OMNI-Stik PRODIGY (TM) - New Product Announcement

[RandyT]

I haven't been participating here lately as much as I would have liked, and this is part of the reason.

The currently available solutions to the 4-way / 8-way joystick problem have always left me feeling like there was a "better way", so I went to work on one of my own.  The goal was to create one that was self-contained, easy to install and most importantly, switchable between true 4 and 8 way modes from the top of the control panel.   It's been a long road, but it's finally finished and it has surpassed all of my expectations.

The OMNI-Stik PRODIGY (TM) Arcade Joystick Systems will go on sale tomorrow, and cost $34.95 each.  They are available with Red, Blue and Black sticks.  There's more info at the website, so I won't drag it all into this post.

Saint has the very first production unit on the way to him as I write this (are you listening, Saint?)  Once again, it's good to be Saint  .

RandyT

[paigeoliver]

What provides the resistance, a rubber grommet or a spring?

Also, is the 4-way movement path properly shorter than the 8-way one? So far every switchable stick I have tried has had a longer throw in 4-way mode.

Does the bolt pattern match the Wico/Happ pattern.

Is this a completely new design, or are you modifying another manufacturers stick? (The handle looks familiar).

If it does have a rubber grommet, the Happ/Wico bolt pattern, and a shorter throw in 4-way mode then I can see this being a very successful product.

Of course, you will still never solve the basic problem of getting your friends to play 4-way games in 4-way mode and 8-way games in 8-way mode.  

[RandyT]

What provides the resistance, a rubber grommet or a spring?

Spring.  Are grommet based sticks even produced anymore?

Also, is the 4-way movement path properly shorter than the 8-way one? So far every switchable stick I have tried has had a longer throw in 4-way mode.

The throw on this stick is "ever so slightly" longer in 4-way mode.  This is a "precision" stick with a comfortably short throw all around, so the difference is unperceivable during use....except that things actually move where you expect them to in 4-way mode

Does the bolt pattern match the Wico/Happ pattern.

It is not a "drop-in" replacement for an existing stick.  It's a complete system that requires it's own mounting considerations.  That's not to say that an existing panel can't be retro-fitted, because it can, as long as there is physically enough room for the unit.

Is this a completely new design, or are you modifying another manufacturers stick? (The handle looks familiar).

No, it is based on an existing design.  I didn't have the $125,000 for the injection molds to make my own

If it does have a rubber grommet, the Happ/Wico bolt pattern, and a shorter throw in 4-way mode then I can see this being a very successful product.

Don't set fire to the sofa before you take a seat .  These are different from the usual Happ fare, but that's not a bad thing.  Like anything "different" there is a short adjustment period.  After using this stick for a few months, I can tell you that these more closely approximate the "retro" gaming experience than the Happ sticks, and I have no inclination to ever use the "bat" sticks again.  I haven't found a single game where I felt it was more playable with those types of sticks over these, in fact usually the opposite is true.

Of course, you will still never solve the basic problem of getting your friends to play 4-way games in 4-way mode and 8-way games in 8-way mode.  

The first time they see the difference between using it and not, you'll never have to remind them again  

RandyT

*edit*
The usual typos  

[Frostillicus]

WOW.  Now that makes sense.  I concept that's been kicked around for awhile, but a nice NEW and professional product - will consider it for future cabs definitely.  Thanks for the cool offering RandyT

[menace]

Send one to Kev Steele for a review I'd be curious how well the system works (not to mention he makes such neat videos )

I have been toying with modifying my j-stick for "above-panel" switching--this seems to be a more elegant solution.

[RandyT]

Send one to Kev Steele for a review I'd be curious how well the system works (not to mention he makes such neat videos )

I have been toying with modifying my j-stick for "above-panel" switching--this seems to be a more elegant solution.

Kevin will have one heading his way very soon.  

RandyT

[soslo]

This looks like a cool product...no need to have that extra dedicated 4 way in the middle of a panel...

Hrmm, I am bookmarking your page because when I do the cocktail, this looks like the answer I've been looking for.

[Pungo76]

Looks pretty sweet.  Do you have an available dimensioned drawing for installation, was wondering if it would fit into my existing panel with a little tweaking.  Also is there any way to use the stick as a 4-way diagnol style stick, without mounting it at an angle of course.  Thanks.

Matt

[Wade]

RandyT,

   Great way to tackle such a problem!  My only concern would be that the stick doesn't look more like a common 4-way or 8-way (or have different stick tops/balls available).  Depending on the theme someone goes for in their cab, it would be nice to be able to match it (for instance, if someone makes a pac replica they will probably want a stick that looks like a pac stick).

   I would expect these to be popular.  I'm very happy with my J-sticks, but my panel is set up in such a way to make switching trivial and very quick (no tools, takes about 10 seconds).  But for many people that isn't an option.

   Good luck, if these are in the same league as the Keywhiz then I'm sure buyers will be happy with the product.

Wade

[JustMichael]

Pungo76,  I prefer using an 8-way stick as a 4-way diagonal stick.  In Mame you can do this by making Mame accept only the diagonal directions. Here is an example for qbert:
Hit "Tab" and go down to "Input (this game)"
Go down to P1 Right and hit "Enter"
Now hit the down arrow then right after that hit the right arrow (it should say "Down Arrow Right Arrow" in just a couple seconds)
Now do the same for the other directions but use:
P1 Left:  Left Arrow Up Arrow
P1 Up:  Up Arrow Right Arrow
P1 Down:  Down Arrow Left Arrow

If you make a mistake, just select the line again and press "ESC" to reset the control to its normal key.

Once you have done this, qbert is tons of fun with an 8-way stick!

[iwillfearnoevil]

Pungo76,  I prefer using an 8-way stick as a 4-way diagonal stick.  In Mame you can do this by making Mame accept only the diagonal directions.

Can you make mame ignore diagonals to turn an 8-way into a 4-way? And to keep this ontopic, i look forward to any reviews and i'll be starting a cocktail project soon and maybe this is a good compromise.

[RandyT]

Looks pretty sweet.  Do you have an available dimensioned drawing for installation, was wondering if it would fit into my existing panel with a little tweaking.  Also is there any way to use the stick as a 4-way diagnol style stick, without mounting it at an angle of course.  Thanks.

The top plate is exactly 5" square and the mounting holes are 4.5" square on centers. The actual template will be downloadable soon.

And,  you will be very pleasantly surprised at how well diagonals work on these in 8-way mode. No extra adjustments required.

RandyT

[Spaced Invader]

Those are sweet. I've already noted some changes to a planned vert cab. Prodigy on the left, basic Omni on the right, and four buttons each--that should cover nearly every vertical game out there. You just saved me from having to build two vertical cabs.

[JustMichael]

jened, you can BUT instead of the game ignoring the diagonals (like in Donkey Kong), Mame will ignore the diagonals.  What this means is Mame will send no key to the game when a diagonal is pushed.

Example:
Up: Up, Left, Left, Right, Right.  This will make Up to "Up Arrow not Left Arrow not Right Arrow"
 
You can make Mame favor certain directions.  Here is an example:
For Up: Up then wait till it goes back to the list then hit enter and then up then right and wait till it goes back to the list then hit enter then up and then left.  It should now say "Up Arrow or Up Arrow Right Arrow or Up Arrow Left Arrow"

I also look forward to the reviews of the new joystick.

[Jakobud]

Looks very cool and intriguing.  Although I would almost definately buy it if you could somehow interchange the shaft and handle with something else.  That handle on there is very popular in Europe if I'm not mistaken and I'd love it if the handle was the same as say, the original Pac Man replacement handler/shaft... Anyways, great product. I might get one anyways

[KevSteele]

Randy,

Thanks.  This joystick will go great with the Joystick Roundup I'm working on!

In fact, I'm now tempted to start planning how to hack my new SlikStik Classic to fit this new joystick in...

Very cool idea, btw, and may I say it's about time someone did this!

Kevin

[Grasshopper]

Hmm, interesting idea. Presumably it's a modified Suzo series 500.

Would you be offering conversion kits for people who already own Suzo 500 sticks? The saving would be presumably be small but this might be a way to keep shipping costs down.

I can however see a potential problem. I think the Suzo 500 joysticks work best and look better when they are sunk into the control panel so that the ball top is at a similar height to the old Wico sticks. However if you mount the Prodigy joystick in this way then the lever for switching between 4 and 8 way mode is going to get buried. I am of course assuming that the pictures on your website are an accurate representation of the final product.

I also agree with the comments about the handle. It's purely a question of aesthetics. The Suzo handles are actually very comfortable but because the shaft is tapered it's not easy to fit a dust washer so you end up with an exposed hole in your panel.

Paige's comment about the joystick having a longer throw in 4-way mode is also true (assuming it is a modified Suzo). However even in 4-way mode the Suzo 500 has a shorter throw than the old Wicos. However it has to be said that the Suzo 500 feels slightly crisper in 8-way mode (this is true of all the 4/8 way switchable joysticks that I have come across).

[RandyT]

Hmm, interesting idea. Presumably it's a modified Suzo series 500.

Would you be offering conversion kits for people who already own Suzo 500 sticks? The saving would be presumably be small but this might be a way to keep shipping costs down.

Heavily modified would be more apt.  A kit would consist of about 27 pieces of hardware requiring much documentation, removal of some existing parts and is on par with assembling a BBQ grill in difficulty.  For now, that won't an option because simplicity is what this one is all about.

I can however see a potential problem. I think the Suzo 500 joysticks work best and look better when they are sunk into the control panel so that the ball top is at a similar height to the old Wico sticks. However if you mount the Prodigy joystick in this way then the lever for switching between 4 and 8 way mode is going to get buried. I am of course assuming that the pictures on your website are an accurate representation of the final product.

I also agree with the comments about the handle. It's purely a question of aesthetics. The Suzo handles are actually very comfortable but because the shaft is tapered it's not easy to fit a dust washer so you end up with an exposed hole in your panel.

Most of this is an aesthetic thing.  Your hand doesn't really know how much of the stick is buried, unless you hold it at the base.  I'm guessing most don't do this (I don't).  

Part of the beauty of this system is the integrated mounting plate that actually, for the first time, allows these sticks to be mounted as they were designed to be mounted.  Anyone wanting to mount this type of stick under their panel with a hacked dustcover floating at the surface will want to use the BASIC version and come up with their own solution.  

I have to mention this again (sorry ).  The only real arcade machines with dust covers floating on top of the panel are ones owned by lazy operators who did a quick and dirty conversion or control replacement.  We've just seen the dust cover used incorrectly so many times that we think something is wrong when it's not floating around on top.  You aren't supposed to see that thing at all!  When used correctly, it looks clean like the picture above.

RE: Stick Shape

These sticks have a very clever design that most people, for some reason, fail to pick up on.  It's a hybrid!  Look at it carefully.  If you cover the ball top, the bottom part indicates "bat handle".  Cover the lower end, and it's a "ball-top".  What this does is offer followers of either style a design they can be comfortable with.  A thick, tapered shaft for the bat crowd and ball for the retro crowd.  And the interesting part is that it actually succeeds, but is misunderstood because it looks different.  

RandyT

[rampy]

Very cool Randy....

While i'm a little underwhelmed by the look (it looks very european  -- yes i realize it's a hybrid) i'm totally blown away by the functionality...

I'm ok with the look though -- it's just different.  I've got some thinking to do  (in relation to my control panel)

Hey you remember that time you got really drunk, and wanted to go home with the ugly chick and I stopped you... maybe you should send me complimentary stick, eh? =P

rampy

PS I hope I didn't offend any ugly chicks =P

[RandyT]

Hey you remember that time you got really drunk, and wanted to go home with the ugly chick and I stopped you... maybe you should send me complimentary stick, eh? =P

Umm....I'll thank you not to talk about my wife that way....



(Joke, it's a joke!  Aww c'mon....I wuz just kidding...damn...kitty litter for breakfast again....)

 

RandyT

[slycrel]

  Hrm.

  One more option to consider.  I'm glad I haven't purchased anything for my control panel yet, though this one might be a bit steep for my budget.  We'll see what the wife says.    Good luck with it, when I was looking around I was wondering why there weren't any of these out there already.  =)

--Jeremy

[JoyMonkey]

  I love it!

My only problem is, how is it going to mount into a metal control panel?
I've been using CP's similar to Arcade Depot's replicas (like the ones here) which I've made to accept Wico Series 500 sticks and the end result is beautiful.
 
I've got access to a CNC router that I've been using to machine CPs, so I'm thinking I could cut an aluminum CP with the stick-hole and the switch-curve cut exactly the same as the Prodigy's top-plate, remove the Prodigy's plate and bolt the stick straight onto the CP. Would there be any issues with trying this?

Maybe you could you sell the sticks without the top-plate, for those of us that will be mounting to metal CPs?

Either way, expect an order from me pretty soon!

[RandyT]

My only problem is, how is it going to mount into a metal control panel?

Actually, they will mount to a metal panel just fine "as-is".    They were designed to accomodate a panel up to 3/4" thick with 1/8" of plexi on top.

RandyT

[crsdawg]

looks real nice randy. i'm glad somebody stepped up to the plate and built these.

[RandyT]

Thanks everyone for all the encouraging comments.  

Just wanted to let anyone who may be interested know that The OMNI-StiK Prodigy has now been added to the store and they are now available.

RandyT

[JackTucky]

Do you have a picture of them mounted in a control panel?

Art

[mushmouth]

I like EVERYTHING about this stick, except the stick itself. All of its functionality meets the needs of a great number of people here, clearly. But there's no way I'm putting a stick with that shaft and ball in my machine. I want old-school feel, old-school appearance, and I'll echo what others have said here: I want the option of not having that half-bat / half-ball-top stick. The simple solution would be to offer it with this bat (it's still a bat in my mind regardless of the top) and with an original pac-style shaft and ball.

With the exception of that (in my case, it's a deal breaker), this is a stellar product concept.

Don't stop with where it's at. I hope to see you continue to evolve it...

[HagHore]

I agree with mushmouth, if the stick just had that old Wico style (steel shaft with red ball top) I would've bought these for my cabinet.  As it is though I'm going with the J-Sticks unless tombaci gives me the thumbs up on the leaf switch sticks he just ordered from quarterarcade.  I do like the functionality of the Omni (and the panel top switching from 4 to 8 way is very handy) but the look of them is a deal buster.

[Spaced Invader]

RandyT,

Just wondering if you were going to offer a mounting plate for the basic Omni similar to the one one the Prodigy (without the slide cutout). I think a lot of people who choose the Prodigy for player one will want a basic Omni for player two (I do). The mounting plate would allow ease of mounting in a wood CP, ensure the sticks are mounted at the same height, and provide a consistant look. I know i would pay double the price of a basic Omni just to have the plate included. Great products...I'm just concerned about the mounting.

[menace]

If a ball top is all your after--cut the half and half job off and mount a 1 3/4" wood ball to the top (can be found at all craft stores).  Paint it with a nice rich red color--car touch up paint gives nice finish and then clear coat.  I'm working onthis right now--will post picks when i'm done.

Don't let a small thing like a handle style get in the way of classic gaming

[rampy]

RandyT,

Just wondering if you were going to offer a mounting plate for the basic Omni similar to the one one the Prodigy (without the slide cutout). I think a lot of people who choose the Prodigy for player one will want a basic Omni for player two (I do). The mounting plate would allow ease of mounting in a wood CP, ensure the sticks are mounted at the same height, and provide a consistant look. I know i would pay double the price of a basic Omni just to have the plate included. Great products...I'm just concerned about the mounting.

that's a very good point SI... hmph... What thinketh you randy?

rampy

PS and I take back my previous comment... I had no idea you went back to the bar after I brought you home... damn you jaegermeister!

[RandyT]

I like EVERYTHING about this stick, except the stick itself. All of its functionality meets the needs of a great number of people here, clearly. But there's no way I'm putting a stick with that shaft and ball in my machine. I want old-school feel, old-school appearance, and I'll echo what others have said here: I want the option of not having that half-bat / half-ball-top stick. The simple solution would be to offer it with this bat (it's still a bat in my mind regardless of the top) and with an original pac-style shaft and ball.

With the exception of that (in my case, it's a deal breaker), this is a stellar product concept.

Don't stop with where it's at. I hope to see you continue to evolve it...

The real question here would be how much one would be willing to pay for such a thing.  As the list gets longer, the price climbs accordingly.  The other problem is that we are dealing with a functional aesthetic.  In other words, if you change the look, the stick will fall apart .  The base of the unit is similar to the Happ style in that the shaft is captivated via a snap ring (or e-clip).  The Happ sticks have a tubular black plastic part for this task, while on the PRODIGY it's a single piece.

So, I guess what I am saying is that for a "real PAC style stick", this would have to be re-designed from the ground up, and most likely include building the stick itself.  I'd like to have the resources to accomodate everone's wishes, but it's unrealistic.  It looks like Ebay and dedicated extra sticks will still be the best bet for the purists, at least for the near term.

Sorry,
RandyT

[Spaced Invader]

Mounting plates for the basic Omni? Asked four posts above, seconded by Rampy two posts above.... Please?  

[HagHore]

Randy,

Although I am not interested in the Omni for any of my own personal cabs, I would like to use the Prodigy on a control panel for my brother (4/8 way switch on top is very handy for this use).  But first I need a question answered, have you used the Prodigy to play Defender?  And if so, does the switch get in the way of playing Defender?  For most other games I can see the switch not being a problem, but for Defender you usually rest your palm on the panel (at least I do) and operate the stick from the base more so than the top and that could be a problem with the switch.  If you can give me a thumbs up on Defender usage then I will get a Prodigy for my brother's control panel.  Thanks.

[Sasquatch!]

Wow, very clever design!  I'll have to keep this one in mind for future projects.

[RandyT]

RandyT,

Just wondering if you were going to offer a mounting plate for the basic Omni similar to the one one the Prodigy (without the slide cutout). I think a lot of people who choose the Prodigy for player one will want a basic Omni for player two (I do). The mounting plate would allow ease of mounting in a wood CP, ensure the sticks are mounted at the same height, and provide a consistant look. I know i would pay double the price of a basic Omni just to have the plate included. Great products...I'm just concerned about the mounting.

I agree with you on all points.  So, the good news is that I will make them available, with no slot (actually, the slot will still be present in the metal, but it is very thin and the textured black overlay material is so heavy it covers it without a hint.)  This will be an option only with the purchase of the OMNI-Stik BASIC and will arrive with the mounting plate already attached and ready to install.  The mounting template will also be included.

The bad news is that I cannot make the plates available separately, unless you have already ordered an OMNI-Stik BASIC from GroovyGameGear in the past.  For most folks, this shouldn't be a problem.

Here's a pic of just the plate with no slot in the top:

I'll add the option to the OMNI-Stik BASIC item right away.  Thanks for the suggestions.

RandyT

[RandyT]

Randy,

Although I am not interested in the Omni for any of my own personal cabs, I would like to use the Prodigy on a control panel for my brother (4/8 way switch on top is very handy for this use).  But first I need a question answered, have you used the Prodigy to play Defender?  And if so, does the switch get in the way of playing Defender?  For most other games I can see the switch not being a problem, but for Defender you usually rest your palm on the panel (at least I do) and operate the stick from the base more so than the top and that could be a problem with the switch.  If you can give me a thumbs up on Defender usage then I will get a Prodigy for my brother's control panel.  Thanks.

The switch position was carefully thought out so that the switch would never interfere when the system is installed with the switch in front of the stick.  But without seeing how you hold the stick when playing, it's difficult to say with 100% certainty how it will affect you.

But there are 2 things to consider:

1) The switch extends less than 3/4" above the panel, so it's easy to avoid if you need to and

2) You have the option of placing the switch on any side of the stick that suits you best.  For example, if you use the stick with your left hand, placing the switch to the right of the stick may be a good option for you based on your scenario above.  I don't recommend this for everyone, but for special circumstances it will still operate just fine.

Get someone to take a picture of your hand while playing and send it to me  

RandyT

*edit*

Ummm...I just re-read that...I mean when you are playing *Defender* !  

[Spaced Invader]

So, the good news is that I will make them available, with no slot (actually, the slot will still be present in the metal, but it is very thin and the textured black overlay material is so heavy it covers it without a hint.)  This will be an option only with the purchase of the OMNI-Stik BASIC and will arrive with the mounting plate already attached and ready to install.  The mounting template will also be included.

That's great! I in no way need any more joysticks...b-u-t...I've got to get these for my vertical cab. And I guess a Keywhiz would be a logical choice while I'm at it. Groovy Game Gear rocks!  

[teef two]

Randy,

Would you be able to ship these to the UK?

Teef2

[NIVO]

Heya Randy, just stopped by the website to review more in depth of these new joysticks. I must say I am quite impressed, mostly by the clean flush look. As I am a stickler for the smooth finish personally, these will definitely be a future purchase for me. The ease of install and the smooth surface finish are two key points that will make these sticks sell themselves. I applaud your work and attention to detail. Well done.

[STL_Steve]

Nice job Randy, I am glad I waited on buying my CP parts.

[RandyT]

I want the option of not having that half-bat / half-ball-top stick. The simple solution would be to offer it with this bat (it's still a bat in my mind regardless of the top) and with an original pac-style shaft and ball.

Ok, been working on this one all weekend.  I think I have a solution that will address these concerns, but it will come at a cost.  Monetary, not in performance.

So I'm really interested in some opinions here.  

Suppose you were in the market for a top of the line joystick, with the classic short steel shaft and ball top, panel-top-switchable TRUE 4 and 8 way function and integrated mounting plate.  Would it be worth $44.95 to you to have all of these things?

In order to offer this, it would take an additional investment on my part, which I don't mind making (KeyWiz money at work  ).  I'd just like to think that it would be to the benefit of more than 2 people and that I would have at least half a chance of breaking even .

I understand that these would be of the most interest to the "high-end" builder and I would continue to make the current models available as well.

Thanks for the input,
RandyT

[STL_Steve]

I would order 1 for sure and perhaps 2 more for the next cabinet that I am building.

[Cameronj]

Yeah I would probably be interested in that one too, but it would be a couple of months before I would buy however.


Cameron

[Todd H]

I'd be interested.  Heck, I bet you could probably sell a few to SlikStik as well.  I'd love to be able to eliminate a joystick from my control panel plans.

[crsdawg]

you could chalk me up for one of these as well if you offered it with a standard ball top handle.

in my mind the non-standard handle is the only weak point of, what looks to be, a very nice product.

[PacManess]

I would gladly pay an extra 10 dollars to get that authentic "Pac" look...however it isn't a "deal-breaker" for me, as I am probably going to order 2 of these sticks anyway once I'm ready to get to building.
My only concern is how it handles during Pac-Man. The look I can deal with, the color isn't THAT important...but man oh man, I better not get stuck in any corners.

nsb

[RandyT]

I would gladly pay an extra 10 dollars to get that authentic "Pac" look...

Ok, no promises, but I AM on the the job.  Waiting for some quotes to see if I can make this happen.  I might as well mention that if I can pull this off, the new stick will be made available for sale separately to those who have already ordered an OMNI-Stik from GGG in the past.  But like I say, nothing is certain until I see some numbers.

however it isn't a "deal-breaker" for me, as I am probably going to order 2 of these sticks anyway once I'm ready to get to building.
My only concern is how it handles during Pac-Man. The look I can deal with, the color isn't THAT important...but man oh man, I better not get stuck in any corners.

Good to hear.  And you have absolutely nothing to fear in that respect.  

RandyT

[Grasshopper]

I would gladly pay an extra 10 dollars to get that authentic "Pac" look...

Ok, no promises, but I AM on the the job.  Waiting for some quotes to see if I can make this happen.  I might as well mention that if I can pull this off, the new stick will be made available for sale separately to those who have already ordered an OMNI-Stik from GGG in the past.  But like I say, nothing is certain until I see some numbers.

RandyT

Randy, if you do decide to run with this idea (and I sincerely hope that you do!) then may I make a few suggestions:

* Sell the handles separately. $45 for just one joystick (Omni-Stik + ball top handle) might be outside many people's financial comfort zone. However, I'm sure that many people would be prepared to buy the handles separately if they only cost $10 or so.

* Team up with the guy who until recently sold replica ball top handles on Ebay for about $10 each. His email address is n2new@aol.com.

* You will have a much bigger market if you sell generic handles that can be fitted to a wide variety of joysticks. The Suzo 500 and (as far as I am aware) all of the Industrias Lorenzo joysticks have handles with a 10mm shaft. It should be therefore possible to design a generic ball top handle with a 10mm (stainless?) steel shaft that can be fitted to all of the aforementioned joysticks. You simply have to cut a number of different grooves into the shaft so that the c-clip can be fitted at different positions depending upon which type of joystick the shaft is being fitted to.

* Make sure the shaft is height adjustable by cutting extra grooves and supplying a spacer, as Happ do with their joysticks.

* Supply the handles in at least the following colours: red, black, and blue (preferably the dark Wico blue).

If you do all of the above, then I believe you'll be on to a winner!

[shmokes]

This may be useful info even though I will likely not be a customer.

Had you had this product out a few months ago when I bought most my parts I would have bought a true ball-top in a second.  As it is I bought two perfect 360's and I still have to get a dedicated 4-way.  I would love to have eliminated the need for the dedicated, but I already have my perfect 360's so that's what I'll use.  It's no use to me, at this point, to get your product over, say, a galaga/ms pacman stick because I don't need the 8-way functionality on that stick.

However, even when I was in the market, I don't think I would have bought your product with the half-n-half style grip just because I think it's ugly.  That may seem like a strange, nit-picky thing to worry about with all the functionality it brings to the table, but the mere fact that we are a bunch of geeks that want to build full-size arcade cabinets is evidence enough that we are fanatics.  I guess I'm just particular.

In short, yes, I think you should produce ball-top style handles.  Most of us are American and that stick just doesn't have the nostalgic punch of a ball-top or the familiarity of a full-on bat-handle.

[patrickl]

Why do people insist that the current stick on it is "european". When was there ever a cabinet manufacturer from europe? I have never seen a stick with a tapered shaft in europe anywhere! Maybe it's a UK thing or something? I have to admit, I have not been there much, but when I was there they had the same US/Japanese cabinets that I saw in the rest of europe.

Heck, I'm european myself and I want a repro stick to look like the stick on the games I played. So, that's a steel shaft with a ball on top. Apparently that's "japanese style", but I don't care where it's from.

Actually, I'm hoping to find a 4 way leaf stick. I have a J-Stik now, but I don't like the clicking sound.

[RandyT]

All of this is not directed at Patrickl...only the parts where I'm not rambling

Why do people insist that the current stick on it is "european". When was there ever a cabinet manufacturer from europe?

During the "hayday" of arcades, many games were convertable.  Swap a marquee, change out the controls (or not  ) slap in a couple of boards and start collecting more quarters.  To say that there was nothing particularly special about the cabinets these went into is an understatement.  They were very generic and pretty much used controls that were available without going half-way across the world to get them.

These cabinets were made *everywhere*

And BTW, these sticks are made in Belgium.  Were they kicked out if the EU recently?

I have never seen a stick with a tapered shaft in europe anywhere! Maybe it's a UK thing or something? I have to admit, I have not been there much, but when I was there they had the same US/Japanese cabinets that I saw in the rest of europe.

Just out of curiousity, how old are you and when were you there last?  I lived in Germany from 1983 to 1987 and that was pretty much the only thing I saw.  Seeing an arcade machine that wasn't designed to be converted (or a knock-off) was a rare thing in the small arcades I frequented (and there were plenty!), probably outnumbered by a factor of 3 to 1.  

And I remember these sticks well.  After being weened on the WICO red-tops (I had one controlling my Colecovision in the home-made "cabinet" I built when I was 16, which was 22 years ago), the European sticks seemed a little strange at first.  But after a couple of games I soon learned to appreciate the shorter throw (but not too short) and very precise control they offered.  

<Fast forward about 5 years>  

My WICO Red-top (and my Amiga 1000) gets built into a newly aquired, gutted Defender cabinet.  A while after that, the WICO gives up the fight and I never bothered to fix it up.  I was bored with the limited number of games the Amiga offered anyway, so time for the basement.

<Fast forward about 15 years>  

WICO since went through some financial woes and stopped making those red-ball sticks.  The industry  focussed on producing novelties, drivers and fighters, which aren't especially well suited to the short shafts and slippery knobs of days gone past and now, pretty much all you see are the bat-shaped sticks in the arcades.  The bat-shaped sticks, by the way, are also of European descent, designed and produced in a factory in Spain.

<About 3 years ago>

Advances in PC hardware and emulation technology allow for much more than a handful of real arcade games to be accurately executed, with some actual commercial products becoming available.

So I become more interested in the virtually discarded cabinet collecting all manner of evil-crud (tm) in my basement.  Do a little research, hack some controls, buy some bat-top sticks and join the fun.  After which, much to my chagrin, I find out that whatever skillz I had as a player magically evaporated in the last 20 years.  Strongly suspecting that *I* wasn't the only thing that was decrepit in the situation, I start looking for ways to improve my setup.

<Today>

The Bat-tops are tossed, along with the keyboard/gamepad/mouse hacks, replaced by a KeyWiz and OMNI-Stiks.  I'm happy to report that the problem mentioned earlier had only a small portion to do with my "rustiness" at the controls, and much to do with the hardware I was using.

The WICO Red-balls are "officially" rare, and leaf switches are sought after by only the die-hard purists (and maybe some others who have never endured the cleaning or re-bending of contacts when problems arise).  People everywhere are building their own cabinets and playing "nostalgia era" 4-way games with 8-way Spanish joysticks with the little disc floating around on the top of the panels instead of underneath a laminated surface as was intended, all the while talking about "authenticity".  

Heck, I'm european myself and I want a repro stick to look like the stick on the games I played. So, that's a steel shaft with a ball on top. Apparently that's "japanese style", but I don't care where it's from.

Actually that's "japanese style" today.  WICO made these popular sticks right from the beginning, as well as a "bat" design that looks quite different from today's sticks.  And as far as I know, WICO has always been an American company.

There are quite a few "ball-top" sticks being manufactured out there today, each having varying levels of performance/durability.  All you have to do is go into any game store and you will see one perched on a PS2 "arcade" panel.  But you probably don't want that one in your machine.  Looks are important, but not at the expense of performance (unless you built your machine primarily for display purposes )  Also remember that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and while some might not like the way they look, it doesn't appear to be a common view.  I'm already close to a re-order

Actually, I'm hoping to find a 4 way leaf stick. I have a J-Stik now, but I don't like the clicking sound.

Turn up the volume

RandyT

[soslo]

word

[mushmouth]

I'd pay $45 shipped. Tops.

[eightbit]

I have 2 of the omnisticks and 2 of the prodigys. I like them a lot. Especially the prodigys. If I had a choice I would have ordered them with regular bat handles but I wouldn't have ordered ball tops. I would have ordered the handle they have now over a ball top.

I don't understand where this demand for balltops came from? Don't most of you guys demanding the ball top have supers, competitions and ultimates? Those are all bat sticks....

[Tiger-Heli]

I have 2 of the omnisticks and 2 of the prodigys. I like them a lot. Especially the prodigys. If I had a choice I would have ordered them with regular bat handles but I wouldn't have ordered ball tops. I would have ordered the handle they have now over a ball top.

I don't understand where this demand for balltops came from? Don't most of you guys demanding the ball top have supers, competitions and ultimates? Those are all bat sticks....

Eightbit, first off, I somewhat agree with you.  I would prefer the current Omni-Stik/Prodigy handle over either a ball or Bat stick.  The last true arcade game I played was a ball-stick and I remember blisters on the sides of my fingers from gripping the steel shaft.  I don't want to return to that part of the nostalgia.  (Just like I wouldn't won't to put a worn-out Pac stick on my panel so I can get stuck in the corners just like in the real arcades . . . )

But I understand the allure of the ball tops.  It comes down to the games you played growing up and re-creating some of your mis-spent youth.

For me, (and many others), this means the Pac-Man series, 1942/1943, Galaga, Galaxian, Frogger, Time-Pilot, Donkey Kong, Gyruss, Tiger-Heli, Top Gunner, Sky Shark, Robotron, Dig Dug, Gun.Smoke, Karate Champ, etc.  These were all ball-top games in the arcade's.

For the younger crowd, this will mean Tekken, Street Fighter, and Mortal Kombat, etc.  (After my time, so I can't give a longer list).  Fans of these games will prefer a bat handle stick.

Now, here's why there is so much interest in a ball handle Prodigy.

For the second group of games, these were all 8-way, all play fine on a Happ Competition, and I imagine their fans either don't care about 4-way games, or would use a dedicated ball top 4-way like the Happ Ms.Pac Reunion.

But, if you look at my group A list, there's an almost 50/50 split between 8-way and 4-way games.  But there aren't a lot of 8-way ball top options, and most people won't want a dedicated 8-way balltop and 4-way ball top on their panel, thus the popularity of an above panel switchable 4-8 way stick like the ball-top Prodigy.

FWIW.

[PacManess]

I think TigerHeli is really summing it up well there. I mean I really really REALLY think it would be cool to have a Ball Top joystick just like the machines had when I was growing up.
However, the more I look at this design (the Bat Ball), the more comfortable it looks (you weren't kidding about blisters!)...almost as comfortable as a bat handle stickie but with more of a nostalgic feel...that ball really gives you something to grip when you are smacking around some poor little ghosties.
Like I said before, after the promise that I WOULDN'T get stuck in corners on Pac-Man (I swear to Blinky if I do...so help me....*grin*), I think that these sticks are the way to go. Nice hybrid shape, a little pricey, but really really worth it.
I'm still trying to figure out what color scheme I want to go with...do I make my P1 Stick Blue, and my P2 Stick Red...and then make my buttons for P1 Red and my Buttons for P2 Blue? Or do I use blue sticks for boths players, then make the buttons other colors? So many many choices.
Thanks for reading my rambling posts. Now off to go play some Pac-Man Jr. with my frickin' keyboard.

[Spaced Invader]

I lived in Germany from 1983 to 1987 and that was pretty much the only thing I saw.

Ditto...'87-'91...Germany is in Europe isn't it?  

[mushmouth]

Tiger-Heli,

Word.

mushmouth

[eightbit]

I think that these sticks are the way to go. Nice hybrid shape, a little pricey, but really really worth it.

Prodigys are a little pricey but the omnistick is priced around the same as other sticks and is still easy to switch if you reach under the panel.

[MinerAl]

...Karate Champ, etc.  These were all ball-top games in the arcade's.

FWIW, an original dedicated PvP KC had 4 ball/bats very much like the Omni-stick.  Conversions tended to have 4 of whatever was handy, usually ball top wicos.

I still haven't looked to see what brand they are (I will if anybody cares), but the sticks look very "Euro."

I did check, and there is no obvious brand on them without taking them off the CP, which I'd rather not do.

Anyway, if I were looking for a replacement set of KC sticks I'd be looking at Omni-sticks set to permanent 4 way mode.  Very original looking.

Al

[RandyT]

A little sneak-peek at the middle of January (or before)........

Custom-made polished stainless-steel shaft!


So far, the ball options are:

Ball, Dark Red Shiny - 1 3/8"

Ball, Black Shiny - 1 3/8"

Ball, Bright Red Textured - 1 1/2"  -  1 3/8"  -  1 1/4"

Ball, Black Textured - 1 1/2"  -  1 3/8"  -  1 1/4"

Ball, Soft Rubber Comfort Grip - 1 3/8"

Teardrop, Black Shiny - 1 1/4"


So there you have it.  The first ball-top, 4/8-way switchable from above the panel, ready for orders in about 2-weeks.

Merry Christmas, etc...


RandyT

[MiKman]

WOW now you are talking!  Whats the price hit gonna be?  will this style also available on the omni basic version?  if it will I think I have found my sticks!

[RetroBorg]

You the man, Randy T.

[spidermonkey]

Oh man, I need more sticks like I need a hole in the head but these are so cool I must have one. Randy, You and Oscar are OUTSTANDING when it comes to listening to your customers (friends ) around here. And on top of that both of you bust your --I'm attempting to get by the auto-censor and should be beaten after I re-read the rules-- to make the product availiable as soon a humanly possible. I can't say enough about you guys. Obviously you guys are motivated by your love of this hobby and not just the money or else you would just be pumping out run of the mill controls. Not to leave out the others Andy,Druin and Ron M for their excellent products as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you guys make our demanding requests become a reality and I'm sure I speak for most of us in saying THANK YOU ! .
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
Spidermonkey.

[patrickl]

The new "Retro" stick really looks cool! Exactly what I would want to have on my upcoming retro control panel. Love the choice of a matte balltop. I hope you will also ship to the Netherlands. If you do, I guess that will make these sticks euro sticks too then  

All of this is not directed at Patrickl...only the parts where I'm not rambling

Why do people insist that the current stick on it is "european". When was there ever a cabinet manufacturer from europe?

cool rant snipped

Wow Randy, it seems I missed a nice rant there  (Somehow I lost notification e-mails)

Guess it's just which games you play and maybe during which period even.

I guess Tiger-Heli  summed it up really:

For me, (and many others), this means the Pac-Man series, 1942/1943, Galaga, Galaxian, Frogger, Time-Pilot, Donkey Kong, Gyruss, Tiger-Heli, Top Gunner, Sky Shark, Robotron, Dig Dug, Gun.Smoke, Karate Champ, etc.  These were all ball-top games in the arcade's.

[mushmouth]

See? That wasn't so hard, was it? *giggling*

Well played, Randy. This is very very nice. To think, I was days away from ordering a 4-way Ms. Pac/Galaga 20th anniversary stick from Happ. To THINK....

Price shipped? (and be nice... *grin* let's not get all crazy up in here). And it would be at my doorstep by when?

By the way, one other question, how accurate is the throw in 4-way mode compared to an original old-school 4-way?

Oh, and another question that I SHOULD know the answer to:

Did an original upright pac have a slick ball or a textured ball? And what size was the ball??

mushmouf

[Bursk]

Bump for a great product!

[djbriane]

I agree. I put two of these on the cab I'm working on (will post pics soon) and they are really top notch. I got one Prodigy and one regular Omni-Stik and would highly recommend them.

Brian

[eightbit]

I agree. I put two of these on the cab I'm working on (will post pics soon) and they are really top notch. I got one Prodigy and one regular Omni-Stik and would highly recommend them.

Thats a GREAT idea. How many 4 way games used 2 players? I have 2 omnics and 2 prodigys and was trying to decide which to put on the cabinet I'm building. I'll do one of each. If I really want to switch the secound one I'll do it from the coin door. That will give me one of each for the next cabinet as well.

[djbriane]

Thats kind of what I figured, I'm sure there are a few games (seems like there was a post recently about that) that use 2 x 4 way but not enough to justify two switchable sticks.

So far its worked out really well for all the 4 way games I've played. The difference between the 8 way and 4 way for games like pacman is HUGE (as I'm sure most everyone here knows).

Brian

[eightbit]

So far its worked out really well for all the 4 way games I've played. The difference between the 8 way and 4 way for games like pacman is HUGE (as I'm sure most everyone here knows).

My opinion is that people that say its not that much of a difference have never actually tried a real 4 way joystick in direct comparison. They say things like "it can't make that much of a difference". I think it makes a huge difference.

[PaulG]

I've got all my parts picked out, but before I place my orders I need to settle on joysticks.  Are the steel shaft joysticks close to being sold?  The above pictures are not listed on the website and I was wondering if it's gonna be any day now.

P.S.  I'll use a credit card if required, but do you accept PayPal, Randy?  Wasn't ready to order and didn't wanna create an account just to get to the next page to see the payment options.

[RandyT]

I've got all my parts picked out, but before I place my orders I need to settle on joysticks.  Are the steel shaft joysticks close to being sold?  The above pictures are not listed on the website and I was wondering if it's gonna be any day now.

First of all, I want to thank everyone for being so patient on this one.  I'm in constant contact with the company making the parts for me (for this and other stuff in the works).

The latest date is this coming Friday, but there may be a few days shipping time depending on where he is getting them (3rd party).  But barring any unforseen additional delays, I'm estimating availability to be either this weekend or mid next week.

I will definitely keep everyone updated.

P.S.  I'll use a credit card if required, but do you accept PayPal, Randy?  Wasn't ready to order and didn't wanna create an account just to get to the next page to see the payment options.

At the moment we only take credit cards as payment.  Special arrangements may be made for Paypal payments in extreme circumstances and only from Paypal balances.  Payment via credit card can be made via our secure order pages at the site.

Thanks for the continued interest,
RandyT

[GroovyTuesdaY]

I was browseing your web site looking for the new sticks and the ball top options and i didn't see them listed anywhere.  Are they on there yet?  Thanks!  Look forward to seeing what i can buy heheh.

g~

[Tiger-Heli]

I was browseing your web site looking for the new sticks and the ball top options and i didn't see them listed anywhere.  Are they on there yet?  Thanks!  Look forward to seeing what i can buy heheh.

g~

See RandyT's post above.  This Friday or Mid-next week

[djbriane]

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to swap in the ball top sticks with already purchased Omni-Stiks? Will you be making them available individually on the site?

Thanks,
Brian

[RandyT]

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to swap in the ball top sticks with already purchased Omni-Stiks? Will you be making them available individually on the site?

Yes, they can be swapped.

The ball-tops will be made available for purchase to individuals who have bought the OMNI-Stiks from us in the past, including both the Prodigys and the Basics.  At this point in time, we don't plan to sell them "ala carte".

It's important for owners of the OMNI-Stik Basics to note that you will need a mounting plate to use the Retro replacement parts.  The shaft length was intentionally made short to provide an authentic "retro" feel, which means it won't be long enough for a "from the bottom" wood panel installation.

RandyT

[Grasshopper]

The new handles certainly look good however it's a shame that they aren't a little longer, or better still height adjustable.

You've already mentioned that it won't be possible to use these handles if you've attached your joystick to the underside of a thick wood panel. However there is a potentially bigger problem - the short height will also shorten the joystick's throw.

I'm a big fan of the standard Suzo 500 joystick partly because of its relatively short throw compared to the Happ sticks. However, I'm not sure I'd want its throw to be any shorter.

[RandyT]

The new handles certainly look good however it's a shame that they aren't a little longer, or better still height adjustable.

Due to the way these (and several other) sticks are engineered, height adjustability is not a viable option.  It costs less to make one for each model than to make the extra parts required to make it adjustable.  At least in this case.

You've already mentioned that it won't be possible to use these handles if you've attached your joystick to the underside of a thick wood panel. However there is a potentially bigger problem - the short height will also shorten the joystick's throw.

Surely you don't think I've committed many hundreds of dollars to a project without testing for this sort of thing do you?

I'm a big fan of the standard Suzo 500 joystick partly because of its relatively short throw compared to the Happ sticks. However, I'm not sure I'd want its throw to be any shorter.

The the modified stick still has plenty of throw, probably 90% of it's "pre-retro'd" state.

I have 1 retro'd Prodigy and 1 standard Prodigy on a panel next to each other and the difference in throw between the 2 is not even perceivable.  One just looks shinier than the other

RandyT

[Grasshopper]

Would it be possible to see one of the replacement handles on its own i.e. not attached to a joystick base? I'm curious to see how it's designed.

Unless there is something weird about the design that I don't know about then it should be possible to make the handles height adjustable simply by cutting an extra groove for the c-clip and supplying a plastic spacer.

Also, are the ball tops intechangeable with the ones that are fitted to Sanwa and Seimitsu sticks?

[RandyT]

Would it be possible to see one of the replacement handles on its own i.e. not attached to a joystick base? I'm curious to see how it's designed.

Should I post the KeyWiz source code too while I am at it?  

Unless there is something weird about the design that I don't know about then it should be possible to make the handles height adjustable simply by cutting an extra groove for the c-clip and supplying a plastic spacer.

It works differently than you are envisioning.  The shaft is a continuous piece of CNC turned polished stainless steel.  No plastic.  No spacers.

It could be done the way you are talking about, but it would likely sacrifice the clean look it has when used with a mounting plate and require 4-6 additional grooves and a pretty precise spacer.  Stainless steel is sold and machined by the inch, and the shaft has an additional feature that would have been more costly to implement (and I'm not ready to talk about that one yet )

If there is sufficient demand, I will make an adjustable replacement stick that is designed specifically to be used with a wooden panel from below.  But I wouldn't expect that to happen for a little while due to the initial investment required for this type of project.  

Also, are the ball tops intechangeable with the ones that are fitted to Sanwa and Seimitsu sticks?

Unlikely.

RandyT

[ElectricMayhem]

Are these still coming?  I have been waiting but This Friday came and went a while ago.  

I am finishing up my cabinet and I need to order joysticks and i want the ball tops.  If it will still be a while, that's cool.  I'll order the ultimarc ones for this cabinet and try yours next time.   Thanks!

~EM

I've got all my parts picked out, but before I place my orders I need to settle on joysticks.  Are the steel shaft joysticks close to being sold?  The above pictures are not listed on the website and I was wondering if it's gonna be any day now.

First of all, I want to thank everyone for being so patient on this one.  I'm in constant contact with the company making the parts for me (for this and other stuff in the works).

The latest date is this coming Friday, but there may be a few days shipping time depending on where he is getting them (3rd party).  But barring any unforseen additional delays, I'm estimating availability to be either this weekend or mid next week.

I will definitely keep everyone updated.

P.S.  I'll use a credit card if required, but do you accept PayPal, Randy?  Wasn't ready to order and didn't wanna create an account just to get to the next page to see the payment options.

At the moment we only take credit cards as payment.  Special arrangements may be made for Paypal payments in extreme circumstances and only from Paypal balances.  Payment via credit card can be made via our secure order pages at the site.

Thanks for the continued interest,
RandyT

[RandyT]

Are these still coming?  I have been waiting but This Friday came and went a while ago.  

I have to apologize for this one.  As these types of parts are new for us, we had to find a vendor to supply them.  This meant using a new (to us) vendor.  The parts are custom machined from stainless steel and he quoted a very good price.  Parts of this quality have proven to cost considerably more from other vendors, so we obviously needed to give him a chance in order to keep this affordable.

While he was very quick to get us the high quality sample you see in the picture above, he was unfortunately not so quick in delivering the actual order due to unexpected illness and other similar difficulties.

I've been on the phone with him every day for the past week and finally will have enough parts for 11 units tomorrow.  These will be made available for sale as soon as I do the incoming QC on them to make sure everything is as it should be.  

If anyone is interested in getting one of these, I suggest you stay alert .  While I have a number more on order with this vendor, I have no idea when or if he will deliver the remainder.  I hope this isn't the case, but these could be a very limited edition.

Again, my sincerest apologies for this taking so long.  In the future I'll keep this stuff under wraps until I actually have the parts in hand.

RandyT
(who is wondering what to do with $100+ worth of balls if he doesn't deliver the rest.... )

[Magnet_Eye]

yes.. when can we expect to buy the sticks with the ball tops?

i am interested in these.

[RandyT]

yes.. when can we expect to buy the sticks with the ball tops?

i am interested in these.

Sorry, should have posted here when these went live at the store.  

They have been available for purchase for the last couple of days.  Just go to the "controllers" section of the store and it will be first on the list.  Be sure to select which style of ball top you would like when ordering.  I'll be working on getting some better pictures shortly.

Again, the supply is limited until we get more parts in, but the machinist still appears to be commited to filling the order.  But I can say without reservation that he does good work.  There's nothing quite as nice as a shiny piece of stainless steel .

Also, for any who might be interested, we now carry true 4-way and 8-way model "tulip style" top fire joysticks.  We already have a good selection of connectors, buttons, etc.. but we will be adding more items shortly, such as panel clamp sets, wire, tools, and other things we hope the community will find useful.

Thanks,
RandyT

[Edgedamage]

Woah thank you my cocktail cab is in the planing stage. And I had started to plan for dual joys one for 4 and one for 8. Now it looks like my panels will have the single joy and dual buttons. Hope they work as good as they look.