OpenJamma board - interest?

[DaveMMR]

I, too, would Kickstarter $100 for a plug-and-play board if that included shipping.

Ditto.

[1500points]

you know, i would do a $100 kickstarter, too, IF....

I still don't really understand your full design intention of this board, but if you are saying it is plug n play with an easty -->>user defined version of mame<<-- and any romsets compatible with said version of mame...

then my "If" is a YES.

[404]

I'd be in for 3 when this materializes and I can read a review or two. If it's decent for 90's 2d fighters I'm all over it.

To get back on topic, Shanghaiguide, are you still looking at at August beta release?

I'm hoping for something close to that, but looks like its going to slide a bit.  May be ok though.
I got the first PCB design back from our design house, and I'm not so happy, they really didn't do <expletive deleted> yet.
Going to have to do a bit more work than I really wanted too myself with them so that "yeah yeah no problem" (aka mei wenti) turns into actual board layout, sigh.  If i really wanted to do it myself, I wouldn't have paid them to do it. 

 

Tis the nature of things though, and I should have expected life to indeed be interesting as that proverb goes

I sent off the news of the device to some friends of mine that run gaming sites. I can also arrange reviews of any proto or finished units.

I haven't heard 'mei wenti' in a while. Everyone in the far east uses that as the common runaround phrase.

[Malenko]

I sent off the news of the device to some friends of mine that run gaming sites. I can also arrange reviews of any proto or finished units.

I'd be down to test, honestly I want something that can emulate Galaga better than the 60 in 1 I have in my Galaga, so my expectations are low haha. I would be more than happy to cover shipping and things of that nature.

[404]

I sent off the news of the device to some friends of mine that run gaming sites. I can also arrange reviews of any proto or finished units.

I'd be down to test, honestly I want something that can emulate Galaga better than the 60 in 1 I have in my Galaga, so my expectations are low haha. I would be more than happy to cover shipping and things of that nature.

It's not up to me at all, I'm just offering to contact a few sites on behalf of the project. Pretty sure the second point of a review is to garner some attention outside of this website for the product though.

[shanghaiguide]

Once I have a working PCB, I can start on shipping some test units out to interested parties.

404 is on my list of quite probably getting a test unit for dev purposes, as the more dev types the better.

I spent the whole afternoon - early evening today sitting with the PCB layout guys -  7hrs solid!
We're getting closer to being able to layout the pcb. 
I need to run some of the electrical stuff i'm not so sure on with someone who's more conversant in electronics than I am, will do so in the next day or so, and also double check the pinouts again.  Then once again. Then once again again.

Then it can go to layout, and then we can make a test board or three. (And hope to heck that the first board works hehe).

[404]

Once I have a working PCB, I can start on shipping some test units out to interested parties.

404 is on my list of quite probably getting a test unit for dev purposes, as the more dev types the better.

I'd be more than happy to test it out.  Just keep in mind, I don't have a cabinet to test it in. I will probably have it running via a test rig/supergun style setup in the meantime.

In the very least, i'd like to dig into the unit to see how far i can get at porting an sdl game or two and possibly doing to setup tutorials. 

[shanghaiguide]

As we're busy on the PCB side these days, I had a thought - should I add a scanline circuit to the VGA output?

Would make it switchable of course - does anyone think its a good idea?
(Doesn't add much cost to the board).

[sharpfork]

Yes, add it.

SIII + Cyanogen + Tapatalk 2

[sandheaver]

As we're busy on the PCB side these days, I had a thought - should I add a scanline circuit to the VGA output?

Would make it switchable of course - does anyone think its a good idea?
(Doesn't add much cost to the board).

Beware feature creep...  but yes, scanlines would be nice.

[DaveMMR]

As we're busy on the PCB side these days, I had a thought - should I add a scanline circuit to the VGA output?

Would make it switchable of course - does anyone think its a good idea?
(Doesn't add much cost to the board).

Yes, please!

[shanghaiguide]

As we're busy on the PCB side these days, I had a thought - should I add a scanline circuit to the VGA output?

Would make it switchable of course - does anyone think its a good idea?
(Doesn't add much cost to the board).

Beware feature creep...  but yes, scanlines would be nice.

Honestly, I'm more concerned about i/o usage on the SoC than board space at the moment, as more layers == $$$$. 
The VGA circuit additions dont affect layer count - the SoC usage dictates that, more-so as its BGA mount (with a high pin* count too!) rather than SMT, and all the pins are behind others.

Trying to keep it down to 4 layer. If it hits 6 layer, pricing increments, but not in a good way 

This is why I need to be smart with the board layout and pin usage.  If i spend the time to do it right, I get to reap the rewards (less layers = less cost).
When I finish this round of changes, its mostly done though, but then it goes to the EE (electrical engineer) to check, then make any necessary changes, then back to me to confirm, and then to board layout.

Then I need to wait a week or two while they do the gerber files for the board layout, then we make 1-5, populate and I see where it all went wrong (or right!).
Thats another 2-3 weeks or so after design is finalized, so we're about 1 1/2 - 2 months away from prototypes at the moment assuming I'm happy. 
(and I'm never happy, as I'm a picky control freakazoid who needs to know everything  )

------
*Yes BGA = Ball Grid Array, but if I say balls vs pins, its all  hahahaha.

[RetroBorg]

Keep it simple, keep it cheap and you'll have a winner!

Make some money on this and then you can get all creative on some deluxe board later.

[Slydsho]

Keep it simple, keep it cheap and you'll have a winner!

Make some money on this and then you can get all creative on some deluxe board later.

i agree.

when this goes kickstarter, i'm in.

[Busterlowe]

Would there be area to add daughter boards? I echo what others have said, analog inputs would be great.

I'm up for testing the unit as well, if interested.

Good luck! I hope you can pull this off!

[launton]

Exactly what I'm after.  Bring it on!   

[sandheaver]

I still think you'd be better starting from an already open platform like the new BeagleBone Black.  It has a lot of the same specs as what you're aiming for, and it's already made, prototyped, tested, and released.

You could more easily create a cape (what the beagleboard people call an add-on card) that has most or all of the interfaces you want on the openJAMMA board, and the main board with CPU & GPU is already done for you, and for far less money than it would cost you to design, prototype, and build it.

Given the $45 price tag for this, you could sell a cape that sat on top and still meet your $100 goal for the solution, in total.

Also, there are already VGA capes for this guy, so there's one less thing for you to worry about.

Maybe you're too far in to change direction now, but I would encourage any future embedded JAMMA designers reading this to consider this type of a solution (an IO board for an existing platform) in the future.  It's much less work, much less risk, much less cost, and much more easily supported.

The CubieBoard is similar and even has SATA, if you really need that.

My $0.02.

[sharpfork]

I agree about the beaglebone black or cubie and capes.  Make one for CGA Jamma, a different one for VGA jamma, and a different one for VGA with wire terminals.

I've been pondering  something like that as a KADE project but the hardware with decent I/O is not quite fast enough to emulate n64 and ps1 well.  The fast boards like the odroid don't have enough I/O.  Playing with the Ouya might tide me over if a big community grows around it and I can get my HDMI to VGA converter working.  I'll pick up an openjamma board too.


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[sandheaver]

The fast boards like the odroid don't have enough I/O.

the ODROID-X2, even?  I thought it had 50 pins of I/O..  I could be wrong, I read that page a long time ago, and I'm not going to re-read it now, just to deny someone the opportunity to tell me I'm wrong.  People seem to enjoy that, and who am I to rob someone of their joy?   

The ODROID-X2 has enough I/O.  You could make an add-on card for this board and do what you wanted.  This platform is nice because it has a quad-core CPU.  Clever software authoring could use a whole core for MAME and nothing else.  I don't believe MAME supports multiple cores yet, does it?

You only need a few I/O pins if you use them to drive an extender or something like that.  use an I²C bus to drive an I/O extender and handle the I/O from there.  Arcade monitors need a 5V signal (if we're being strictly pure to spec; late model CRTs handle 1v just fine) so you'll need an amplifier or you'll need to require a video amp be used as a separate component if needed.  Not sure what voltage the speaker would need to be.

Trick would be to get video onto the I²C bus in the first place.  Software rendering could do that easily enough, I suppose.

It could be done, and while I²C might not be the bus of choice, making expansion boards would be a whole lot easier than building the entire thing, base platform and all, from scratch.

[sharpfork]

the ODROID-X2, even?

It's $135.00 + shipping, different class of product.  The BeagleBone Black and Cubie are ~ $50.

[yotsuya]

Just gimme a $100 JAMMA board I can play games with, with a front end I can tweak to my content and I'll be happy, Shanghaiguide.

[sandheaver]

the ODROID-X2, even?

It's $135.00 + shipping, different class of product.  The BeagleBone Black and Cubie are ~ $50.

No argument, there.

[sandheaver]

Just gimme a $100 JAMMA board I can play games with, with a front end I can tweak to my content and I'll be happy, Shanghaiguide.

This is my point.  You'd have had it by now if it were just an I/O board for an existing platform.  SO MUCH EASIER.

[yotsuya]

Why stifle creativity?

[sandheaver]

Why stifle creativity?

Well, I'm not trying to; I believe in creativity, but I also believe in practicality.  shanhaiguide wants to duplicate effort, create an open ARM board when several already exist, and that is just wasted time to me.  Our time on Earth is limited; use it creatively, yes, but use it practically where you can.  Why spend a year creating something like the BeagleBone Black when the BeagleBone Black exists today and costs a measly $45?

Here's something to get creative thinking about: BY HERSELF, Jeri Ellsworth created the first C64 SoC (System on a Chip) in 2004 2002.  She was 30 28, and had almost no formal electrical engineering training, nor chip design training.  She thought "ok, I can probably figure this out," then figured it out in 4 months or something ridiculous like that.

If shanghaiguide wants to create a custom-built chip for this, then I would be well & truly on board with that, because that hasn't been done, at least not in an open source manner.  One could get truly creative with that kind of ambition.

[404]

Here's a great idea. Let's let shanghaiguide make whatever he wants. If you don't like it, then you don't have to buy it.

Everything works out in the end.

[wesbrown18]

Hey, guys --

Don't be naive about the economics of building and producing a system.

While shanghaiguide could use any of these existing platforms, this means that he's tying his fate to the pricing of these existing platforms.   It is very, very cheap in China to build a SoC system.  The expensive part is the actual design and design testing.

Once he has a design that he's happy with, he can leverage the economies of scale in China to manufacture the OpenJAMMA board for far cheaper than he would if he had a cape.  In the end, he would have far more margin per OpenJAMMA board sold -- it's a return on the amount of work he's invested.

An integrated OpenJAMMA platform is far more salable than an add-on to an existing SoC platform such as the BeagleBone -- people want to buy integrated components in a box, that they can plug into their arcade machines..  While shanghaiguide is not going to bundle MAME, it's just as easy for someone else to make a firmware image that includes MAME.

[stan2323]

Here's a great idea. Let's let shanghaiguide make whatever he wants. If you don't like it, then you don't have to buy it.

Everything works out in the end.

I second this.

Stan

[sandheaver]

Here's a great idea. Let's let shanghaiguide make whatever he wants. If you don't like it, then you don't have to buy it.

I don't know what to think of you assuming that I meant something else. 

Everything works out in the end.

Not favorably.

I encourage anyone and everyone capable to build a board from scratch and prove me wrong though.  But if anyone does, I'll be very surprised indeed.  Most folks with the talent to build a board from scratch would know not to given what's already on the market.

PROVE ME WRONG by getting the product to market successfully. 

[sharpfork]

I'm not really looking to argue with folks in this thread.  OpenJamma is going to be built however shanghaiguide wants to build it.
I was a part of bringing this thread off topic and think we need to bring the discussion back to OpenJamma features more than alternatives for the implementation.

I do have a question specific to OpenJamma, is it going to be open software/ open hardware, or both?



SIII + Cyanogen + Tapatalk 2

[sandheaver]

I'm not really looking to argue with folks in this thread.  OpenJamma is going to be built however shanghaiguide wants to build it.
I was a part of bringing this thread off topic and think we need to bring the discussion back to OpenJamma features more than alternatives for the implementation.

I do have a question specific to OpenJamma, is it going to be open software/ open hardware, or both?

I'm not really arguing.  If you think I am then I AM misspeaking, but I'm certainly not posting here with the intent to tell anyone they're wrong, and certainly not to discourage the OP from following his desires to create a board.  Re-reading, I can see how that would appear otherwise, but I was only attempting to provide another viewpoint, one which I think is an alternate, yet valid viewpoint.

In truth I hope Shanghaiguide makes the board and sells millions of them, and becomes rich.  I value being wrong far more than I do being right, as I learn a lot more when I'm wrong.  All I get when I'm right is a lot of people that wish they didn't know me and/or that I'd shut up.

[nagamitsu]

I'm just looking for a board that will plug right into my Jamma harness and allow for ROMS on SD card or similar storage to be run. OpenJamma board seems to be exactly what I need. Had considered the multi-game boards, but I think the OpenJamma board will suit my needs much better. 

[1500points]

I'm just looking for a board that will plug right into my Jamma harness and allow for ROMS on SD card or similar storage to be run. OpenJamma board seems to be exactly what I need. Had considered the multi-game boards, but I think the OpenJamma board will suit my needs much better. 

Yep, I think that is exactly what most of us non-developers in the crowd are hoping it becomes.
I'd love to be able to upgrade to this item, from a family member's 60-1 PCB that his kid's play.  MAME is too complex for their needs. and other multi-boards are limited in one way or another.  many of the obscure games are more kid friendly or entertaining than the top 40 classics we all know.

[sandheaver]

I'm just looking for a board that will plug right into my Jamma harness and allow for ROMS on SD card or similar storage to be run. OpenJamma board seems to be exactly what I need. Had considered the multi-game boards, but I think the OpenJamma board will suit my needs much better. 

Same.  I just want it yesterday

[sandheaver]

I do have a question specific to OpenJamma, is it going to be open software/ open hardware, or both?

Oh to answer that question, the software he's mentioned so far is already open, so I think we're golden, there.

[404]

Here's a great idea. Let's let shanghaiguide make whatever he wants. If you don't like it, then you don't have to buy it.

I don't know what to think of you assuming that I meant something else. 

Everything works out in the end.

Not favorably.

I encourage anyone and everyone capable to build a board from scratch and prove me wrong though.  But if anyone does, I'll be very surprised indeed.  Most folks with the talent to build a board from scratch would know not to given what's already on the market.

PROVE ME WRONG by getting the product to market successfully.

You're assuming I was talking about you specifically.

[sandheaver]

You're assuming I was talking about you specifically.

true enough.

[nagamitsu]

Same.  I just want it yesterday

I can't wait either. Not planning to invest in another board. I may try to find a cheap original PCB just for testing/use for now, but for now my cocktail system "restoration" being almost complete, it just needs to be powered up. 

[Rigby]

any update?  i was lurking here quite happily until i noticed there haven't been any updates for a while.

[yotsuya]

any update?  i was lurking here quite happily until i noticed there haven't been any updates for a while.

Shouldn't you be cleaning the park?