CP width | Joystick choices | Color matching joysticks and buttons

[Benzinbruder]

Hi Forum,

In the last few weeks, I've read tons about building your own arcade. I'd say it's time to start my own project, however, there are a few open questions that I'd like to discuss with you in advance.

The most important question probably concerns my CP.
According to the current state of my plans it will be only 600 mm wide (that's just short of 24 inch). Would you say that it is wide enough for a two player setup? Please see the attached sketch for my current button layout. I plan to add a few extra buttons on the front of the Cabinet (Coins, etc.).

The reason why I do not want to increase the width of the CP is the size of my monitor. It's only 500 mm wide. A huge bezel is not an option for me.


Another thing that I've wanted to ask the pro's in here:
Since the beginning of planning my cabinet, I've gone from Sanwa JLF to U360 to Seimitsu ball-top joysticks. I plan to play games like Cadillac and Dinosaurs, Metals Slug, Final Fight, a.s.o.. Bubble Bobble should be included here as well.
So, what would be the appropriate joystick? Would I need to use it in 4-way or 8-way mode?


Also, since I initially wanted the ball-top of the joystick to match the color of my buttons, I planned to use convex Sanwas. I have however reverted that decision and want to use convex Happ buttons now. It just seems more "original" to me, both from an optical and a haptic, "clicky" point of view. Is there a shop that offers ball-tops that match the color of the Happ buttons? It's important that the colors match because I want to realise a red/blue Player1/Player2 setup  and keep the rest of the arcade b&w pretty much all the way.

Thank's for helping me out, any further tips are appreciated as well!

[EMDB]

There are already lots of (recent) topics about joysticks to support a broad range of games. This one covers it all:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,138406.0.html

600mm is wide enough for a 2 player setup. Mine is a 600mm 2 player CP. I added 4 admin buttons and 2 player 1/2 buttons just to be sure. For now I mapped them to ESC (to exit a game), PAUSE, MUTE and SHIFT. I use SHIFT-UP/DOWN to control the volume, SHIFT-ESC to exit the frontend and SHIFT-PLAYER1 as a hidden insert coin (don't tell my kids):



To cover the broad range of games a 7 button layout is often used as it covers both 6 button fighter layouts and 4 on a row NeoGeo games layouts. On slagcoin (http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout.html) you find real layouts. Most people use them as template.

[Benzinbruder]

Well, first of all, it's pretty awesome that you are the first one replying to my first topic.
I've probably already spent a whole day reading though your building topic, studying hwo you did this and that, went from one artwork to another, etc. Thank you so much! You're a great inspiration!

Regarding joysticks, yes, I know there are already lots of different topics about it. Trust me, I've probably read most of them, and of course I have studied the slagcoin website already as well! My current button layout is based on one of the layouts that can be found there. Would you say the U360 is worth it compared to, say, a Sanwa or a Seimitsu? Will it work with side scrolling action games as will, given I use the appropriate restrictor?

It's great to hear that you also use a 600 mm wide CP. So in your experience that's ok for two players? Would you mind sharing some more details? Can I build my CP based on your layout? Have you ever used that seventh button? I wasn't sure if I would need it at all and given my limited amount of space I thought of omitting it.

I have also seen that you have shortened your CP during building your cab. What height is it now? Mine is around 290 mm, would that be large enough? Do you ever rest your palms on the CP?

Sorry for throwing so many new questions at you. I gotta use the chance! I just want to do things right.

[EMDB]

Well, first of all, it's pretty awesome that you are the first one replying to my first topic.
I've probably already spent a whole day reading though your building topic, studying hwo you did this and that, went from one artwork to another, etc. Thank you so much! You're a great inspiration!

Regarding joysticks, yes, I know there are already lots of different topics about it. Trust me, I've probably read most of them, and of course I have studied the slagcoin website already as well! My current button layout is based on one of the layouts that can be found there. Would you say the U360 is worth it compared to, say, a Sanwa or a Seimitsu? Will it work with side scrolling action games as will, given I use the appropriate restrictor?

It's great to hear that you also use a 600 mm wide CP. So in your experience that's ok for two players? Would you mind sharing some more details? Can I build my CP based on your layout? Have you ever used that seventh button? I wasn't sure if I would need it at all and given my limited amount of space I thought of omitting it.

I have also seen that you have shortened your CP during building your cab. What height is it now? Mine is around 290 mm, would that be large enough? Do you ever rest your palms on the CP?

Sorry for throwing so many new questions at you. I gotta use the chance! I just want to do things right.

I'm glad my topic inspires people. Other topics on this forum inspired me.

600mm is wide enough for 2 players to play.

I love having a stick which switches per game without me having to think about it. It might not be the genuine arcade feeling, its still a great solution for a multi game system. It works for all type of games although I'm not really into fighter games and some people who are seem to like other sticks better for that.

I use the seventh button a lot as it is my button 1  Most games use, 1, 2 or 3 buttons. My buttons are mapped 1-2-3-4 from bottom left. Only for some NeoGeo games I use the bottom 4 buttons and for fighters I use the right 6 buttons (3 on top and the 3 below). My CP is 285 mm deep which is enough. I ALWAYS rest my hands on the CP so the space below the buttons is very much needed. Don't move the sticks / buttons down too much.

Of course you may use my CP layout. It is based on Martijn's Streetfighter cab CP anyway.

[Benzinbruder]

Great to hear that.
Would you mind sharing your CP layout so I can fiddle around with it a bit?

A Google SketchUp file would be ideal, but I should be able to handle other files as well. Even a photo from top of your CP would do just fine I suppose.
I just want to get a rough idea how much spacing should be left from the bottom of the CP and where to place the admin buttons!

[EMDB]

Great to hear that.
Would you mind sharing your CP layout so I can fiddle around with it a bit?

A Google SketchUp file would be ideal, but I should be able to handle other files as well. Even a photo from top of your CP would do just fine I suppose.
I just want to get a rough idea how much spacing should be left from the bottom of the CP and where to place the admin buttons!

The sketchup of the whole cab: http://www.viperlook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Arcade-Cabinet.zip

It does not contain the layout of the CP though. I only have my artwork for that:

[severdhed]

here are my observations.  In general, i prefer the Sanwa JLW joystick.  It has removeable ball tops, nice throw distance, and works very well in both 8 way and 4 way mode.  Personally, i'd get the ultimarc Jstik version of the JLW because it doesn't require a screwdriver to switch from 4 to 8 way.  The U360s are very nice and dont require you to switch anything, but they just don't feel like the joysticks i remember using as a child.

 As for color matching, that is pretty tough.  i have looked around for a while and haven't been able to find any ball tops that perfectly match the happ button colors.  with the Sanwa ball tops, the red and orange matched pretty well, but blue and purple did not match at all.  after looking at a bunch of different sites, i ended up going with Hand candy balltops from GroovyGameGear.  they are just slightly larger than the stock sanwa balltops, but they look great and there is no seam around the middle.   they still don't match perfectly, but they are very close.  Here is a pic of my 4 player panel.  These are four JLWs with the hand candy ball tops and happ buttons...

it is a crappy picture of an unfinished panel, but i captures the color accuracy pretty well.



here is a link to a thread with some pics i took comparing the Sanwa balltops to the happ buttons and Hand Candy balltops..if that helps.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,133585.msg1375978.html#msg1375978

[Benzinbruder]

@EMDB
Thank's again for your advice!
I have tried to rebuild your CP layout in SketchUp based on your artwork and have modified mine a bit.

My CP layout was based on
http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout/hybrid36_m.png
but without the pinky finger buttons as I had read they aren's used so much and less is better regarding button count most of the time.

Based on your artwork I have now worked out three possible ways of adding a seventh button to allow a more natural play style for Neo Geo games.


@severdhed
Thank you so much for providing the images with the color comparisons!  That's what I was looking for. I had searched the forum for something like this, but couldn't find anything like it.
Seems that if I go with HAPP buttons, I'll have to stick with black or maybe yellow for the ball tops as the other colors just don't really match with the buttons. I'm very picky regarding that.
Shame that HAPP (or any other manufacturer of concave buttons?) doesn't offer ball tops.

As to the choice of the joysticks in general, I'm still not sure which option would work best for me. I do not really remember the feel of the "real" arcade buttons of the earlier days, as arcades weren't really common where I lived. I am building my arcade memories on holidays in other countries mostly... :-)
So maybe the U360 is the best option for me. JLWs are hard to find, I am not really sure where I could order them with reasonable shipping costs to Europe.


@ everybody
What do you think of my current CP layouts? Most probably I'll place the admin buttons on the front side of the cabinet. That would give me the option to increase the space between control buttons and the bottom of the CP to leave more space to rest my palms on. Would this be necessary or helpful in you opinion?

Gonna choose the layout and type of buttons and joysticks soon. I see there's not much to it tinkering with that kind of questions without actually building stuff. I feel it's time to start and get things done.

[Benzinbruder]

Oh, and btw, here is my current cabinet layout:



Width is 600 mm.
It is based on http://www.koenigs.dk/mame/eng/stepprojectmame.htm, but I have modified it here and there.
Notice that my speakers will face directly to the front (I plan to mount them in the 120 mm vertical section above the bezel).

I have also increased the front part of the arcade where the the CP sits on.

[EMDB]

@ everybody
What do you think of my current CP layouts? Most probably I'll place the admin buttons on the front side of the cabinet. That would give me the option to increase the space between control buttons and the bottom of the CP to leave more space to rest my palms on. Would this be necessary or helpful in you opinion?

Gonna choose the layout and type of buttons and joysticks soon. I see there's not much to it tinkering with that kind of questions without actually building stuff. I feel it's time to start and get things done.

I like the 3th layout the most. I based my layout on http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/layout/hori365_l.png and omitted the top left button. I think the space below the control buttons is more than enough to rest your hands, even including the admin buttons on the main CP. Regarding the cabinet itself: very nice modifications but I would keep the marquee angle flush with the long sloping part below it. Are you gonna use rectangular shaped speakers otherwise 12cm will be too small to fit decent round speakers.

[Benzinbruder]

I changed the marquee angle because I thought this would look better, especially after increasing the height of the cabinet. I'll change that back.

I have some rectangular desktop speakers that will fit the 120 mm section nicely. If I ever swap them with other speakers I could still mount them behind the marquee, facing downwards(?).


[Update]

Here are the updated plans of my cabinet:


The width is 600 mm.
The layout is based on http://www.koenigs.dk/mame/eng/stepprojectmame.htm.

[shponglefan]

IMHO, 600mm (~23.6") is a bit cramped.  Some people will say that traditional arcades were only ~2 feet wide, and that's fine when we were kids/skinny teenagers.  But for average sized adults these days, 2 feet is cramped.  I'd probably go at least 750mm  (~30 inches).

Of course it also depends on how often you're likely to be using it with 2 players.  If you're mostly using it single player, then I'd worry less about the spacing.

[Benzinbruder]

That's one of the reasons why I initally started this thread. I too was afraid that 600 mm would be a bit small. Reading that EMDB's cabinet, which is certainly one of my main inspirations, is of the same width though, and hearing him reporting that it was ok for him and his kids, told me that it should be ok to build it this way.

I had some plans making it 700 mm wide, but the thing is that my 16:10 monitor has only around 500 mm visible width. Reduce the black bars when viewing a 4:3 image and imagine how this would look in a bigger cabinet. I just do not want the bezel to be too large.

So it is more like a question: 600 mm with the equipment I have or 700+ mm and buying a new monior or screen...

[severdhed]

when i started my first mame cabinet project, i bought an empty cabinet to start with, which had a 24" control panel.  I tried setting that up with a 2 player 6 button configuration, but it just felt too crowded for me and my adult friends to use comfortably.  I ended up cutting the sides of the cabinet out a little and building a control panel box to accommodate a 30" wide panel, which works quite well for me.

as for the JLWs, you can get them from Andy at Ultimarc in England. They are called the J-Stik because he modifies them so that you can turn the restrictor without loosening the screws.

[EMDB]

when i started my first mame cabinet project, i bought an empty cabinet to start with, which had a 24" control panel.  I tried setting that up with a 2 player 6 button configuration, but it just felt too crowded for me and my adult friends to use comfortably.  I ended up cutting the sides of the cabinet out a little and building a control panel box to accommodate a 30" wide panel, which works quite well for me.

as for the JLWs, you can get them from Andy at Ultimarc in England. They are called the J-Stik because he modifies them so that you can turn the restrictor without loosening the screws.

For me 600mm is wide enough but indeed most of the time my cab is played by 1 player and for the occasionally 2 player games it will do. Yes wider would be better but I think with the shape and size of the cab 600mm is a good width.

[Felsir]

One of the things you can do to verify if it's cramped or not is make a cardboard mockup of the panel.

[yotsuya]

24 inches is just fine, unless you have some Howard Hughes-type aversion to touching people. 

[Unstupid]

Don't color match your joystick to your buttons.... Color match your joystick to your t-molding!   

[rekonga]

Hi! I would like to ask if a cp 564mm x 180mm is big enougb for 2 players and a small trackball (105mm wide).