New Joystick - <insert name here>

[yotsuya]

I meant what grommet were you going to use,  smart-ass.

I'd start with a Kickstarter. That  you can gauge interest and build capital without being out anything up front.  Also, shoot some video.  I want to see it in action.

[jimmer]

For my prototypes I'm using off the shelf vibration mounts, same external size as a wico grommet.

I'll need to get some custom made if I go with wico size for the American stick. That was the plan but now it doesn't sound so clever. It would be way easier to use just one grommet size. And if I'm selling a Wico replacement,  I don't really want to be helping people refurbish their Wicos!

[Nocturnaloner]

Hey jimmer, will this project ever come back to life?

[jimmer]

Here's the project update:

I went around in circles on the design, finally getting bored and deciding on a 2part swap handle concept that doesn't involve removing clips or springs (ie nothing to drop or lose). This was influenced by being very into Defender and Robotron I wanted to build a stick that could make an acceptable (to me) 2 stick Multi-williams panel.

I built various prototypes, they worked.

Then I lost impetus for several reasons. 1. Dominux came out, which answered the need for a decent grommet leaf stick (and on price I can't compete in USA but for Europe mine would cost about the same)   2. I've come down firmly on swap panels as the best solution for different controls (with my panel system it's easier to swap the panel than swap a restrictor and handle).  3. I've been woriking on other things. 4. Sourcing nice balltops in low numbers is hard, and with this design I really need to supply solid handles (the alternative is to let the user to screw and glue his own ball or bat to the shaft)  5. I have a slight worry about the screw together handle because it's not fail safe, if you don't do it up tight enough it could unscrew in use (that said, my left hand Robo stick hasn't been touched for a year now and I don't remember doing it up particularly tight)  If you were about to do a Robotron world record attempt you could just put some threadlock on it and do it up a bit tighter than normal.

Here's a few photos. I made a round version for the optical in honour of the p360.  Not shown is an option with a boss and little dust washer that makes it very easy to do an underpanel washer in wood panel.

[paigeoliver]

The market wants one thing.

Wico joysticks.

Just build wicos and you will be swimming in orders. All their patents expired years ago.

Get an NOS Wico leaf stick and copy it.
Then get an wico microswitch stick and copy the parts that vary from the leaf one.

Sell wicos and the world will beat a path to your door. Make them exactly the same, from the handle to the grommet to switches to the base. If it isn't an exact copy then the real game restorers aren't going to buy them and they are a way larger market than the mame guys. (Mame guys average like 1.5 machines each, real game collectors are most commonly around 20 games).

[Nocturnaloner]

Those look great, and it'd be a shame if they never got beyond prototypes, but economic reality is what it is.  paigeoliver is dead on about the Wico repros.  The guy who is making accurate grommet repros is not running out of orders any time soon, and used leaf sticks are selling on ebay for the same prices as the Dominux8, or more.

[emphatic]

Never seen this thread before!


Posted from my portable device using Tapatalk

[jimmer]

Repro wico grommets weren't widely/cheaply available when I started this project. If they were I might have built something wico compatible. But anyway, I wanted to add something wico didn't have - the swappable restrictor. Also I wanted to be able to configure a smaller overall package than the wico to suit fightsticks.

I will have a think about making a base that takes the wico grommet and handle (Repro handles were available last time I looked) But it wouldn't be a molded base that accepts molded switches (which aren't available). Who would buy this? Do the restrictors wear out in non-arcade use? I can see the diamonds wearing slowly out of shape but how many users would be bothered by that?

I could make new top parts of the base (the grommmet holder/gate) rather than the switch holder, but they wouldn't have metal inserts for the gate.

[dezmond]

For switching the stick out, I would like to see the C-Clip gone and use a push and twist lock of some sorts.

Would make life a lot easier if you wanted to have a shorter or longer shaft.

Just a thought 

[Nocturnaloner]

I will have a think about making a base that takes the wico grommet and handle (Repro handles were available last time I looked) But it wouldn't be a molded base that accepts molded switches (which aren't available). Who would buy this?

People interested in restoring classic arcade games would buy it, in addition to people who want an authentic classic feel in their MAME cabinets.  Restorationists in particular, want accurate reproductions.  Understandably, you want to create something new, that's where the fun is, but accurate repros would have a larger market.

Do the restrictors wear out in non-arcade use? I can see the diamonds wearing slowly out of shape but how many users would be bothered by that?

People are still using 30-40 year old restrictors to this day.  If anything, the fact that they were designed for arcade use makes them more than durable enough for hobbyist use.

[jimmer]

People interested in restoring classic arcade games would buy it, in addition to people who want an authentic classic feel in their MAME cabinets.  Restorationists in particular, want accurate reproductions.  Understandably, you want to create something new, that's where the fun is, but accurate repros would have a larger market.

I can already make something that looks and feels like a wico from above the panel, so what does it matter what it looks like below? That's not a question for you in particular, it's more a question for everyone that would by a repro wico.

You have got me thinking again. What I will do is make some wico intechangeable parts and see what people think of them. The grommet holder piece will look similar to wico, the switch holder module will look like what I've made before. Handles are available, but I could source them myself if it suits. Grommets are available.

[Xiaou2]

Im with Paige on this one.

 WICO Repros are highly desired.   Both for Classic Restoration, as well as use in Authentic Emulation machines  (especially Robotron, arguably one of the best games ever made).

 While people with older Wico sticks might be able to restore them with offered parts...  thats not really a bad thing.   Realistically, you would be making profit off of each part.  It might actually be more profitable that way.

 But either way... most older wicos will need at very least.. all leafs replaced, a new grommet, and a new handle.   The balltops are usually scratched up... and shafts usually corroded.   Grommets may be stiff / cracking..  and the leafs springs have fatigued too much.   All that pretty much leaves.. is the Base shell.

 While most wico 8ways do fairly well without too much wear on the top edge of the base... the 4ways did seems to wear out after some years.   IMO,  the Bally Midway Pacman sticks were superior for 4way operation.   They have at least one replaceable restrictor part... and the thick steel top restrictor takes a very long time, in an busy arcade, for any wear to come into play.   If you remake this stick and its parts... you can sell its parts to restore the other sticks that used them... such as the Trigger sticks (seen on Tron, Discs of Tron, Satans Hollow, and many more classics).

 I think you should not really concern yourself with "fight-sticks"...  because Leafs are not really good in fighting game applications.  And if you try to remedy this using different mechanical means... then it ruins the classic wico feel that we are looking for.

 There are multi-thousands of classic arcade machines in basements and bar-cades all over the world...  and sadly, many are fitted with semi-working, destroyed, or sub-standard replacement sticks.

 Add to this the multi-thousands of Emulation fans... whom also want to play classics with the Authentic feel that they Remember and Love (as well as those new to this... and still wish to have accurate feel / control)...  and you would have so many orders that you might have trouble keeping up with them.

 Wicos are Proven with long Lasting quality, and outstanding feel.    No other stick feels and reacts like a true Wico.   And any stick that looks similar.. will be immediately questioned with extreme prejudice.   Rightly so.   Why mess with near perfection?  People know what they really want... and are begging, pleading, and very willing... to pay for it.

 I do also vaguely remember the Wico balltop microswitch version that Paige pointed out... as being really nice too  (I used to manage an Arcade, and saw / repaired pretty much every controller made).  Sadly, I never got to pick one up for myself... so Im just going by a 18? year old memory.   I recall they were far more durable than the Happs sticks of the time.  They also felt much better, due to the rubber grommet.  I also loved the balltop grip (and look) for most games.   I wouldnt use them for Robotron, but I think they might be a nice replacement for the happ comps (for fighters).

 Anyways,  I think its time we kickstarted accurate Repos of classic controllers .. and maybe other things too...

[dmckean]

I agree with X2. I haven't used any other stick that felt and behaved quite like a WICO.

[Cornchip]

 If you could find NOS Wico's (leaf and micro sw), what do you figure they'd be worth?. Might help define a price point to see the viability in a project like this.

[Nocturnaloner]

If you could find NOS Wico's (leaf and micro sw), what do you figure they'd be worth?. Might help define a price point to see the viability in a project like this.

Complete NOS joysticks (and I don't know if they were ever packaged that way, as a unit with base, grommet, shaft, and switches) would see competitive bidding these days.  With used joysticks going for 50 and up, complete NOS sticks could fetch $100 and up.  That's for leaf switch sticks.  Microswitch would be lower.

[Nocturnaloner]

I can already make something that looks and feels like a wico from above the panel, so what does it matter what it looks like below? That's not a question for you in particular, it's more a question for everyone that would by a repro wico.

Have you ever restored a classic car?  The mindset here is very similar.  People who are restoring arcade machines would like them to be 'factory correct'.  That means that everything, inside and out, looks and functions like the original.  The only exception to that might be that if you made the base pieces with their built in restrictors out of a longer wearing modern material that otherwise looked the same, that would be great.

[jimmer]

I guessed that it was only likely to be the diamond that wore noticeably, if a circle gate grows a bit no-ones going to notice.

I'm going to start by making a leaf module and an optical module that are direct replacements for the wico leaf switch module (the optical will come with a new black actuator but it'll be the same size as the wico part).  I've already sketched them, if nothing gets in the way I should be able to get them cut and tested this weekend.

[Nocturnaloner]

I guessed that it was only likely to be the diamond that wore noticeably, if a circle gate grows a bit no-ones going to notice.

I'm going to start by making a leaf module and an optical module that are direct replacements for the wico leaf switch module (the optical will come with a new black actuator but it'll be the same size as the wico part).  I've already sketched them, if nothing gets in the way I should be able to get them cut and tested this weekend.

I don't think you'll have any problems finding volunteers to help you test those.  I'll even pay for shipping.