1988 Sega Hot Rod

[dmworking247]

My latest all-too-impulsive purchase is a 1988 Sega Hot Rod 4 player driving cabinet, or saw it listed on ebay.

I feel mixed about this one. I love the unique cabinet and remember being in awe of it when I saw it at Hoyts Cinemas in George Street, Sydney during the 90s, so its a real nostalgic cabinet for me, quite a collectors piece.

The down side is that it cost me a lot more than I can realistically afford and probably than its worth, and takes up so much floor space (on all sides) that Ill likely have to rethink my wishlist for my limited gamesroom space.

The next conflict is although its so collectable, I cant justify this much space for a single game, so my controversial plan is to MAME it, albeit in a reversible manner using the arcade display and keep the original sys24 hardware in storage. Im thinking all of the top down racers like champ sprint and iron man would be awesome on this cabinet. The main side could also be used for most single player mame drivers.

Im interested in peoples thoughts on this project. Am I the only one who likes the game and/or cabinet? Is MAME sacrilege? What do you think its really worth as is? What challenges am I up against interfacing with (or later servicing) its medium resolution display (24hz)?



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[BadMouth]

My first thought is "yeah, mame that sucker...Ivan Stewart's Offroad...woohoo!"

On second thought though, I don't see how a nitro button could be added without hacking up the machine.
(at least not in a way that looks correct)

For me, it would depend on whether extra buttons could be added and how many games it would support.
This spreadsheet might be helpful in identifying 360 degree wheel games and what other controls they require:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq37CSO6oe1fdERrVGt0emFCWnh1WDBiaFdoUmcweHc&usp=sharing

If it were mine, I'd probably hack it up and add all the extra controls needed to support all 360 degree wheel games. 

As for the monitor, people use them all the time, but I've never used one that wasn't plug and play.
There is a monitor sub-forum here that has some experts who could give you a straight answer.

[Fursphere]

If the colord panels are metal, see if you can stick a magnet to them.   If that works, think about removable magnet "button boxes".    That way you wouldn't have to hack it up.

[TopJimmyCooks]

On second thought though, I don't see how a nitro button could be added without hacking up the machine.
(at least not in a way that looks correct)

if you need a single button for nitro, make it a heavy duty momentary at the end of travel of the gas pedal, so you push the pedal all the way down, then press a little harder and click, nitro. 

[Malenko]

if you need a single button for nitro, make it a heavy duty momentary at the end of travel of the gas pedal, so you push the pedal all the way down, then press a little harder and click, nitro.

That'd work, but would suck for Ivan Steward, Ive always rapid tapped nitro to play catch up when needed.

[gpasko]

I think everyone who's commented so far is in agreement.  It would be great to have added games, but not at the expense of hacking the control panel.  Cocktail cabinets are a love/hate thing for me.  If you got the room nothing is cooler than playing with a friend across from you...  Really cool cabinet BTW!!!  I'd personally leave it alone even if you could add MAME w/o messing it up.  I'd start off with a scratch build or not-so-super-rare-classic.  Could you sell it for what you paid and start with something else?

[Fursphere]

On second thought though, I don't see how a nitro button could be added without hacking up the machine.
(at least not in a way that looks correct)

if you need a single button for nitro, make it a heavy duty momentary at the end of travel of the gas pedal, so you push the pedal all the way down, then press a little harder and click, nitro.

That is a great idea!   

[Barry Barcrest]

I loved that game in the arcade, I don't think it would really work as a cabinet for much else other than maybe classic sprint. Champion Ship and Super Sprint like Iron Man stewarts need all the players facing the screen in a certain way. I mean it would work but only 1 player would be viewing the screen properly.

[geecab]

4 player Warlords would run great on it 

[dmworking247]

Thanks for the great feedback guys. I got the machine home today (its a heavy unit!!) and Im happy to report the cabinet, controls and decals are in quite good condition. The picture looks bright and stable, and colours are good after a manual degaus, it could do with a tiny focus adjustment (if I can find a control) but nothing major.The glass has a couple of minor scuffs but nothing distracting. One day I might replace it with some smoked/tinted glass which always does wonders.

The biggest challenge is going to be dismantling the cabinet enough to fit through a standard door so that I can get it out of my garage, but I think it can be done.

Tonight I played a bunch of other 3 player racers on my mame cabinet like badlands, championship and super sprint, and of course off road. I cant pass up the chance to put these great games into this awesome form factor with the proper controls, so it looks like its destined for a (totally reversable) mame conversion. I do need to look into the worrying problem though that (at least on my mame .136 build) the 4 player japan hotrodj rom has no sound !

I plan to use optipacs for the wheels and the analog pedals, and I might try that idea of a momentary button at the floor of the pedal for games with a digital control (if mame cant be forced to accept the analog). I reckon a removable button panel will not be too hard to achieve and will not permanently alter the cabinet.

The biggest challenge ahead for me is the video conversion. Ive fixed plenty of arcades and built LOTS of mame rigs but have so far avoided the conversion of a PC video output into a pure arcade monitor (and im not sure if the medium res complicates anything). I already have a jpac, 2 optipacs, and a couple of ipacs at my disposal... so I guess finding the right video card is next on the list, and picking up a suitable second hand PC (I've run out of scrap PC parts 

The conversion might the some time as money is tight and I've over capitalised on this one, but at least I can enjoy Hot Rod in the mean time!!!

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[BadMouth]

I plan to use optipacs for the wheels and the analog pedals, and I might try that idea of a momentary button at the floor of the pedal for games with a digital control (if mame cant be forced to accept the analog). I reckon a removable button panel will not be too hard to achieve and will not permanently alter the cabinet.

The opti-pac is for optical encoders only.  I believe the pedals use potentiometers, so you'll need an A-Pac for those.  (some old games did use optical encoders for the pedals)
Ultimarc also has the U-HID which can be configured to accept any type of input, but I think you'd need more than one.
If it were me, I'd go the Opti-Pac/A-Pac route because they're simpler.  They just show up as mice/joysticks respectively without having to be configured.

The A-Pac/U-HID supposed to work with the original pots, but someone had an issue a while back where MAME wouldn't pick up the movement unless they used a pot with a higher resistance than the 5k arcade one.  They could have just had a bad pot, but keep it in mind.

[TopJimmyCooks]

i just used an ultimarc uHID with a new happ flight stick (5k pots) and it works very well.  full range of motion and control.  This is all brand new stuff. 

[dmworking247]

Thanks for the tips. I should have realised that the pedals used pots and wouldn't be suitable for the optipac.

The good news of course is that I can fit all of the wheels onto the one Optipac, which probably means its less likely for MAME to get the sequence messed up (this happens on my MAME cabinet from time to time with multiple mouse devices like lightguns, trackball etc).

For the pedals, do you recommend the uHID nano (8 input pins) or the APAC-version1? They are both similarly priced, but the full U-HID is overkill (in price and function) for the sake of 4 analog pedals, especially given the hardware I already have here (Optipac for the wheels, and JPAC for video and some digital inputs).

[TopJimmyCooks]

on a Nano, if you tie all your +5v wires to one pin and all your grounds to another you should have 6 pins available for pot's so it should work. 

[dmworking247]

After reading the manual the good news is that the monitor is dual res so I can take it down to cga for a mame setup. Ive already ordered a suitable video card and already have a JPAC.

I must confess though to being confused about all this monitor and refresh rate business, despite reading several threads on the topic.

The general consensus seems to be that by avoiding MAME stretching and allowing the video card to ouput the native resolution of the game, you get a more authentic picture, and the difference is particularly pronounced for older, lower res games.

However if this original hot rod cab was designed to run at 24/EGA, and similar games like Championship sprint are also obvioualy higher res than say, donkey kong... arent I simply reversing the same problem now by MAME trying to spit out HOT ROD onto a monitor now configured for 15/CGA?

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[mattcallen]

Hi,
I purchased a 4 player Hot Rod and haven't been able to get it working.  think it's the disc cuz it worked when I bought it but not once it got home (jolted/scratched disc?).
Any tips/ideas? I'm a novice when it comes to fixing games but would love to get this working
Thanks
Matt
matt@icecreamman.com

[PL1]

Welcome aboard, Matt.   

Any tips/ideas?

Yes.  Post more details/pics.       (Picture calling a doctor and saying, "I'm sick.  What's your diagnosis?"    )

Are there any indications that the game is getting power? (coin return lamps, monitor glow, etc.)

Does it "play blind"? (game starts and you hear the sounds, but nothing shows on the monitor)

Do you see neck glow on the back of the CRT?

Better info ==> better diagnosis.   


Scott

[mattcallen]

Thanks for the reply Scott,
Honestly, I'm not even sure of the exact details since I've been separated with the machine for years.  It's in my friend's warehouse.
I know it doesn't boot, I believe it makes a very annoying beeping sound when you start it up.
For the Sega System 24 hardware (?) it seems like the floppy disc and encryption (?) were the issues.
Most people with Hot Rod machines seem to know about this yet no one has seemed to be able to fix/master it (or copy the disc to make a usable/shareable version)
I'm gonna keep plucking away at this and hopefully I'll be able to play it one day
Matt

[GamesRoomMaker]

I'm just going to put this out here, would either you like to sell me your hot rod? Easily my favourite machine of all time