Outsourced Artwork through Elance

[yotsuya]

I think another real point that needs to be made is that when art is ripped off, there is often a real artist who could have been paid for their art. Most Mame games are from companies that no longer exist, and frankly the games would no longer exist either if they were not preserved by the mame developers. There is nobody tangible to pay for these games. (we also get upset with anyone who tries to sell roms)

While they might be illegal to use roms in a technical sense, to us it is often very justified because of all the preservation done, and it took our support to save ten thousands games that would have been otherwise lost. This is spirit of the law vs letter of the law stuff.

Excellent point. You can actually buy that Dragonslayer print off Tom Wood's site. He's still actively selling that artwork he created.

[Malenko]

So if you don't have a version of photoshop or similar editing software, your options are to use the original pictures EXACTLY as the creator created them, or to hire someone to create brand new from scratch art for you?  But if you have photoshop, you can now alter anyone's work (like your NHL Open Ice cab) as long as it's for personal use?

Seems to be an arbitrary delineation.  Can't I pay someone to use photoshop under my direction?  I'm not paying for the artwork, necessarily, I'm paying for the hours it takes to manipulate it, as opposed to doing it myself.  To make this clear, the Elancer was 100% clear that she was just photoshopping images for me (I actually sent her several images that I liked for her to use as a guide) and was not the creator of any of the art.  So, I can do it myself, but if I lack the software I'm out of luck? 

As for my 0% comment, I'm glad to hear that some people do own the software licences for all the games they play.  I'd have thought that sending a letter to Capcom for their explicit permission would have been a giant pain in the butt (for those using ROMs instead of original PCBs). 

Q. Is it legal to download ROMs for a game when I own the PCB?
A. This is unclear and depends on where you live. In most cases you would need to obtain permission from the original manufacturer to do so.

OK, allow me to retort
You dont need photoshop, there are a ton of free image editors out there (stressing free incase you say you cant afford them) like Gimp, hell even MSPaint can resize and crop images. The fact you think I altered the Open Ice marquee, and that I didnt recreate it, makes me think you just glossed over my reply.  I recreated the art work for restoration purposes.Makes it totally legit. If someone wants to alter it for their personal cab, I believe they are within their rights to use it, so long as they dont attempt to  sell the art to others.  Is the artist you hired even using a legit legal paid version of Photoshop? Yes, I have photoshop (actually the entire Creative Cloud Suite) and it aint cheap. Im sure Tom Wood is probably still selling that are you stole, Midway not only doesnt exist, but they sure aint selling NHL Open Ice marquees anymore.

Vigo already hit the nail on the head about  paying for shipping not the cocaine, and he explained it much better than I could have. You circled back to the software, which was already addressed.

Contacting Capcom literally has NOTHING to do with the software example I cited. Bonnie's cab uses a paid version PopCaps Windows games on a touch screen PC and steam games with controller support, on a cab with scratch made and GPL art that wasnt made for profit and wont ever be sold for profit. My MAME cab isnt done, so no games are playable......

Or do you mean I should contact WB/Neather Realm Studios to see if its OK I play my actual MKII arcade game with an actual MKII PCB in my garage?  Theres tons of grey area when it comes to what you can and cant play (in MAME), I look at it in more of a moral sense than a legal one.  If I bought Final Fight for SNES, I dont feel bad about playing it in MAME (I also have it for Sega CD and on XBOX Live) same goes for Mortal Kombat II, if I have the actual arcade machine right next to my MAME cab and I feel like trying it out in MAME, I think its perfectly acceptable.

[Rick]

ITT: No Lawyers.

[Generic Eric]

[Slugworth]

Midway may not exist, but I Guarantee you someone still owns every single one of their copyrights. And would love to be paid for their use.  Just because it's a Corporation that's being ripped off instead of an artist doesn't make it any different.

Now, the example you gave of games purchased through steam is different (and that whole
Cocktail can you linked), but the vast majority of MaMe users I've seen use pirated ROMS.  Just because it's rationalized, doesn't make it different.  Copyright infringement is copyright infringement, regardless of the medium. 

Now I'm not judging, as I plan on playing these same games on my cab once it's finished.  Just pointing out that if folks are going to get on their high horse, they better be careful not to fall off.  It's a slippery slope once you claim to be following the spirit of the law.

[Malenko]

Ugh, editing my post for brevity.

Recreation not for profit isnt the same as editing for profit. Stop comparing the 2.
A collection of anecdotes is not data.

You are stealing from an artist, stop trying to justify it by saying people play MAME illegally.

[Vigo]

Midway may not exist, but I Guarantee you someone still owns every single one of their copyrights. And would love to be paid for their use.  Just because it's a Corporation that's being ripped off instead of an artist doesn't make it any different.

Send me the link where I can pay for the mame romset that makes it all legal on my end. I am curious as to where I can pay the thousands of copyright holders all over the world for use of their wonderful and obscure games that they were lucky enough to have someone else preserve for them for free.

[Slugworth]

Midway may not exist, but I Guarantee you someone still owns every single one of their copyrights. And would love to be paid for their use.  Just because it's a Corporation that's being ripped off instead of an artist doesn't make it any different.

Send me the link where I can pay for the mame romset that makes it all legal on my end. I am curious as to where I can pay the thousands of copyright holders all over the world for use of their wonderful and obscure games that they were lucky enough to have someone else preserve for them for free.

You can still buy their games in the 2nd hand market.  By downloading them illegally you are taking money away from the 2nd hand stores that make a legitimate living by buying the legal licenses to the games and reselling them.  Further, I know Capcom (at least) has released a "coin ops classics" compilation that would
Give you rom rights to the games.

I really don't care, just trying to point out the hypocrisy to a community that wouldn't exist except for the infringement of copyright laws they deride others for breaking.

[Hoopz]

Is this argument this decades equivalent of USB v. PS/2?

 

[yotsuya]

I really don't care, just trying to point out the hypocrisy to a community that wouldn't exist except for the infringement of copyright laws they deride others for breaking.

Why do you keep bringing up ROMS? The initial issue wasn't ROMs, it wasn't even the legality of your "artwork", it was whether or not using a service like Elance is just as good as hiring a real artist.

[Vigo]

You can still buy their games in the 2nd hand market.  By downloading them illegally you are taking money away from the 2nd hand stores that make a legitimate living by buying the legal licenses to the games and reselling them.  Further, I know Capcom (at least) has released a "coin ops classics" compilation that would
Give you rom rights to the games.

For the record, having capcom coin op classics, midway treasures, or any other compilation doesn't make it any more legal to own the roms for the games on that disc. It is also not more legal if you own the actual arcade machine, because you did not backup that rom up yourself, and copyright law looks at it as an entirely different product if the source is different.

A basic example: CBS and NBC both film a press conference and each network sets up a camera side by side filming the same thing from the same angle. CBS and NBC both have rights to their own footage, but not to each others, even if it looks identical. The same goes with roms and owning it on another console. RIAA made sure of that one was clarified when people downloaded music they already owned on cassette/CD/vinyl.

[Malenko]

ok , so I reached out to Tom Wood, he replied within an hour of me emailing him.

Hi Malenko,
  Thanks for alerting me to this issue. This is unfortunately a common
occurrence in the art world. I do not blame "Slugworth" for wanting to
decorate his cabinet as cheaply as possible, or even the girl who
downloaded my art to complete her $40.00 job. Really? $40
for dragging a jpeg to you desktop? Cudos, photoshop girl!  Anyway,
Slugworth and even Elance-photoshop girl could have just asked
permission and explained the situation. I would have let them do it.

To set a few things straight, they can use copyrighted imagery for
personal uses. The elance girl sold the service of providing dragon
imagery that she did not own, which is absolutely illegal. That said,
I will not bring in my lawyer and licensing agent in over $40.
Slugworth is fine unless he tries in any way to profit from the sale
of the cabinet adorned with artwork he does not own.

 I was touched to see the fierce discussion of you and others who
understand the pains taken to create such pieces.

Thanks so much.
Sincerely,
Tom Wood

So yeah, you could step off your high horse if you would have just emailed the guy. I for one will be buying some art from him as Xmas gifts for some friends to support him and thank him for such a swift and honest reply.  2 things to take away from all this; never under estimate the power of communication and what the elance chick did was illegal.

[BadMouth]