Newbie needs help with shopping list

[Connorsdad]

Spent silly hours today reading forum posts regarding buttons, button layouts, top mount/under mount of joysticks, leds, led controllers, my head is spinning 

Anyway the reason for this post is I have some questions I'm hoping some of you can help me with 

1. It seems that Sanwa buttons are the way to go, am I right?

2. What sticks would you recommend for a cab used mainly for shoot em ups, fighting games and old school side scrollers?

3. After reading about LEDwiz am I right in assuming the PACled64 is the same thing and would allow me to use the 5050 led strip lights from Ebay (wiring no more than 15 leds per channel)?

4. Am I correct in thinking the I-PAC 2 will have sufficient inputs for the following:

                            2 X 8 way joysticks                                                             8 inputs?
                            2 X 7 buttons per player                                                   14 inputs?           
                            2 X Player start buttons                                                      2 inputs?
                            2 X Player coin buttons                                                       2 inputs?
                            1 X Trackball with 2 buttons                                                0 inputs?                    use Opti-pac?
                            1 X Spinner                                                                          0 inputs?                    use same Opti-pac?
                            6 X Pinball buttons (can double up on some inputs?)          2 inputs?
                                                                                                                       
Total 28
Spare 4 for admin

5. I know absolutely nothing about splicing/tapping into a power supply (Used to just plugging things in) how would I go about wiring up a motor to a power supply coming from the psu?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Drnick]

Spent silly hours today reading forum posts regarding buttons, button layouts, top mount/under mount of joysticks, leds, led controllers, my head is spinning 

Anyway the reason for this post is I have some questions I'm hoping some of you can help me with 

1. It seems that Sanwa buttons are the way to go, am I right?

2. What sticks would you recommend for a cab used mainly for shoot em ups, fighting games and old school side scrollers?

3. After reading about LEDwiz am I right in assuming the PACled64 is the same thing and would allow me to use the 5050 led strip lights from Ebay (wiring no more than 15 leds per channel)?

4. Am I correct in thinking the I-PAC 2 will have sufficient inputs for the following:

                            2 X 8 way joysticks                                                             8 inputs?
                            2 X 7 buttons per player                                                   14 inputs?           
                            2 X Player start buttons                                                      2 inputs?
                            2 X Player coin buttons                                                       2 inputs?
                            1 X Trackball with 2 buttons                                                0 inputs?                    use Opti-pac?
                            1 X Spinner                                                                          0 inputs?                    use same Opti-pac?
                            6 X Pinball buttons (can double up on some inputs?)          2 inputs?
                                                                                                                       
Total 28
Spare 4 for admin

5. I know absolutely nothing about splicing/tapping into a power supply (Used to just plugging things in) how would I go about wiring up a motor to a power supply coming from the psu?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

1) I am using Happs IL buttons, But Sanwa are equally as good. Personal preference here I am afraid.
2) If you worry about 4/8 way switching I recommend the MagStick Plus.  Great for Shoot em ups, Others will chime in with their favourites like the JLF or 360 ultrastick so once again this one is really Personal preference. 
3) I would check with Andy on that one but I believe that to be correct
4) Yes
5) Depends on if you need 5v or 12v but You can get Molex connections and take from red and black for 5v and yellow and black for 12v See the following. http://www.maplin.co.uk/hard-disk-drive-power-connectors-1317  Run some cable from the molex connection back to the solder/screw connections for the motor.

Hope some of that helps.

 

[shponglefan]

1. It seems that Sanwa buttons are the way to go, am I right?

Depends.  Best thing to do is buy a few kinds of buttons and see what you like best.  Personally, I prefer Seimitsu buttons over Sanwa's.  They are a bit less "clicky".

2. What sticks would you recommend for a cab used mainly for shoot em ups, fighting games and old school side scrollers?

In my experience, Sanwa JLF's are great for fighting games, but mediocre for everything else.  Conversely, Seimitsu LS-32's are awesome for shoot-em-ups, beat-em-ups, side-scrollers, etc, but not as good for fighting games.  HAPP Super's are also a decent and inexpensive all-around stick.

So I would say it depends on what you are going to play the most of.

3. After reading about LEDwiz am I right in assuming the PACled64 is the same thing and would allow me to use the 5050 led strip lights from Ebay (wiring no more than 15 leds per channel)?

I wouldn't assume anything.  I believe the PACLED is more current limited than the LEDWiz (at least, that seemed to be another poster's experience).

4. Am I correct in thinking the I-PAC 2 will have sufficient inputs for the following:

                            2 X 8 way joysticks                                                             8 inputs?
                            2 X 7 buttons per player                                                   14 inputs?           
                            2 X Player start buttons                                                      2 inputs?
                            2 X Player coin buttons                                                       2 inputs?

8 way joysticks only use 4 buttons (diagonals are triggered by hitting two switches at the same time).  But yes, it would have enough for the above.

5. I know absolutely nothing about splicing/tapping into a power supply (Used to just plugging things in) how would I go about wiring up a motor to a power supply coming from the psu?

I assume you're talking a basic DC motor?  You can wire stuff up w/ molox connectors.  It's not overly difficult.  But you want to make sure the voltage, current, etc, coming from the supply is appropriate for the motor.

[rCadeGaming]

Depends.  Best thing to do is buy a few kinds of buttons and see what you like best.

+1 for both sticks and buttons.  To me, Sanwa's feel more responsive.  Everything is a preference though, and you'll benefit from forming your own based on both research and hands-on testing.

In my experience, Sanwa JLF's are great for fighting games, but mediocre for everything else.  Conversely, Seimitsu LS-32's are awesome for shoot-em-ups, beat-em-ups, side-scrollers, etc, but not as good for fighting games.

+1 again.  If you're serious about fighting games, a stock JLF can't be beat.  The throw/engage distance is way too long for shmups though.  An LS-32 would be a better all-around stick, or if you want to try it I think a modded JLF is the best all-around stick.  Check the link in my signature.  Happs are "all-around sticks" in that they're equally mediocre for everything  .

You should read Slagcoin.com to learn about sticks, buttons, layouts, and some other stuff.

[Connorsdad]

Thanks guys

A few more Qs for you.

What gauge wire will I need to wire things such as Cp/leds/extending molex power supply. What size crimps/heat shrink should I buy?

[Dekieon]

Seems like everyone has you covered.

However, I would like to point out one thing though. Depending on what you get for your trackball and spinner, you may not need the opti-pac. Some of them just plug into a USB port, such as the ones from ultimarc.

[rtpb]

Thanks guys

A few more Qs for you.

What gauge wire will I need to wire things such as Cp/leds/extending molex power supply. What size crimps/heat shrink should I buy?

hey I just wired my first control panel this weekend. Most people recommend 20-22 gauge wires. They are thinner and easy to work with. I used CAT5 cables to wire mine, inside are eight 22 gauge wires perfect for wiring your CP. I also had some extra 16 gauge laying around and I found that to be too thick and not very friendly to bend. Certainly to thick for a .187 quick disconnect.

 Here is what I did with my cat5, cut the tips off and stripped the wires on each side (i left the bulk inside the protective covering to keep the wires together and clean). Strip one end and crimp on a .187 quick disconnect (bought these from amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HTB13S/ref=pe_175190_21431760_3p_M3T1_ST1_dp_1). The other end is stripped and screwed in to your keywiz or whichever you're using.

For the ground I removed the protective sheath from the wires, cut them into small equal pieces, stripped, twisted them together and then crimped on a disconnect. You can get a lot of wire from cat 5 cables. I used about 5 ft of cat5 for 1 controller.

There is a pretty good video of a guy wiring his control panel using cat5 on youtube.

[rCadeGaming]

I have been using 22 gauge in the past.  Might switch to 24 as its easier to work with, and still not too small.  20 is way too big.

American sticks and buttons use .187 quick disconnects.

Sanwa and Seimitsu buttons use .110, Seimitsu sticks use .187, and Sanwa JLF's have a harness, so no quick disconnects needed.

[brad808]

I have to disagree with you guys here on the ls-32 vs jlf. It seems pretty universal that the jlf is excellent for fighters and ls-32 is excellent for shmups, and that much I agree on. However I much prefer my jlf's as an "all around" stick any day of the week. Especially on something like a mame cabinet where theres a good chance you'll be firing up other style games at some point.

On my jlf with octagonal restrictors I can play everything without getting frustrated, even if things like 4 way games aren't "ideal" they are definitely more than fine by my standards. On my ls-32 however I find shmups to be excellent and everything else I want to rip my hair our. Fighters are close to unplayable for me, trying things like pacman is just brutal. It was really the first time I experienced the frustration people explain when trying to play 4-ways on an 8 way setup. Every other joystick before hand never game me grief. 

Build quality is a no brainer to the sanwa jlf. I've had those for probably 2 years now with heavy usage by me and all kinds of drunk people hammering away on them and they look brand new and function as brand new. The ls-32 on the other hand I've had since Halloween and its crumbling apart. This has only been used by me, the same way I play on the jlf. Everytime I open up the control panel of my candy cab with the ls-32 there are little bits of plastic from the actuator. This picture I just took now and I wiped down all the dust and stuff last weekend when I was working on it, so from about a weeks worth of play.



It's a bit hard to tell from the picture but there is a very clear ring starting to form on the actuator that I'm sure is just cutting deeper and deeper (I don't really find myself to be that hard on the joystick) and will need to be replaced at some point. I really do believe that it is poor quality.

[rCadeGaming]

Well, first off, you should never use the darker piece on an LS-32 when using the square restrictor shape.  You'll get very slight hang-ups on some of those notches, it will feel crumby, and could contribute to that rubbing/grinding you're seeing evidence of.  Just take it off and use just the light blue piece only for the square restrictor.

Agreed the JLF's build quality is far and away the best of any brand I've seen.  Not just in durability, but in dimensional consistency from stick to stick.  Happ's are pretty poor in this regard, with iL's being a bit better.  Not sure of Seimitsu vs. iL, but neither approaches the JLF.

One of the biggest advantages to a JLF is the unlevered microswitches.  The levers on normal microswitches can be bent to different degrees, throwing your engage zones out of whack.  They can be uneven from the factory, and also drift over time.  With a JLF you don't have to worry about "tuning" your switch levers.

Your preference for an "all-around stick" will differ depending on your favorite genres.  For me it would be fighters, shmups, and platformers, so I'm torn.  Despite its excellence for fighters, the stock JLF's long engage/throw just makes it too cumbersome for serious shmup play.  Platformers are good with a bit shorter engage/throw as well.  For me, the mod I came up with produce the best all-around stick possible.  Engage and throw are reduced significantly without affecting the inherent accuracy of the JLF that makes it good for fighters.  There's a slight learning curve to playing fighters with the short engage/throw, but after about 5 minutes of acclimation I didn't find it any more difficult.

Some numbers:

Code: [Select]

       | JLF  | LS-32 | LS-40/56 | LS-33  | Modded JLF
-------+------+-------+----------+--------+-----------
Engage | 6 mm | 5 mm  | 4   mm   | 3.5 mm | 3.25 mm
-------+------+-------+----------+--------+-----------
Throw  | 8 mm | 7 mm  | 7.5 mm   | 7   mm | 6.25 mm
So, if you don't want to mod, an LS-33 would be best for shmups, but probably not so great for fighters.

[shponglefan]

On my ls-32 however I find shmups to be excellent and everything else I want to rip my hair our. Fighters are close to unplayable for me, trying things like pacman is just brutal.

I'll agree that fighters aren't that good with an LS-32 and for Pacman, anything except a 4-way stick is doing it wrong (although the OP stated they have a 4-way).

But I've found that for genres like side-scrollers and beat-em-ups, an LS-32 is superior to a JLF.  I believe it's because the motions in those genres tend to be similar to shmups; lots of quick, precise back-and-forth movements.  So it translates better to those genres than a JLF.  At least that's been my experience.

The ls-32 on the other hand I've had since Halloween and its crumbling apart. This has only been used by me, the same way I play on the jlf. Everytime I open up the control panel of my candy cab with the ls-32 there are little bits of plastic from the actuator. This picture I just took now and I wiped down all the dust and stuff last weekend when I was working on it, so from about a weeks worth of play.

Admittedly I've had my LS-32 for less time, but I have yet to notice any issues with the plastic... hope it doens't become an issue in the future.

[brad808]

Well, first off, you should never use the darker piece on an LS-32 when using the square restrictor shape.  You'll get very slight hang-ups on some of those notches, it will feel crumby, and could contribute to that rubbing/grinding you're seeing evidence of.  Just take it off and use just the light blue piece only for the square restrictor.

I just double checked it and even though it doesn't appear to be rubbing anywhere, your right and it doesn't need to be on there for any other reason than to just know where the restrictor is in the event you want to change it in the future to 4/2 way so I pulled it off. I'm still sure the grinding is coming from the light blue square and the green actuator where there is a very noticable circle wearing in. In any event though when I'm complaining about it in another 6 months (providing I haven't gotten jlf's on by that time) and take a picture to show how deep the circle is then you won't be able to point it out 

Admittedly I've had my LS-32 for less time, but I have yet to notice any issues with the plastic... hope it doens't become an issue in the future.

I'm not sure how common it is really, I have another brand new ls-32 I was going to try and swap in just to make sure I didn't get a bum stick but I'm trying to avoid it so I can at least sell it as new/unused or trade it for a new jlf.

I did do a quick google search and found these last couple comments about ls-32 actuator
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=36980

For the lazy:
"The actuator wears quite quickly. Easy to replace. Stock up!"
"So it's just the actuator causing the "problem"? No reason to break a sweat then "
"Yup - you'll find a pile of shavings under the stick."

Sounds familiar to me.


Edit: Just to clarify I'm not saying anyone else that likes this stick is wrong, just that I dissagree. Everyone will have a stick they like and I get that.

[rCadeGaming]

LOL, I just said it could contribute to it.  Either way, that sucks.

Lubrication would probably help a lot.  I use molykote 44 light not only on the hemispherical pivot, but anywhere where there could be friction, including where actuator contacts both the restrictor and the microswitches.

[brad808]

So just out of complete curiosity I went down to my garage to pull out the original ls-32 the machine came with (from being on location somewhere, presumably with a lot more usage than what I've put on them in 6 months) just to see what the wear was like. The green actuator is in a slight hour glass shape but it seems like it wore down a lot smoother than mine. The part that wore badly on this one was the pivot, its basically gone 









OP sorry for semi-jacking your thread.

[rCadeGaming]

Looks like it was used for many years without ever being relubed!  That dark blue piece caused everything to wear to a funny shape too, being that the diagonals were more reinforced with the cardinals.

[Connorsdad]

Thanks for your input guys but after reading all your comments re joysticks I'm still none the wiser lol

Any other joysticks worth getting instead of jlf/ls32?

Also what gauge wire should I be looking for to connect to the power lines coming from the PSU.

[rCadeGaming]

Any other sticks worth getting?  In my opinion, no; and if by old-school-side-scrollers you mean 2d platformers, then we have pretty much the same preference in genre: fighters, shmups, and platformers. 

For a good compromise between these genres, try my mod for the JLF.  Or, if you don't want to mod, try an LS-32.