ami-man's advice on Rowe Ami jukeboxes

[ami-man]

Hi All,
This my first time on any forum so please tell me if I go wrong,
I am English retired and living in Spain I have bought an AMI Cadette Jukebox Model CMM1 totally none working and have challenged myself to restore if to its former glory, as a Motor Mechanic in a previous life I have a knowledge of mechanics but not electronics but i am enjoying learning.
I have removed and tested the junction box and that is working fine with the correct voltage at each fuse when I manually enter credits it shorts out I have found it is a cable on the credit unit that has been repaired before with a bridge wire, facing the credit unit it is the third cable from the right (Brown) and leads to the three way switch on the Scan control after that I am lost, trying the credit price switches in all positions it still shorts out when the credit unit turns and the wipers make a connection.
Also is it possible to work the jukebox without the credit unit in by having the scan switch in the off position until I get another one.
I don't want to ask too much at once but would appreciate any help you can give.
Many thanks Dave

Hello Dave,

Welcome to the forum.

It might be an idea to contact me direct if you need a service switch, It should be the rotory/lever type on your jukebox. If you remove the plug that goes to your coin mechanism this will eliminate shorted out coin fingers that could be shorting out the credit unit, again we could supply you a credit unit to suit your jukebox, we would just need a picture of the connections to your credit unit being as there is more than one type used.

Just send me a personal message with your email address and we can take it from there.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[ami-man]

Thank you so much, Alan!  I was not prepared for how insanely complicated the mechanism is, and how vague the manual is (like a lot of professional workshop manuals, I know).  It assumes you know a lot about the technical names, locations, and functions of the components before you even open the book.  I'm slowly figuring out what/where things are by staring at the drawings, and then poking around the machine.

It does seem logical that an electrical component between the search unit and the record magazine has suddenly dropped out, but since it was working before, and I didn't really "do anything" except take it the whole thing out, and then put it back into the cabinet, I was having trouble figuring out where to even start.  So thanks for the suggestions.  Also, in going back and thinking about what I touched in the process, I remembered that I did absentmindedly reconnect the main connector to the search unit with the power on, and heard what sounded like relays fire.  Was that potentially damaging to something?  Really appreciate your help, Alan!  As technicians seem to be disappearing from Earth, the AMI Rowe community is very lucky to have you around.

Hi Dan,

you should always switch the service switch to off before removing any plugs, You may have blown a fuse or tripped a breaker in the power supply (called a junction box in the manual).

The plug on the side of the search unit (on the earlier jukeboxes it was mounted on the top of the search unit PCB) this plastic molex plug does allow for some movement up and down on the PCB, you need to check that the connection pins are fully in line with the tracks on the PCB. Also look on the tracks on the PCB to make sure that none of the tracks from the connectors have and cracks in the PCB.

Please let us know how you get on.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[Daveorr]

Hi Alan,
Thanks for your reply I was interested to read your advice to Dan this could also be of help to me, I wish I had known you were able to supply parts I have already ordered a credit unit from ebay but at the moment it seems to have gone astray but I will know better in future, one thing I am missing is probably the most important item The Needle so if I can email you to order one that would be good so if you can let me know how I find your email address.
I have disconnected the plug from the coin mechanism but still every time I move the service switch to ON it shorts but the Scan will turn the magazine do you think it could be the rotary switch? if so I will send photo to order.
With the switch in the off position should this give free play?.
Also I am never able to get power at the selector buttons but I presume this is because the credit unit needs to do that is it possible to bypass that?.
This is certainly keeping me out of the local Spanish Bar.
Many Thanks
Dave

[ami-man]

Hi Dave,

I have sent you a PM.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[wise1]

I have a very similar problem with MM3 scan, the mech will do all the right things to play a record but when there are no more selections to play, the scan wheel keeps turning and wont stop.
what switch or contact tells the scan to stop when there are no more selections to play? this is a work in progress. the gearing was out of sync  and needle and random cartridge wrong way round.
one problem at a time. The mech is in very good condition for its age. the amp is probably rooted though. when I turn the juke on the scan wheel keeps turning.

Richard

Sorry for the delay, inspection found a long 75mm broken plastic that seems to be operated from the scan wheel ( the small plastic wheel that tensions a spring around its self ) I assume that when fully loaded this will move the  long plastic bit  down and hit the stop switch. I still have to pull it apart but looks like it might have been glued at some time.
I will let you know once I have a better look at it.

Cheers,
 Richard

[RollingStone]

hey ami-man, hello to the others,

anybody have an idea if the cd100tomp3 adapter works for the "normal" rowe/ami cd 100, too? cdadapter.com says, it includes support for CD100A through CD100E and any other jukebox with the 408322xx control unit.
is the "normal" cd 100 based on the 408322xx CCC?

thank you!

[ami-man]

Hi RollingStone,

Sorry you did not leave a name.

If memory serves me correctly the program chip needs to be a 3.00 or above.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[RollingStone]

Hi RollingStone,

Sorry you did not leave a name.

If memory serves me correctly the program chip needs to be a 3.00 or above.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

hey,

okay. an the cd100 isn't 3.00 or above?


when i read this, it looks like its working:
http://kellykeeton.com/2014/05/01/rowe-ami-cd-100-jukebox/

although he writes its a "CD100A", i think its a "normal" CD100.

the"real" CD100A should have only two silver horizontal ledges on the bottom in front of the speakers, like here:
http://auctionimages.s3.amazonaws.com/78527/62520/52122418.jpg

the "normal" CD100 has three ledges.

you know what i mean?

greetings
phil

[jdemarti]

You have to check the Eprom version on your Central Control Computer.  On the top, left part of the CCC is an opening in the case exposing the Eprom.  On the chip should be a label that indicates the version that is programmed in it.

[RollingStone]

You have to check the Eprom version on your Central Control Computer.  On the top, left part of the CCC is an opening in the case exposing the Eprom.  On the chip should be a label that indicates the version that is programmed in it.

thank you very much! i'll have a look at this.

[RollingStone]

hey all,

got two old cd 100s. :-)
eprom v 2.1 and v 2.5.

anyone who would sell a newer eprom version to me?

....
i attached two pictures from one box. can you tell me whats the function of these units are?

think the first is a official ami/rowe update kit, which can be used for leveling the autoplay volume different to the user-selected song volume?

the second can be connected via cable to the "service" slot at the power supply. is this a component for printer connection?

thank you! phil

[lilshawn]

i think you are right on both accounts.

there is a background music kit (like for playing radio or other sound source when not playing CD's). this would allow you to adjust the volume of the inputs to match.

the other does look like the serial printer connection.

as for your ROM, i'm not sure... I think some country have different ROM data and need to be programmed for instance, so the coin currency gets counted correctly...but i'm not sure. someone here may be able to upload the data here if you can find someone locally to you to reprogram the chip.

[ami-man]

Hello Phil,

The control you have there for controlling background music was made by Mam in Play in the UK when they had the distributorship of Rowe Ami in the late 80's early 90's.

The Rowe Ami Background Music Volume Control Kit part number 21639701 with board number 40797001 was similar to the Mam unit but featured two relays.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[RollingStone]

thanks to you.

i found several people who would sell the suitable eprom chip with the updated CCC 40832220 to me. one even with the latest CCC 40832225. so i guess this problem will be fixed within a short time.
----

for which purpose has the printer connection been used?

anyone have an idea where i can get a (wiring) manual for the MAM background music kit?

[ami-man]

Hi Phil,

The printer port with no doubt be a serial port used at some time for collectors downloads when it was sited on location, we never got into that area when we operated machines, we just rented them.

I think it will be very unlikely that you will find information for the MAM background volume control, they used to incorporate it with a microphone interface as well, I do not have any of their drawings at all.

I do have some of their microphone units and I have the full Rowe Ami background kit (new old stock, complete) with a ream of instructions.

If your CCC has the smaller program chip and the dill socket has no extra pins (there are four extra pins on the later program chips) then you would have to replace the dill socket.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[RollingStone]

The printer port with no doubt be a serial port used at some time for collectors downloads when it was sited on location, we never got into that area when we operated machines, we just rented them.

I think it will be very unlikely that you will find information for the MAM background volume control, they used to incorporate it with a microphone interface as well, I do not have any of their drawings at all.

I do have some of their microphone units and I have the full Rowe Ami background kit (new old stock, complete) with a ream of instructions.

If your CCC has the smaller program chip and the dill socket has no extra pins (there are four extra pins on the later program chips) then you would have to replace the dill socket.

hi!

thank you.

yes, i'm currently having three 40832201 CCCs with only 28 pin eprom socket.
in fact i have such particular 32-pin IC-sockets but one said that there can occur problems if i only replace the socket.
i read about some transistors and capacities that should be changed as well.

so, i will get a original 40832220/-25 and hope it will run well.

phil

[bbmal]

Hi,
I recently purchased a Rowe Ami Cadette CMM1.
It was in use but never maintained by the prvious owner for 20 years but following advice from lurking on this forum I purchased a proper manual and sparingly lubricated relevant locations and the jukebox has been working fine.
However I recently turned it on and everything is functioning except no sound, so I referred to the manual and it refers to a stereo amplifier but my cadette is an Australian model which is fitted with the R2255A mono amp, which is not in the manual I purchased?
On the front of the amp it says to use R-2253A pre amp and L-5771A driver cards only, but a look inside reveals a R-2254 pre amp and a L-5772 driver.
I have a reasonable electronics knowledge but without the correct schematics I am flying blind, do I need to purchase a different manual to find these?
Given the age of this juke should I be replacing the caps etc anyway in this amp while I am at it?
Is there something else I should be checking before blaming the amp maybe?

any help appreciated
Mal

[ami-man]

Hi Mal,

Welcome to the forum, from your right up I assume that you are in Australia? If so can you edit your profile to reflect what country you reside in. This information helps with where to advise you where to get spare parts or help.

The amplifier you have in your jukebox is the Mono Amplifier and the board numbers that you say are in it are correct.

Sorry but even I do not have a schematic for this amplifier.

I do not advice just changing caps for the sake of it, inspect them and to be honest there is not many in this amplifier chassis.

I would however check out the larger wattage resistors for their values. Check out the power rails most Rowe Ami are +35 volts DC and -35 volts.

Your main issue will the driver board that will have signs of overheating on the paxalin board, most I have seen have had solder flowed on all of the tracks.

My advice would be to look for a replacement amplifier such as the 64 watt R2179A (601-02179 USA number) this stereo amplifier would be more or less a straight replacement with regards to its connections and a far better amplifier.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[bbmal]

Alan,
Thanks for your reply. I had set my location in my profile, not sure why it is not showing up, but yes I am in Australia.
The amplifier you mentioned as a replacement R2179A - is it 240 volt?
That is the other problem I face being in Australia, that I need to source a 240 volt amp, although the original manual refers to everything being 110 volt.
I thought that may be difficult which is why I was going down the track of a repair.
I might investigate replacement options but I may just have to start drawing out the schematic by hand?
I will check the areas you suggested when time permits, but it might not be for several days.
Thanks again
Mal

[ami-man]

Hello Mal,

Most if not all jukebox amplifiers are 110 to 117 volts AC be they be Rowe Ami, Rock Ola or Seeburg.

The amplifier takes its power supply from the jukebox power supply (junction box).

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[RollingStone]

so, i got one cd-100 running!

there is currently only one problem left and that's the keyboard.
i can draw on two various keyboards, one has a broken "0" key and the other a broken "popular". but in general both keyboards run very cumbersome. Mostly i have to enter the same key many times before it's signal gets sent to the CCC.

i fixed the "0" key problem a little bit via soldering one solder point from the "0" key a little wider to the circuit line. but it's difficult.

phil

[Zeosstud]

Hi, I have aquired an R91 that has an issue.  It plays about 75% of a song, then starts to skip, if you put a little pressure on it, song will finish, next one loads up and same thing.  Any thoughts on that. Please excuse me if this has been answered 100 times, I just started looking. TY

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

[lilshawn]

for start, make sure the tone arm pivot points are nice and clean and the arm can move freely. make sure the wires aren't holding it back. make sure your needle is set proper. (some where modified with cartridges that have needles that flip to accommodate 78's and 45's)

as a last resort, on the tone arm it should have an adjustment at the end where it pivots to adjust the cartridge pressure. you are going to want to nudge that a 1/4 turn at a time until it tracks properly.

usually cleaning and properly lubing seems to fix tracking issues 90% of the time though.

[geduk]

R86 problems

Hi guys would love a hint/ help  where to look!

I have been having a problem with my R86 for a while now it would not play my selections when keyed in unless I powered down the machine then restarted then it would start playing the previously made selections (this tells me that the selection part is working and its remembering what I input to play )   interestingly after the machine warmed up it would let me make new selections without a power reset

then on my most resent use of the machine it didn't seam to want to let me make new selections without a reset and

then the turn table started stop starting while playing the record

the above two problems may or may not be related and im guessing it a ccc problem having looked at the mech board as its got very little and isolated circuit to make the turntable turn 

any hits/help would be helpful

thanks

Ged

[ami-man]

Hello Ged,

I see that you are in the UK.

I suggest that you get in contact with me regarding the testing/repair of your boards.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

alan-hood@datex.co.uk
0114 247 0242

[prb113]

Hello all,

We have a Rowe TI-2 that my wife inherited from her father. It has worked well and sounded great for years until this week. When the unit is powered on, the turntable keeps rotating. The reset button does not work to stop it and move to the next selection.   

I have the TI-2 repair manual, but this issue is not covered in troubleshooting, so I thought I'd post here before guessing about where to start. I searched through this thread, but did not see anyone posting about this exact issue.

Thanks,
Phil
Madison, WI, USA

[ami-man]

Hi Phil,

Is a record on the turntable or are you saying that the turntable keeps revolving? and if the former is correct that pressing the reject button (record cancel) does not reject the record.

If the above is true then I would check that none of the circuit breakers have tripped on the power supply (junction box) It would be the 30 volts DC that may have tripped.

If you have both 30 volts DC & 30 volts AC at the power supply, then check to make sure that these voltages are present at the service switch and at the mechanism.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[prb113]

Alan,

It was a circuit breaker. I'll keep an eye on it and see if it is a symptom of something else or just a one time thing.

You sure saved me a lot of time, as I never even thought about checking internal circuit breakers. It is much appreciated!

Best Regards,
Phil

[Sabian]

I have a R-85 that worked perfect until I had unplugged it for at least a year. When I turned it back on, the magazine won't turn and the display just shows 100 without changing when you enter a selection number. It turns freely when you press the lever, also sounds like it's getting power because I hear a hum when you press the scan and cancel push button on the turntable during service mode. Also the mag light is on when the service switch is set to on, any help would be appreciated....thanks! 

[tarascon]

HELLO my name is matias from Argentina
i buy a juckelbox cd100c but y have prblems whit the sound, listening little
the machine work, but the sound its to slow and bad, so y chek potency and have fusses burned, y change, but when plug burn again,
 can change the fuses , and disconnect everything and go turn on the machine by plugging  one by one to see whwere is the breakdown voltage?  or its a bad idea turn on and plug
can anybody helpme
what I must look?
regards

[lilshawn]

if amplifier fuses you are talking about (8A on back side of amplifier.) the transistors need to be replace. they are no good and causing fuse to burn. you can buy a kit to replace them all. like so:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROWE-AMI-JUKEBOX-AMPLIFIER-REPAIR-VINYL-MODELS-R74-TO-R94-CD-CD-100A-TO-H-/321161971887

or buy the transistor from local shop and replace them. There are 2 of the 2N6287 transistors and 2 of the 2N6284 transistors type. they must not be mixed up when replace.

[tarascon]

hello ami man
matias from argentina
i have a rowe cd100c serial 90495
i have problem with amp the fusse burn, change and burn, the jukebox sound slow
my question is whether one of the legs of the transistors has to continue with the same housing(mother)?

[lilshawn]

no, the transistor case must be isolated from the housing. (big metal heatsink)

the transistor has a clear insulator under it to keep it from touching. (called "mica") if the insulator damaged or missing then the transistor case touching the metal and cause short.

look like this:

http://www.mecint.co.uk/Item/107

they allow the transistor to not overheat, but also not touch the metal.


the transistors in your amp are bad and will need to be replaced. the fuses protect other circuit from damage when transistor goes bad.

usually wrong external speaker connection or short on the amp output cause transistor damage like this. they are very sensitive to how speakers are connected. too many or wrong connection will cause damage.

when replacing transistor you must also make sure to remove and replace mica insulator or new transistor damaged also.

[toptimmy13]

Hi,

I recently found a ROWE AMI Model CTI-1 at a garage sale for $50.  Don't know if this is a worthwhile project and am new to this. 

Everything seems to work fine except this:  the motor seems to switch back and forth between 33 and 45 speeds. I think anyway.  It works fine for a while, then slows down in speed. 

Any advice?

Tim

[ami-man]

Hello Tim,

Welcome to the forum.

The Rowe Ami CTI-1 Crestwood was produced in 1974.

Do you have a mixture of dinked and undinked  (large and small hole) records on the jukebox?
If you have this is why it is playing at 33.3 (small hole records) 45 for dinked records, to defeat this on the lefthand side of the mechanism (looking at the front of the jukebox) you will see the Speed Shift solenoid (202-11505), if you remove one of the spade connections from this solenoid it will not left the idler wheel linkage up & down on the turntable motor shaft.

The way it will now work is to play dinked & undinked records at 45 rpm.
If the record has a small hole in it it will activate the trip wire in the turntable hub, this wire activates the micro switch and the hub solenoid drops out so the record can sit on the rubber mat.
A record with the larger dinked hole just goes over the raised hub, the trip wire does not operate and the hub solenoid remains energized.

I hope the above helps you.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[supermandamnfool]

Hello, this is my only hope. I've got a rowe AMI TI-1 Monte Carlo. After problems with keys I had to drill out the locks. The cabinet door opened 2 times afterwards easily with a screwdriver. I haven't been able to get it open since the last time I closed it. I've searched the manual but there's no section that covers the locks. How can I get this thing open again so i can fix the lock? Thanks.

[ami-man]

You can open it by using wedges and screwdrivers between the top  (title glass door) and lower front door.

T objective is to see the arrowhead catches so you can slide them across one at a time with a screwdriver.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[youngfoot]

Hi Alan - you helped me with the lighting on my R86 a few years ago and now I'm back asking for more help!

Currently unable to play anything on my R86. When I pour on the unit all lighting comes on and on the front control panel only the 'make selection' light is on with now numerals showing. on the CCC 'record number' and 'times selected' are showing 0 and the '8 VDC' lamp is lit.

if i press reset on the front panel the numerals show '100'.

if i make a selection the number is shown but nothing else happens - no action from the carousel mechanism or turntable.

if I press and hold the reset button on the back of the unit (next to vol control) the carousel turns. when I release the reset button the carousel stops immediately. The same thing happens when I press and hold the 'scan and cancel' button by the turntable.

any thoughts?

regards
Bob

[ami-man]

Hello Bob,

What you describe only happens when the service switch is in the service position.
Make sure that the service switch is turned to ON.

If it is in the one position them my guess is that the switch is faulty and you require another one.

Regards
Alan

Alan Hood
ami-man
UK

[dkazz1]

Hello and greetings

I have a Rowe/AMI Storm Jukebox that is working fine, however all of the sudden all of the florescent lighting went out on it (neon is still lit up fine)

I'm guessing there is some sort of starter ballast that went out on it?

Any source for that or can you send me a picture of the part needed to be replaced?

Thanks

Dan