Bartop Plans (2 player) - Cramped controls? - Seeking build plans

[hydro38]

Hello everyone. I have gotten very excited about my first arcade cabinet build; I plan to convert an old laptop with a broken screen into a two player bartop system.

I have been doing a lot of searching and came across numerous pictures/builds/photos of great bartop systems. However, it seems that most of the two player control arcades are somewhat cramped. The buttons for player one seem too close to the joystick for player two. Is this an issue? I have yet to see a video of two people playing simultaneously.

I can't seem to find any actual plans with dimensions and instructions, just general dimensions and images.

Can someone point me somewhere that breaks down the most favored button layout for a multi-system setup with hyperspin? I believe I want 6 or 7 gaming buttons, as well as pinball buttons on the sides.

I was thinking of purchasing the Xarcade kit for the buttons/joysticks/controls.

Thank you. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[TheDude]

Hi Hydro38 !
I think the nature of bartops is such that a 2-player setup might not be the best one to apply to such a machine.
People here have chosen to widen the control panel, so that joysticks and buttons be a little farther from one another.

But I haven't ever seen a 2-player  bartop actually played, and in optimal playing condition, except perhaps if children would play.
Adults with wider builds would perhaps have a hard time.

There's this set of plans, if you're interested, on my forum :
http://bartopmania.com/index.php?t=msg&th=45&start=0&

You would perhaps find other info, such as a proper button layout for hyperspin, because there are top-notch bartops builders there, too, and as helpful as on this here great site.
Between the two sources, you'll be assured to find advice.

Xarcade kit... Well, is it because you don't know better, are short on cash or because they provide a full kit ? There are also better altenatives. I can say that because I chose to buy this same kit for my first bartop and ended up with much better accessories.
Look for RandyT, a member here, and site is groovygamegear.com. He's got VERY good stuff and prices are ok. Plus the guy is friendly and ships orders FAST !

[shadablade]

Ill second the remarks for groovygamegear. I just got my first order in from them (buttons, sticks, switches) its was packed very well and shipping was nicely quick. Im also working on a 2 player bartop, however im more retrofitting an old SNK PVGtech cab, so im a little bit more limited than you i think LoL.  I was going to get the Tankstick myself originally, and actually had it ordered, but that order got canceled due to the tanksticks being on backorder. I started doing a good bit of digging here and found that its a little more work to do it yourself, but you'll be more pleased with the results in the end   

[DaveMMR]

There are a few different ways you can handle two-player simo games on your bartop:

1) Deal with the occasional cramping. Depending on how wide it is, it may not be as bad as you think. (I think a real SFII panel was 24" wide, by the way). Test that out.
2) Build a standalone panel that plugs into the bartop for a second player.
3) Build two bartops that link. (A few people have done this - can't search right now, sorry. One had the second bartop as a 'dummy' machine, ie: it won't work by itself. Another one had two fully functional standalones that link. Of course, that doubles much of your work and expenses.)

Each solution depends on how much you're playing 2P games and what kind. If you're doing a lot of fighters, options 2 and 3 may be your best bet. For the occasional casual shooter or such, option 1 may suffice - option 2 if you want to support Player 2 but are only-the-lonely 99% of the time.

And this site has some good layout options: http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/introduction.html

[zallax]

I was in the midst of building a two player bar top and came to the same conclusion as many.  It was going to be too big to get the second player in comfortably.  So, I went with a mini cocktail.  Just check out my link below.  Co-op and PvP, no rubbing eblows, and very portable.

[BobA]

There is another way to deal with 2 players on a bartop.   Any bartop I make has only one player controls.  To play 2 players I always use a gamepad with the proper number of buttons so that the original control panel is never crowded.

[Unstupid]

Bartops are meant for 1 player....  If you build something wide enough for 2 people you may as well just build a full size cab because it'll have the same footprint!

[Dekieon]

For a Bartop, and two players, I would suggest focusing on those two player games where the players alternate at the controls, like pac-man, donkey kong, Mr. Do, Burgertime, etc.

[Drnick]

Having built a 2 Player Bartop at around 20" wide I can confirm "It gets a little bit cramped with a pair of fully grown people playing". 
If you are putting in a 27" widescreen or something you could probably get away with a 24" panel and this would be a lot better but its going to end up with a big footprint.  Now I have the bartop I want to do a full sized 2 player machine   

[Le Chuck]

Two player on a bartop can be fun but I'd limit the layout to four buttons in a diamond to maximize player space. 

[DaveMMR]

Actually Hydro38 asked the same question I would have been eventually asking since I'm looking into bartops now too (have to table the upright I was working on due to temporary living arrangements and space concerns.)

I was planning mine as a one-player but then I realized I wanted the second stick for Robotron and then it deveolved into "why not just throw a couple of extra buttons in there while you're at it?"

LeChuck I see you are redoing your panel on the Darkade as a 2-player, 4-button layout. How wide was your panel and how does playing with another simultaneoulsy work out on your machine?

[hydro38]

I appreciate the timely feedback.

I want to spend very little money on my first cabinet, $100 max. I will be purchasing materials and controller mechanisms, as I have a 17" LCD monitor and an old desktop computer or laptop available for the build.

The idea to build a cabinet started when I salvaged my old desktop computer parts for a spare computer. I constructed a wooden computer box for emulating gaming consoles with intentions to use it on the living room TV. I bought the USB snes controller adapters and mounted the computer components tightly together. I quickly discovered hyperspin and was then introduced to the idea of an arcade cabinet.

Now, I want a combination of the two, a small bartop style two player arcade cabinet that doubles as a home theater PC for console emulators and possibly low-end PC games. I want to use old console controllers on the big screen and/or play arcade games on the cabinet.

The video card I am using has two outputs, so I can switch between monitors if I leave the computer in the cabinet. However, I would ultimately like the PC to act as a cartridge, sliding out of the arcade cabinet after unplugging the necessary cables. This is why I may end up using my old laptop.

Does anyone use their machine like this?

I am surprised that more arcade cabinet designs do not incorporate usb ports or controller adapters in the front of the machine. I plan on having an area that opens up with a wired usb hub inside  for plugging in the adapters and feeding them through a hole.

[PL1]

I am surprised that more arcade cabinet designs do not incorporate usb ports or controller adapters in the front of the machine. I plan on having an area that opens up with a wired usb hub inside  for plugging in the adapters and feeding them through a hole.

Try searching for "Neutrik" or "NAUSB".



Scott

[Le Chuck]

LeChuck I see you are redoing your panel on the Darkade as a 2-player, 4-button layout. How wide was your panel and how does playing with another simultaneoulsy work out on your machine?

Darkade is about 17" wide if I recall. It's really small but that was the point of the build. That said its not bad with two players. I haven't had any complaints from guests. I just got tired of always having fewer buttons and explaining that it's "two player capable" not two player. Most users don't notice the difference as long as they get the p1 position. It'll get about an hour of continuos 2 player play at parties.  Id say it feels like playing gauntlet with all for positions filled. Cramped but fun.   The button change I'm doing will just even the playing field for both users.

[hydro38]

I have decided to either purchase an encoder, or hack one.

I would rather not spend the $40 on the I-PAC2.

I do not think Degenatrons USB Keyboard Encoder will be sufficient with 20 inputs. I will be using 8-way joysticks.

Can I use two of the Degenatrons USB Keyboard Encoders (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,120362.msg1276559.html#msg1276559)?

Depending on the price of two of the minimus AVRs, maybe I should just settle for an IPAC2?

[Unstupid]

I do not think Degenatrons USB Keyboard Encoder will be sufficient with 20 inputs. I will be using 8-way joysticks.

Just a FYI.... 8-way joysticks only use the same 4 inputs (up, down, left, right) as a 4-way joystick.  Only difference is 8-way sticks have the ability to hit 2 switches at the same time (eg... up AND right).

[hydro38]

Well, that is helpful. However, I still don't believe there is enough inputs.

10 for each player, 4 joystick and 6 buttons doesn't leave the minimum of 1 input to exit a game. I will be using hyperspin as the frontend.

Edit:
found the answer to my question by reading here:
https://sites.google.com/site/degenatrons/controller-interfaces/usb-keyboard-encoder/resources

There are extended keys that can be used by combing the up an down arrows, left and right, ect.

[PL1]

The new KADE firmware allows you to HWB for shifted functions the way that P1 Start does for the IPac.

You can use the 20 player inputs straight in and use HWB for admin functions like P1/P2 Coin, P1/P2 Start, Exit, etc.


Scott