Asia version does.

And don't forget that you can bind multiple inputs to one button on your control panel. You can always just set up MAME so that pressing the start button both presses start and inserts a coin. That will handle the 5 or so games that might not have a free play option.

[Frank Drebin]

^^ I Did not know that.

 

[PL1]

Another viewpoint to consider.

As mentioned already, there are a number of cases where Free Play isn't a good idea.

Some games will fail to run their attract modes in free play, just sitting on the title screen, or sometimes starting the game over and over again. (OutRun for example)
Some games are buggy and freeplay will actually cause the game to glitch or crash - arcades generally weren't designed to be operated on 'free play' so manufacturers didn't always test it extensively. (Cookie & Bibi 3 for example)
Other games link the Free Play mode to other cheats, because it was designed for developers.
and plenty of games simply don't have a freeplay mode.

Either way, there's no universal way to set the option, different games often have different requirements (some require both coin slots set to freeplay with the dipswitches, others have dedicated free play dipswitches, more recent titles require freeplay to be enabled in the game service mode where it gets stored in backup ram)  there's simply no universal way to do it, because games don't act in identical ways, and for the service mode ones MAME doesn't even have knowledge of where the setting is stored because it's just another variable in RAM like any other part of the running game rather than a hardware switch.

Bottom line: Always test the desired gamelist to see if there are any games that will not work with whatever approach you decide to use on a build.   


Scott

[bulbousbeard]

Haze tends to be a bit unjustifiably doom and gloom. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that no American or Japanese made, high profile, quality game (ie. the ones you actually want to play) has a buggy free play implementation.

I mean, Cookie & Bibi 3? Give me a break. Semicom was basically a bootlegger. Their games are buggy IN GENERAL.

In any case, another thing I wanted to point out is this: you've got a 6 button+ per play control panel, right? Well, every 6 button game I can think of has free play. What that means is that the only games that don't have free play options are probably 2-4 buttons, so you have superfluous buttons left over to map to the coin button for those games anyway. There really is no point in dedicated coin buttons for a control panel that's got 6 buttons+ per player.

[Xiaou2]

A true restricted 4way is unmatched in feel and performance.   Yeah, you could paint your room with a toothbrush...  but it wouldnt be as nice as a roller or full 4"  brush.

 Stick Stacking:   By using a slight diagonal, you can stack the sticks and not have them interfere with each other.  Either stick will be easily reachable and playable.  In this method, you reduce the depth you have to reach into the panel..  which would cause a lot of strain.   Also, you wont have to rest your arms on top of any buttons or other controllers while using the alternate stick.

 Trackball - You want at least 1 foot diameter of clear space for good safe trackball play.   Low height controls such as buttons and spinners can sit a bit within that diameter.. because you tent to swing upwards after rolling the ball.   However... higher controllers, such as Joysticks.. can pose a potential broken finger... if they are too close to the trackball.   Too many people want to center the trackball due to symmetry..  rather than functionality.   By moving the trackball slightly to the left, nearest player 1s buttons.. it keeps it further away from player 2s finger-cracking joystick handle.

 Id also recommend making at least one of the buttons a true 80s arcade leaf-switch assembly.   This can be used for rapidfire classics... such as Asteroids Deluxe, Satans Hollow, Joust, Halleys Comet, and many more.  (use the 'feather' technique, so as not to bottom-out the button.  This yields lighting fast responses that microswitchs are not capable of)

 Edit:

 Also, I recommend you do not Curve button layouts.  Many fighter fans and fellow builders,  have, and continue to  regret this decision.  It might only be semi-acceptable with Convex buttons.  I recommend using the classic standard concave buttons, with a straight grid layout.  Use almost zero space between them (leave just enough space to turn the button nuts).   Curved layouts often results in a person losing track of where they are pressing.  Often accidentally pressing the sides of the buttons, rather than the center... if they even hit the correct button at all.

[Frank Drebin]

thank you so much.  Glad you posted that.  Back to the drawing board.  Its all good at this stage.

[Frank Drebin]

Questions about the spinner location:

I put it above the buttons to give more room for the trackball.  Actually just got golden tee/trackball working and the more space the better.  I don't think reaching above the buttons is a big deal?  Also do I need fire buttons on the right of the spinner or can I use the spinner with my right hand and use the P1 fire buttons?

[yotsuya]

Questions about the spinner location:

I put it above the buttons to give more room for the trackball.  Actually just got golden tee/trackball working and the more space the better.  I don't think reaching above the buttons is a big deal?  Also do I need fire buttons on the right of the spinner or can I use the spinner with my right hand and use the P1 fire buttons?

^^^^ This. That's how Tempest is laid out.