USB vs. IPac for control wiring

[Gatsu]

I'm in the planning phase of a new arcade cab project. Since my Vewlix cab project was basically destroyed, I've been rethinking everything about the kind of cab I want and how it will work.

I originally wanted to run both a PC and a console...either a PS3 or an Xbox 360. But most if not all the fighters I want to play are available on PC now. So I may stick with just a PC.

If I do stick with just a PC, would it be better to use an Ipac for wiring the controls? Or would it be better to use a USB type interface card like the PS360 (essentially building for potentially adding a console)? The cab will only feature 2 players, 9 buttons per player and I definitely want a functioning coin door.

I'm building the control panel so it's easily removable (magnets!). So I could potentially have a different style panel for several different types of games. Neo-Geo, dedicated Mortal Kombat style, Street Fighter....etc.

What would you all suggest?

[Fursphere]

Ultimarc sells console adapters for their interface boards...  Just a thought.

http://www.ultimarc.com/psx.html

[AndyWarne]

The I-PAC is a USB device. It does also support PS/2 and auto-detects the interface being used. Its perfectly possible to use it in USB mode to a PC and also to a console adaptor, via PS/2, using a keyboard switch.

[BadMouth]

Most of the PC games revolve around the xbox 360 controller.
Keyboard support for both players simultaneously is sketchy, especially with the Capcom games.
However, using x360ce controller emulator they'll all work flawlessly with a keyboard encoder.

Look at the "SFIV keyboard patch" stickied in the software forum.
That's just the x360ce driver and ini file without the rest of the program.

It will also work with input devices that show up as gamepads, but I don't think it is compatible with all of them.
I wouldn't buy anything unless it works with x360ce.
I'm even using it for games that have full keyboard support because they require you to press Enter or the Spacebar at some point and don't allow you to remap those.  But the game accepts start or A on the virtual xbox360 controller for the same thing.

...or you could just use hacked xbox360 fight pads. 
The only issue I can think of with those might be the Taito Type X games.
I'm sure a quick google search would give you the answer.

The other oddball thing you'll run into is how the game handles the A & B buttons for accept and back.
I have my A & B on the top row and X & Y on the bottom row (my buttons are translucent with labels on the inserts).
After remapping the controls, some games will keep the default A &  B for accept and back regardless of how you've remapped the game controls.
Others will switch it to go along with however you've remapped the controls (MKK IIRC). 
It's not that much of an inconvenience, but if you want everything to be consistent, lay your buttons out like a SFIV fightpad.


Another important thing to know when having more than six buttons is that by default, MAME assumes you have the following layout:
123
456
Map the buttons globally like that and nearly all the fighting games will be mapped correctly without having to remap them individually.
 
Do it like I did (the wrong way):
1234
567
...and you'll be remapping all the fighting games (except for NEO GEO ones) individually.
I had already remapped too many games individually by the time I figured this out, but the best practice is to always keep those core six in that format and make any extra buttons #7 and #8 like so:
1237
456
or
1237
4568

Saves a lot of hassle in remapping all the Capcom fighters and Mortal Kombat, at least in newer versions of MAME.


EDIT: One more thing to note on PC fighting games: Games For Windows Live Marketplace has been closed permanently as of August this year.
If you buy anything other than the Steam versions of SFIV, SFIVAE, or SFxTekken, you will be unable to get any DLC for it.
Sometimes these games come up cheap on Amazon, and they've been the Games for Windows Live only version.
They still work and you can still connect to GFWL and play online, but no DLC. 
I bought all of them directly from Capcom, so I'm in that boat.  (not that I would purchase the DLC anyway)

[Fursphere]

Most of the PC games revolve around the xbox 360 controller.

Do you know of any emulators - today - that can't use gamepad inputs?  I keep coming back to this thought that the keyboard encoder is the wrong way to go today.   Or at a minimum you really need both in your cabinet.

I-Pac for the admin buttons
A-Pac for the controller input (joystick + buttons)

I know this ends up costing a bit more in the long run (extra $40) - but I'm just seeing so many examples where I want BOTH styles available. 

[PL1]

I keep coming back to this thought that the keyboard encoder is the wrong way to go today.   Or at a minimum you really need both in your cabinet.

I-Pac for the admin buttons
A-Pac for the controller input (joystick + buttons)

I've been looking into eventually adapting the 2-axis analog KADESTICK firmware to make a composite USB device that has 4 admin keystrokes and the rest of the inputs are the same as the KADESTICK.

If we can figure that out, the ~$80 price tag for your proposed configuration drops to ~$15 per player. 

In the mean time, you can use the KADESTICK firmware on an ATMega32U4 AVR for the analog/gamepad and the KADE firmware on another AVR to handle the keyboard.


Scott

[Fursphere]

Ultimately I'd like some way to flip back and forth between gamepad and keyboard intputs - but I haven't come up with a good way yet. 

I knwo the UltraStik 360s + I-Pac is basically just this, but I'm not sure I want Ultrastiks (yet).  I need to get off my arse and just order one to play with...  but damn I'm lazy.   

[PL1]

What if there was a way to have gamepad outputs as the regular outputs (unshifted) and keyboard outputs as shifted outputs (using HWB on the KADE) or vice versa?

You could use a rocker or toggle switch on HWB to switch between regular and shifted outputs.


Scott

[Gatsu]

I've got an older PS/2 Ipac that I've had for a few years now. I can just use that for the admin buttons & coin door and use 2 PS360 pcbs for the player controls. I've already got one so I can just order a second one for player 2. That way I can just unplug from the pc into whatever console I want in the cab pretty easily and quickly.

What particular admin buttons should I focus on? I don't want to have a ton of buttons on the control panel other than the 2 player starts and 16 player buttons.

[BadMouth]

I like having a dedicated exit button instead of having to explain a button combo to people.  ....and that's it for admin buttons!
Sometimes it would be nice to have a pause button, but I always end up leaving it off because it doesn't work for all emulators.
On my current build I did map a key combination to pause MAME, but I won't bother telling guests about it.

Because this build was arcade-only and broken down into gamelists by genre, I included dedicated buttons to switch gamelists.
Normally wouldn't do that.  It's something unique to this cab.  They also double as coin buttons if I don't feel like messing with quarters.

I also considered save/load buttons, but not all games support it, people wouldn't know how to use it, and it's not really how the arcade games were meant to be played. The exception being the Neo Geo memory card which is fully emulated in MAME.  I might still work that in somehow since I'm building a Neo Geo themed cab, but would just use a key combo otherwise.  Guests don't need to know about the feature.

Anything else is a one-time adjustment and can be handled with a wireless keyboard.

[Fursphere]

Sometimes it would be nice to have a pause button, but I always end up leaving it off because it doesn't work for all emulators.

So..  HyperLaunch 3 has a module (AHK script) that'll pause *ANYTHING*  I haven't gotten it working yet (haven't tried), but its supposed to work great.

[spratkobasa]

Ultimately I'd like some way to flip back and forth between gamepad and keyboard intputs - but I haven't come up with a good way yet. 

I knwo the UltraStik 360s + I-Pac is basically just this, but I'm not sure I want Ultrastiks (yet).  I need to get off my arse and just order one to play with...  but damn I'm lazy.   

This is the exact problem I have now.  I have 4 u360 sticks hooked up to usbs.  All buttons are hooked up to IPAC4.  I go into anything but mame and it looks for the gamepad buttons rather than my IPAC 4 buttons.  Am I just going to have to rewire all my player buttons to a button harness?

[Fursphere]

Ultimately I'd like some way to flip back and forth between gamepad and keyboard intputs - but I haven't come up with a good way yet. 

I knwo the UltraStik 360s + I-Pac is basically just this, but I'm not sure I want Ultrastiks (yet).  I need to get off my arse and just order one to play with...  but damn I'm lazy.   

This is the exact problem I have now.  I have 4 u360 sticks hooked up to usbs.  All buttons are hooked up to IPAC4.  I go into anything but mame and it looks for the gamepad buttons rather than my IPAC 4 buttons.  Am I just going to have to rewire all my player buttons to a button harness?

I don't know if this would work.  but...

Get a 4 port USB hub (or bigger, probably powered as well).  Plug the U360s into that.    Setup the iPAC4 for USB (get the adapter cable).   Then get a USB switch box.  Plug the hub into one side, and the iPAC4 into the the other side.

So then with the switch box you could basically swap back and forth?  In theory?