OMNI-Stik PRODIGY (TM) - New Product Announcement

[RandyT]

I haven't been participating here lately as much as I would have liked, and this is part of the reason.

The currently available solutions to the 4-way / 8-way joystick problem have always left me feeling like there was a "better way", so I went to work on one of my own.  The goal was to create one that was self-contained, easy to install and most importantly, switchable between true 4 and 8 way modes from the top of the control panel.   It's been a long road, but it's finally finished and it has surpassed all of my expectations.

The OMNI-Stik PRODIGY (TM) Arcade Joystick Systems will go on sale tomorrow, and cost $34.95 each.  They are available with Red, Blue and Black sticks.  There's more info at the website, so I won't drag it all into this post.

Saint has the very first production unit on the way to him as I write this (are you listening, Saint?)  Once again, it's good to be Saint  .

RandyT

[paigeoliver]

What provides the resistance, a rubber grommet or a spring?

Also, is the 4-way movement path properly shorter than the 8-way one? So far every switchable stick I have tried has had a longer throw in 4-way mode.

Does the bolt pattern match the Wico/Happ pattern.

Is this a completely new design, or are you modifying another manufacturers stick? (The handle looks familiar).

If it does have a rubber grommet, the Happ/Wico bolt pattern, and a shorter throw in 4-way mode then I can see this being a very successful product.

Of course, you will still never solve the basic problem of getting your friends to play 4-way games in 4-way mode and 8-way games in 8-way mode.  

[RandyT]

What provides the resistance, a rubber grommet or a spring?

Spring.  Are grommet based sticks even produced anymore?

Also, is the 4-way movement path properly shorter than the 8-way one? So far every switchable stick I have tried has had a longer throw in 4-way mode.

The throw on this stick is "ever so slightly" longer in 4-way mode.  This is a "precision" stick with a comfortably short throw all around, so the difference is unperceivable during use....except that things actually move where you expect them to in 4-way mode

Does the bolt pattern match the Wico/Happ pattern.

It is not a "drop-in" replacement for an existing stick.  It's a complete system that requires it's own mounting considerations.  That's not to say that an existing panel can't be retro-fitted, because it can, as long as there is physically enough room for the unit.

Is this a completely new design, or are you modifying another manufacturers stick? (The handle looks familiar).

No, it is based on an existing design.  I didn't have the $125,000 for the injection molds to make my own

If it does have a rubber grommet, the Happ/Wico bolt pattern, and a shorter throw in 4-way mode then I can see this being a very successful product.

Don't set fire to the sofa before you take a seat .  These are different from the usual Happ fare, but that's not a bad thing.  Like anything "different" there is a short adjustment period.  After using this stick for a few months, I can tell you that these more closely approximate the "retro" gaming experience than the Happ sticks, and I have no inclination to ever use the "bat" sticks again.  I haven't found a single game where I felt it was more playable with those types of sticks over these, in fact usually the opposite is true.

Of course, you will still never solve the basic problem of getting your friends to play 4-way games in 4-way mode and 8-way games in 8-way mode.  

The first time they see the difference between using it and not, you'll never have to remind them again  

RandyT

*edit*
The usual typos  

[Frostillicus]

WOW.  Now that makes sense.  I concept that's been kicked around for awhile, but a nice NEW and professional product - will consider it for future cabs definitely.  Thanks for the cool offering RandyT

[menace]

Send one to Kev Steele for a review I'd be curious how well the system works (not to mention he makes such neat videos )

I have been toying with modifying my j-stick for "above-panel" switching--this seems to be a more elegant solution.

[RandyT]

Send one to Kev Steele for a review I'd be curious how well the system works (not to mention he makes such neat videos )

I have been toying with modifying my j-stick for "above-panel" switching--this seems to be a more elegant solution.

Kevin will have one heading his way very soon.  

RandyT

[soslo]

This looks like a cool product...no need to have that extra dedicated 4 way in the middle of a panel...

Hrmm, I am bookmarking your page because when I do the cocktail, this looks like the answer I've been looking for.

[Pungo76]

Looks pretty sweet.  Do you have an available dimensioned drawing for installation, was wondering if it would fit into my existing panel with a little tweaking.  Also is there any way to use the stick as a 4-way diagnol style stick, without mounting it at an angle of course.  Thanks.

Matt

[Wade]

RandyT,

   Great way to tackle such a problem!  My only concern would be that the stick doesn't look more like a common 4-way or 8-way (or have different stick tops/balls available).  Depending on the theme someone goes for in their cab, it would be nice to be able to match it (for instance, if someone makes a pac replica they will probably want a stick that looks like a pac stick).

   I would expect these to be popular.  I'm very happy with my J-sticks, but my panel is set up in such a way to make switching trivial and very quick (no tools, takes about 10 seconds).  But for many people that isn't an option.

   Good luck, if these are in the same league as the Keywhiz then I'm sure buyers will be happy with the product.

Wade

[JustMichael]

Pungo76,  I prefer using an 8-way stick as a 4-way diagonal stick.  In Mame you can do this by making Mame accept only the diagonal directions. Here is an example for qbert:
Hit "Tab" and go down to "Input (this game)"
Go down to P1 Right and hit "Enter"
Now hit the down arrow then right after that hit the right arrow (it should say "Down Arrow Right Arrow" in just a couple seconds)
Now do the same for the other directions but use:
P1 Left:  Left Arrow Up Arrow
P1 Up:  Up Arrow Right Arrow
P1 Down:  Down Arrow Left Arrow

If you make a mistake, just select the line again and press "ESC" to reset the control to its normal key.

Once you have done this, qbert is tons of fun with an 8-way stick!

[iwillfearnoevil]

Pungo76,  I prefer using an 8-way stick as a 4-way diagonal stick.  In Mame you can do this by making Mame accept only the diagonal directions.

Can you make mame ignore diagonals to turn an 8-way into a 4-way? And to keep this ontopic, i look forward to any reviews and i'll be starting a cocktail project soon and maybe this is a good compromise.

[RandyT]

Looks pretty sweet.  Do you have an available dimensioned drawing for installation, was wondering if it would fit into my existing panel with a little tweaking.  Also is there any way to use the stick as a 4-way diagnol style stick, without mounting it at an angle of course.  Thanks.

The top plate is exactly 5" square and the mounting holes are 4.5" square on centers. The actual template will be downloadable soon.

And,  you will be very pleasantly surprised at how well diagonals work on these in 8-way mode. No extra adjustments required.

RandyT

[Spaced Invader]

Those are sweet. I've already noted some changes to a planned vert cab. Prodigy on the left, basic Omni on the right, and four buttons each--that should cover nearly every vertical game out there. You just saved me from having to build two vertical cabs.

[JustMichael]

jened, you can BUT instead of the game ignoring the diagonals (like in Donkey Kong), Mame will ignore the diagonals.  What this means is Mame will send no key to the game when a diagonal is pushed.

Example:
Up: Up, Left, Left, Right, Right.  This will make Up to "Up Arrow not Left Arrow not Right Arrow"
 
You can make Mame favor certain directions.  Here is an example:
For Up: Up then wait till it goes back to the list then hit enter and then up then right and wait till it goes back to the list then hit enter then up and then left.  It should now say "Up Arrow or Up Arrow Right Arrow or Up Arrow Left Arrow"

I also look forward to the reviews of the new joystick.

[Jakobud]

Looks very cool and intriguing.  Although I would almost definately buy it if you could somehow interchange the shaft and handle with something else.  That handle on there is very popular in Europe if I'm not mistaken and I'd love it if the handle was the same as say, the original Pac Man replacement handler/shaft... Anyways, great product. I might get one anyways

[KevSteele]

Randy,

Thanks.  This joystick will go great with the Joystick Roundup I'm working on!

In fact, I'm now tempted to start planning how to hack my new SlikStik Classic to fit this new joystick in...

Very cool idea, btw, and may I say it's about time someone did this!

Kevin

[Grasshopper]

Hmm, interesting idea. Presumably it's a modified Suzo series 500.

Would you be offering conversion kits for people who already own Suzo 500 sticks? The saving would be presumably be small but this might be a way to keep shipping costs down.

I can however see a potential problem. I think the Suzo 500 joysticks work best and look better when they are sunk into the control panel so that the ball top is at a similar height to the old Wico sticks. However if you mount the Prodigy joystick in this way then the lever for switching between 4 and 8 way mode is going to get buried. I am of course assuming that the pictures on your website are an accurate representation of the final product.

I also agree with the comments about the handle. It's purely a question of aesthetics. The Suzo handles are actually very comfortable but because the shaft is tapered it's not easy to fit a dust washer so you end up with an exposed hole in your panel.

Paige's comment about the joystick having a longer throw in 4-way mode is also true (assuming it is a modified Suzo). However even in 4-way mode the Suzo 500 has a shorter throw than the old Wicos. However it has to be said that the Suzo 500 feels slightly crisper in 8-way mode (this is true of all the 4/8 way switchable joysticks that I have come across).

[RandyT]

Hmm, interesting idea. Presumably it's a modified Suzo series 500.

Would you be offering conversion kits for people who already own Suzo 500 sticks? The saving would be presumably be small but this might be a way to keep shipping costs down.

Heavily modified would be more apt.  A kit would consist of about 27 pieces of hardware requiring much documentation, removal of some existing parts and is on par with assembling a BBQ grill in difficulty.  For now, that won't an option because simplicity is what this one is all about.

I can however see a potential problem. I think the Suzo 500 joysticks work best and look better when they are sunk into the control panel so that the ball top is at a similar height to the old Wico sticks. However if you mount the Prodigy joystick in this way then the lever for switching between 4 and 8 way mode is going to get buried. I am of course assuming that the pictures on your website are an accurate representation of the final product.

I also agree with the comments about the handle. It's purely a question of aesthetics. The Suzo handles are actually very comfortable but because the shaft is tapered it's not easy to fit a dust washer so you end up with an exposed hole in your panel.

Most of this is an aesthetic thing.  Your hand doesn't really know how much of the stick is buried, unless you hold it at the base.  I'm guessing most don't do this (I don't).  

Part of the beauty of this system is the integrated mounting plate that actually, for the first time, allows these sticks to be mounted as they were designed to be mounted.  Anyone wanting to mount this type of stick under their panel with a hacked dustcover floating at the surface will want to use the BASIC version and come up with their own solution.  

I have to mention this again (sorry ).  The only real arcade machines with dust covers floating on top of the panel are ones owned by lazy operators who did a quick and dirty conversion or control replacement.  We've just seen the dust cover used incorrectly so many times that we think something is wrong when it's not floating around on top.  You aren't supposed to see that thing at all!  When used correctly, it looks clean like the picture above.

RE: Stick Shape

These sticks have a very clever design that most people, for some reason, fail to pick up on.  It's a hybrid!  Look at it carefully.  If you cover the ball top, the bottom part indicates "bat handle".  Cover the lower end, and it's a "ball-top".  What this does is offer followers of either style a design they can be comfortable with.  A thick, tapered shaft for the bat crowd and ball for the retro crowd.  And the interesting part is that it actually succeeds, but is misunderstood because it looks different.  

RandyT

[rampy]

Very cool Randy....

While i'm a little underwhelmed by the look (it looks very european  -- yes i realize it's a hybrid) i'm totally blown away by the functionality...

I'm ok with the look though -- it's just different.  I've got some thinking to do  (in relation to my control panel)

Hey you remember that time you got really drunk, and wanted to go home with the ugly chick and I stopped you... maybe you should send me complimentary stick, eh? =P

rampy

PS I hope I didn't offend any ugly chicks =P

[RandyT]

Hey you remember that time you got really drunk, and wanted to go home with the ugly chick and I stopped you... maybe you should send me complimentary stick, eh? =P

Umm....I'll thank you not to talk about my wife that way....



(Joke, it's a joke!  Aww c'mon....I wuz just kidding...damn...kitty litter for breakfast again....)

 

RandyT

[slycrel]

  Hrm.

  One more option to consider.  I'm glad I haven't purchased anything for my control panel yet, though this one might be a bit steep for my budget.  We'll see what the wife says.    Good luck with it, when I was looking around I was wondering why there weren't any of these out there already.  =)

--Jeremy

[JoyMonkey]

  I love it!

My only problem is, how is it going to mount into a metal control panel?
I've been using CP's similar to Arcade Depot's replicas (like the ones here) which I've made to accept Wico Series 500 sticks and the end result is beautiful.
 
I've got access to a CNC router that I've been using to machine CPs, so I'm thinking I could cut an aluminum CP with the stick-hole and the switch-curve cut exactly the same as the Prodigy's top-plate, remove the Prodigy's plate and bolt the stick straight onto the CP. Would there be any issues with trying this?

Maybe you could you sell the sticks without the top-plate, for those of us that will be mounting to metal CPs?

Either way, expect an order from me pretty soon!

[RandyT]

My only problem is, how is it going to mount into a metal control panel?

Actually, they will mount to a metal panel just fine "as-is".    They were designed to accomodate a panel up to 3/4" thick with 1/8" of plexi on top.

RandyT

[crsdawg]

looks real nice randy. i'm glad somebody stepped up to the plate and built these.

[RandyT]

Thanks everyone for all the encouraging comments.  

Just wanted to let anyone who may be interested know that The OMNI-StiK Prodigy has now been added to the store and they are now available.

RandyT

[JackTucky]

Do you have a picture of them mounted in a control panel?

Art

[mushmouth]

I like EVERYTHING about this stick, except the stick itself. All of its functionality meets the needs of a great number of people here, clearly. But there's no way I'm putting a stick with that shaft and ball in my machine. I want old-school feel, old-school appearance, and I'll echo what others have said here: I want the option of not having that half-bat / half-ball-top stick. The simple solution would be to offer it with this bat (it's still a bat in my mind regardless of the top) and with an original pac-style shaft and ball.

With the exception of that (in my case, it's a deal breaker), this is a stellar product concept.

Don't stop with where it's at. I hope to see you continue to evolve it...

[HagHore]

I agree with mushmouth, if the stick just had that old Wico style (steel shaft with red ball top) I would've bought these for my cabinet.  As it is though I'm going with the J-Sticks unless tombaci gives me the thumbs up on the leaf switch sticks he just ordered from quarterarcade.  I do like the functionality of the Omni (and the panel top switching from 4 to 8 way is very handy) but the look of them is a deal buster.

[Spaced Invader]

RandyT,

Just wondering if you were going to offer a mounting plate for the basic Omni similar to the one one the Prodigy (without the slide cutout). I think a lot of people who choose the Prodigy for player one will want a basic Omni for player two (I do). The mounting plate would allow ease of mounting in a wood CP, ensure the sticks are mounted at the same height, and provide a consistant look. I know i would pay double the price of a basic Omni just to have the plate included. Great products...I'm just concerned about the mounting.

[menace]

If a ball top is all your after--cut the half and half job off and mount a 1 3/4" wood ball to the top (can be found at all craft stores).  Paint it with a nice rich red color--car touch up paint gives nice finish and then clear coat.  I'm working onthis right now--will post picks when i'm done.

Don't let a small thing like a handle style get in the way of classic gaming

[rampy]

RandyT,

Just wondering if you were going to offer a mounting plate for the basic Omni similar to the one one the Prodigy (without the slide cutout). I think a lot of people who choose the Prodigy for player one will want a basic Omni for player two (I do). The mounting plate would allow ease of mounting in a wood CP, ensure the sticks are mounted at the same height, and provide a consistant look. I know i would pay double the price of a basic Omni just to have the plate included. Great products...I'm just concerned about the mounting.

that's a very good point SI... hmph... What thinketh you randy?

rampy

PS and I take back my previous comment... I had no idea you went back to the bar after I brought you home... damn you jaegermeister!

[RandyT]

I like EVERYTHING about this stick, except the stick itself. All of its functionality meets the needs of a great number of people here, clearly. But there's no way I'm putting a stick with that shaft and ball in my machine. I want old-school feel, old-school appearance, and I'll echo what others have said here: I want the option of not having that half-bat / half-ball-top stick. The simple solution would be to offer it with this bat (it's still a bat in my mind regardless of the top) and with an original pac-style shaft and ball.

With the exception of that (in my case, it's a deal breaker), this is a stellar product concept.

Don't stop with where it's at. I hope to see you continue to evolve it...

The real question here would be how much one would be willing to pay for such a thing.  As the list gets longer, the price climbs accordingly.  The other problem is that we are dealing with a functional aesthetic.  In other words, if you change the look, the stick will fall apart .  The base of the unit is similar to the Happ style in that the shaft is captivated via a snap ring (or e-clip).  The Happ sticks have a tubular black plastic part for this task, while on the PRODIGY it's a single piece.

So, I guess what I am saying is that for a "real PAC style stick", this would have to be re-designed from the ground up, and most likely include building the stick itself.  I'd like to have the resources to accomodate everone's wishes, but it's unrealistic.  It looks like Ebay and dedicated extra sticks will still be the best bet for the purists, at least for the near term.

Sorry,
RandyT

[Spaced Invader]

Mounting plates for the basic Omni? Asked four posts above, seconded by Rampy two posts above.... Please?  

[HagHore]

Randy,

Although I am not interested in the Omni for any of my own personal cabs, I would like to use the Prodigy on a control panel for my brother (4/8 way switch on top is very handy for this use).  But first I need a question answered, have you used the Prodigy to play Defender?  And if so, does the switch get in the way of playing Defender?  For most other games I can see the switch not being a problem, but for Defender you usually rest your palm on the panel (at least I do) and operate the stick from the base more so than the top and that could be a problem with the switch.  If you can give me a thumbs up on Defender usage then I will get a Prodigy for my brother's control panel.  Thanks.

[Sasquatch!]

Wow, very clever design!  I'll have to keep this one in mind for future projects.

[RandyT]

RandyT,

Just wondering if you were going to offer a mounting plate for the basic Omni similar to the one one the Prodigy (without the slide cutout). I think a lot of people who choose the Prodigy for player one will want a basic Omni for player two (I do). The mounting plate would allow ease of mounting in a wood CP, ensure the sticks are mounted at the same height, and provide a consistant look. I know i would pay double the price of a basic Omni just to have the plate included. Great products...I'm just concerned about the mounting.

I agree with you on all points.  So, the good news is that I will make them available, with no slot (actually, the slot will still be present in the metal, but it is very thin and the textured black overlay material is so heavy it covers it without a hint.)  This will be an option only with the purchase of the OMNI-Stik BASIC and will arrive with the mounting plate already attached and ready to install.  The mounting template will also be included.

The bad news is that I cannot make the plates available separately, unless you have already ordered an OMNI-Stik BASIC from GroovyGameGear in the past.  For most folks, this shouldn't be a problem.

Here's a pic of just the plate with no slot in the top:

I'll add the option to the OMNI-Stik BASIC item right away.  Thanks for the suggestions.

RandyT

[RandyT]

Randy,

Although I am not interested in the Omni for any of my own personal cabs, I would like to use the Prodigy on a control panel for my brother (4/8 way switch on top is very handy for this use).  But first I need a question answered, have you used the Prodigy to play Defender?  And if so, does the switch get in the way of playing Defender?  For most other games I can see the switch not being a problem, but for Defender you usually rest your palm on the panel (at least I do) and operate the stick from the base more so than the top and that could be a problem with the switch.  If you can give me a thumbs up on Defender usage then I will get a Prodigy for my brother's control panel.  Thanks.

The switch position was carefully thought out so that the switch would never interfere when the system is installed with the switch in front of the stick.  But without seeing how you hold the stick when playing, it's difficult to say with 100% certainty how it will affect you.

But there are 2 things to consider:

1) The switch extends less than 3/4" above the panel, so it's easy to avoid if you need to and

2) You have the option of placing the switch on any side of the stick that suits you best.  For example, if you use the stick with your left hand, placing the switch to the right of the stick may be a good option for you based on your scenario above.  I don't recommend this for everyone, but for special circumstances it will still operate just fine.

Get someone to take a picture of your hand while playing and send it to me  

RandyT

*edit*

Ummm...I just re-read that...I mean when you are playing *Defender* !  

[Spaced Invader]

So, the good news is that I will make them available, with no slot (actually, the slot will still be present in the metal, but it is very thin and the textured black overlay material is so heavy it covers it without a hint.)  This will be an option only with the purchase of the OMNI-Stik BASIC and will arrive with the mounting plate already attached and ready to install.  The mounting template will also be included.

That's great! I in no way need any more joysticks...b-u-t...I've got to get these for my vertical cab. And I guess a Keywhiz would be a logical choice while I'm at it. Groovy Game Gear rocks!  

[teef two]

Randy,

Would you be able to ship these to the UK?

Teef2

[NIVO]

Heya Randy, just stopped by the website to review more in depth of these new joysticks. I must say I am quite impressed, mostly by the clean flush look. As I am a stickler for the smooth finish personally, these will definitely be a future purchase for me. The ease of install and the smooth surface finish are two key points that will make these sticks sell themselves. I applaud your work and attention to detail. Well done.