Flip horizontal video feed from jamma to analog input on TV? NEW ISSUES 8/23/13!

[TKW4rr10r]

Touching base on this issue again now that I'm finishing up some other projects:

I obtained a 6 player X-Men a few months back. Since then I got all the controls and PCBs (came with a spare) repaired and working. This is a monster cabinet for those that are familiar with it. It uses two 25" tubes (K7000s I believe), one displaying forward, and one mounted displaying up through a mirror, to stitch them together in one "seamless" widescreen.

The issue is with the video feed for the Left monitor, the one projected through the mirrored pane. I discovered the feed is not flipped at the monitor, but coming from the Jamma board flipped horizontally. This effects my plans for making this monster a multipurpose cab. I have a 50" screen (yes I already checked and it will fit) that also does side-by-side PIP. My ultimate goal was to restore this cabinet to original condition, but have the ability to also hook up a PC via HDMI, and switch video inputs / control panels for when I wanted to change this from the "stock" look to an ultimate HyperSpin machine.

So far the only solutions I've found on-line are dedicated "presentation boxes" that sit between the board and TV, and cost anywhere from $300-$500. Not ideal. Also batted around the idea of using a spare PC with an analog capture card installed. I wouldn't think the processing power needs to be that great for a CGA signal. But trying to find out the right combination of hardware/software to even make this happen, let alone synch with the other half of the game, is proving to be problematic.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Like most projects, seems to be a complicated issue that can be easily solved by just not using the original hardware. But there's something to be said for keeping the original controls and PCB in play. Otherwise it would just be another MAME cabinet 

[CraftyMech]

This is an old thread, but it may be of help: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?196502-Me-and-my-6-player-X-men-pcb

That guy went the PC capture route and seemed to have it working, so at least it is doable that way.

[TKW4rr10r]

This is an old thread, but it may be of help: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?196502-Me-and-my-6-player-X-men-pcb

That guy went the PC capture route and seemed to have it working, so at least it is doable that way.

Wow this is awesome news thank you so much  Been looking everywhere for some info, never thought to check the Neo-Geo boards, lol.

I was milling around that capture card route in my head, but now that I know it's actually possible and playable, I'll restart work on the beast tight away.
I see he used two cards since his LCD most likely didn't have side-by-side PIP. I think I'll be going a straight VGA or component route to the TV for one screen, and try running with just one capture card first for the left side. I'll need to output from the PC to the TV via VGA or component if possible, S-video at least. Boy this could turn into a rat's nest of cabling....

Thanks again!
(I may need to grab a couple generators from you when it's all said and done. )

[CraftyMech]

No problem!

I think it is great that you are committed to trying to make the original hardware work. If you get a chance, start a thread in the Projects forum and keep us posted on your progress.

[TKW4rr10r]

No problem!
I think it is great that you are committed to trying to make the original hardware work. If you get a chance, start a thread in the Projects forum and keep us posted on your progress.

I started a thread back in May when I first got the cabinet. Link is the X-Mame text in my sig   http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,132410.msg1362055.htm  ( I had to be fancy  ). After I repaired the audio chip on the PCBs and refreshed the controls/calibrated the tubes, nothing much else to figure out mechanically until the flipped video issue was addressed. I still have the MDF for rebuilding the control cab and should get that started soon now that my 2nd project (Ms. Pac) is all but finished (will post on that one soon).

I'll start updating that thread as I build the capture card hardware. May use a small ultra-slim PC or laptop with a USB capture card. I'm thinking an older laptop may be a good idea for space and being able to have the 2nd display if/when needed.

As soon as I can very playability, the tubes will be removed and the 50" will get shoe-horned into the video cab.  Stay Tuned.

[TKW4rr10r]

So I started the video conversion with the details provided in the above link (plan in my build thread in case you want all the info). In short, I purchased a USB capture card and setup an old laptop to process the flipping of the left video feed. Tested the capture ability and software flip on a DVD player via composite connection, and got everything working with no issues.

I then got my CGA - TV encoder:


Got everything hooked up correctly and first tested as a direct composite connection to my TV - blurry, and not flipped, but good (I plan to use S-Video anyway). But when I run the composite connection through the capture card:


Flipped, yay - picture, BOOO! I tried all the normal runs of testing (cabling, software tweaks) with nothing changing but the size of the mark on my forehead 
 
So process of elimination leads me to believe the issue is with the capture card and/or SW setup on the laptop. OR  it's an issue with the video feed from the jamma board not being one the capture card can properly translate.

I did some more digging on the subject. Found some have had luck using a "jrok sync cleaner". Now my encoder is not from jrok, but it seems others have used these without having one of his encoders, also. My question is, how does this cleaner connect in line with the rest of this equipment? I've found no instructions on this device.


Is this worth pursuing in my setup, or should I go with a different capture card? I can get the same card that was used in the neo forums link, but that will require an actual desktop build, which I was avoiding. Would switching to an S-Video connection make any difference? (I wouldn't think so)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[TKW4rr10r]

Really? Nobody has used a jrok sync cleaner before? Bueller?

[CraftyMech]

My guess is that the CSync from the CGA source would be fed through the JROK board, and then to the CGA->TV converter, and the RGB lines from the CGA source would be wired directly into the CGA->TV converter.

That seems like the only possibility, since the output from the CGA->TV converter is composite, and at that point there is no longer a separate sync line.

That said I think you will want to go with s-video over composite, so you might consider JROK's CGA->TV encoder.

[TKW4rr10r]

My guess is that the CSync from the CGA source would be fed through the JROK board, and then to the CGA->TV converter, and the RGB lines from the CGA source would be wired directly into the CGA->TV converter.

That seems like the only possibility, since the output from the CGA->TV converter is composite, and at that point there is no longer a separate sync line.

That said I think you will want to go with s-video over composite, so you might consider JROK's CGA->TV encoder.

Thanks for the help. I plan on testing S-Video sometime today to see how that compares. The CGA-TV adapter I currently have has this, as well. So hopefully I don't need to get jrok's adapter and just his synch cleaner if I still have issues.