Curved vs Straight button layout.....let's settle this with a poll.

[severdhed]

I know this has been discussed hundreds of times over the years with heated debates, however i searched and couldn't find where we have done a poll to settle this.  I picked up the wood and supplies to start building my new cabinet tomorrow.  I have had built several panels over the years, with both straight and curved layouts, and right now I am leaning towards the curved layout, but i figured i'd see what you all think is better. 

[CoryBee]

Curved. Natural placement of my fingers on a table...so, yea

[shponglefan]

Curved: specifically, just the first column of buttons slightly lower than the next two colums (which are straight).  I've tried more radically curved layouts, but I find this one to be the most comfortable and natural to use.

[harveybirdman]

I like Badmouth's layout the best, as I prefer the 7th button on the top right instead of the lower left.

[RandyT]

My thoughts are that it really is a preference matter.  One can get used to both, but straight, or only slightly offset, seems a little more intuitive than layouts which may leave the player searching for the proper buttons in the midst of the action.

[sharpfork]

My first couple of cabs used a standard, straight SFII layout and my hands and wrists would get fatigued after long gaming sessions.  13 years later, my older wrists start to hurt after just a few games with a straight layout at my local barcade.
I very much prefer the combination of a curved layout and a flat or only slightly inclined cp.  The Japanese candy cabs add the bonus of being able to sit on a normal chair while playing.

[BadMouth]

I like Badmouth's layout the best, as I prefer the 7th button on the top right instead of the lower left.

Thanks! 

For reference, middle four in a square with first row offset by exactly half, last row offset by less.  Here 'tis:


As far as curved layouts go, this is what I like.  But to be honest, I like the straight 6 just as well.
I used a curved layout on this cab because I wanted a modern cab to play modern games.
If it were a Dynamo cab, I'd be using the straight 6 from Street Fighter.

Oddly enough, I really like the curved layout for games that only use two or three buttons (or with an occasionally used 4th).

On Mortal Kombat though, I still fumble with the curved layout because I've played it enough that my fingers still want LP and LK to be level with each other.  I play MK with guests on the x-arcade fairly often, so that makes adjusting harder.
Moving the first two buttons up a bit, level with the D would probably alleviate that a bit, but I like them where they are for two and three button games.

I'm in the process of setting up Mortal Kombat Komplete on my cab.  While the buttons can be remapped, the game still displays the default xbox keys when in training mode or giving instructions.  For that reason, I was considering putting ABCD on the bottom, but I just can't get used to it.  My fingers automatically go to the top row.  It's a consideration though with most PC games using xbox360 controls for reference.  Also makes me wonder if that 8th button is such a bad idea after all. 

[michelevit]

streetfighter layout for me and all the cabs i build.

[brad808]

After putting extensive play on both I can say it literally makes no difference at all. Zero difference. Never once missed a button, never once had any guests complain on any of my cabinets. I switch to both all the time. Just do whatever looks best on your cabinet style.

Sent from my Nexus 4

[DaveMMR]

I think either is fine as well, unless you're into fighting games at a professional level (where every little tweak may make the difference between winning and losing.) The only thing I recommend is to not 'overdo' the curve to the point where it almost looks like a random mess of buttons rather than an ordered layout.

FWIW: I did straight on my first build, may do a slight curve (more of an offset actually) for my next. 

[CoryBee]

I also think that the curved layout has a more visual appeal

[Le Chuck]

I like a SF layout packed as tightly together as possible.  Makes combos easier for me in the versus games and in the SFs. 

[Xiaou2]

I dont think a poll in this case is going to prove anything...  just like so many masses of people listen to Beiber and think hes great.

 The 6button layout was designed for Streetfighter II.  It used 2 rows of 3 buttons, with each button being so close that
the button edges are nearly touching.   Being able to hit all 3 of either the top or bottom set, was key in its usage.

 Later the Neo Geo came out... and the button setup was probably designed for one of its upcoming games "Samuri Showdown" ,which required 4 buttons to be bashed at once.  Rather than use a Tekken style 2x2...  they ran all 4 buttons in a row.   If there was no curve, a player with smaller hands would not be able to press all buttons at once.

 Japanese machines changed their controllers over time... and started using flat or raised buttons... as well as those cheapie feeling, clunky, clicky, and often overly sensitive ..sticks.    The raised (Convex) button help with using curved layouts (as you can lay out hand flatter for usage).. where as concave buttons cause more of a problem in this manor...  most notably, you tend to hit the hard edge of a button rather than the comfortable middle.

 The argument is that your fingers naturally form a curve.  However... thats Only when they are flat on the table.  When you play a game, or even type on your keyboard... your fingers bend at the kunckles, and pretty much even out the distances... forming a perfectly comfortable straight line.  Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts.   

 Many keyboard Buttons also have a slight concave curve.. for the same reasons.. to allow the user to feel where to put his fingers.. and to keep from accidentally slipping off, and losing track of position. Also for comfort sake.
 Sadly, Apple came along, and created some of the Worse keyboard designs ever imaginable... in terms of comfort and functionality... and the money savings, and stylized look, have caught a lot of mfgs. attention.

 It also depends on the kinds of games you play.   If you dont play fighters.. then odd button layouts may be fine.
But for the fighter game fans, this can be a huge detriment in their gameplay.

 And finally.. if your SFII style layout has its buttons spaced more than 1mm apart.. people often will feel too much strain and discomfort.  Especially those with small hands.



 I was a former curved button creator, using concave buttons.. who quickly found out that the layout didnt play as well as it looked.  Nor did it even function as I had originally thought it would.  Fighters were completely unplayable...  and even games that used 3 in a row..  I often pressed the edges of the middle button... which sucked.

[Vigo]

As I get older and more into the hobby, my plan right now is to create specific cabinets for different genres, rather then only one cab to rule them all. layout will depend on the build. When I build my next "Master" cab, I will probably be copying Neph's style, curved and 4 on the bottom, with the light up buttons and all. As my brains turn into mush over the years, I will def. need those lights to tell me what buttons to use.

[paigeoliver]

The Neo Geo layout actually dropped the first button a tiny bit because the usable part of the control panel on the most common new japanese cabinets at the time were about 2mm too narrow to do the buttons in a straight line. They then exaggerated that drop for the US released cabinets and kits. The system had been out for 2 and a half years before Samurai Shodown came along, so that probably wasn't even considered. The fighting games the system became known for weren't even really a factor at system release, only one of the first 35 Neo Geo titles was even a fighting game. Although after that the system went about 60 percent fighting games and stayed that way.

If you go look at flyers and pictures of Japanese cabinets from the height of the fighting game era, you will see that there were no wicked curves anywhere to be seen. It was all curves so mild that they might as well have not been there at all.

[AGarv]

If you are going for classic arcade authenticity, then no curve.  Guests will not be accustomed to your particular flavor of curved buttons.  IMO asking a serious SF2 player to play against you with your custom, curved buttons is borderline rude.  Might as well hand a rapier to a samurai, then ask him to duel you.

If you play solo marathon sessions for hours on end, then perhaps curved.  Even then, the "straight" SF2 button layout can work well ergonomically if you have enough distance between the joystick and the buttons to allow for a decent wrist angle.

[Dawgz Rule]

The argument is that your fingers naturally form a curve.  However... thats Only when they are flat on the table.  When you play a game, or even type on your keyboard... your fingers bend at the kunckles, and pretty much even out the distances... forming a perfectly comfortable straight line.  Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts.   

There is absolutely no truth to your keyboard analogy.   The simple truth is that modern keyboards are simply a carryover from the typewriter. 

When I place my hand in a comfortable format for gaming, there seems to be a natural curve.  It definitely does not form a "perfectly comfortable straight line". 

[Fursphere]

If you are going for classic arcade authenticity, then no curve.  Guests will not be accustomed to your particular flavor of curved buttons.  IMO asking a serious SF2 player to play against you with your custom, curved buttons is borderline rude.  Might as well hand a rapier to a samurai, then ask him to duel you.

If you play solo marathon sessions for hours on end, then perhaps curved.  Even then, the "straight" SF2 button layout can work well ergonomically if you have enough distance between the joystick and the buttons to allow for a decent wrist angle.

If you're going to go to that extreme, you better be using the proper joystick too, and the proper button types (leaf vs. micro swift).

Oh, whats that?  You're a console SF2 player?   Bah..  whatever.

[lanman31337]

I enjoy fighters just like everyone else, and when I build control panels, I use curved button layouts.  Regardless what game I'm playing, it's comfortable.  I have no problem doing my combos with Street Fighter.

[Unstupid]

The argument is that your fingers naturally form a curve.  However... thats Only when they are flat on the table.  When you play a game, or even type on your keyboard... your fingers bend at the kunckles, and pretty much even out the distances... forming a perfectly comfortable straight line.  Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts.   

There is absolutely no truth to your keyboard analogy.   The simple truth is that modern keyboards are simply a carryover from the typewriter. 

When I place my hand in a comfortable format for gaming, there seems to be a natural curve.  It definitely does not form a "perfectly comfortable straight line".

Very True.  Also consider that keyboard keys are only appx .75" apart while the spacing on arcade buttons is appx twice that, and as you spread your fingers apart they revert back into a curved arc. Try placing 4 fingers on letters H,J,K,L... Easy right?  Now place the same four fingers on D,G,J,L...  Not so easy eh?  Now try D,T,U,L...  Which is more comfortable?

[CoryBee]

The argument is that your fingers naturally form a curve.  However... thats Only when they are flat on the table.  When you play a game, or even type on your keyboard... your fingers bend at the kunckles, and pretty much even out the distances... forming a perfectly comfortable straight line.  Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts.   

There is absolutely no truth to your keyboard analogy.   The simple truth is that modern keyboards are simply a carryover from the typewriter. 

When I place my hand in a comfortable format for gaming, there seems to be a natural curve.  It definitely does not form a "perfectly comfortable straight line".

Very True.  Also consider that keyboard keys are only appx .75" apart while the spacing on arcade buttons is appx twice that, and as you spread your fingers apart they revert back into a curved arc. Try placing 4 fingers on letters H,J,K,L... Easy right?  Now place the same four fingers on D,G,J,L...  Not so easy eh?  Now try D,T,U,L...  Which is more comfortable?

I like you.

[Xiaou2]

It definitely does not form a "perfectly comfortable straight line".

 And are you using Flat / Convex buttons... or are they Concave?

 Its FAR more comfortable pressing a Concave button with a Vertical downstroke, rather than with a flat hand !!!
That COMPLETELY eliminates the very REASON why there is a 'finger cradling depression'.   In using a button this way.. your going to be constantly pressing your fingers into a hard pointed edge.  And how exactly is that more comfortable?!

 Not only that... but the very use of flat or convex buttons is non ergonomic, and far more fatiguing on the fingers.

1) With the hand flat, the fingers not having a bend at the knuckle to provide the spring-force, you lose:

  a) mechanical advantage
  b) You lose press power
  c) You lose reaction time
  d) You lose dexterity and fast accurate presses  (try drumroll type exercises spanning 3 keys)
  e) You will fatigue much quicker, because of these losses

2) Please show me, and or design a keyboard that fits everyones flat laid out hand.  (good luck!)  And then, have them type on it to get the most words per minute..   and do fatigue tests.    Ohh wait.. none exist.. and thats for good reason...  reasons listed above, and more. 

 (hint:  you cant design such a thing, cause everyones hand shape & finger lengths are different... thus, one more reason why flat handed buttons setups are POOR for human ergonomics, and thus especially bad for accurate gameplay!   HOWEVER... a vertically pressed button setup... can be adapted to ANY size hand or finger length)

asking a serious SF2 player to play against you with your custom, curved buttons is borderline rude.  Might as well hand a rapier to a samurai, then ask him to duel you.

 I completely agree!   

as you spread your fingers apart they revert back into a curved arc.

 That depends on IF you chose to let the middle finger drop down, or keep it vertically bent at the knuckle.  I feel most people would prefer to keep the power of that digit for downward force, response speed, less fatigue and accuracy.

 By placing your fingers on S, D & F..  keep the middle finger on D, and just move the two outside fingers one key over to a & g.   Note, that you dont have to lose the Bend in your middle finger.. and even the side fingers still remain about the same height. A mm at most in my test.  The only real change, is that they roll over slightly on an axis.  Therefore, the downforce and leverage, is pretty much the same.

Try placing 4 fingers on letters H,J,K,L... Easy right?  Now place the same four fingers on D,G,J,L...  Not so easy eh?  Now try D,T,U,L...  Which is more comfortable?

 WHY would you place 4 buttons in a straight line, and expect them to be all hit at the same time?

 The 6 button layout, is for SF style fighting games.  Spanning 3 arcade buttons is easy for most, especially in that you dont do it repeatedly like a machinegun.  If this were that difficult to do.. then nobody could play a simple chord on a keyboard.

 As for 4 buttons at once...  most of those games are laid out in a Tekken 2x2 array.  And games like Samuri Showdown, could very well be played the same way.  However, in the event that you want to play SS with a straight layout.. add that 7th button at a slight drop, as seen pretty much all over the place here... which allows the pinky to use the last button effectively.   (being that, unlike the cm size difference of the middle and side fingers... the pinky is about 2x that, a full inch in height difference)

[Dawgz Rule]

Its FAR more comfortable pressing a Concave button with a Vertical downstroke, rather than with a flat hand !!!

Umm....who said anything about a flat hand?

[Malenko]

The 6button layout was designed for Streetfighter II.  It used 2 rows of 3 buttons, with each button being so close that
the button edges are nearly touching.   Being able to hit all 3 of either the top or bottom set, was key in its usage.

 Later the Neo Geo came out... and the button setup was probably designed for one of its upcoming games "Samuri Showdown" ,which required 4 buttons to be bashed at once. 

Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts.   

 Many keyboard Buttons also have a slight concave curve.. for the same reasons.. to allow the user to feel where to put his fingers.. and to keep from accidentally slipping off, and losing track of position.

Other than Zangief's "Spinning Lariat" , no moves required more than 1 button to be pressed at a time (this changed after SFIICE and more fighters needed 3 buttons pressed)
Other than Galford and Hanzo's "ninja vanish" move that requires BCD, no move requires more than 2 buttons (typically AB or CD). No moves require all 4.
Citation needed on 95% of straight keyboards. All the law firms my company does tech support for, their secretaries all use "ergonomic" keyboards. I personally cant use them but I'm sure their market share is more than 5 percent.
Dell, who supplies hardware to a significant number of companies manufacture their keyboards with concave keys. Also, typically the home keys (F and J) have a raise on them so users dont lose their place on the keyboard.

I totally agree with you on the poll thing though, its pointless.  Just make a cardboard mock up and see which you prefer.

[BadMouth]

Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else.  Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. 

The guy who wrote the tutorial just happened across a model of television with a tube that had a nearly identical model number to the tube on the x/y monitor.  Since then, everyone who has ever done it has used that same model TV.  Who knows how many other models might work?  There might be a more common model that works.  There might be years of production runs from a certain manufacturer in various sizes that the x/y yoke would fit.
We'll never know because nobody bothers trying it with any other model than the one in the tutorial.

While a poll isn't one guy's tutorial, there is still a danger of it becoming "the standard" which isn't necessarily the best solution.
The next poll will be more overwhelmingly for curved, because the people who looked at this one went along with it.

[UFO]

Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else.  Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. 

The guy who wrote the tutorial just happened across a model of television with a tube that had a nearly identical model number to the tube on the x/y monitor.  Since then, everyone who has ever done it has used that same model TV.  Who knows how many other models might work?  There might be a more common model that works.  There might be years of production runs from a certain manufacturer in various sizes that the x/y yoke would fit.
We'll never know because nobody bothers trying it with any other model than the one in the tutorial.

While a poll isn't one guy's tutorial, there is still a danger of it becoming "the standard" which isn't necessarily the best solution.
The next poll will be more overwhelmingly for curved, because the people who looked at this one went along with it.

Maybe the question should have been "What have you got on your control panel?"

[shponglefan]

The argument is that your fingers naturally form a curve.  However... thats Only when they are flat on the table.  When you play a game, or even type on your keyboard... your fingers bend at the kunckles, and pretty much even out the distances... forming a perfectly comfortable straight line.  Which is the reason why 95% of computer uses.. use standard straight keyboard layouts.   

In my experience, my fingers do not form a perfectly straight line on a keyboard, when bent for the purposes of typing.  They curve; my index finger on each hand naturally rests on the row below the rest of my fingers.

At any rate, I would wager that a combination of cost and lack of common ergnonomic keyboard standards is the biggest reason they never caught on.

[paigeoliver]

Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else.  Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. 

I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

[Unstupid]

I'm not saying that every cab should have angled buttons.  If I was building a Street Fighter 2 cab the I'd definitely use the 2 straight rows of 3 buttons.  But if you are building a modern day fighter (SFIV) they have been using arched buttons on the viewlix cabs for 5 years now, and it is more comfortable.   So there is something to be said for innovation.  But just because something is "classic" does not make it the rule, unless ofcourse you are building a classic machine, and even then there is room to fudge a little because I'm sure there are things arcade manufacturers would have loved to had access to 25 years ago (e.g. led lighting, lcd panels, etc..etc..)

[chopperthedog]

* chopperthedog clicks the imaginary thanks button for paigeoliver's last post.

good day.

[UFO]

Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else.  Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. 

I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

I'm sticking my neck out and risking it get cut here, but I only agree partly.

This hobby can be split into several threads:

• Restorations
• Scratch original builds
• Build your own

'Restorations' and 'scratch builds' speak for themselves, but the 'build your own' category is an eclectic collection of peoples own needs and wants.

I am a traditionalist and love the old arcade cab look - I was 15 in 1985 and the cabs at the time are the ones I played and fell in love with. However, I just don't have the space for a full size replica cab or I would build one, therefore it suits my needs to build a 3/4 sized one.

Bartops fall into the same issue. Many people just don't have the space, or maybe want something more portable.

In most peoples "Project Announcement", they are usually clear about the reasons for their build / size and style (good or bad).

The problem arises when someone tries to build an all singing all dancing cab with every innovation / technique ever used. Putting anything and everything - without and real concern about direction - often ends up with a bit of a mess.

The other issue is that "classic" may mean one thing to someone my age, but to someone 20 years my junior doesn't have the same meaning. Design has moved on and people want a different look to their designs.

It would be a shame to miss out on new design and innovation such as is on OND's cab, and I for one think its a good thing.

I agree that the button issue has been done to death though, and we should move on! 

[DaveMMR]

What I find the most comical is that this topic stirs such heated debate. I think it's the silliest thing to focus on when designing your CP. Are people spending so much time on their cab that they're in danger of crippling their hands due to a straight layout? I'd be worried about a comfortable stool first in that case.

My theory is this: If you have to ask which layout is better - straight or curved - then it likely doesn't matter beyond aesthetics. If you're playing fighters on a professional level, you already know EXACTLY how you like your buttons and do not need validation from your peers much in the same way a professional bowler doesn't ask other bowlers how he should have his ball drilled. You're not going to miraculously become a better player if you curve your buttons or vice versa.

I know paigeoliver is more on the 'purist' side of the fence (as am I to a degree) but his points are valid as sometimes these home redesigns hinder actual playability. I don't think it's a bad idea to consider the designs of actual cabinets first (except Virtua Fighter) before tweaking them for multi-game home use.

 

[shponglefan]

I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

See, the thing which I think some people don't understand is that not everyone is necessarily looking to recreate a 1980's arcade cabinet.  There are these things called innovation and progress, which generally comes when people experiment with ideas to see what works and what doesn't.  The fact there are some who are willing to experiment is a good thing!  Yeah, sometimes the results aren't very good, but a failed experiment is better than no experiments at all.

Now if some people want to stick to reveling in designs from the 80's, that's perfectly fine.  And if some people want to take arcade building into the 21st century, that's fine too.  There's room for both here.

[paigeoliver]

I understand that perfectly well. In fact, what most people are building here is a lot closer to mid 90s design.

I also understand that half of those unique designs and experiments are flip over hazards and one day one of them is going to kill someone's kid.

Go look at real cabinets for 25"/27" games, the control panels never stick out more than a few inches past the front of the cabinet. This keeps the cabinets stable and they are essentially impossible to flip over.

Now go look at your average scratchbuild around here. You will often see the edge of the control panel inexplicably come out 3" past the front of the control panel box, which itself is coming out 8" inches past the front of the cabinet, then about a foot further down the cabinet will inexplicably kick in another 10"-12" where an impossible to reach coin door is then placed. The end result can be a cabinet that will flip forward onto the ground if a toddler decides to hang on the edge of the control panel. End result, dead child.

Even without the flip over hazard, aesthetically a lot of custom builds have control panels that don't look like they are part of the machine, they look like they came off of something else entirely.

I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

See, the thing which I think some people don't understand is that not everyone is necessarily looking to recreate a 1980's arcade cabinet.  There are these things called innovation and progress, which generally comes when people experiment with ideas to see what works and what doesn't.  The fact there are some who are willing to experiment is a good thing!  Yeah, sometimes the results aren't very good, but a failed experiment is better than no experiments at all.

Now if some people want to stick to reveling in designs from the 80's, that's perfectly fine.  And if some people want to take arcade building into the 21st century, that's fine too.  There's room for both here.

[AGarv]

Where the polling is concerned, there is a danger on the internet of one guys tutorial becoming the standard because of people following it instead of risking failure by trying something else.  Maximus' TV tube to x/y monitor conversion had me thinking about this. 

I see so much of this in the BYOAC community that is it almost comical. There are a whole bunch of oddball design bits that I constantly see on BYOAC cabinets that just weren't on real arcade games. Those all came from well intentioned people who had little to no access or experience with real arcade games reinventing the wheel in their basement (usually in a shape other than round) and then putting up a website or tutorial and then having other people copy it.

Angled sticks, curved buttons, light up everything, front panel overhang, excessive side panel overhang, incorrect monitor angle for 4 player cabinets, bottom front cabinet bump in, rear bottom cabinet bump in, 2 piece cabinet build (thats great, the oddly top piece weighs 250 pounds and the bottom piece weighs 70, so much easier to deal with!!!!), controls you can't reach, speakers on the side of the cabinet, hard drive destroying sound systems just to pump out that lo fi mono sound, excessive control panel top to box overhang, unused excessive panel width, internal cabinet skeletons made with 2x4s, and the list goes on and on.

Now I admit the light up stuff is pretty cool, but the community seems to have gotten completely lost on what the basic woodworking of the front half and control panel of a 25"-27" arcade cabinet looks like.

Great post.  As a community we create machines to play games that are usually 10 to 30 years old. We create these machines to capture the feel and ergonomics of the original game. A USB control pad on our PC does not provide that true arcade experience.  So every time we establish a "standard" that deviates substantially from classic arcade machines, it is a head-scratcher.

Something is innovative if it represents an improvement over what came before. If we were all about gaming progress and innovation, we wouldn't spend our gaming time on retro emulators. We would spend our gaming time on titles published in 2013, on a keyboard and mouse - or even iOS type touchscreen games.  I can go out to the app store today and fine a dozen arcade style games that absolutely trash Donkey Kong on graphics, sound, and even (gasp) gameplay.  I still like playing Donkey Kong on a 4-way balltop better than pecking on my phone, though.  The innovative option isn't always preferred to the older option.

IMO part of what drives the "non-authentic standards" is age - a fresh BYOACer entering college now was born in 1995. Someone that age typically does not have much first-hand arcade experiences with retro games, so there is no experience to re-create. no 4-player TMNT memories, no SF2 line in the mall, no Double Dragon with your buddy, none of that.  Authenticity becomes largely irrelevant. This leaves a lot more room for design change.

[shponglefan]

Great post.  As a community we create machines to play games that are usually 10 to 30 years old.  We create these machines to capture the feel and ergonomics of the original game.

Well no, this isn't necessarily true.  And I think this is where there is a disconnect between the "purist" mentality versus those who just want to build an arcade machine and have fun.  Not everyone's motivations, needs, wants, etc are the same; and some people here need to understand and accept that.

A perfect example of this would be something like a fighting game "hit box".  It's completely non-standard way of controlling a fighting game; definitely not what you'd find on an old-school SF II cabinet.  But that doesn't mean it's not a perfectly viable way to control said games.

Further, I think anyone who really is looking to capture the true feel of the original arcade games, should be playing them on an original cab.  Anything less is a compromise; whether it's using a PC w/ MAME, non-original arcade monitor, non-original controls, and so on.  There is going to be a compromise somewhere; it's not a matter of "if", but "how much".  At which point people's questioning other's authencity is just a bunch of pots and kettles.

[shponglefan]

Now go look at your average scratchbuild around here. You will often see the edge of the control panel inexplicably come out 3" past the front of the control panel box, which itself is coming out 8" inches past the front of the cabinet, then about a foot further down the cabinet will inexplicably kick in another 10"-12" where an impossible to reach coin door is then placed. The end result can be a cabinet that will flip forward onto the ground if a toddler decides to hang on the edge of the control panel. End result, dead child.

Several things:

1) Dead toddlers may not be terribly relevant if one does not have toddlers running around their home.
2) Lots of things in households can be "flip-over" hazards; again it may or may not be relevant.
3) Unless you've actually tested the cabs in question, I doubt you make a blanket statement simply by looking at some pictures.
4) Based on what I've seen of scratchbuilds here, I think you exaggerate.  A lot.

Even without the flip over hazard, aesthetically a lot of custom builds have control panels that don't look like they are part of the machine, they look like they came off of something else entirely.

That may be true for some, but that's purely a question of aesthetics and not really relevant with respect to innovation or novelty.  Anyone can make a fugly cabinet, so I don't see how that's particularly relevant.