Outsourced Artwork through Elance

[Slugworth]

Just wanted to share a quick experience.  Last week I decided to outsource my artwork needs (this is my first cabinet and I have almost zero handy man skills, and quite possibly even fewer artistic skills) on Elance after I realized custom work offered through these forums way way out of my budget.

I basically posted an add describing what I was looking for (kind of a D&D theme) and that I'd need 3 pieces created -- side art (i wanted a 12" circle), marquee, and control panel.  I also provided the measurements and the CP template I was going to use (which I borrowed from one of TheShaner's threads... which I think he borrowed from Knievel), and said I was willing to pay $40 for it.  I received 3 or 4 proposals and chose one of them to work with.

I'm very happy with the work and would recommend this process for anyone who needs help / lacks photoshop skills, but doesn't want to break the bank.  We went back and forth on a few of the images to get them the way I wanted, and I'm very happy with the results.... especially at this price!

Now, I just need to get some buttons and get going!  Anyone have some advice on button / molding colors?  I was thinking black, but that's terribly unexciting.  Any thoughts?

[Generic Eric]

You should look into Nepsath's Two headed beast.  Check out his LED lit buttons & learn about LED blinky.

No conventional color scheme is going to look right with those buttons, but if you use LED blinky and translucent buttons, the impact when the machine is not in play will no distract from your artwork.

Just to be clear, I think that art is cool. 

[Rick]

I also provided the measurements and the CP template I was going to use (which I borrowed from one of TheShaner's threads... which I think he borrowed from Knievel), and said I was willing to pay $40 for it.  I received 3 or 4 proposals and chose one of them to work with.

I used CrowdSPRING for my logo, and paid scads more than that. Kudos on using E-Lance. Definitely a smart choice! I've used them for a few other projects over the past couple of years. Hell, I may use them NOW for some other ideas I have for my cabs!

Looking AMAZING, btw!!!

[Xiaou2]

Two of the images look decent,   but that circular sideart looks dreadful.  It looks like someone took a stock oil painting,  then did a real hack job using photoshop to modify it.

 The flames look fake.  Theres no lighting from the flame inside his mouth, let alone on his skin, in the fog, and the ground.  Theres hintsvat color in the background. .. but theres no rhyme or reason for it.. not done well at all.   The dragonhead has been photoshop 'burned' too much, and in an odd manor.  The fog is too overkill... and it has no cloud like volume to it.  Objects in the background seem cut and pasted,  but in a way thats flat and incomprehensible.  And the dragons head is not one bit foggy,  yet evgerything else is... which looks odd too.  Had they been more gradual with the fog level,  it could have allowed more visibility of yhr body details too..  and wouldnt have looked liked someone wiped a tiny window out for the head to pop through.

 If you like it, thats what matters...  but to me...  it appears that it is not a real artist that you paid.  But merely an amateur photoshop hack... that took an artists works, and tweaked them in a very poor manor.


 

[Xiaou2]

Here's a better example of a real painted image thats shaded properly.

[DeLuSioNal29]

I disagree.  I think the artwork is perfect, once you get the logos in there.  Looking forward to seeing the final product!

D

[Slugworth]

 If you like it, thats what matters...  but to me...  it appears that it is not a real artist that you paid.  But merely an amateur photoshop hack... that took an artists works, and tweaked them in a very poor manor.

Of course it's not a "real artist" that I paid... It was $40 for all three pieces and I got it 2 days after I created my post.  I may or may not use them all.... I love the CP and the marquee.  I like the side art fine but agree it's not done as well as the other two pieces.

Ultimately I just wanted to let people know Elance is a great resource and you can get good work done for a fraction of what a "real artist" would charge you.  I realize it's not for everyone, but i'd personally much rather drop $40 on the art and put some extra money onto the functionality if my cab than to splurge on some art (that isn't even necessarily better, depending on your preference)  and have to make cuts somewhere else.

[opt2not]

I realize it's not for everyone, but i'd personally much rather drop $40 on the art and put some extra money onto the functionality if my cab than to splurge on some art (that isn't even necessarily better, depending on your preference)  and have to make cuts somewhere else.

[yotsuya]

I realize it's not for everyone, but i'd personally much rather drop $40 on the art and put some extra money onto the functionality if my cab than to splurge on some art (that isn't even necessarily better, depending on your preference)  and have to make cuts somewhere else.

You mad, bro? 

[Rick]

You mad, bro? 

Opt's all...

[opt2not]

Not at all.  Same ol' same ol'. 

I just like how he had to put quotations on "real artists". As if making artwork from scratch and charging (in 90% of the cases, under-charging) is something to scoff or look down on.

But hey, pirating artwork isn't stealing, especially if you can pay only $40 for it. 

[Rick]

As if making artwork from scratch and charging (in 90% of the cases, under-charging) is something to scoff or look down on.

This isn't a thing?

[JDFan]

I just like how he had to put quotations on "real artists". As if making artwork from scratch and charging (in 90% of the cases, under-charging) is something to scoff or look down on.

The quotes around the real artists was more a response to xiahou2's comment in the prior post -which you might have missed since you might have messages from him blocked or perhaps you just do not read through the walls of text he normally posts. 

But hey, pirating artwork isn't stealing, especially if you can pay only $40 for it. 

And I suppose reusing original artwork from the arcades is any better or using one of the xx in 1 boards  or MAME and the rom downloads themselves ?? 

[Rick]

Ladies, ladies. You're both pretty!

[Slugworth]

Not at all.  Same ol' same ol'. 

I just like how he had to put quotations on "real artists". As if making artwork from scratch and charging (in 90% of the cases, under-charging) is something to scoff or look down on.

But hey, pirating artwork isn't stealing, especially if you can pay only $40 for it. 

Certainly wasn't meant as a slight and hope it wasn't taken that way, it's just the definition of being an artist is completely arbitrary (as are most titles... Being a "business analyst" on its own doesn't make me any more qualified to analyze a business than someone who is a "sales director" for example).   But I'd also say that just because someone does art work as a hobby (or lives in India and can under sell you based on the fact that their cost of living is a fraction of yours, as is the case in this circumstance and the real benefit to using Elance) doesn't necessarily make them any less qualified to do the job than someone who does artwork full time.  You evaluate their portfolio and decide if you like what they do... Whether they are an artist, a stay at home mother, or a janitor makes little difference.

As for pirating artwork I'll admit I'm completely naive on this point.  Are we not allowed to use images from Google Images on our arcade cabinets, or hang them in our rooms?  If I ask a friend to resize an image (since I don't have photoshop) so I can make it into a computer wallpaper am I pirating it if I didn't create it myself?  If I give my friend $10 for his time is that what turns it into pirating?  Honest question, since I really don't know what is acceptable when it comes to using images that are easily available on google for personal use.

[Slugworth]

Not at all.  Same ol' same ol'. 

I just like how he had to put quotations on "real artists". As if making artwork from scratch and charging (in 90% of the cases, under-charging) is something to scoff or look down on.

But hey, pirating artwork isn't stealing, especially if you can pay only $40 for it. 

I will add that I wish I lived in a world where I could justify buying some of your art.  Looks like you've done really cool cabinets and I respect the work and talent that takes. 

This thread wasn't meant to knock on people who create art for a living, but to highlight some other options for those without the means to spend several hundreds of dollars but still want to personalize their cabinets beyond black paint. 

[yotsuya]

Certainly wasn't meant as a slight and hope it wasn't taken that way, it's just the definition of being an artist is completely arbitrary (as are most titles... Being a "business analyst" on its own doesn't make me any more qualified to analyze a business than someone who is a "sales director" for example).   But I'd also say that just because someone does art work as a hobby (or lives in India and can under sell you based on the fact that their cost of living is a fraction of yours, as is the case in this circumstance and the real benefit to using Elance) doesn't necessarily make them any less qualified to do the job than someone who does artwork full time.  You evaluate their portfolio and decide if you like what they do... Whether they are an artist, a stay at home mother, or a janitor makes little difference.

You can do whatever you want. I think my buddy opt2not was offended because for years he, as a professional artist who has worked in the game community, has offered his services to do custom artwork. Naturally, as an accomplished artist, he expects to get paid the appropriate amount for his talents. When opt2not does something for you, you get something designed from scratch using his talents. He's not going to grab some free images off Google and pass them off as his creation (Mikonos, anyone?). I think he takes umbrage because you said:

Ultimately I just wanted to let people know Elance is a great resource and you can get good work done for a fraction of what a "real artist" would charge you.

Your use of the quotes around "real artist" basically denigrates the job that he as a real, honest-to-goodness makes-his-wage-from-his-talent artist does because he's too expensive for you. Hell, for $40 I could use my Photoshop skills and make you your own sideart and marquee, but there's no way I could create any original work that would look like something a real professional artist can make for you (nor would I call myself an artist). The way I think he sees it, you didn't pay $40 for an artist, you paid $40 for someone to manipulate ready-made graphics and then turned around and basically made it sound like anything more would be a waste of money.

I mean, I think I know what you meant, and I know you didn't mean it as a slight, but I could see how a real artist who has given his time and skill to this community over the years would have taken offense to your comments.

[opt2not]

Yotsuya has articulated my pov perfectly. 
I could elaborate more, but he hit all points.

[Xiaou2]

Yotsuya covered most everything.

  I think its fine to outsource if you cant afford 1st world talent.   You wont get their services anyway. .. so its not like they are losing out.

 That said... promoting some hack that steals real artists originals... then screws them up royally to boot...AND has the audacity to charge money for said stolen property...  thats not acceptable to me.

 There are in fact many talented artists in impoverished countries that would make some amazing original works of art for the same money you spent on a hack of a stolen oil painting.

 And btw... if you only knew how much effort went into those original paintings... you would probably hit yourself with a hammer in self protest.    Oils take a long time to dry... so a painting could easily stretch on for several months of on and off work.   The work in such details is painstaking and very unforgiving... so one critical error could ruin a lot of work.  (Oils can be Translucent... rather than opaque like acrylics.. so mistakes cant just be covered over)

 And yeah,  it is a real insult for some digital hack to ruin your works with laughable ignorance, and ZERO foundations in art period.  Its like a gym teacher trying to direct a pro ballet.

[Slugworth]

Yotsuya covered most everything.

  I think its fine to outsource if you cant afford 1st world talent.   You wont get their services anyway. .. so its not like they are losing out.

 That said... promoting some hack that steals real artists originals... then screws them up royally to boot...AND has the audacity to charge money for said stolen property...  thats not acceptable to me.

 There are in fact many talented artists in impoverished countries that would make some amazing original works of art for the same money you spent on a hack of a stolen oil painting.

 And btw... if you only knew how much effort went into those original paintings... you would probably hit yourself with a hammer in self protest.    Oils take a long time to dry... so a painting could easily stretch on for several months of on and off work.   The work in such details is painstaking and very unforgiving... so one critical error could ruin a lot of work.  (Oils can be Translucent... rather than opaque like acrylics.. so mistakes cant just be covered over)

 And yeah,  it is a real insult for some digital hack to ruin your works with laughable ignorance, and ZERO foundations in art period.  Its like a gym teacher trying to direct a pro ballet.

There's a difference between not being able to afford 1st world talent, and not thinking it is worth the price.  Luckily, the world is large enough for different opinions, and I'm fine with that.  The purpose of this thread was to simply share a resource some folks may not be familiar with (Elance) where you can get customized artwork for a fraction of the price some people around here are charging.  Obviously a few people are interested, because I've received more than one PM asking for additional info on the process.  I realize I did not choose to purchase original artwork, and I'm fine with that.  I really don't care if you feel it was a bastardized version of a masterpiece... I am happy with my exchange.  If I hadn't been happy, I would have continued to rework the pieces with the contractor until I was satisfied.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and we obviously have different thoughts on the matter. 

If others are set on truly original artwork, Elance is still a great source to explore since you can receive multiple bids for your project from a global pool of talent with some very impressive portfolios.  I'm sure there are a few other similar websites out there, and would be interested to hear if anyone has had a good experience with one. 

[shponglefan]

As for pirating artwork I'll admit I'm completely naive on this point.  Are we not allowed to use images from Google Images on our arcade cabinets, or hang them in our rooms?

Nope.  Unless something has been explicitly released in the public domain or is used under the "fair use" clause (which art for an arcade is more certainly NOT), then it's copyright infringement.

So as others have pointed out, you didn't actually outsource the artwork.  You outsourced a quick Photoshop job; the artwork is technically stolen.

[shponglefan]

Ultimately I just wanted to let people know Elance is a great resource and you can get good work done for a fraction of what a "real artist" would charge you.

Just like one can go and pick up bootleg DVDs for a fraction of what a "real store" would charge you.  It's illegal and possibly inferior, but hey, who cares if it's cheap, amirite?

[yotsuya]

Now, I don't personally care what the OP does with his cabinet, but 5 minutes of Googling found me this:

Dragonslayer by Tom Wood



According to this page: http://fantasygallery.net/wood/art_9_dragonslayer-by-Tom-Wood.html "Artwork copyright Tom Wood Fantasy Art"

Black Dragon vs Angel


I'd have your artist go back and fix the aspect ratio on the marquee. The one he made for you is too squished, especially in relation to the original.


Note: I've posted these for discussion sake, not to rip the OP. But it does raise some interesting questions about paying for artwork/Photoshop jobs. I remember a few weeks ago someone who paid for Donkey Kong artwork, and the "elancer" basically did the same thing.

[Slugworth]

Now, I don't personally care what the OP does with his cabinet, but 5 minutes of Googling found me this:

Dragonslayer by Tom Wood



According to this page: http://fantasygallery.net/wood/art_9_dragonslayer-by-Tom-Wood.html "Artwork copyright Tom Wood Fantasy Art"

Black Dragon vs Angel


I'd have your artist go back and fix the aspect ratio on the marquee. The one he made for you is too squished, especially in relation to the original.


Note: I've posted these for discussion sake, not to rip the OP. But it does raise some interesting questions about paying for artwork/Photoshop jobs. I remember a few weeks ago someone who paid for Donkey Kong artwork, and the "elancer" basically did the same thing.

Thanks, I'll do that.  Good suggestion.

[Slugworth]

Ultimately I just wanted to let people know Elance is a great resource and you can get good work done for a fraction of what a "real artist" would charge you.

Just like one can go and pick up bootleg DVDs for a fraction of what a "real store" would charge you.  It's illegal and possibly inferior, but hey, who cares if it's cheap, amirite?

Good to know.  Though, I will say it's a little odd hearing so many people in this forum talk about copyright infringement, when I'd bet exactly 0% of the people who build a MAME own the copyrights to all the artwork (especially given how many different versions of cosmic frostbite I've seen floating around!), and all of the games they load up on it.  Could be I'm just skeptical.... maybe everyone here actually owns a physical copy of the 4,000+ games they load on to their machines?

[How do I legally obtain ROMs or disk images to run on MAME?]

You have several options:
You can obtain a license to them by purchasing one via a distributor or vendor who has proper authority to do so.
You can download one of the ROM sets that have been released for free to the public for non-commerical use.
You can purchase an actual arcade PCB, read the ROMs or disks yourself, and let MAME use that data.
Beyond these options, you are on your own.

[edekoning]

I think it has more to do with the distinction between 'for personal use' and 'for commercial use'. So the roms are likely to be used purely for personal use (they are not being sold). Whereas, the art in question is being monetized on. Though 'for personal use' is most likely still very much illegal. However, public opinion tends to be ok with it.

[Malenko]

Good to know.  Though, I will say it's a little odd hearing so many people in this forum talk about copyright infringement, when I'd bet exactly 0% of the people who build a MAME own the copyrights to all the artwork (especially given how many different versions of cosmic frostbite I've seen floating around!), and all of the games they load up on it.  Could be I'm just skeptical.... maybe everyone here actually owns a physical copy of the 4,000+ games they load on to their machines?

Let me highlight a few differences:

When I recreated the NHL Open Ice marquee based on the original and put it up for people to use, I didnt make any money based on someone elses work. The art was created for restoration and customization purposes. AFAIK , its totes legal.

When you hired a guy to steal someone else's art and edit it to your liking, he made money on it which is at minimum a legal grey area.  If you took the guys art and resized it and redid it for your cab; that's totally different. So you are not comparing apples to apples. Absolute worst case, you should email the artist and ask him for permission, and stress its for personal use. You'd be surprised how flexible people can be if you politely ask.

As for your 0% you are wrong. I have created cabs with custom artwork that I made from scratch and I've paid Opt2Not to design some completely original art for a friends cab. So I own the rights to the hung donkey art, and its one of  kind. When I made Bonnie's Pink box, I used some GPL art, and the only games it runs are PopCap PC games I bought and some steam games she bought 100% legal. As for owning all the games, well, my MAME cab isnt up and running Im not in a rush to get it to as I own quite a few real arcade machines. If I were to load up just the games I legally own, I could still have quite the selection of games. Can you say the same?


EDIT: And for the love of Pete, STOP QUOTING X2!  You should just ignore him, when you acknowledge him, the terrorists win.

[Vigo]

 

So as others have pointed out, you didn't actually outsource the artwork.  You outsourced a quick Photoshop job; the artwork is technically stolen.

I'm only here to set one record straight. Taking existing art and manipulating it to something new through Photoshop is not necessarily pirating or copyright infringement. There are laws that are much older than photshop, but if you can reasonably create an artwork that is new from existing material, than it can be considered an original art piece. I believe the standard threshold is 20% new, or 5 element changes. It is the reason that Andy Warhol's Campbell's soup cans, or a collage like the cover of the Beatles Sgt. Pepper album is considered original artwork.

Whether you feel it took effort or talent is another issue altogether, but I think the top graphic was altered enough to be considered an original art piece. I can't say for sure on the other two.

Edit: After looking at yotsuya post, those bottom two are waay too close to the original. Those are infringement.

[yotsuya]

Good to know.  Though, I will say it's a little odd hearing so many people in this forum talk about copyright infringement, when I'd bet exactly 0% of the people who build a MAME own the copyrights to all the artwork (especially given how many different versions of cosmic frostbite I've seen floating around!), and all of the games they load up on it.  Could be I'm just skeptical.... maybe everyone here actually owns a physical copy of the 4,000+ games they load on to their machines?

Let me highlight a few differences:

When I recreated the NHL Open Ice marquee based on the original and put it up for people to use, I didnt make any money based on someone elses work. The art was created for restoration and customization purposes. AFAIK , its totes legal.

When you hired a guy to steal someone else's art and edit it to your liking, he made money on it which is at minimum a legal grey area.  If you took the guys art and resized it and redid it for your cab; that's totally different. So you are not comparing apples to apples. Absolute worst case, you should email the artist and ask him for permission, and stress its for personal use. You'd be surprised how flexible people can be if you politely ask.

Yeah, that's really the big difference here. I'm sure all of us at some time have taken elements from the web for our cab graphics, or used them in the front end, or whatnot. It's when you bring into account charging people for other's artwork that it starts to get sketchy. I'm curious, Slugworth, did you provide the graphics to the Photoshopper, or did he go out and get them for you? Again, not judging you, just curious about the process.

[Slugworth]

Good to know.  Though, I will say it's a little odd hearing so many people in this forum talk about copyright infringement, when I'd bet exactly 0% of the people who build a MAME own the copyrights to all the artwork (especially given how many different versions of cosmic frostbite I've seen floating around!), and all of the games they load up on it.  Could be I'm just skeptical.... maybe everyone here actually owns a physical copy of the 4,000+ games they load on to their machines?

Let me highlight a few differences:

When I recreated the NHL Open Ice marquee based on the original and put it up for people to use, I didnt make any money based on someone elses work. The art was created for restoration and customization purposes. AFAIK , its totes legal.

When you hired a guy to steal someone else's art and edit it to your liking, he made money on it which is at minimum a legal grey area.  If you took the guys art and resized it and redid it for your cab; that's totally different. So you are not comparing apples to apples. Absolute worst case, you should email the artist and ask him for permission, and stress its for personal use. You'd be surprised how flexible people can be if you politely ask.

EDIT: And for the love of Pete, STOP QUOTING X2!  You should just ignore him, when you acknowledge him, the terrorists win.

So if you don't have a version of photoshop or similar editing software, your options are to use the original pictures EXACTLY as the creator created them, or to hire someone to create brand new from scratch art for you?  But if you have photoshop, you can now alter anyone's work (like your NHL Open Ice cab) as long as it's for personal use?

Seems to be an arbitrary delineation.  Can't I pay someone to use photoshop under my direction?  I'm not paying for the artwork, necessarily, I'm paying for the hours it takes to manipulate it, as opposed to doing it myself.  To make this clear, the Elancer was 100% clear that she was just photoshopping images for me (I actually sent her several images that I liked for her to use as a guide) and was not the creator of any of the art.  So, I can do it myself, but if I lack the software I'm out of luck? 

As for my 0% comment, I'm glad to hear that some people do own the software licences for all the games they play.  I'd have thought that sending a letter to Capcom for their explicit permission would have been a giant pain in the butt (for those using ROMs instead of original PCBs). 

Q. Is it legal to download ROMs for a game when I own the PCB?
A. This is unclear and depends on where you live. In most cases you would need to obtain permission from the original manufacturer to do so.

[Slugworth]

Good to know.  Though, I will say it's a little odd hearing so many people in this forum talk about copyright infringement, when I'd bet exactly 0% of the people who build a MAME own the copyrights to all the artwork (especially given how many different versions of cosmic frostbite I've seen floating around!), and all of the games they load up on it.  Could be I'm just skeptical.... maybe everyone here actually owns a physical copy of the 4,000+ games they load on to their machines?

Let me highlight a few differences:

When I recreated the NHL Open Ice marquee based on the original and put it up for people to use, I didnt make any money based on someone elses work. The art was created for restoration and customization purposes. AFAIK , its totes legal.

When you hired a guy to steal someone else's art and edit it to your liking, he made money on it which is at minimum a legal grey area.  If you took the guys art and resized it and redid it for your cab; that's totally different. So you are not comparing apples to apples. Absolute worst case, you should email the artist and ask him for permission, and stress its for personal use. You'd be surprised how flexible people can be if you politely ask.

Yeah, that's really the big difference here. I'm sure all of us at some time have taken elements from the web for our cab graphics, or used them in the front end, or whatnot. It's when you bring into account charging people for other's artwork that it starts to get sketchy. I'm curious, Slugworth, did you provide the graphics to the Photoshopper, or did he go out and get them for you? Again, not judging you, just curious about the process.

We did both.  I sent a few of the pictures I liked (including the black dragon one you found the original for) and said something to the effect of "these are some pictures I like, but I have a hard time imagining how everything would come together, so feel free to use these or find similar stuff.... warriors, dragons, mages, etc that fit the theme".

She ultimately used the black dragon one (I'm using that for the marquee, which is why it had to be stretched a bit... i told her 23 x 5), and then found the source for the side art and the control panel on her own.  She'd send me a .jpeg of what she came up with, and I'd provide feedback and tell her what adjustments to make (more color, different size, move the image out of the button holes, etc). 

From my point of view it really was paying someone to use photoshop for me, since it's an expensive program that takes a LOT of time to master.  If I had the skills I'd have done it myself.  There was never any impression given that she was the artist, just that she had the program and the required training to do the work that I couldn't do for myself.

[Vigo]

But if you have photoshop, you can now alter anyone's work (like your NHL Open Ice cab) as long as it's for personal use?

No, see my post above, something altered enough becomes a new piece and legal. Other restoration reasons come into play as well in certain situations.

Can't I pay someone to use photoshop under my direction?  I'm not paying for the artwork, necessarily, I'm paying for the hours it takes to manipulate it, as opposed to doing it myself.

A couple points there. 1, It doesn't take hours to crop and fine tune an image. 2, if you are looking at the legality issue, you cannot say you are exclusively paying the person for manipulation. That is like paying someone to smuggle cocaine across the border, and saying it is not illegal because you only payed for a shipping service.

So, I can do it myself, but if I lack the software I'm out of luck?

Actually, most people here with photoshop will be happy to put a piece of premade art into a control panel size for you for free. We honestly leave it to you to make the decision about the legal or moral implications. The thing that is rubbing people the wrong way is that many people who use these services like elance either expect they have a legal right to use the art, that the art they paid for actually took effort and time, or that they are getting something original. Also, many photoshoppers cover up what they are doing under the mask that they made original art. It is good that this person was honest with you that they simply cropped a photo, but about 90% of the people who come here showing off "custom art" they paid for were scammed by a photoshopper.

[Vigo]

Here is a good thread to read where someone was recently scammed on elance. I think it is a good example of why many of us are quick to be upset with elance.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,140416

I think it is totally fine that you know what you paid for and are happy with it. Sounds like a good scenario. As long as you are comfortable with the legality situation, then I am happy you are satisfied with the outcome. 

[Slugworth]

For those curious, this was my project description:

So I'm building a arcade machine to put in my living room (or in my garage if my wife doesn't like how it looks) and I need some help jazzing it up.

Ultimately, I need a photoshop file (.psd) and a picture file (.tif) in 'real size' so I can print it off on vinyl and put on my arcade. I need 3 pieces of work:

Marquee (goes across the top of the machine and is backlit): 23" x 5"
Control Panel (this will have the buttons / joysticks in it): 35" x 15"
Side Art (2 identical pieces.. one for each side): 12" diameter circle

I've looked through some pictures online and am thinking of going with a D&D theme, but I'm not married to any one picture in particular. Nothing too dark or satanic / evil... but I like Dragons, Fantasy themed creates, etc (see attached pictures for examples).  You're free to fit these pictures into the required dimensions or come up with something on your own that fits the theme. 

I'll also need professional advice on what color joysticks, buttons, and t-molding to hook the arcade up with to blend it all together.

I've also included a picture of my "model cabinet" that I will be trying to mimic as I build my own, as well as a .psd of the control panel template I am using (though my dimensions are slightly different... placement of the buttons should be the same).

Hope that's enough info. Since this is a hobby and my wife can't quite understand why I need to spend any sort of money to basically play Pac-Man, I've gotta keep this cheap.

END ADD:

Anyways, this has been interesting for me to see all the different viewpoints.  I would have thought hiring some help to do something I'm unable to do myself (simply resizing and cropping photos)  would have been a no brainer, but it appears to be a hot button issue for a lot of folks here, which is odd because from the posts I've read very few bat an eye at downloading thousands of ROMs and Emulators. 

[yotsuya]

Posts like these are why I have a mancrush on Vigo.

Can't I pay someone to use photoshop under my direction?  I'm not paying for the artwork, necessarily, I'm paying for the hours it takes to manipulate it, as opposed to doing it myself.

A couple points there. 1, It doesn't take hours to crop and fine tune an image. 2, if you are looking at the legality issue, you cannot say you are exclusively paying the person for manipulation. That is like paying someone to smuggle cocaine across the border, and saying it is not illegal because you only payed for a shipping service.

Those of you who love using analogies, take note: this is what a GOOD one looks like. 

So, I can do it myself, but if I lack the software I'm out of luck?

Actually, most people here with photoshop will be happy to put a piece of premade art into a control panel size for you for free. We honestly leave it to you to make the decision about the legal or moral implications. The thing that is rubbing people the wrong way is that many people who use these services like elance either expect they have a legal right to use the art, that the art they paid for actually took effort and time, or that they are getting something original. Also, many photoshoppers cover up what they are doing under the mask that they made original art. It is good that this person was honest with you that they simply cropped a photo, but about 90% of the people who come here showing off "custom art" they paid for were scammed by a photoshopper.

This is what guys like Mikonos used to do (or still does, for all we now). I mean, if THEY can use Google to get the art, it's not like ANYONE else can't (which was part of the reason why I went to find those two images. 5 minutes and I had them both. Another 5 and I could have recreated the CP and the Marquee, with adjusted proportions - I don't like squished!  )

And honestly, I don't care if the OP is bothered about the legality of the artwork. He knowingly paid for Photoshop manipulation, it's his cab, haggle gaggle. But I think that future builders reading posts like this should know exactly what they are getting into when it comes to artwork.

And the issue so much isn't the use of copyrighted art, it's the comments that dismissed "real artists" that was the initial hot button issue. And you keep mentioning emulators and games, but no one is paying for ROMS. Apples and oranges.

[Vigo]

Posts like these are why I have a mancrush on Vigo.

It's mutual. I usually start mancrushing on yotsuya when he brings up what elements make a well designed cabinet. The man has impeccable taste, what can I say?

[JDFan]

Here is a good thread to read where someone was recently scammed on elance. I think it is a good example of why many of us are quick to be upset with elance.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,140416

I think it is totally fine that you know what you paid for and are happy with it. Sounds like a good scenario. As long as you are comfortable with the legality situation, then I am happy you are satisfied with the outcome. 

And here is the follow up thread on his cocktail cabinet build ( http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,140688.msg1457070.html#msg1457070 ) and a pic of the finished cabinet ( note on the pac man side he had me resize the image smaller as he was planning on putting an aluminum kickplate at the bottom to avoid damage if the player kicked but forgot to attach it before placing the artwork so left it off - which is why it sits low and does not cover the side properly !)

And I agree with Vigo -- If they told you what you were getting and you are happy with it then I see no problems (though I try to stick to public domain art  or contacting the original artist for permission - ie. on the cocktail cab used art released by Nintendo etc. to publicize their game ) -- If on the other hand they are trying to tell you the are doing original art that they design then that's another thing.

[shponglefan]

Good to know.  Though, I will say it's a little odd hearing so many people in this forum talk about copyright infringement, when I'd bet exactly 0% of the people who build a MAME own the copyrights to all the artwork (especially given how many different versions of cosmic frostbite I've seen floating around!), and all of the games they load up on it.  Could be I'm just skeptical.... maybe everyone here actually owns a physical copy of the 4,000+ games they load on to their machines?

TBH, I think most people don't care that much about using copyrighted images on their cabinets or controllers.  The reality is, without copyright infringement, the majority of this hobby would not exist.

For me, though, it's more the idea that paying someone to steal and Photoshop pre-existing images is in any way comparable to paying a real artist to create something original.  It's not.  The former is cheap, because there isn't really any content creation involved.  It's incredibly easy to just download some pics, and resize or add an overlay in Photoshop.  But to create the images from scratch takes a lot of time and skill to pull off.  Which is why a real artist would likely charge hundreds if not thousands of dollars to create something original.

[thatpurplestuff]

Figured I would chime in really quick, not to get into the legality/morality debate but just to comment on the actual work involved in resizing those images.  In my mind, $40 is way too much to be spending on a simple resize job like this (especially given that some people here probably would have done it for free).

A program like GIMP is a free alternative to Photoshop that provides all you would need to resize images, and it is an incredible simple process.  No joke, people with no design experience whatsoever could be resizing their images within 20-30 minutes of downloading the software and reading a tutorial or two online.  Any printer worth their salt can work with TIF files, and that is a format that both Photoshop and GIMP are capable of creating.

Not knocking the thread creator, I'm just hoping to prevent future BYOAC'ers from giving $40 to someone for work that probably took less than 5 minutes of actual work.

Tutorial on resizing using GIMP.  It describes the difference between resizing the canvas and resizing the image, and shows you how to do both. -> https://www.suse.com/communities/conversations/gimp-tips-part-1-resizing-images/
Tutorial on saving TIF files: http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/gimptutorials/tp/save-tiff.htm

[Vigo]

I think another real point that needs to be made is that when art is ripped off, there is often a real artist who could have been paid for their art. Most Mame games are from companies that no longer exist, and frankly the games would no longer exist either if they were not preserved by the mame developers. There is nobody tangible to pay for these games. (we also get upset with anyone who tries to sell roms)

While they might be illegal to use roms in a technical sense, to us it is often very justified because of all the preservation done, and it took our support to save ten thousands games that would have been otherwise lost. This is spirit of the law vs letter of the law stuff.

[yotsuya]

I think another real point that needs to be made is that when art is ripped off, there is often a real artist who could have been paid for their art. Most Mame games are from companies that no longer exist, and frankly the games would no longer exist either if they were not preserved by the mame developers. There is nobody tangible to pay for these games. (we also get upset with anyone who tries to sell roms)

While they might be illegal to use roms in a technical sense, to us it is often very justified because of all the preservation done, and it took our support to save ten thousands games that would have been otherwise lost. This is spirit of the law vs letter of the law stuff.

Excellent point. You can actually buy that Dragonslayer print off Tom Wood's site. He's still actively selling that artwork he created.

[Malenko]

So if you don't have a version of photoshop or similar editing software, your options are to use the original pictures EXACTLY as the creator created them, or to hire someone to create brand new from scratch art for you?  But if you have photoshop, you can now alter anyone's work (like your NHL Open Ice cab) as long as it's for personal use?

Seems to be an arbitrary delineation.  Can't I pay someone to use photoshop under my direction?  I'm not paying for the artwork, necessarily, I'm paying for the hours it takes to manipulate it, as opposed to doing it myself.  To make this clear, the Elancer was 100% clear that she was just photoshopping images for me (I actually sent her several images that I liked for her to use as a guide) and was not the creator of any of the art.  So, I can do it myself, but if I lack the software I'm out of luck? 

As for my 0% comment, I'm glad to hear that some people do own the software licences for all the games they play.  I'd have thought that sending a letter to Capcom for their explicit permission would have been a giant pain in the butt (for those using ROMs instead of original PCBs). 

Q. Is it legal to download ROMs for a game when I own the PCB?
A. This is unclear and depends on where you live. In most cases you would need to obtain permission from the original manufacturer to do so.

OK, allow me to retort
You dont need photoshop, there are a ton of free image editors out there (stressing free incase you say you cant afford them) like Gimp, hell even MSPaint can resize and crop images. The fact you think I altered the Open Ice marquee, and that I didnt recreate it, makes me think you just glossed over my reply.  I recreated the art work for restoration purposes.Makes it totally legit. If someone wants to alter it for their personal cab, I believe they are within their rights to use it, so long as they dont attempt to  sell the art to others.  Is the artist you hired even using a legit legal paid version of Photoshop? Yes, I have photoshop (actually the entire Creative Cloud Suite) and it aint cheap. Im sure Tom Wood is probably still selling that are you stole, Midway not only doesnt exist, but they sure aint selling NHL Open Ice marquees anymore.

Vigo already hit the nail on the head about  paying for shipping not the cocaine, and he explained it much better than I could have. You circled back to the software, which was already addressed.

Contacting Capcom literally has NOTHING to do with the software example I cited. Bonnie's cab uses a paid version PopCaps Windows games on a touch screen PC and steam games with controller support, on a cab with scratch made and GPL art that wasnt made for profit and wont ever be sold for profit. My MAME cab isnt done, so no games are playable......

Or do you mean I should contact WB/Neather Realm Studios to see if its OK I play my actual MKII arcade game with an actual MKII PCB in my garage?  Theres tons of grey area when it comes to what you can and cant play (in MAME), I look at it in more of a moral sense than a legal one.  If I bought Final Fight for SNES, I dont feel bad about playing it in MAME (I also have it for Sega CD and on XBOX Live) same goes for Mortal Kombat II, if I have the actual arcade machine right next to my MAME cab and I feel like trying it out in MAME, I think its perfectly acceptable.

[Rick]

ITT: No Lawyers.

[Generic Eric]

[Slugworth]

Midway may not exist, but I Guarantee you someone still owns every single one of their copyrights. And would love to be paid for their use.  Just because it's a Corporation that's being ripped off instead of an artist doesn't make it any different.

Now, the example you gave of games purchased through steam is different (and that whole
Cocktail can you linked), but the vast majority of MaMe users I've seen use pirated ROMS.  Just because it's rationalized, doesn't make it different.  Copyright infringement is copyright infringement, regardless of the medium. 

Now I'm not judging, as I plan on playing these same games on my cab once it's finished.  Just pointing out that if folks are going to get on their high horse, they better be careful not to fall off.  It's a slippery slope once you claim to be following the spirit of the law.

[Malenko]

Ugh, editing my post for brevity.

Recreation not for profit isnt the same as editing for profit. Stop comparing the 2.
A collection of anecdotes is not data.

You are stealing from an artist, stop trying to justify it by saying people play MAME illegally.

[Vigo]

Midway may not exist, but I Guarantee you someone still owns every single one of their copyrights. And would love to be paid for their use.  Just because it's a Corporation that's being ripped off instead of an artist doesn't make it any different.

Send me the link where I can pay for the mame romset that makes it all legal on my end. I am curious as to where I can pay the thousands of copyright holders all over the world for use of their wonderful and obscure games that they were lucky enough to have someone else preserve for them for free.

[Slugworth]

Midway may not exist, but I Guarantee you someone still owns every single one of their copyrights. And would love to be paid for their use.  Just because it's a Corporation that's being ripped off instead of an artist doesn't make it any different.

Send me the link where I can pay for the mame romset that makes it all legal on my end. I am curious as to where I can pay the thousands of copyright holders all over the world for use of their wonderful and obscure games that they were lucky enough to have someone else preserve for them for free.

You can still buy their games in the 2nd hand market.  By downloading them illegally you are taking money away from the 2nd hand stores that make a legitimate living by buying the legal licenses to the games and reselling them.  Further, I know Capcom (at least) has released a "coin ops classics" compilation that would
Give you rom rights to the games.

I really don't care, just trying to point out the hypocrisy to a community that wouldn't exist except for the infringement of copyright laws they deride others for breaking.

[Hoopz]

Is this argument this decades equivalent of USB v. PS/2?

 

[yotsuya]

I really don't care, just trying to point out the hypocrisy to a community that wouldn't exist except for the infringement of copyright laws they deride others for breaking.

Why do you keep bringing up ROMS? The initial issue wasn't ROMs, it wasn't even the legality of your "artwork", it was whether or not using a service like Elance is just as good as hiring a real artist.

[Vigo]

You can still buy their games in the 2nd hand market.  By downloading them illegally you are taking money away from the 2nd hand stores that make a legitimate living by buying the legal licenses to the games and reselling them.  Further, I know Capcom (at least) has released a "coin ops classics" compilation that would
Give you rom rights to the games.

For the record, having capcom coin op classics, midway treasures, or any other compilation doesn't make it any more legal to own the roms for the games on that disc. It is also not more legal if you own the actual arcade machine, because you did not backup that rom up yourself, and copyright law looks at it as an entirely different product if the source is different.

A basic example: CBS and NBC both film a press conference and each network sets up a camera side by side filming the same thing from the same angle. CBS and NBC both have rights to their own footage, but not to each others, even if it looks identical. The same goes with roms and owning it on another console. RIAA made sure of that one was clarified when people downloaded music they already owned on cassette/CD/vinyl.

[Malenko]

ok , so I reached out to Tom Wood, he replied within an hour of me emailing him.

Hi Malenko,
  Thanks for alerting me to this issue. This is unfortunately a common
occurrence in the art world. I do not blame "Slugworth" for wanting to
decorate his cabinet as cheaply as possible, or even the girl who
downloaded my art to complete her $40.00 job. Really? $40
for dragging a jpeg to you desktop? Cudos, photoshop girl!  Anyway,
Slugworth and even Elance-photoshop girl could have just asked
permission and explained the situation. I would have let them do it.

To set a few things straight, they can use copyrighted imagery for
personal uses. The elance girl sold the service of providing dragon
imagery that she did not own, which is absolutely illegal. That said,
I will not bring in my lawyer and licensing agent in over $40.
Slugworth is fine unless he tries in any way to profit from the sale
of the cabinet adorned with artwork he does not own.

 I was touched to see the fierce discussion of you and others who
understand the pains taken to create such pieces.

Thanks so much.
Sincerely,
Tom Wood

So yeah, you could step off your high horse if you would have just emailed the guy. I for one will be buying some art from him as Xmas gifts for some friends to support him and thank him for such a swift and honest reply.  2 things to take away from all this; never under estimate the power of communication and what the elance chick did was illegal.

[BadMouth]