BYOAC Needs a Karma/Rep System

[Nephasth]

Anyways, lets get our Wiki going strong and worry about the positive energy circle jerk later.

Yeah, I'm not all for "hugs for everyone".

The wiki is too damned outdated and I see no point in even getting it working again. It'd just take a crap ton of time to get it up to snuff. You'd still have lazy noobs starting new threads asking questions instead of actually searching themselves. They all seem to want everything placed in their laps.

[yotsuya]

Funny you say that. I'd rather see the main site get overhauled myself before I'd worry about the Wiki. This isn't 2002, afterall. 

[Malenko]

Funny you say that. I'd rather see the main site get overhauled myself before I'd worry about the Wiki. This isn't 2002, afterall. 

Sainty poo said the main site is dead. Im sure we can get cossackswarrior to go bump it anyway though.

[PL1]

The wiki is too damned outdated and I see no point in even getting it working again. It'd just take a crap ton of time to get it up to snuff. You'd still have lazy noobs starting new threads asking questions instead of actually searching themselves. They all seem to want everything placed in their laps.

So, instead we take a crap-ton-and-a-half of time typing up answers to the noobs instead of being able to ask, "What part of the FAQ/wiki didn't you understand?" which also sends the same, "Did you do your homework?" message to the lurking noobs.

If you look at just the posts I've done concerning VP Upper Flippers/MagnaSave, you'll see that some of the later posts had better info, some posts are better worded than others, I had to double back to earlier posts to correct a few errors, and some posts left out relevant details that were covered in some earlier posts in other threads.

Having the wiki working probably would have saved me about 5 hours of searching, consolidating, and re-typing posts on this one subject alone.

A functional wiki allows the basic concepts/techniques/methods of the hobby to be organized into a comprehensive logical presentation order that is almost impossible to achieve through thread posts alone.

A broken/outdated wiki and FAQ (currently only available via archive.org's Internet Wayback Machine) just encourages the noobs to ask the same old questions and makes it harder for us to pass along the fundamentals.


Scott

[Nephasth]

The wiki is too damned outdated and I see no point in even getting it working again. It'd just take a crap ton of time to get it up to snuff. You'd still have lazy noobs starting new threads asking questions instead of actually searching themselves. They all seem to want everything placed in their laps.

So, instead we take a crap-ton-and-a-half of time typing up answers to the noobs instead of being able to ask, "What part of the FAQ/wiki didn't you understand?" which also sends the same, "Did you do your homework?" message to the lurking noobs.

If you look at just the posts I've done concerning VP Upper Flippers/MagnaSave, you'll see that some of the later posts had better info, some posts are better worded than others, I had to double back to earlier posts to correct a few errors, and some posts left out relevant details that were covered in some earlier posts in other threads.

Having the wiki working probably would have saved me about 5 hours of searching, consolidating, and re-typing posts on this one subject alone.

A functional wiki allows the basic concepts/techniques/methods of the hobby to be organized into a comprehensive logical presentation order that is almost impossible to achieve through thread posts alone.

A broken/outdated wiki and FAQ (currently only available via archive.org's Internet Wayback Machine) just encourages the noobs to ask the same old questions and makes it harder for us to pass along the fundamentals.


Scott

The Two-Headed Beast was my first attempt at creating my own rig. Not once did I consult the wiki. The most valuable resource any new builder has is the Project Announcements section of the forum. You can learn from other people's mistakes and successes. You can also determine what you like aesthetically just by checking out other people's projects. The reason why noobs start a new thread to ask questions to which the answers can easily be found is because they're in too much of a hurry to read. Having a wiki won't solve that.

If you want to save yourself time from searching to answer a noob's question which you may have answered in the past, stop answering. The information is out there, let them go find it.

[Rigby]

If you want to save yourself time from searching to answer a noob's question which you may have answered in the past, stop answering. The information is out there, let them go find it.

Yup.  Sometimes the best teaching method is non-interference.

[PL1]

Different people have different learning styles.

Reading project announcements is a great way for people who are hands-on type learners to see how things fit together.

The FAQ and wiki are better for book type learners.

A good FAQ and wiki can give noobs a foundation of basic knowledge before they dig into the various builds.

Not having that type of foundation available encourages even more of them to ask ignorant questions.

Part of the reason I answer the questions is that it allows me to learn the subject better.

If you really want to learn something, try teaching it.   

At some point, it makes sense to consolidate and distill the knowledge we've learned into a more organized format and give it back to the community for everyone's benefit.   


Scott

[Rigby]

If you really want to learn something, try teaching it.   

Agreed.  I also find this to be true when I'm writing software documentation.  While I'm writing I somehow think of edge cases I did not think of when I was writing the software.  Writing proper docs has always either helped me better understand what I'm writing about, or discover things because I'm looking at it from a different angle.

I imagine teaching would be the very same.

[Le Chuck]

Rigby takes everybody's side. He's like a negatroll.

[Gray_Area]

cause smiley faces = super serious! 404 has beef with me, ebarlow doesn't. If someone can figure that out for me, I'd appreciate it. 

Ya all just need ta ---fudgesicle---.

You can also determine what you like aesthetically just by checking out other people's projects.

Fixed.

I also find this to be true when I'm writing software documentation.  While I'm writing I somehow think of edge cases I did not think of when I was writing the software.  Writing proper docs has always either helped me better understand what I'm writing about, or discover things because I'm looking at it from a different angle.

This is a major reason I hang out here. I have the opportunity to explore myself and fine tune it. I'm picky about where I do this, though. Here is the public place I spend the most time - a few hours every couple/few days - doing it.


@PL1: I think he meant Hoops meant brain stroke, yo. But, whether strokin yo'self, or somebody else, if yer not doin it some ways, mm.......

((case in point. I have so much fun))

[PL1]

@PL1: I think he meant Hoops meant brain stroke, yo.

That is how I took it and my reply meant that I was unsuccessful with ("striking-out") but not having a brain stroke over ("stroking-out") getting wiki logins restored, but then . . .




Scott

[Gray_Area]

That is how I took it and my reply meant that I was unsuccessful with ("striking-out") but not having a brain stroke over ("stroking-out") getting wiki logins restored, but then . . .


Scott

Oh. Well then.

[Nephasth]

Yes. Yes, it does.

[PL1]

Yes. Yes, it does.

Well, looks like this thread has come full circle.   

Here's another variation to consider -- a 2-part system.

Part one is the ability to "like" individual posts and/or threads Facebook-style.

Part two is the ability to rate individuals on a 5-star scale one vote for each other forum member Amazon-review-style.

Display the two ratings under their avatar like this:
 - Posts: 55
 - Likes: 42
 - Rep: ***** (25 votes)

To minimize spam/astroturfing, only enable these rating mechanisms for members with more than 20 posts.


Scott

[Le Chuck]

I'm with PL1 - and since we're quoting ourselves here's my two cents again 

Under the avatar list the number of post likes a person has and their number of followers.  Between those two numbers I think it could be useful.  People see Ond or Pixel poking around and notice they have a few thousand followers it's gets a message across that they're doing some cool stuff.  People see PL1 with a few thousand post likes and they know he puts out good poop.  Likes linked to posts, followers linked to users.  No dislike, no DO NOT FOLLOW, keep it positive. 

[Brian74]

+1 PL1 does put out good poop! The guy is everywhere! He's like the Shadow! The Shadow Knows!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

[PL1]

Le Chuck -  Sorry.  Forgot to mention that I stole half of your idea for the 2-part system.   

I like the "follow" idea for browsing, but not so much for rep.

One way to somewhat do "follow" now is to keep a browser tab open with "user profile - view all posts".   

The reason for the 5-star voting is to add a little nuance to the rep system by allowing a range of responses:
      * - Strongly dislike/disagree
     ** - Somewhat dislike/disagree
   *** - Neutral
  **** - Somewhat like/agree
***** - Strongly like/agree

In 'carrot and stick' terms, the likes are an unlimited supply of carrots, and the review stars can be one carrot, one stick, or one neutral.

I prefer to keep things positive, but there are times where a dose of negative reinforcement can be useful.

Like the old saying goes, "Spare the stick, spoil the forum."   


Scott

[TopJimmyCooks]

The pinside system is very good.  add a small amount of karma for any post or review/rating.  Click tilt warnings for posts you object to -offensive, sexist, whatever.  Then you set your own account to show or hide posts at whatever tilt warning level you want.  you can still click through and see a tilted/hidden post if you wish. 

[ChadTower]

The Pinside system leads to half the userbase posting the same bump post every other thread.

"Wish I were closer"
"good luck with sale"
"Throw some LEDs in that bad boy and you're awesome!"
"bdbd, nice ass, Buck"


There is so much noise there that it's hard to find the signal half the time.  Post count shouldn't contribute to overall status but that's what Pinside's karma function does.  Yeah, you get a little extra if someone thumbs up your post, but barely anyone uses that.  Wander around there and you'll find posts with jawdropping project images and videos without a single thumbs up.  I find myself frequently wondering how I could possibly be the first person pressing the thumbs up button on some things there.  Stuff like detailed playfield touchup tutorials months old and not a single post of example images with any thumbs up.

But man, every single FS thread, has 2 real posts and 10 post count bumps to build one's own karma.



Before anyone points out some sort of irony in me arguing against post counts meaning anything, that's my whole point.  My post count means nothing other than that I type really damn fast.

[TopJimmyCooks]

Those are true issues.

[ChadTower]

I thought of something last night.  Some forums have a "like" function for posts.  It's not connected to post count in any way I can tell.  Users are able to like individual posts.  Their user profile displays how many likes they have received and how many likes they have given.  There's no incentive, post count wise, to like anything.

Some others have a reputation function that operates mostly the same way.  There's no negative button, just a positive one, and so long as it's not attached to post count somehow that can be a useful thing.  Unfortunately I've seen a few forums where the REPutation button is right next to the REPort button and it's the REPort button that has REP on it.   

[Nephasth]

Yes. Yes, it does.

4 Month Bump!

Saint has still done nothing to fix the rep system. My PMs have fallen on deaf ears. When will the madness end?!

 

[PL1]

It's on his "To Do" list -- right after wiki logins.      


Scott

[matt4949]

The wiki is too damned outdated and I see no point in even getting it working again. It'd just take a crap ton of time to get it up to snuff. You'd still have lazy noobs starting new threads asking questions instead of actually searching themselves. They all seem to want everything placed in their laps.

So, instead we take a crap-ton-and-a-half of time typing up answers to the noobs instead of being able to ask, "What part of the FAQ/wiki didn't you understand?" which also sends the same, "Did you do your homework?" message to the lurking noobs.

If you look at just the posts I've done concerning VP Upper Flippers/MagnaSave, you'll see that some of the later posts had better info, some posts are better worded than others, I had to double back to earlier posts to correct a few errors, and some posts left out relevant details that were covered in some earlier posts in other threads.

Having the wiki working probably would have saved me about 5 hours of searching, consolidating, and re-typing posts on this one subject alone.

A functional wiki allows the basic concepts/techniques/methods of the hobby to be organized into a comprehensive logical presentation order that is almost impossible to achieve through thread posts alone.

A broken/outdated wiki and FAQ (currently only available via archive.org's Internet Wayback Machine) just encourages the noobs to ask the same old questions and makes it harder for us to pass along the fundamentals.


Scott

The Two-Headed Beast was my first attempt at creating my own rig. Not once did I consult the wiki. The most valuable resource any new builder has is the Project Announcements section of the forum. You can learn from other people's mistakes and successes. You can also determine what you like aesthetically just by checking out other people's projects. The reason why noobs start a new thread to ask questions to which the answers can easily be found is because they're in too much of a hurry to read. Having a wiki won't solve that.

If you want to save yourself time from searching to answer a noob's question which you may have answered in the past, stop answering. The information is out there, let them go find it.

I have been at this for about a year and I am definitely  a noob. I have built a cab, one I'm happy with and I am definitely a noob. The Wiki sucks!!!! Getting answers from anyone about anything sucks. The FAQs and stickies are a great tool and I want to thank Saint and everyone who has had any part in that. Between Stickies and FAQs and YOU TUBE searches and trial and error and more trial and a ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- load more error I am starting to kinda get my head around this fun satisfying and profitable (hahahahahahahahahaha) hobby. Any ways I feel bad for guys asking a simple look it up yourself question because I know they will get ignored until they go away. I really believe it is in the best interest for all of us to make things easier on the noobs. If we continue to be closed minded we will end up turning away some really interesting and fresh ideas. Anyways that's my 2 pennies and if you were wondering. VEGETABLE SOUP : it's what's for dinner.

[yotsuya]

You lost me at VEGETABLE SOUP, bro. 

[Malenko]

Ive always tried to help the new peeps. I meant I tried to Run Xuuche off, but he stuck around JK JK JK! 

[Brian74]

I try to help, but I think most of the time, it falls on deaf ears

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2

[Nephasth]

Negative rep for all of you.

[Le Chuck]

Negative rep for all of you.

The first rule of rep is you don't talk about rep

[Nephasth]

Yup, any day now.

Hey, it worked for PL1 and the wiki...

[Malenko]

Yup, any day now.

Hey, it worked for PL1 and the wiki...

Id guess at LEAST 5 more months. keep bumpin it brother!
 

[yotsuya]

We have a rep system. It's called the UCAs. 

[pbj]

The UCAs aren't happening.  Stop trying to make them happen.

[yotsuya]

Third year in a row, homes. Quit pissing in our Cheerios.

[pbj]

[wp34]

Let's get Tapatalk fixed first.  Leave the "rep" over on KLOV.

[yotsuya]

Amen on the Tapatalk!

[TopJimmyCooks]

TAP A TALK
TAP A TALK

TAP A Freakin TALK!!!!!!

[Starts beating on chest and humming the Matthew McConaghy song from Wolf of Wall St.]

[Nephasth]

Hey a-holes, start yer own thread!

[Le Chuck]

Hey a-holes, start yer own thread!

yeah!  -karma bishes!