Re-Doing Project

[kuehnau]

So, I've announced a project I was working on and right now it's pretty much dead in the water due to numerous reason(s).

1. For the last month I have been in the process of moving and simply don't have time to work on the cabinet.
2. I have been having weird issues with the joysticks I bought (E-Stiks) and I don't think I like them.
3. MAME has been frustrating me beyond comprehension.
4. I am trying to decide if I want to totally dissemble the cabinet and totally strip it or just the outsides.
5. I am unhappy with how the control panel went.

While arcade gaming is amazing and it'll always hold a place in my heart, I am quickly realizing that arcade gaming has many more issues when it comes to emulation then other forms of emulation. I am starting to get really annoying trying to get certain elements to work with MAME and the frontend I am working on. I understand that for a majority of the MAME community, it's all about preservation for them, but for a lot of the more casual people, it's highly annoying that they just don't offer backwards compatibility with roms. It's at the point where I simply don't want to deal with it.

I am also unhappy with the joysticks I bought and the layout of the control panel. In hindsight I should have thought out the layout a little bit better and gave it some more serious thought, but at the time, I was really excited to finally get going on the project and I just wanted it to move along, even if that meant pushing it along. Unfortunately I rushed some elements and I regret that now, but I guess it's better to learn from my mistakes.

When I had originally planned on working on an arcade cabinet I toyed with the idea of just making like a Nintendo Entertainment System cabinet, because the roms are small, easily found and I have never really had any compatibility issues with emulators. And I think that is what I am going to do here, is just give up on MAME (unless I plan on doing like a single game cabinet in the future) and go with something that's easier, that I am familiar with and strikes a more solid string when it comes to nostalgia, because that is why I am doing this project to even begin with.

I am now going to have to rework the control panel. I'd actually like to save the control panel I have since it's so thin and light weight (it's a Taito control panel, metal plate), but there is now a wide selection of holes that have been drilled into the panel. Any suggestions on how I might be able to patch this up? considering how thin it is, I have the feeling I might just have to fabricate a new one out of wood; which I am not looking forward to.

I don't like the E-Stiks I bought, they feel way too tight for me,I initially bought them because I hated having to route out the bottom of my wood control panel to get it to fit properly. Taking into consideration the planned project will be for a NES (possibly SNES) cabinet, can anyone suggest any joysticks that handle better that might have a better feel for these types of games? I don't know if anyone has any extra joysticks laying around they know for sure are in good condition, but if there is any interest in trading me some other joysticks for the E-Stiks, let me know, I got a Tetris PCB no one seems to want I'll toss in for free.

Finally, I am looking around for artwork, a Nintendo Marquee is easy to find and I'll have one printed off eventually, but I am having more of a harder time finding a nice control panel graphic overlay that isn't too busy or gaudy. I have been thinking I might just go with a single solid color, but at the same time, I am wondering if I should go with something a little more detailed, any insight on this would be appreciated.

And in case anyone is wondering, I am moving next week, so the project is still on hold, I won't start up again until I am settled in my new house.

 

[eds1275]

As far as compatibility, I have never had issues with mame - just get the same romset as the version you have and that is really all there is to it. But, if it isn't working I totally egt that. Computer troubles are a pita.

I have not tried the E-Stik, but can take a guess that it doesn't feel right because you are trying to play a console game with an arcade control. Perhaps try to track down one of the old NES arcade style sticks and see if you like that any better (after finding a way to interface it to your computer - numerous products on the market for that). I would personally just find out what they used in the old Nintendo cabs and pick that.

A trip to the hardware store to get a new piece of metal for the control panel, assuming it is just a rectangle. If not, either have one fabricated or make one out of wood. If you plan it right, you just have to do it once.

As for art, if you can't find something, maybe it is because you don't know what you want? Once you know what you are after it is often as easy as scribbling on a napkin and turning to one of your artsy friends or even here on the forum. If you are going with a nintendo theme, why not try to design something that looks like it belongs? For example a plain old black or grey background with a couple of red stripes and the nintendo logo? Think about an SNES game box and the identifying features those all had back in the day.

[kuehnau]

As far as compatibility, I have never had issues with mame - just get the same romset as the version you have and that is really all there is to it. But, if it isn't working I totally egt that. Computer troubles are a pita.

I have not tried the E-Stik, but can take a guess that it doesn't feel right because you are trying to play a console game with an arcade control. Perhaps try to track down one of the old NES arcade style sticks and see if you like that any better (after finding a way to interface it to your computer - numerous products on the market for that). I would personally just find out what they used in the old Nintendo cabs and pick that.

A trip to the hardware store to get a new piece of metal for the control panel, assuming it is just a rectangle. If not, either have one fabricated or make one out of wood. If you plan it right, you just have to do it once.

As for art, if you can't find something, maybe it is because you don't know what you want? Once you know what you are after it is often as easy as scribbling on a napkin and turning to one of your artsy friends or even here on the forum. If you are going with a nintendo theme, why not try to design something that looks like it belongs? For example a plain old black or grey background with a couple of red stripes and the nintendo logo? Think about an SNES game box and the identifying features those all had back in the day.

That's the thing, not all sites offer the same version of roms, not all of them are compatible, some of them are missing internal files. It'd be really nice if the MAME community could like, get together and agree on a standard set that doesn't break each time a new version is out. Some games I wanted to play, don't work well with other versions, some games I can find only very specific versions of their romsets, ect, ect.

As far as the E-Stick goes, it's just really tight. I had a Zippy stick and it felt good and it responded really well and smooth. With the E-Stick, tilting a direction isn't good enough, you have to be tilting it like all the way to it's limit to get it to work correctly. While setting it up, it was also a massive pain in the ass to get it to hit diagonals accurately. I also didn't enjoy how the bottom twisted on, I actually had it happen where, while playing, the bottom part got weird or loose and suddenly I couldn't use the left direction, so I'd have to stop and like, fiddle with it. On a side note - I didn't attempt to play any console games with the E-Stiks, these were all arcade games.

As far as art goes? I decided I am going to go with a SNES build for the cabinet. I already got a marquee going



As far as the rest of the set up goes, I don't know, I was thinking of doing the cabinet like the housing of the game console and doing it white, with grey t-molding and then having a bit of blue in there somewhere, but it's still up in the air.

[WindDrake]

MAME is a documentation/preservation project first and foremost. ROM sets will change as they find overdumps, bad dumps, change out black-box implementations for actual PAL/GAL/etc PLD dumps, and the like. Names will change as filenames are updated to reflect where that particular IC was on the board, etc etc.

I don't think it's supposed to be convenient. They don't care if finding X Rom working in the latest version is hard and Y Rom broke compatibility with a set from several versions ago. They are trying to document and preserve, the fact that we get to run cabinets off of the software is a bonus, not the goal.

For everything else, I'll just parrot the other posters.

[BadMouth]

It'd be really nice if the MAME community could like, get together and agree on a standard set that doesn't break each time a new version is out. Some games I wanted to play, don't work well with other versions, some games I can find only very specific versions of their romsets, ect, ect.

The only way that would happen is if work on MAME ceased.

If you don't want the hassle of figuring out all this stuff and keeping your roms up to date, just find a version and stick with it.
All the roms on a given site should be the same version.  The best way to do it is to install torrent software and download an entire set at once.

Someone posted a noob tutorial once upon a time and included a website for roms (very against the rules).
That site had stopped updating around v.127 and had MAMEUI v.127 for download.

Most people don't bother updating MAME on their cabs until something they consider worth updating for is added.
Why update when everything you want to play works?

[JDFan]

It'd be really nice if the MAME community could like, get together and agree on a standard set that doesn't break each time a new version is out. Some games I wanted to play, don't work well with other versions, some games I can find only very specific versions of their romsets, ect, ect.

The only way that would happen is if work on MAME ceased.

If you don't want the hassle of figuring out all this stuff and keeping your roms up to date, just find a version and stick with it.
All the roms on a given site should be the same version.  The best way to do it is to install torrent software and download an entire set at once.

Someone posted a noob tutorial once upon a time and included a website for roms (very against the rules).
That site had stopped updating around v.127 and had MAMEUI v.127 for download.

Most people don't bother updating MAME on their cabs until something they consider worth updating for is added.
Why update when everything you want to play works?

^THIS --- with the new release of 0.149 (as with pretty much every update) there is a new set of Downloads that has all of the ROMS needed and another already with all of the Artwork and Extras available (though it involves downloading around 35-40GB (9+ GB for the ART and 25+ for the ROMs ) and soon (actually looks like it was posted last night) there will be downloads available for the CHDs (154 GB +\-) and Laser discs (probably another 100+ GB ) if you look around some they can be easily found -- the main reason for the difficulties with MAME is that pretty much every site out there does not allow discussing how to go about getting the ROMS since the ones that do allow discussion of such matters eventually find themselves attracting to much attention from the various companies and license holders.

As BadMouth mentioned just because a new update comes out doesn't mean you have to update the version you are using - many people are still using very old versions since once you go through the setting up process and have things working you don't need to hassle with changing things just because a few more games get fixed esp.

 I think many of the major troubles people have with MAME is the fact that there are soooo many ROMs available and everyone seems to feel they need every one of them rather than just getting the ones they are actually going to use. (why does anyone need 28,000 + games) - If you make a list of say 50 - 100 that you will actually use then finding and maintaining them is much easier than dealing with 28,000+ games and 250GB +\- of files !!

Also you have to remember that the work involved in getting everything and the hassle of getting it all working is probably a good thing -- figure if it was to a point that anyone could just download and install and it just worked there would be a lot more incentive for the content license holders to attempt to stop the entire project as at that point it could actually effect them while the current situation keeps the user group down to a small enough size that there really is no incentive for them to bother trying to shut things down as it actually probably helps sales of the older content when they do decide to make a re-release of an older product since there is a current user base that is more familiar with the content. 

[PL1]

As previous posters have mentioned find a torrent that has the ROMs, art, CHDs, and other files you want including MAME.dat and history.dat.

If configuring MAME is giving you problems D/L the corresponding version of one of the GUI builds like MAME32 or (my favorite) MAMEUIFX.

Launch MAMEUIFX, right click on a game and select audit to see if you have the correct version of the ROM or if you need a parent ROM or driver.

Once you have all the ROMs for the games you want on your playlist, copy the contents of the MAMEUIFX\roms folder to the MAME\roms folder and you should have the correct version of the all the needed files.

From there it's not as difficult to get MAME working right.


Scott

[kuehnau]

MAME is a documentation/preservation project first and foremost. ROM sets will change as they find overdumps, bad dumps, change out black-box implementations for actual PAL/GAL/etc PLD dumps, and the like. Names will change as filenames are updated to reflect where that particular IC was on the board, etc etc.

I don't think it's supposed to be convenient. They don't care if finding X Rom working in the latest version is hard and Y Rom broke compatibility with a set from several versions ago. They are trying to document and preserve, the fact that we get to run cabinets off of the software is a bonus, not the goal.

For everything else, I'll just parrot the other posters.

Yeah, that's the kind of commentary I expect from the MAME community; you shouldn't have bothered. I personally feel the way they have the whole set up is nothing more then a massive inconvenience to, well everybody. They gotta be OCD.

It's just easier for me to go with something that is simply easier to archive and work with, I also don't need to worry about weather 'rom x' is going to work properly or not on hardware. The current hardware I got in the cab runs Dreamcast emulators just fine, but Mr. Driller is a garbage when it comes to MAME.

I chose the SNES because the game library offers a nice collection of arcade classics, while still offering a fairly nice library of other game classics. I think it should be fun having a dedicated SNES cabinet and I look forward to getting really drunk and playing Mario Kart with my roommates.

I found an image somewhere, I like the coloring and I think I am going to try and emulate that.

[kuehnau]

A mod should just delete this entire thread (or lock it) before we get another 20 users all on here saying the same thing about MAME.

[ppv]

*removed at the request of op*

[JDFan]

I found an image somewhere, I like the coloring and I think I am going to try and emulate that.

Looks like they just used a couple of the SNES Super Advantage controllers (see Pic below) to mount onto the CP shelf :

[kuehnau]

I found an image somewhere, I like the coloring and I think I am going to try and emulate that.

Looks like they just used a couple of the SNES Super Advantage controllers (see Pic below) to mount onto the CP shelf :

Yeah and I seriously thought about it, but everything you get these days is used, even buying parts to just wire my own CP was cheaper then paying $30.00+ for a single SNES advantage controller. Plus if something goes bad on it, it's easier to replace.

[thatpurplestuff]

Yeah, that's the kind of commentary I expect from the MAME community; you shouldn't have bothered. I personally feel the way they have the whole set up is nothing more then a massive inconvenience to, well everybody. They gotta be OCD.

Not trying to sound like a jerk here, but it's honestly pretty freakin simple to obtain a working romset for any given version of MAME, and it seems crazy to me that someone is complaining about the MAME authors striving to have emulation as accurate as possible.  I would much rather the MAME developers streamline each and every game as opposed to garbaging up the already ENORMOUS amount of code by worrying about backwards compatibility, especially since updating to the most current romset can literally be as easy as a few mouse clicks.

I would be careful saying that the way MAME operates is a huge inconvenience to everyone, given that the majority of responses on this very thread indicate otherwise.  That along with the fact that no one is forcing you to update to every new version makes this complaint about compatibility just strange to me.  As long as you know which romset you have, you should be able to download that specific version of MAME and have every single game playable (assuming that the game is listed as playable).  Again not trying to sound like a jerk, but you're ranting about a problem that is easily corrected on your end.

[thatpurplestuff]

In regards to cabinet artwork, here's an example of an image that I'm planning on using for a digital marquee.  You can ignore the box art, that's just to show what game is currently selected in the menu.  I love the ridged vents on the top of the NES, and you could probably incorporate it into the control panel or the sides of the cab for some pretty sweet results.

Here's an example from jdbailey1206 of a really sweet control panel layout using the NES Advantage. He's got other images as well of alternate designs using the original control pad and some other stuff in the thread -> http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=129071.0



The nice thing about the original Nintendo is that it's so iconic that visually you can go in a lot of different directions and have it still be recognizable.

[kuehnau]

Yeah, that's the kind of commentary I expect from the MAME community; you shouldn't have bothered. I personally feel the way they have the whole set up is nothing more then a massive inconvenience to, well everybody. They gotta be OCD.

Not trying to sound like a jerk here, but it's honestly pretty freakin simple to obtain a working romset for any given version of MAME, and it seems crazy to me that someone is complaining about the MAME authors striving to have emulation as accurate as possible.  I would much rather the MAME developers streamline each and every game as opposed to garbaging up the already ENORMOUS amount of code by worrying about backwards compatibility, especially since updating to the most current romset can literally be as easy as a few mouse clicks.

I would be careful saying that the way MAME operates is a huge inconvenience to everyone, given that the majority of responses on this very thread indicate otherwise.  That along with the fact that no one is forcing you to update to every new version makes this complaint about compatibility just strange to me.  As long as you know which romset you have, you should be able to download that specific version of MAME and have every single game playable (assuming that the game is listed as playable).  Again not trying to sound like a jerk, but you're ranting about a problem that is easily corrected on your end.

Okay, you know what? Let's argue then.

There are several websites I go to, to access roms, most of them actually do have a MAME version applied to them. What's amazing is, even then, there's been times when even if I am running the version they support, the rom won't work, saying it's missing files.

Or what about versions of MAME I don't WANT to use? I should have to use a funky ass old version of MAME just because a romset hasn't been updated in forever.

Like the version of Battle Toads that was floating around online, I went to like 4 or 5 different websites and finally I looked at the error log, saw what was missing and then opened up ALL of the versions of Battle Toads I had, found the missing files in like three separate versions and dumped them ALL into one folder and it FINALLY worked.

Every single version of SMB 3 I have found, none of them work with the version of MAME I have and I am not about to turn around and break the archive I already have, just because I can't get a single game to work properly.

Or hey, how about how, for whatever asinine reason, I have to have the 4-player version of TMNT in order for the 2-player version of TMNT to work.

Or, I love how, MAME actually used to have some sort of high score back-up thing going on, but because it was an emulated featured that was added on and not actually an authenticate part of most cabinets they decided to remove it. So someone had to come around, design and patch and have people compile their own versions of MAME because the high and mighty developers who work on the software didn't like it.

No, you know what? It's a cluster ---fudgesicle---, that's what it is. There's no good reason why they have to break stuff every single time they update to a new version, all they are doing is inconveniencing people who would otherwise not have any issues. You are telling me to do something and I am telling you, "NO", I shouldn't have to. The only reason why I was even using official MAME was because the compiled version I use, MAME++ isn't supported by the frontend I want to use. 

I'd rather spend my time using something else then having to dick around with their classy software.

[chopperthedog]

You're right, the ability to play 1000's of games for free should be wrapped up in a neat little package just for you. /me shakes fist at MAME devs for not spoon feeding this guy.


good day.

[CoryBee]

You're right, the ability to play 1000's of games for free should be wrapped up in a neat little package just for you. /me shakes fist at MAME devs for not spoon feeding this guy.
good day.

 

[Haze]

It's a common complaint, although there really isn't anything we can do about it.

MAME represents what we know, if something comes along to improve that knowledge then it gets added, sometimes the romsets change, a lot of this is in the name of keeping things organized.

When you take an old version it was made at a period in time when we don't know what we know today, you wouldn't buy a medical textbook and expect every page to include outdated and proven to be wrong knowledge from the previous edition of the book presented as fact, MAME is no different.

I do fully appreciate it can be disruptive to the usage patterns some people want to have, but at the same time we can't be afraid of change because that would also mean being afraid of progress.  Unfortunately in extreme cases I've actually seen people say they wish the project would just die and stop being updated so that the ROMs would stop changing, a little selfish if you ask me.

[thatpurplestuff]

"Okay, you know what? Let's argue then."

Not looking to argue as I couldn't care less if you use MAME or not.  Good luck with the cab!

[blashyrk]

I don't understand why people are complaining about how difficult it is to setup mame, you know that is free right? People are actually using their free time to improve and preserve a huge amount of gaming history, I have had games that won't work because i downloaded them from a dodgy rom site, as many are saying, you can download a complete rom set and then you won't have any issues with incompability. I am so greatful for mame, thanks to the mame devs i get to play many of my favorite arcade games right at home.

[BobA]

Get MAME and get a matching ROM set for it.   Wow it runs.  Boy is that hard.   

[Dawgz Rule]

Get MAME and get a matching ROM set for it.   Wow it runs.  Boy is that hard. 

Add a free front end and away you go.  Not hard at all.  I managed to figure it out before I even knew this forum existed. 

The one thing I will give you is that it can take some time and effort to get all of the bells and whistles running but these aren't necessary to get a basic system up and running.

[WindDrake]

-Zip-

Then don't use MAME. It's a documentation project, not a plug-and-go magic gaming box you jam things into and get to play games. A little footwork is a decent price to pay for the stuff MAME lets us play.

Go plug roms into your 2007 copy of ZSNES and be happy.

Coming on here to bait and troll because you have nothing else to do is just lame.

[rpgposer]

Haze is really being nice here.  I use clrmamepro to make sure I have the best set I can for whatever version of mame is in use:  http://mamedev.emulab.it/clrmamepro/
Please understand that mame changes as it attempts to become more accurate.  As it changes, the rom base changes.
I know it seems frustrating, but you are going through the same things that most of have gone through.  I have a few NES and SNES games on my cab, but you will discover that most aren't arcade friendly.
I have a small subset of mame emulated games on my cab, the ones I really like to play.  I keep up with the latest version or mame and roms.  It's work, but not that much with the right tools and experience.  Experience comes with time and energy spent to understand.

[yotsuya]

You're right, the ability to play 1000's of games for free should be wrapped up in a neat little package just for you. /me shakes fist at MAME devs for not spoon feeding this guy.


good day.

***slow 80s clap for chopper***

[BobA]

+1 for Windrake