Trackball Purchase question

[MaxAsh]

Hello all - I've been hunting for a cheap trackball option, could use a little advice. I've searched forums and seen lots of options/ideas. I've considered some DIY options. (I built a DIY spinner that works perfectly, but that's because spinners are often expensive.) Trackballs seem to be cheaper, so I'm wondering if there's a reason I couldn't just use this one:

PS/2 Trackball

Granted, it's only 2", but I don't see that as an issue with my build. At about $24 including shipping, seems like a cheap option. While I doubt it's premium quality, I don't see it get tons of use so I would think it would be okay as an add-on to my existing CP. What do you guys think? If I can keep the total cost of a trackball around $30-35 or less, I'll add one. If not, I'll save it for later and use the money for other things in the project. Thanks!

[BobA]

Never liked PC trackballs on a control panel.  Here is a trackball that is even cheaper and looks more like an arcade unit.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758

[JDFan]

Should work OK -- but for a bit more Rablack97 has some 3" Happ refurbished units in the Buy\sell\trade sub forum for $45 shipped if you want a regular size instead of the 2" ! ( http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,129928.0.html )

[PL1]

The only downside on the Sparkfun-style trackball is the lack of mounting plates IIRC.

Degenatrons worked around that on a 12mm CP using this method.


Scott
EDIT: Updated KADE forum URL.

[MaxAsh]

Never liked PC trackballs on a control panel.  Here is a trackball that is even cheaper and looks more like an arcade unit.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758

I think that's the same exact trackball as the one I posted actually. Looks identical in the pictures.

but for a bit more Rablack97 has some 3" Happ refurbished units in the Buy\sell\trade sub forum for $45 shipped if you want a regular size instead of the 2"

I'll take a look at Rablack97's post. Not sure if the $45 shipped price you mentioned includes everything I'd need to hook it up to USB (or PS/2), or if I'd need the encoder, etc in addition to that price. I'll check, thank you for the link

[JDFan]

I'll take a look at Rablack97's post. Not sure if the $45 shipped price you mentioned includes everything I'd need to hook it up to USB (or PS/2), or if I'd need the encoder, etc in addition to that price. I'll check, thank you for the link

Forgot about that -- He also has some cheap encoder cards for $10 that work with them or spinners as well. 

[DeLuSioNal29]

The only downside on the Sparkfun-style trackball is the lack of mounting plates IIRC.

What about this?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2-1-4-Arcade-Trackball-Mounting-Plate-for-LED-PS2-trackballs-Mame-/121103953119?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c325bacdf

D

[MaxAsh]

Right now I'm thinking primarily functionality/cost. If I could snag everything I needed (trackball, encoder, wiring, etc) from Rablack97 for under $50 shipped, that would probably be a steal. I'll have to check with him. I was hoping to keep it lower, but if the cheaper Sparkfun option ends up hitting $40+ with a mounting plate, etc, then perhaps I should just go another route. Tempting to try a DIY since I did well with the spinner DIY, but I see a trackball being tougher.

[PL1]

The only downside on the Sparkfun-style trackball is the lack of mounting plates IIRC.

What about this?  http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2-1-4-Arcade-Trackball-Mounting-Plate-for-LED-PS2-trackballs-Mame-/121103953119?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c325bacdf

D

Looks like it might be good since Dirt Cheap Trading carries both the Sparkfun-style trackball and that plate.

Not sure if the mounting holes on the plate are 3-3/4" (Sparkfun) or 3-1/2" (Happ) spacing since the listings are severely lacking in details. 


Scott

[BobA]

Never liked PC trackballs on a control panel.  Here is a trackball that is even cheaper and looks more like an arcade unit.

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10758

I think that's the same exact trackball as the one I posted actually. Looks identical in the pictures.

Sorry missed the pic and the price thru me off.   I did not realize from the first post that you wanted a mounting plate.  You can get a mounting plate for these units as noted by others.  The trackballs work fairly well and have a lot of led lighting as a feature.  I think I did a review on the unit showing the inside assembly.

[MaxAsh]

I'll have to add up all the costs and see how it comes out. If the price is close, going for a restored bigger one might be fun. If it's cheaper by a decent margin, perhaps the sparkfun style. Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback!

[DaOld Man]

I used that sparkfun trackball on my "A Little Rage" build. It is still holding up pretty good.
How I mounted it is in the build thread (link in my signature below.)

Edit by moderator:  Trackball mounting in the DaOld Man's thread begins here.

[MaxAsh]

I used that sparkfun trackball on my "A Little Rage" build. It is still holding up pretty good.
How I mounted it is in the build thread (link in my signature below.)

Nice build! Question on the trackball mounting. The bottom pics all make sense, but I was curious about the top part. You used 1/2" MDF right? Looks like you routed out the top a bit, not sure how deep, 1/8"? You mentioned a modified plate, did that get dropped into the recessed/routed portion to make it flush with the CP I assume? I didn't see a pic of it, but some of the latter shots of the kids playing it seem to show the shadow of a plate, so I'm guessing that's what was done.

In my case, I have a midway cab with 3/4" thick CP + lexan covering, all adding up to about 7/8" to work through when mounting. I read in the link provided earlier in this thread that the top half of the sparkfun trackball can be removed and it's about 1/2" thick. I was thinking about doing what another member did and routing out the bottom of the CP and then mounting through the sparkfun's built-in mounting holes up into the CP from underneath. If I did that, I would probably need to get the router to about 1/2" deep under the CP and cut the hole in the top for just the trackball portion. I think this would eliminate the need for a mounting plate. Is there a guide on routing out things like this in a CP? I have very little experience with routing so far.

[MaxAsh]

Trackball arrived today. I ended up picking it up from Karlsson Electronics ($24 shipped priority mail). I decided to hook it up with an active PS/2 to USB converter ($0.99 eBay) and it works beautifully. Now the tricky part - mounting it. I saw DaOld Man's method, looks nice. Tough for me to pull off though, so I think I'll go with the previous method mentioned. Basically I'll take the top off the PS/2 trackball (just pops off easily) and mount it from under the CP. I'll have to use a router to carve out a 4"x4" section to the necessary depth. Then use a simple washer-spacing method and screw up from the bottom into the CP. This will completely hide the mounting, and the only thing visible from the top will be the ball itself. Should be interesting to try this out... using a neighbors router. Definitely going to do some practice runs on scrap first. I'll post pics if/when I succeed.

[Aceisback]

I have one of these trackballs and have been happy with it. Lights are a bit bright though, but there are ways to deal with that.

 I am sure there are better ones out there, but this one has been working great for me the last 2 years.

[Richardgregory]

DaOld Man:  How does the Sparkfun trackball "feel" in terms of trackballs from Happ per se?  Is it good enough for games and offer a great feel.  Ie. Golden Tee, Centipede.

How tall is this trackball?  The website says 1.6 inches high, but watching the video it looks a lot taller than the specs.


Thanks for the info.

I used that sparkfun trackball on my "A Little Rage" build. It is still holding up pretty good.
How I mounted it is in the build thread (link in my signature below.)

Edit by moderator:  Trackball mounting in the DaOld Man's thread begins here.

[Richardgregory]

I'm going to get one of these Sparkfun trackballs too....looks like a decent price for what you get.

But, now the dilemma:  I don't want to rebuild another control panel!  So this might sound nutty, but I was thinking of just taking out the trackball and placing it on top of the control panel when needed - I don't play much trackball games, but if I do, the option is there.  Now the question is:

How would I mount it to the control panel if I go through this route?  In a way, that I can attach or detach quickly.    I'm sure some bright minds here can give me some ideas.  So far, I've thought of suction cups. 

Thoughts?

[BobA]

Industrial strength Velcro?

[DaOld Man]

Sorry about the late reply, Im just now seeing your questions about the trackball I used on "A Little Rage".

I didn't take pictures while I was doing the process, but this is how I did it.
First, yes, I used 1/2" MDF.
After cutting out the CP and test fitting it, I figured out where I wanted the trackball to be on the panel.

I then cut a hole in the CP the same size as the black plastic lip on the top of the trackball, that surrounds the ball.
I cut a round hole the same size (maybe slightly larger) in the CP.
I cant remember if I used a hole saw or my circle cutter rig for the router, but the hole turned out slightly larger than the outside diameter of the lip on the TB.

I then sat the trackball into the hole and figured out how where I would put the mounting bolts.
I drilled the holes for the bolts and counter sunk the holes on the top side of the CP. I used carriage bolts, the heads of the bolts recess into the CP, which I later covered with bondo.
I then shelved the trackball and cut out the other holes in the CP for joysticks and buttons.

I then laid out my plexi-glass on the top of the CP. I cut out all joystick holes and button holes with the router.
I mounted a few buttons to hold the plexi steady. I then cutout the round trackball hole, using the trim router bit with a bearing, so the hole in the plexi wound up being the same size as the hole in the CP.
I verified the trackball fit the hole in the plexi, then I sat the plexi aside.

Back on the component side of the CP, I laid the TB in the hole and lined it up nice and straight.
I then marked around the trackball case. I then cut out the mark in the CP with a jigsaw and cleaned up with a file and sandpaper.
The trackball fit nicely into the now square hole. I went ahead and put the TB mounting bolts in, used a nut to secure the bolt to the CP (4 bolts total).
I then flipped the CP over, put bondo in the holes above the carriage bolt heads, sanded them down nice and neat.

After bondo completely cured, I mounted the plexi on top of the CP, using a couple of buttons to secure it again.
I then taped off the plexi around the square TB hole, I "framed" the hole with frog tape.
I then removed plexi, flipped it over and taped around the frame on the opposite side that I had made with the tape.
I made sure I covered all the plexi with newspaper and frog tape. (Except the square where the trackball will be). I then spray painted (black), the square around the TB hole in the plexi.
The idea here was to paint the underside of the plexi to cover the top of the trackball case.
Underside of plexi so that the paint looks nice and smooth and cant be scratched from the top side of the plexi.
 
I then  mounted the TB in the hole, used some aluminum flat stock (lowes), which I had cut and drilled to fit the carriage bolts and the holes in the bottom of the Trackball. and attached the ball to the flat stock with plastic anchors and screws.
I mounted the plexi back onto the CP, installed all buttons and joysticks.
I then used nuts on the carriage bolts to adjust the trackball to be flush with the topside of the CP. (the lip around the ball wound up being flush with the top side of the plexi.)

Oh, I forgot, before I mounted the trackball, I painted the top of the lip around the ball green, to match the cabinet color. Used same paint so it matched pretty good. I dissembled the TB to do this (its easy to take apart).

Side note: This TB does not have a ground wire like the more expensive ones do, so I grounded the aluminum stock strips, not sure if this is necessary but it let me sleep a little better.
Also I had to cut out an angled hole to allow the cable to exit from the trackball. It was maybe 1/2" width on component side of CP and down to where the wire exits the TB.

I know this sounds complicated but its not, but it is time consuming.

Now about the ball. It doesn't "feel" like a happs ball, but its not bad. I tested it pretty good on my PC before committing to use it. I tried some bowling and golfing games with it, it works pretty good but don't expect it to feel like an expensive track ball.
This is a cheap ball, it has cheap rollers, no ball bearings (may explain the feel), but I guess you get what you pay for.
I did try to make it easy to change out so it can be replaced in the future if need to.
My grand daughter is 4 1/2 years old so she wont mistreat it too bad. Its been in use now for a year and a half and no complaints about it yet.

The lights on it only change colors when you press one of the three mouse buttons.
I removed the LEDs for this function and used a tricolor led assembly that tied back to the led wiz. (you can see this is the pictures on my thread).
I also removed the button harness from the TB because I didn't need it.

Hope this helps and thanks for the kind comments about my build. it was a labor of love and my Grand girls love it, so it was well worth the time, expense, and headaches!

Good luck with your project.

Edit: Heres a picture of the underside of the trackball, just to save you some searching for it:


And a pic of the finished top of the CP:

[DaOld Man]

DaOld Man:  How does the Sparkfun trackball "feel" in terms of trackballs from Happ per se?  Is it good enough for games and offer a great feel.  Ie. Golden Tee, Centipede.

How tall is this trackball?  The website says 1.6 inches high, but watching the video it looks a lot taller than the specs.

Thanks for the info.

Again, sorry for late reply.
I didn't measure the trackball, or don't remember it, but if you look at the picture in my thread, it is buried in a 1/2" MDF, and looks like maybe an inch sticking out below the CP, so 1.6 inches sounds about right.
read my previous post to see how I think it feels.

This is a pretty neat little trackball, but you got to remember it is not a happs, but it would be hard to find a happs for the price of this one, so you decide if you want or can afford to go with the better ball, or can make do with this one.

I used it mostly for its compact size, as I was squeezed for room on my build.

I highly recommend to disable the lights on it (I snipped the leds off), because they are way too bright, but that's your choice. You can change them out to leds that are not so bright or even different colors if you want. But the color changing only by pressing one of the mouse buttons is pretty useless for me.

I did look into modifying the board to allow me to switch colors externally (printer port or led wiz), but the add on tri color button led worked pretty good and was a lot simpler.
Hope this answers your questions and good luck on your project!

Thanks to the moderator for fixing my link, I get a little lazy sometimes LOL.

[MaxAsh]

I'm going to get one of these Sparkfun trackballs too....looks like a decent price for what you get.

But, now the dilemma:  I don't want to rebuild another control panel!  So this might sound nutty, but I was thinking of just taking out the trackball and placing it on top of the control panel when needed - I don't play much trackball games, but if I do, the option is there.  Now the question is:

How would I mount it to the control panel if I go through this route?  In a way, that I can attach or detach quickly.    I'm sure some bright minds here can give me some ideas.  So far, I've thought of suction cups. 

Thoughts?

My CP was pretty much done as well, so I had a similar concern. I'm going to try to disassemble the existing CP and work with it, hopefully avoiding a complete re-do. It's mostly a matter of patience and time, so I think I'll go that route. For now, I've got the trackball just sitting off to the side and I put it on top of the CP for testing. It's been working great, and everyone loves it.

Of course it moves around, so securing it requires me to hold it while people spin it, which of course is not ideal. The velcro idea could work, but then your CP has velcro on it. Suction cups aren't terrible, but it will depend on how good the cups are and how forceful the users are spinning the ball. If you really don't want to modify your CP or do a new one, then that might be your best option short of building some sort of rig hanging off the front of the CP. Depends on how your CP is mounted, but in theory I guess you could setup some sort of lip/bracket system with a removable board that the trackball is mounted to... but that would not look great and probably isn't worth all the hassle. So I'd say try your suction cup idea, and failing that just go through the effort of modifying the CP. You'd be happier in the end that way I think.

DaOldman - thanks for all the info. I'll be trying different ideas. We'll see!

[DaOld Man]

DaOldman - thanks for all the info. I'll be trying different ideas. We'll see!

You are quite welcome.
The way I mounted this trackball is definitely for a new control panel. Although it could be used with an old one, but it would require a complete disassembly of your CP.
If I were going to mount it in an already cut out CP, I think I would cut out the square in the CP and the plexi (if it has plexi), and use the custom trackball mounting plate made for this trackball.
I didn't know they had them until it was too late for me. If you are interested in this I will see if I can find a link to it.

[MaxAsh]

You are quite welcome.
The way I mounted this trackball is definitely for a new control panel. Although it could be used with an old one, but it would require a complete disassembly of your CP.
If I were going to mount it in an already cut out CP, I think I would cut out the square in the CP and the plexi (if it has plexi), and use the custom trackball mounting plate made for this trackball.
I didn't know they had them until it was too late for me. If you are interested in this I will see if I can find a link to it.

I was considering this method (posted earlier in this thread), though I'd probably still need to disassemble the CP: http://kadevice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=398 . It seems relatively simple, and basically no work from the top side of the CP if done correctly. What do you think DaOld Man?

The mounting plate is somewhere out there, I've seen it. I think it runs $15-20 (with shipping) though, which hurts the budget build plan for this trackball.

[Richardgregory]

Thanks for the link MaxAsh: looks easy enough - I might follow that - let's see what DaOldMan thinks

On that note:  Since I never had a trackball, I was wondering how much free space would be ideal from the top point of the trackball to any other object?  Ie.  If I had a spinner and wanted to mount the trackball below it, what distance is safe between the two.

[DaOld Man]

Yep, Delusional29 and PL1 have already posted a link to the mounting plate above.
That method to mount the trackball mentioned above does look pretty sharp, no black square plate or a painted square showing.

Richard, I am not sure what to tell you, only in my experience, make sure the ball is not too close to anything else that might get in the way, such as joystick or monitor. Buttons seem to be low enough not to make much difference.
remember when you play a game like bowling or golf, you will tend to move the ball forward a lot more than is probably necessary so you do not want your fingers hitting anything. This goes for left and right too, down is probably not as big a deal.
But clearance is the main reason I put the joysticks and buttons so high up on the CP of A Little Rage. Don't want little fingers jammed.

[AndyWarne]

The mounting plate is somewhere out there, I've seen it. I think it runs $15-20 (with shipping) though, which hurts the budget build plan for this trackball.

Apologies if this comes across as an ad, but I cant help but think, if you add up all the costs of the trackball, plate, interface etc its approaching the price of a proper 3in arcade trackball which does not need a mounting plate eg: http://www.ultimarc.com/trackball.html

[MaxAsh]

Apologies if this comes across as an ad, but I cant help but think, if you add up all the costs of the trackball, plate, interface etc its approaching the price of a proper 3in arcade trackball which does not need a mounting plate eg: http://www.ultimarc.com/trackball.html

It's a nice option, but I think the costs are pretty far apart. If this plan works, as it has for others, I'll be sitting on about $25 shipped, no need for mounting plates, etc. And as much as the 3" you linked is nice, it wouldn't work in my situation without at least some elbow grease. I believe the clearance on the CP thickness is 3/4", which is not enough without at least a little routing work (CP+Lexan pushes me past 3/4"). Less effort than my plan, but also significantly more costly. Even if I pickup a mounting plate instead of going with the plan I have, I'd be sitting at $40. The trackball you linked, with shipping, hits $95. I agree it's nice, but not as cheap. If the Ultimarc one, shipped, was around $50 I'd buy one, but for less than half (maybe even 1/4 of the cost if I do this right) I'll try my current plan out. Thank you though, having more options is always a good thing!