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Author Topic: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers  (Read 4612 times)

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capitaineflam25

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Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« on: November 09, 2014, 05:24:48 am »
Hi,

i'm using CRT Emu drivers for Win7 x64 with a Radeon HD4850.

640x480@30i is nice on Windows desktop or GroovyMame, but with some third party emus i'm facing a split screen issue when they switch to 640x480 :

It seems that thoses emu (Yabause, ePSXe, Dolphin) are invoking a no 15khz progressive mode through OpenGl.

Is there any solution for that, like a way to remove native 640x480@60 from Windows ? Switching to another Radeon HD 4xxx would help ?

Regards
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 10:09:34 am by capitaineflam25 »

Calamity

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Re: 15Khz 640x480 split screen issue
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2014, 09:40:44 am »
Hi capitaineflam25,

(please don't create multiple posts for the same issue)

Yes, the hight end (HD 48xx) cards have this problem. I'm curious however about why once you get the monitor detected it doesn't show the whole mode list. Could you post a log from GroovyMAME (whatever game) so I can see how your setup is? Have you tried running VMMaker? etc.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

capitaineflam25

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Re: 15Khz 640x480 split screen issue
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2014, 10:26:58 am »
Thanks a lot for you answer.

(please don't create multiple posts for the same issue)

Sorry for the mess  :-[
Are you talking about my post here, i thought that was 2 differents issues, if not i will edit it to clean it.

Yes, the hight end (HD 48xx) cards have this problem. I'm curious however about why once you get the monitor detected it doesn't show the whole mode list. Could you post a log from GroovyMAME (whatever game) so I can see how your setup is? Have you tried running VMMaker? etc.

Please find attached the result of a "mame kof95 -verbose > log.txt"

You'll notice that i've enabled "super resolutions" and that works very well.

When booting with LCD attached first and then switching to the CRT, all custom res set with VMMaker works perfectly when invoked by Gmame or ArcadeOSD.

The issue seems to be linked with OpenGL, when it is using 640x480 it seems that it is picking a wrong modeline.

Regards

Calamity

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Re: 15Khz 640x480 split screen issue
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2014, 12:46:29 pm »
Sorry for the mess  :-[
Are you talking about my post here, i thought that was 2 differents issues, if not i will edit it to clean it.

Nevermind. From my point of view it's just one new user with a certain card and monitor so it's easier to troubleshoot if you just created a thread with all your questions in it, and your card model on the topic.

The issue you were seeing is just the typical detection issue. Usually switching to the other output fixes it. It's only in some high end cards that you need to force the detection with resistors. It's nothing to do with non-EDID displays, it's a load detection issue.

Quote
You'll notice that i've enabled "super resolutions" and that works very well.

When booting with LCD attached first and then switching to the CRT, all custom res set with VMMaker works perfectly when invoked by Gmame or ArcadeOSD.

The issue seems to be linked with OpenGL, when it is using 640x480 it seems that it is picking a wrong modeline.

Yeah your setup looks fine. But the interesting log is the one when not booting with an LCD. That's when I'd like to see what GM is reading to be able to diagnose.

Maybe the fact that you're booting with an LCD is what makes the 640x480 31kHz stay available. In my system I wouldn't see that resolution selectable in ArcadeOSD.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

capitaineflam25

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Re: 15Khz 640x480 split screen issue
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2014, 03:07:38 am »
Here is the log when booting straight with CRT attached.

Regards

Calamity

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Re: 15Khz 640x480 split screen issue
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2014, 04:34:37 am »
Yes, that's what I suspected. The user Sledge has the same card as you, and had the same issue. He finally could fix it if I remind right, so contact him. I think you should keep using the current output, and the key is to untick "hide modes not supported by this monitor" in the display properties dialog->advanced. If you check your logs, no interlaced modes are shown. This is the problem. The "super" resolutions are missing too. Hopefully doing this will bring them back.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

capitaineflam25

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emu
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2014, 08:09:30 am »
Thanks, i'll get in touch with him

I've done some new tests after doing a fresh Windows 7 SP1 reinstall without any updates.

The situation has improved :

Using Left DVI Port:
  • Windows still need a screen (or resistors on VGA color line) when starting up to allow the graphic card to display something (if not -> the CRT screen is black after windows has loaded)
  • GroovyMame runs fine with super resolutions
  • And the 640x480 split screen issue with third party software has gone !!!!

Using Right DVI Port:
  • I can boot directly in 15Khz with only the CRT attached if i uncheck"Hide unsupported resolutions" on Windows screen properties -> no LCD required at all !
  • GroovyMame runs fine with super resolutions Edit: my test was wrong, it doesn't work.
  • But 640x480 are in 31Khz when invoked from programs other than GroovyMame (ex. Dolphin emu when requiring 640x480 through OpenGL)
    The screen is not splitted, but it's out of sync.

Would it make sense forcing refresh rate of this 640x480 mode through a modified Atom15 ? (i'm open to tests, even if i brick the card...)

Regards
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 12:54:09 pm by capitaineflam25 »

Calamity

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emu
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2014, 10:58:52 am »
Would it make sense forcing refresh rate of this 640x480 mode through a modified Atom15 ? (i'm open to tests, even if i brick the card...)

No, that wouldn't work, bios has nothing to do here.

I'd say the right DVI is the one to use. Regarding opengl games, is there any way to select a different resolution (not-640x480) for those games. I mean a custom one like 648x480 which doesn't match any of the system's default ones, added to ReslList.

Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

capitaineflam25

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2014, 01:15:16 pm »
The 648x480 is a clever idea, it works with some emus, not all, but that's a good step forward.

Sega Supermodel, for instance, is trying to stick to a supported resolution, so it fallback to 640x480p, but i successfully tested a quick and dirty solution for that.
I'm launching the emu in 640x480 windowed mode and then center the window on the screen with a AHK script like this :
Code: [Select]
WinMove, Supermodel, ,-2, -25In appearance there is no difference with fullscreen mode !

But there is still a big issue : i was mistaking when i saying that GMame was ok when using the right DVI output, my test was wrong (Gmame was not well configured when i reinstalled my OS)

It crashes, see attached "log3.txt"

Calamity

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2014, 01:20:44 pm »
You'll need to disable the "lock_unsupported_modes" option in mame.ini and probably switch to ddraw.
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

capitaineflam25

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2014, 02:58:05 pm »
Calamity, you rock, it works !  :applaud:

So this Radeon is not the best plug and play cards for 15Khz but with some tuning it can make the deal.

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2014, 03:41:43 pm »
Glad to see it worked.

For future reference, it would be nice that you posted a picture of your card marking the proper dvi output to use (you don't need to take the card out of your cab, just grab the picture from google).

So to summarize, is this all what needs to be done?:

- Use the right output.
- Untick "Hide unsupported resolutions" in Screen properties.
- Select "lock_unsupported_modes 0" and "video ddraw" in mame.ini
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

capitaineflam25

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 06:11:05 am »
So to summarize, is this all what needs to be done?:

- Use the right output.
- Untick "Hide unsupported resolutions" in Screen properties.
- Select "lock_unsupported_modes 0" and "video ddraw" in mame.ini

That's correct, that's the only things you need to enjoy GroovyMame.
By the way remember, to always select "No" for "Lock unsupported modes" when testing your res with Arcade OSD.
(It would be nice if ArcadeOSD would remember this option one day  ;D)

Here is the exact Card i'm using: Gainward Radeon HD4850 Golden Sample 1Go, note that Left DVI and Right DVI are refering to the following picture in my posts, so it's reversed when the card is on a "tower" PC.

For other 3D emus it's a bit tricky to make them work in 640x480 with this card :
  • Dolphin: automatically select a progressive mode with OpenGL, solution is to use DirectX display
  • ePSXe: automatically select progressive mode with OpenGL, but is able to use a super resolution like 2560x480 if forced in the ini file
  • Nebula Model 2: crashes when going fullscreen, a workaround is to use a fake fullscreen mode with AHK
  • Sega SuperModel: Always select a progressive mode, a workaround is to use a fake fullscreen mode with AHK
  • Yabause: Always select a progressive mode, seems to work when forcing 648x480i in the ini file
  • PCSX2: Good, it stays with the current desktop interlaced mode
  • Demul: Good, it stays with the current desktop interlaced mode



« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 06:15:02 am by capitaineflam25 »

Calamity

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 06:42:45 am »
Thanks!
Important note: posts reporting GM issues without a log will be IGNORED.
Steps to create a log:
 - From command line, run: groovymame.exe -v romname >romname.txt
 - Attach resulting romname.txt file to your post, instead or pasting it.

CRT Emudriver, VMMaker & Arcade OSD downloads, documentation and discussion:  Eiusdemmodi

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 12:33:25 pm »
Here is the exact Card i'm using: Gainward Radeon HD4850 Golden Sample 1Go, note that Left DVI and Right DVI are refering to the following picture in my posts, so it's reversed when the card is on a "tower" PC.

I think a better way to refer to the ports on most cards is Top and Bottom.  Regardless of card orientation in your case, the bottom of the card is the one with the connector that plugs into the motherboard.  Most of the time, the bottom port is the primary port on the card, but I have seen some exceptions.

Hantarex Polo 15KHz
Sapphire Radeon HD 7750 2GB (GCN)
GroovyMAME 0.197.017h_d3d9ex
CRT Emudriver & CRT Tools 2.0 beta 13 (Crimson 16.2.1 for GCN cards)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel Core i7-4790K @ 4.8GHz
ASUS Z87M-PLUS Motherboard

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2014, 06:08:18 pm »
i have same problems with you on a hd4890.

mame work on hyperspin in ddraw not in d3d
and many problem with znesw and daphne with resolutions with 640x480, i think in a build in a new hdd with windows xp, windows 7 have a lot problems with this card for me

capitaineflam25

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Re: Radeon HD 4850 with CRT Emudrivers
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2014, 04:22:14 am »
If you want to keep up with Windows 7, give a try to BizHawk as a great alternative to Zsnes.
It's a very mature and accurate emu and it works perfectly with my HD8450 and CRT Emu.

Regards
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 05:41:18 am by capitaineflam25 »