G1 Transformers themed control panel - complete

[Procyon]

So lately I've been giving very strong consideration to getting back into this hobby.  My last project (http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Superion) is over 10 years old now.  It's held up fairly well, but it has a number of issues, and it's just kind of plain because I didn't feel confident that I could really do the whole illustration/plastic surface route.  But I'd really like to give it a shot, primarily because I cooked up these designs that I'm kind of in love with, and I'd love to try and make it a reality.

Thing is, like I said, the last time I tried to do any of this was 10 years ago.  The technical knowledge has stayed with me because I use MAME frequently enough, but the whatever success I had with the woodworking was mostly assistance and luck.  So in addition to trying to figure out how to add illustrations and a plastic top, I'm starting from scratch with the wood as well.  I'll start digging into tutorials soon enough, the hobby knowledge base certainly has matured in the last decade.

The control scheme layout that I'm using is based on Motorfish's work, which is basically the same as what I used back when I designed the original panel back in 2004.  I know that I'm going to stick with the pedestal design that's worked for me all these years.  It's sturdy, stable, and surprisingly portable once broken down.  Fact is, I just don't really have any space for an entire cabinet in my house, and the ability to hook this up to any display at any time (or even just shove the whole thing in a corner) is very appealing.  Plus I use the machine for console emulation as well, and prefer to be able to sit on the couch when I do so.

So here are some of the artwork options I concocted.  It starts with a very basic G1 Transformers box illustration theme, Autobot red to Decepticon purple gradient (with the upper black gradient as well) and the grid.  Then I found some illustrations.  The stuff that Takara is coming up with for the limited edition Cloud line is really nice.  Triple Changer Hot Rod and Starscream FTW   I started by just adding OP and Meg, and then I added HR and SS.  To my surprise, if I took the grid off, I didn't miss it as much as I thought I would.  I have all of these assets in layers, so they're easy enough to manipulate.  Please also note the blue/black stuff are just guides, they won't/shouldn't be on the final print.

Basically, I'm just looking for general feedback on the layout, suggestions or recommendations, and if someone could point me to good tutorials or how-to's for the illustration and plastic stuff.  One specific question: How do most of you conceal the bolts on the joysticks?  Do people just place the illustrations straight over them?  I did someone very specific for my previous joystick (drill hole for bolt, then drill 1/2 inch diameter hole 1/4 inch into the surface, put the bolt in, and then glue 1/2 inch wood circles to surface covering each bolt completely).  Thanks very much for any input.

[PL1]

Welcome back, Procyon.   

Basically, I'm just looking for general feedback on the layout, suggestions or recommendations, and if someone could point me to good tutorials or how-to's for the illustration and plastic stuff.  One specific question: How do most of you conceal the bolts on the joysticks?  Do people just place the illustrations straight over them?  I did someone very specific for my previous joystick (drill hole for bolt, then drill 1/2 inch diameter hole 1/4 inch into the surface, put the bolt in, and then glue 1/2 inch wood circles to surface covering each bolt completely).  Thanks very much for any input.

There are six different methods covered in the new FAQ for mounting joysticks.

Slagcoin has some good illustrations for making layered panels in addition to many button layouts.

For advice on working with plastics, Selfie has a stickied thread here in woodworking.

Frostillicus has a vector art tutorial here.


Scott

[ViriiGuy]

I love it!!!
I built a Transformers Pinball cabinet a couple years ago.
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-fan-art/889806-optimus-pin-transformers-pinball.html

The Second CP is my fav. Not too busy and still includes the G1 Gridwork.

[leapinlew]

Instead of completely black button locations, could you shade them so it's obvious they are the button area, but still allow you to see the artwork? It would make the artwork feel embedded instead of the controls as islands in the artwork.

[AzureKnight]

I like the second option best as well.  Having two characters gives it some personality without making it cluttered.

I like the grid, if you are worried about it being too prominent then perhaps you could make it a bit transparent to fade it into the background a bit.

Nice work!

[lamprey]

Welcome back, Procyon.   

Basically, I'm just looking for general feedback on the layout, suggestions or recommendations, and if someone could point me to good tutorials or how-to's for the illustration and plastic stuff.  One specific question: How do most of you conceal the bolts on the joysticks?  Do people just place the illustrations straight over them?  I did someone very specific for my previous joystick (drill hole for bolt, then drill 1/2 inch diameter hole 1/4 inch into the surface, put the bolt in, and then glue 1/2 inch wood circles to surface covering each bolt completely).  Thanks very much for any input.

Slagcoin has some good illustrations for making layered panels in addition to many button layouts.

I second the Slagcoin templates. After looking at your current design, perhaps it is preliminary, but I offer a word of caution about the button layout. I seem to see a lot of button layouts where the top row is offset to the right of the bottom row. I think this is very uncomfortable as my natural resting posture is to the left (using my right hand). So, as always, make some templates with cardboard and try it out for ergonomics before you commit.

As for the graphics, I too like the grid lines. This is all personal preference, but I like the background (anything that isn't outlining the joy sticks and buttons) to be a bit faded into the, well, background. I want the controls to be prominent with the background a bit more subdued and subtle. Basically, I want to be able to distinguish the control-related graphics from the background graphics. But, that is just my likes. 

Good luck with the build!

 

[Procyon]

In just 24 hours, I realize why I've missed this community.  As far as internet forums go, BYOAC is an oasis of civility and support.  You guys are awesome.  Thank you so much for all the replies.  I wanted to included my original GIMP xcf file for any of you who would like to play around with this design for yourselves, but apparently it's too big.  I'll compress it for you all later.

@PL1(Scott): That's exactly what I'm talking about, those guides didn't exist 10 years ago, or at best, they were in their infancy.  Thank you so much for posting them here for me (I'm sure they're in some sticky that I failed to locate.  If not, they should be.)

@ ViriiGuy: Yup, have totally seen examples of your project while search the forum for "Transformers Theme".  Your vPin machine is amazing.  Could you please tell me what material the illustration is printed on, and how to applied it to the surface?  Glad there's a fellow "geewonner" on the forum

@leapinlew: Yes, I updated the illustrations by giving the black a 50% opacity, and the blue a 25% opacity.  See below.  The black will definitely disappear from the final, it's just to give me an idea of what will be potentially blocked.  The blue with either change color or just go away.  Right now I'm leaning towards going away.

@AzureKnight: Thank you so much for the suggestion, you were absolutely right.  I dropped the grid's opacity by 50% and I found it much more pleasing.  See below.

@lamprey: Thanks for the input, ideally what I would like is to use the layout in Slagcoin's guide that is just above the text "standard Japanese arcade design" where buttons 2, 3, 6 and 7 form a perfect square, 1 and 5 are positioned halfway down, and 4 is just slightly below 3.  That's what I've been playing with on my previous controller, and I've become extremely comfortable with it.  As for background versus joystick indication, I think we'll disagree a bit since I want to pretty much eliminate control related graphics in order to let the background will pop.  But I can totally respect your point of view.

So now a question: I want to put illuminated buttons on this, and the autobot side should obviously be red.  Naturally, I want the decepticon side to be purple, but after a cursory search, it looks like purple buttons are a bit harder to come by.  Does anyone know of (and better yet, can recommend) a supplier that has purple illuminated buttons?

Question 2: It seems like when I'm finally ready to send this to whoever is going to print this out for me (after I figure out what material to go with), they're going to want this in 300dpi, is that correct?  When I started the project, I didn't realize that I was set to the GIMP default of 72dpi, so I'm pretty much going to have to start this over from scratch to do it the right way if that's the case.  I imagine it's better to do it in 300 dpi anyway, just for the quality.  Thanks again everyone.

[ViriiGuy]

Thanks! It has brought me much joy! And pain

I had Brad, Lucian print mine for me.
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,134866.0.html

It is on a 3m Air Release vinyl and the most beautiful thing ever! The application was a piece a cake. VERY nerve wracking at first, but really easy. Especially compared to working with normal vinyls.

And his price was awesome!

I like the first CP.

As for Purple, you could go with clear buttons and RGB leds. Then you can adjust to get just the shade you want.

[Speed Racer]

So now a question: I want to put illuminated buttons on this, and the autobot side should obviously be red.  Naturally, I want the decepticon side to be purple, but after a cursory search, it looks like purple buttons are a bit harder to come by.  Does anyone know of (and better yet, can recommend) a supplier that has purple illuminated buttons?

Question 2: It seems like when I'm finally ready to send this to whoever is going to print this out for me (after I figure out what material to go with), they're going to want this in 300dpi, is that correct?  When I started the project, I didn't realize that I was set to the GIMP default of 72dpi, so I'm pretty much going to have to start this over from scratch to do it the right way if that's the case.  I imagine it's better to do it in 300 dpi anyway, just for the quality.  Thanks again everyone.

Q1 You could try RGB illuminated buttons - they can light up ay any colour. Bit of work setting them up.

Q2 Yeah, definitely aim for higher res than 72dpi.

FYI I like the designs with just the two characters on them. It's just too busy otherwise, especially with the grid as well.

[Procyon]

@ViriiGuy: Sounds like I will have to get in touch with Brad.  Thanks for the tip.

@Speed Racer: Check and check, restarted the project at 300 dpi.  Although, with 33 inches in width, the file size is a quarter of a GB 

One more adjustment for tonight.  The change log:
* It's very clear that people prefer just OP and Megs, so I'm going to stick with that for now.  Thing is, I'm also a huge fan of Hot Rod and StarScream, so it will be a question of how long before I give in and put them back for my own satisfaction.   
* I got rid of those stupid dips in the upper corners, and rounded the whole thing out so that I could put the logos directly above where the 1P and 2P buttons will go.  Then I got to thinking... if I end up getting illuminated start buttons, perhaps instead of the traditional P1 and P2 logos, I could insert Autobot and Decepticon stencils instead.  So maybe those logos won't stick around after all. 
* I also moved the mouse buttons in closer to the trackball to give the artwork more space to shine. 
* Now that I'm doing this at 300 dpi, the grid has gotten considerably smaller, but stretched out over 33 inches, it shouldn't look bad at all.  The grid is every 100 pixels, so that works out to three squares per inch, which is roughly what the box art did.

[Slippyblade]

One more adjustment for tonight.  The change log:
* It's very clear that people prefer just OP and Megs, so I'm going to stick with that for now.  Thing is, I'm also a huge fan of Hot Rod and StarScream, so it will be a question of how long before I give in and put them back for my own satisfaction.   

Why not put Hot Rod and Starscream on the sides of the pedestal?  Or maybe even flanking the coin door or whatever you have on the front?

[PL1]

@PL1(Scott): That's exactly what I'm talking about, those guides didn't exist 10 years ago, or at best, they were in their infancy.  Thank you so much for posting them here for me (I'm sure they're in some sticky that I failed to locate.  If not, they should be.)

Thanks for reminding me to add a Slagcoin link in the FAQ.   


Scott

[ViriiGuy]

[/quote]

Why not put Hot Rod and Starscream on the sides of the pedestal?  Or maybe even flanking the coin door or whatever you have on the front?
[/quote]

^^ This. I love them. But they make the CP too cluttered.

[Procyon]

Why not put Hot Rod and Starscream on the sides of the pedestal?  Or maybe even flanking the coin door or whatever you have on the front?

This == genius.

I hadn't thought about how I would be decorating the rest of the pedestal.  The way my setup works, is the pedestal is open on the sides, and my desktop literally sits inside.  Right now the front wood panel has a bunch of random 80s sprites that I printed out on printable sticker paper.  I hadn't thought of what I will do to replace any of that, but if I have a second illustration printed out to paste over the front, problem solved.

@ViriiGuy: What material does Brad do the printing on, and how easy/hard do you think it is to attach to Plywood or MDF?  I'm in the process of deciding which material I want to build.  It sounds like since I won't be painting it (beyond spraypaint for any visible edge) and I'm leaving the panel fairly rectangular, I'm better off going with plywood, but I'd like to make sure that whatever I have the illustration printed on will stick well to the surface of whatever I purchase.

[ViriiGuy]

I do not know the exact film, but if you ask him.. I am sure he will tell you. But it was a 3m printable vinyl that had air release and was pressure activated. So when you got it where you wanted it and it looked good... You could squeegee it on for good. The bond is awesome. After a year and a half, of abuse.. my corners are still perfect.

[Procyon]

Thanks again ViriiGuy.  I place my order with Brad this morning.  Went with the polycarbonite finish since I figured I would get annoyed by fingerprints showing up.  I still need to get the wood from Home Depot, and I'm still on the hunt for purple LED buttons.  Are RGB buttons really worth the effort?  I wonder if putting a purple LED in a white button would work, or even just finding purple translucent buttons and putting a white LED in them would work.  I'm not against the idea of using RGB LEDs, it just seems silly to go that route when I plan on leaving the colors alone (once set.)

[ViriiGuy]

Awesome! I have no doubt you will be pleased!

How about these buttons?
http://www.focusattack.com/seimitsu-ps14-kn-30mm-screw-button-purple/

[Procyon]

Oh wow, nice find!  They look really cool, but from the appearance of them, they're pretty short.  Will I be able to get them screwed in through the holes I'm cutting in 3/4" plywood?  I'm trying to find dimensions for them so that I know exactly what size hole I'd need to cut...

[PL1]

Will I be able to get them screwed in through the holes I'm cutting in 3/4" plywood?

The PS-14-KN buttons 30mm buttons -- standard 1-1/8" buttons have a thread diameter of ~1.097" and use a 28mm (1.102") bit.

They are are very similar (interchangable cap) to Seimitsu PS-14-GN-C buttons that mount on 1/2" thick wood and have a thread diameter of ~1.165".


Scott

[Procyon]

Thanks Scott.  I'm starting to think I might be better off going with 0.5" thick plywood instead of 0.75" thick.  I'm pretty sure that's the thickness of my previous panel.

[PL1]

The downside to 1/2" is the increased amount of flex that you'll get with a 2-player-sized panel.

It may be a bit more work to route a pocket for the buttons, but you'll get a more sturdy result and you'll have more wiggle room if you decide to use threaded inserts to mount your sticks.   


Scott

[ViriiGuy]

Just route out the area under your CP, where the buttons will be to 1/2 inch. That way you have the rigidity of 3/4 and can use the shorter buttons.

*edit*
I really gotta start reading the ENTIRE rest of the thread before I reply I see PL1 already covered this.

[Procyon]

OK, it looks like I'm going to have to get very comfortable with routing.  So be it, I really want this panel to come out just right.

So today I had a huge "oh sh!t" moment when a friend jokingly tossed out an idea.  Well, to him it was a joke, I almost burst into tears that I didn't think of it myself.  And it was a "stop the presses" idea, but it was too late, Brad had already printed the first illustration out.  So I asked him to hold off on sending it, and he's going to do a new print for me.  Take a look below. 

ViriiGuy, I know you'll get it immediately.  That's the Autobot Matrix of Leadership.  It's obviously not in scale with Optimus or Megatron, but it is perfectly in scale with the trackball that's going to sit right there in the middle.  Can't believe I didn't think of it the first time around.  Yeah, the buttons are going to cut into the handle parts a little bit, but I don't care, I think that's going to look incredible with a blue LED illuminated trackball glowing in the middle.

EDIT: Lol, I inadvertently made an homage to this set: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:Convoy_megatron_vsx.jpg

[Gatsu]

Doooooood. That's a great idea. Can't wait to see that bad boy installed. Are gonna use an illuminated trackball?

[ViriiGuy]

That is AWESOME!!!!

I bought a pretty rare Matrix statue and used it as the topper on my Pinball Cabinet.

[Slippyblade]

Awesome idea with the matrix, very cool.  And don't panic about the routing.  It's not as bad as folks tend to think.  Just take your time and don't get intimidated by the router.  Patience and respect for the tool and you'll do fine.

[Procyon]

I'm beginning to think that my quest to illuminate the buttons was a bit lofty.  Especially considering the difficulty I'm having surrounding Decepticon-purple buttons.  Those clear purple Seimitsu buttons seem to have that ugly "X" artifact when lit, and it doesn't seem like there are any great tutorials that don't involve going the whole nine yards and buying RGB LEDs and an LED programming board.  That seems like a ton of work for very little payoff, considering I want to just leave the buttons one color all the time. 

I thought it would be as simple as shove a little light inside the casing of the button and viola, but everything I've seen involved drilling and soldering, plus the work to wire it up to the PCB and program it through Windows... Is there something simpler that I'm missing?  At this point I think I may just buy solid purple and solid red buttons...

[PL1]

For purple (red + blue) buttons, you can use RGB LEDs without a controller.

It will work with your choice of clear/Hoku IL's from Paradise, the Electric Ice 2's from GGG, Ultralux buttons from Ultimarc, etc.

Use the same buttons with red LEDs for P1.


Scott

[Procyon]

Gotcha, that's not a bad idea, thank you.  So Scott, I don't know how much of a wiring expert you are, but I have 0 experience doing this.  I've tried checking out the FAQ, and searching the forums, and I've pulled together a bit of knowledge but not enough to be complete.

If my understanding is correct, I would need to run a +5v line and a ground line up from my power supply, and if I have seven purple (R+B) and seven red (R) buttons, I would need to make 21 (3 x ((R+B) + R)) connections to the +5v line, and a bunch of wires daisy chained together for the grounds and I would be good to go, right?  No need for resistors or anything?

[Slippyblade]

Gotcha, that's not a bad idea, thank you.  So Scott, I don't know how much of a wiring expert you are, but I have 0 experience doing this.  I've tried checking out the FAQ, and searching the forums, and I've pulled together a bit of knowledge but not enough to be complete.

If my understanding is correct, I would need to run a +5v line and a ground line up from my power supply, and if I have seven purple (R+B) and seven red (R) buttons, I would need to make 21 (3 x ((R+B) + R)) connections to the +5v line, and a bunch of wires daisy chained together for the grounds and I would be good to go, right?  No need for resistors or anything?

Depends on the RGB LEDs you use.  Some have common anode, some common cathode.  On top of that, you wouldn't need to power the green part of the RGB LED at all.  Just the red and blue to get your purple.

[Procyon]

Depends on the RGB LEDs you use.  Some have common anode, some common cathode.  On top of that, you wouldn't need to power the green part of the RGB LED at all.  Just the red and blue to get your purple.

Right, I'm ignoring the G altogether.  With 14 LEDs, there would be a total of 42 (3 x 14) connections that could potentially be made.  However, I'm only using R+B of 7 LEDs, and R alone from the other 7, for a total of 21.  Does that sound right?

Also, I know I can daisy chain the grounds, can I daisy chain the +5v lines as well?  Or do they have to each connect straight to the incoming power line?

[Slippyblade]

and R alone from the other 7

Also, I know I can daisy chain the grounds, can I daisy chain the +5v lines as well?  Or do they have to each connect straight to the incoming power line?

Two things.  You can only daisy chain the grounds if your RGB LED's are common cathode.  If they are common anode like this then you need to run the grounds to your controller.  The other thing is why use RGB LED's on the red side?  Save some money and just use plain red LED's.  Much easier and cheaper.

[ViriiGuy]

He wants Purple.

[Procyon]

No, both Slippyblade and PL1 are correct.  PL1 was saying I could buy RGB LEDs and simply power the blue and red to get purple (well... magenta.  I won't get true purple without using some kind of LED board or using resistors), and Slippyblade is saying skip the RGB LEDs for the Autobot side and just buy plain red LEDs.

So I'm throwing my parts shopping list together.  Here's what I have so far:
2 x 8-way joysticks (type: Sanwa JLF + bat top)
1 x 4-way joystick with ball top (type: not sure yet)
1 x trackball with translucent blue ball (type: not sure, leaning toward U-Trak Pearl)
1 x spinner (type: not sure yet)
18 x Electric Ice 2 buttons (7 P1, 7 P2, 4 Mouse)
8 x Admin buttons (probably going with Seimitsu PS-14-KN with custom labels for P1, P2, coin, etc)

For electronics, I'm leaning towards the MiniPAC as that seems to have every connection that I would need.  Aside from the actual LEDs themselves, can anyone think of anything I'm missing?  Any recommendations for the "not sure" parts?  Looks like Focusattack.com is have a 15% off sale as soon as they come back online on Saturday, so I'd love to buy as much as I possibly can from them.

EDIT: Actually, wait... if I can buy plain red LEDs, couldn't I also buy "plain" purple LEDs?
EDIT2: Nevermind, a lot of the purple LEDs that I find online appear to have a poor viewing angle, and I read somewhere that you want a higher viewing angle.

[Slippyblade]

He wants Purple.

He wants half purple, half red.

...and the autobot side should obviously be red.  Naturally, I want the decepticon side to be purple,

[PL1]

Gotcha, that's not a bad idea, thank you.  So Scott, I don't know how much of a wiring expert you are, but I have 0 experience doing this.  I've tried checking out the FAQ, and searching the forums, and I've pulled together a bit of knowledge but not enough to be complete.

If my understanding is correct, I would need to run a +5v line and a ground line up from my power supply, and if I have seven purple (R+B) and seven red (R) buttons, I would need to make 21 (3 x ((R+B) + R)) connections to the +5v line, and a bunch of wires daisy chained together for the grounds and I would be good to go, right?  No need for resistors or anything?

It isn't that dificult to wire them up at all.

Most of the RGB LEDs that you get from arcade vendors will be common anode (+) -- usually the yellow or black wire -- with three cathode (-)  wires for red, green, and blue.



Most of them already have a current-limiting resistor built in -- check the description to be sure.

I think you can also add a variable resistor or two to "fine-tune" the color if needed. (Purple can be hard to get just right)

Once you pick the type of RGB LED you want to use, we can calculate the power requirements.


Scott

[PL1]

1 x trackball with translucent blue ball (type: not sure, leaning toward U-Trak Pearl)
1 x spinner (type: not sure yet)

The U-Trak is plug-and-play with the Mini-Pac Opti harness.

For the spinner, the TT2 from GGG is my personal favorite.   

18 x Electric Ice 2 buttons (7 P1, 7 P2, 4 Mouse)

4 mouse butons? Why have any mouse buttons?

The RGB LEDs that go with the EI2 buttons are either RGB-Drive II (20mA current draw per channel) or Helio9. (55mA current draw per channel)

8 x Admin buttons (probably going with Seimitsu PS-14-KN with custom labels for P1, P2, coin, etc)

You can custom-print inserts like these.

For electronics, I'm leaning towards the MiniPAC as that seems to have every connection that I would need.

Good choice.

Be sure to order the "Opti" version which has the headers and harness for the trackball/spinner.


Scott

[Procyon]

The U-Trak is plug-and-play with the Mini-Pac Opti harness.

For the spinner, the TT2 from GGG is my personal favorite.   

OK, cool, U-Trak and Mini-Pac ordered.  When purchasing the TT2 from GGG, should I order the spinner as a Slave?  Since I'm not going to use it individually, but as a component wired to the Mini-Pac board?  Or should I still order a Master?

4 mouse butons? Why have any mouse buttons?

I know it's purely a matter of personal choice, but based on my experience with my previous controller, I probably used my mouse buttons as frequently as my other pushbuttons.  I have a BT keyboard with a trackpad, but I find it more comfortable to just roll the trackball around and click with my CP mouse buttons when I'm browsing around the web.  Doubling up left and right mouse clicks on both sides of the trackball is more for aesthetics, but I would use both sides at different times, depending on the circumstance.

tl-dr: I make enough use of them to want them around.

[yamatetsu]

The Mini-Pac also handles mouse buttons. You should be able to connect maybe PL1 buttons 5 & 6 as mouse buttons to the MINI-Pac and
then in MAME simply change the control scheme so that PL1 button 5 is the left mouse button and PL1 button 6 is the right mouse button.

I don't know whether this works for Windows, too, I'll find out when I finish my cab.

[PL1]

When purchasing the TT2 from GGG, should I order the spinner as a Slave?  Since I'm not going to use it individually, but as a component wired to the Mini-Pac board?  Or should I still order a Master?

The Master+controller doesn't conflict with the Mini-Pac if you choose to run both at the same time, but for your setup I'm pretty sure you can connect the Slave to the Mini-Pac with male 0.1" header pns or you might be able to insert the pins from the slave cable into.the Opti harness connector body.

The Mini-Pac also handles mouse buttons. You should be able to connect maybe PL1 buttons 5 & 6 as mouse buttons to the MINI-Pac and
then in MAME simply change the control scheme so that PL1 button 5 is the left mouse button and PL1 button 6 is the right mouse button.

I don't know whether this works for Windows, too, I'll find out when I finish my cab.

The Mini-Pac has dedicated mouse button inputs in group J5 next to the optical inputs.


Scott